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It Belongs to a Museum

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Arathnorn said:
[X] [LEVER] Prestige

I'm voting for this for one simple reason: I want to make a museum so good that academics from as many nations as possible come visit. I want high elf archmages and drucchi corsairs and tomb king liches and brettonian nobles to all be observing our exhibit on early dwarven stonework, all pretending they dont see each other or notice that the attemdant is an undead pirate goon. This is my vision, and I'll do anything that advances it.
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Yeah. This, right here, is a big part of the picture for me too.

If we choose Prestige, and a course of actions like it that build the Museum's international connections there's a good chance that the Vampire Coast eventually goes from "those undead pirates" to "Well... yeah, the state technically encourages piratical action against its enemies, but really, who doesn't?"

The opening blurb outright talks about the role prestige serves as a source of legitimacy and the role of the museum in that. Drawing international attention and collaboration seems like a good way to start down that road.

I want to see a world where the undead pirates, their identity-shattered vampire overlord, and their friendly neighborhood liche priest who will not stop spreading things are just... "one of the guys" to the world's international politics. Acknowledged and shrugged off as just being Like That, while still being fully themselves. It sounds hilarious. And also poignant to some of the themes I like in Boney's writing, on a more serious level.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Yeah. This, right here, is a big part of the picture for me too.

If we choose Prestige, and a course of actions like it that build the Museum's international connections there's a good chance that the Vampire Coast eventually goes from "those undead pirates" to "Well... yeah, the state technically encourages piratical action against its enemies, but really, who doesn't?"

The opening blurb outright talks about the role prestige serves as a source of legitimacy and the role of the museum in that. Drawing international attention and collaboration seems like a good way to start down that road.

I want to see a world where the undead pirates, their identity-shattered vampire overlord, and their friendly neighborhood liche priest who will not stop spreading things are just... "one of the guys" to the world's international politics. Acknowledged and shrugged off as just being Like That, while still being fully themselves. It sounds hilarious. And also poignant to some of the themes I like in Boney's writing, on a more serious level.
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I meant to be fair I'm taking this as our guiding principle, when it comes to this princess, rather than us, deciding our overall vision
 
okay I don't really care about the prestige vs grief vote, eithers fine, but I'm here to stump for ranged armory because guns in all their forms are really really interesting, early modern guns are even more interesting, and pirate guns that can shoot under water are TRIPLE interesting.
 
daedalus725 said:
I meant to be fair I'm taking this as our guiding principle, when it comes to this princess, rather than us, deciding our overall vision
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The thing is, the more this vote strikes me a choice between which broad arc we aim to start down.

This is likely the only chance to go down the necromancy tutelage arc with this character, but it also goes the other way. Fallenstar might eventually become a different sort of contact in the form of the Necromancer Pirate Princess and her Wraith Husband but she's not likely to be as strong a key to Ulthuan and it's politics if she does.

Other arcs in this list might be possible later, but there's no guarantee they'll come up again, and the events of one may outright block another.

As the saying goes: If you want to be the tutor of necromancy, vote to be the tutor of necromancy.

If you want to be the shadowy influence hanging over Ulthuan's colonies, vote to be the shadowy influence hanging over Ulthuan's colonies.

And If you want a connection to other societies and academic institutes like some kind of gregarious Nyarlathotep, vote for a connection to other societies and academic institutions like some kind of gregarious Nyarlathotep.
 
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Curufinwe said:
okay I don't really care about the prestige vs grief vote, eithers fine, but I'm here to stump for ranged armory because guns in all their forms are really really interesting, early modern guns are even more interesting, and pirate guns that can shoot under water are TRIPLE interesting.
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But you see you're missing a very valuable point
Swords are cool
The Phoenixian said:
And If you want a connection to other societies and academic institutes like some kind of gregarious Nyarlathotep, vote for a connection to other societies and academic institutions like some kind of gregarious Nyarlathotep.
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I mean I am figuring we will be able to get at least one other trading partner if not other trading opportunities
 
Sinsystems said:
Side note, @Boney would it be possible to import salt water crocodiles or similar to populate the water around our island? I have this vision of basically making Petsobek by doing the thing that was done IRL at Crocodilopolis (this was an IRL place, look it up) where they adorned crocodiles with gold and worshipped them as offspring of the Sobek.

I want to do the thing that Age of Mythology did and put magical laser mirrors on their heads that we can use to laser our enemies.
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Well, one of the initial selling points of this contact was access to exotic animals. Seems like salt water crocodiles wouldn't be too out there of an ask?

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Does this mean the mage is sort of Jade wind wielding assassin? We should perhaps keep an eye on that.
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Hrm, I suspect given the whole "contradictory complimentary" stuff the elves tend to have (see their language and how every character can mean the complete opposite depending on context thanks to millennia of "literally"-esque word drift; yes this is something in Divided Loyalties, but I'd think it's a general worldbuilding thing that holds here too) it's not uncommon for one to really buy into the whole "cycle of death and life, they are two halves of the same coin" stuff (see any cthonic death and rebirth thing ever) and specialize in Ghyran and Shyish. Of course it could be a Jade and Amethyst assassin, but for elves I'd think the combo is general/common enough it's not really indicative until further info provided.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Does this mean the mage is sort of Jade wind wielding assassin? We should perhaps keep an eye on that.
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A_Somebody said:
Hrm, I suspect given the whole "contradictory complimentary" stuff the elves tend to have (see their language and how every character can mean the complete opposite depending on context thanks to millennia of "literally"-esque word drift; yes this is something in Divided Loyalties, but I'd think it's a general worldbuilding thing that holds here too) it's not uncommon for one to really buy into the whole "cycle of death and life, they are two halves of the same coin" stuff (see any cthonic death and rebirth thing ever) and specialize in Ghyran and Shyish. Of course it could be a Jade and Amethyst assassin, but for elves I'd think the combo is general/common enough it's not really indicative until further info provided.
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I think this is a lot more direct. This is a living person using the Wind of Death, which would be quite alien to a Liche priest, much less one used to vampires.
 
[X] [ACQUIRE] The Dread Abyssal

It is young Lutr's museum we will be curating, after all.

[X] [LEVER] Grief

Less "I am a necromancer and I can raise your late husband like the tomb-kings of old so you could reign together until the end of times!" and more "ah, yes [embarrrassed chuckle], see, my passion has always been the acquisition and free sharing of knowledge, and over the course of my scholarly pursuits I have mastered the arts of staving off or reversing death... Si I guess some things about me might be a tad... passé ?"
 
daedalus725 said:
I mean I am figuring we will be able to get at least one other trading partner if not other trading opportunities
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The thing is, Aelsabrim was explicitly marked as a rare capability when it comes to matters of royal connections.

Other sources of acquisitions can be expected to show up, especially if she pivots out of that role, but her connection to royalty and high society and the kinds of stories it provides cannot and should not be counted on occurring again. At the very least not in the form it does now.

If you want a deeply personal connection more than one between institutions (And a story of true love that defies even death~) then that is the reason that option exists, and Grief is a good pick.

My argument here is that that goes all ways, and whichever relationship is built first should be expected to be the focus for the foreseeable future.

There's a bunch of prospective stories here but I find it a bit offputting to read arguments that we can expect to have our cake and eat it too with any choice when we're explicitly warned that the opposite is a real risk. My choice in that, then, is that I could come to enjoy the shipping goggles of necromancyTM​, but I want to be Uncle Nyarlathotep more.

I want to be the stranger who swept in from the deserts of mysterious lands and came to the halls of knowledge. I want to be the one who upended conventional knowledge with new and exciting(old and forgotten) tales. I want to be the one who drove a generation of scholars at least slightly mad with new insights(ancient secrets). But in a campy fun way, befitting a pirate-faction villain, rather than with the dreadful inevitability of a cosmic-horror villain. I want to belong in a song written and played by the Darkest of the Hillside Thickets.

It being tied into a story where the legitimacy of the museum and its host state means other nations at the table just shrug and nod along and say that "oh, yeah, that happens sometimes," as would tie into Arathnorn's statement isn't quite as core to me personally, but is a very fun addition and a close companion in tone.

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EDIT: I don't know whether I'm going too far here or not or delivering this well or poorly. To lay everything out as clearly as I can, there was an issue early on in the vote where people were arguing to vote for something other than Grief in the idea that they could get it first, and expect to pick it up later, and my assumption was that it worked both ways in that regard.

My intent is partially to correct that and say to "understand what you really want, and then vote for what you really want," and partially to sell the option of Prestige and it's appeal to me in hopes it resonates with others. I am obviously heavily biased here, but I think that's not really a problem in and of itself as long as those biases are clear to all. Please, feel free to correct me if I am wrong in any part of all that.
 
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The Phoenixian said:
The thing is, Aelsabrim was explicitly marked as a rare capability when it comes to matters of royal connections.

Other sources of acquisitions can be expected to show up, especially if she pivots out of that role, but her connection to royalty and high society and the kinds of stories it provides cannot and should not be counted on occurring again. At the very least not in the form it does now.

If you want a deeply personal connection more than one between institutions (And a story of true love that defies even death~) then that is the reason that option exists, and Grief is a good pick.

My argument here is that that goes all ways, and whichever relationship is built first should be expected to be the focus for the foreseeable future.

There's a bunch of prospective stories here but I find it a bit offputting to read arguments that we can expect to have our cake and eat it too with any choice when we're explicitly warned that the opposite is a real risk. My choice in that, then, is that I could come to enjoy the shipping goggles of necromancyTM​, but I want to be Uncle Nyarlathotep more.

I want to be the stranger who swept in from the deserts of mysterious lands and came to the halls of knowledge. I want to be the one who upended conventional knowledge with new and exciting(old and forgotten) tales. I want to be the one who drove a generation of scholars at least slightly mad with new insights(ancient secrets). But in a campy fun way, befitting a pirate-faction villain, rather than with the dreadful inevitability of a cosmic-horror villain. I want to belong in a song written and played by the Darkest of the Hillside Thickets.

It being tied into a story where the legitimacy of the museum and its host state means other nations at the table just shrug and nod along and say that "oh, yeah, that happens sometimes," as would tie into Arathnorn's statement isn't quite as core to me personally, but is a very fun addition and a close companion in tone.

------------

EDIT: I don't know whether I'm going too far here or not or delivering this well or poorly. To lay everything out as clearly as I can, there was an issue early on in the vote where people were arguing to vote for something other than Grief in the idea that they could get it first, and expect to pick it up later, and my assumption was that it worked both ways in that regard.

My intent is partially to correct that and say to "understand what you really want, and then vote for what you really want," and partially to sell the option of Prestige and it's appeal to me in hopes it resonates with others. I am obviously heavily biased here, but I think that's not really a problem in and of itself as long as those biases are clear to all. Please, feel free to correct me if I am wrong in any part of all that.
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The problem with prestige is that is already the reason Harkon hired us, we would have to balance how much prestige each of our now two patrons get. Whose Museum is this anyway? Grief and power on the other hand lead to a complementary relationship that is easier to balance, on our end at least. Also grief is on limited offer more than the others because that elf prince's soul is going to be less and less himself with the passage of time.
 
The Phoenixian said:
The thing is, Aelsabrim was explicitly marked as a rare capability when it comes to matters of royal connections.

Other sources of acquisitions can be expected to show up, especially if she pivots out of that role, but her connection to royalty and high society and the kinds of stories it provides cannot and should not be counted on occurring again. At the very least not in the form it does now.
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To be honest I don't think she might lose to much elf face & her ties to the upper society because they only really have an issue with necromancy on the homeland and it won't be trafficing with the great enemy
The Phoenixian said:
There's a bunch of prospective stories here but I find it a bit offputting to read arguments that we can expect to have our cake and eat it too with any choice when we're explicitly warned that the opposite is a real risk. My choice in that, then, is that I could come to enjoy the shipping goggles of necromancyTM, but I want to be Uncle Nyarlathotep more.

I want to be the stranger who swept in from the deserts of mysterious lands and came to the halls of knowledge. I want to be the one who upended conventional knowledge with new and exciting(old and forgotten) tales. I want to be the one who drove a generation of scholars at least slightly mad with new insights(ancient secrets). But in a campy fun way, befitting a pirate-faction villain, rather than with the dreadful inevitability of a cosmic-horror villain. I want to belong in a song written and played by the Darkest of the Hillside Thickets.
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To be honest while most of the observations of use being nyarlathotep-y are going to have to come from the outside looking in because we are in Uncles head so the effect of the mistry will be less for us. But being an old thing ( so full of magic even Elfs can not rightly tell if it is magic) that has come from the sea to whisper knowledge into the ear of a Royal just as they lost their spouse is pretty cosmic-horror-y
 
Eh I'd think it's a bit optimistic to think elven society would be totally cool with full on Necromancy. They're aware of who Nagash is after all. But it is true Dhar use and general spooky ghost stuff is nearly as "holy shit everything about this is awful," as it gets when humans get involved with Dhar or start becoming ghosts. Like there's a whole region where having your dead relatives around grousing in your ear providing sage counsel is expected.
 
DragonParadox said:
The problem with prestige is that is already the reason Harkon hired us, we would have to balance how much prestige each of our now two patrons get. Whose Museum is this anyway? Grief and power on the other hand lead to a complementary relationship that is easier to balance, on our end at least. Also grief is on limited offer more than the others because that elf prince's soul is going to be less and less himself with the passage of time.
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That, particularly the bolded bit, feels like a really weird issue to pick to me. Another way of saying they both hired us for the same reason is "the same action pleases both parties." Especially when one or both sides know the score. (And we are here as only plausibly deniably Luthor's agent. One side already knows what's up; the other just needs to be filled in)

This is the sort of thing that, when it comes up in the real world, gets described with terms like "collaborative partnership" and "international cooperation." Could there possibly be ways of making one side feel like they got ripped off? Yes. Are there abundant tools to prevent or work around that issue? Also yes.
 
Apart from all the other arguments, I like the Grief option because it highlights the motive that Pahtsekhen is essentially a fairly well-intentioned and generous person.
That is, he never intentionally sought to harm people with his knowledge, he just saw an unhappy person and decided to share his wisdom with him to help him.
 
H2F2 said:
Apart from all the other arguments, I like the Grief option because it highlights the motive that Pahtsekhen is essentially a fairly well-intentioned and generous person.
That is, he never intentionally sought to harm people with his knowledge, he just saw an unhappy person and decided to share his wisdom with him to help him.
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While I like that interpretation of Pahtsekhen, it is worth noting that all four options are labelled [LEVER] for a reason.

We're not helping Aelsabrim and her husband out of the goodness of our hearts, we're doing it because she can give access to valuable exhibits we won't otherwise get.
 
A_Somebody said:
Eh I'd think it's a bit optimistic to think elven society would be totally cool with full on Necromancy. They're aware of who Nagash is after all. But it is true Dhar use and general spooky ghost stuff is nearly as "holy shit everything about this is awful," as it gets when humans get involved with Dhar or start becoming ghosts. Like there's a whole region where having your dead relatives around grousing in your ear providing sage counsel is expected.
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I would say that in case of Asur it's more ''spooky stuff is not necessary evil''. As proven by Cothique relationship with their ancestors but High Elves absolutely despise Necromancy and Dark Magic, simply because this stuff isn't, generally, practical and predictable.

For example, some Loremasters theorize that Warpstone was first created and used by the Old Ones for their arcane super machines, yet High Elves themselves prefer to solidify specific streams of magic and forge power stones rather than mash them all together to create warpstone, because for all the power of warpstone it's fundamentally volatile and unpredictable in it's effects.
No one is entirely sure how Warpstone came into existence. One theory offered by the Loremasters of Hoeth suggests Warpstone was a substance first created by the pre-historic Old Ones to power their inexplicable arcane devices, like the Chaos Gates. The Loremasters theorise that when whatever catastrophe overtook the Old Ones, the great power source was ejected from its place between both the material and immaterial universes.
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Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition-Realms of Sorcery page 43.
The mages s of Ulthuan have been creating stones of solidified magic for millennia. Their abilities at doing so far surpass anything that Human Magisters could hope to duplicate. Elven power stones are absolutely flawless and can be of almost any size. The enchanted sword that Loremaster Teclis forged for himself at the time of the last Great Chaos Incursion is fabled to have had eight such gems upon it; one for each of the Winds of Magic. Only such a powerful Elven archmage as Teclis would be able to unlock the power of such a weapon without causing great harm to himself.
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Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition-Realms of Sorcery page 44.

Another example, Asur generally don't like being resurrected and especially don't like the person responsible for said resurrection.
Koros was born centuries ago into a noble Elf family during the time of the war with the Dwarfs. Apprenticed to a powerful wizard serving in the armies of the Phoenix King, tragedy struck when Dwarfs caught the Elven army off guard and slaughtered them all-all except Koros. Witnessing the deaths of so many of his people, he slipped into madness, believing one day he would raise his mentor from the dead.

Koros buried his master and set himself on the dangerous path of necromancy. He embraced the study of Dark Magic and it turned his heart black with hatred for the living, especially the Dwarfs. His disgust for them only intensified when he finally returned to his master's grave and raised him from the dead. Expecting to receive praise, the Undead form of his master rebuked him instead, lamenting his turn toward the evils of Dark Magic. His master told him he would rather have died at the hands of the Dwarfs once more than to see his student come to such a pass.

Tormented with anger and hatred, Koros fled to an old graveyard, where he dabbled in the dark arts, learning the secret of immortality and finally becoming a Liche.
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Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition-Karak Azgal page 65.
 
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