This thing is gonna be 77 tons. Armor pericing 50 cal rounds wont cut it let alone the ar rounds you would be stuck with using quad copters smaller then the size of a motorcycle to get more then a handful of shots. Cheaper and easier just to pair a cannon with a missle launcher on the mech itself.
Project Knight [Mecha Design Bureau]
- Thread starter Verisaimilitude
- Start date
- Original Sci-Fi Fantasy
- Location
- Chelsea Alabama
Sorry but do you know of any vehicle that pirates and raiders would have that are 77 tons? At that point you aren't dealing with pirates and raiders you are dealing with an invading army and that is not what this mech would be designed. This mech is designed to lock down an area against raiders and pirates. The most you can reasonably expect from those are light armored vehicles, boats, and the like which attack drones are than capable of dealing with. The hydraulic pincers can deal with heavier stuff.
This isn't anything fancy and missiles aren't cheap nor as flexible.
Look I love the idea of giving our mech funnels, drones, or a leap slasher, but that's not what this project is for. We're not building a Gundam, or a Huckbein, or some other highly advanced craft or Ace Custom. We're building a Zaku or a Shadow Hawk. A workhorse, which is cheap but efficient. We've already strayed away from that a bit by making the legs and actuators a bit too complicated, I can't imagine that drones won't be expensive and technologically advanced, especially if that basically means we need to build and design additional tons of machines.
I doubt this world is as full of mecha as Battletech is, since that setting is basically centuries of war stacking on top of each other. But still, if all it takes to defeat our defenses is a single stolen mecha or tank, I don't think we've built a very good machine. I think my proposal would be to just put a few light anti-infantry/point defense guns alone with whatever cannon or missile system we end up with.
Now, I don't know anything about this setting, true. But I do know about Battletech. In Battletech bandits and raiders prefer lighter and cheaper machines due to their lack of support, but if they get their hands on a Heavy by god will they use it. And due to their habit of using whatever gear they can get their hands on, they tend to produce strange and dangerous variants of normal machines by strapping on whatever they can. Custom Marauder anyone?
I doubt this world is as full of mecha as Battletech is, since that setting is basically centuries of war stacking on top of each other. But still, if all it takes to defeat our defenses is a single stolen mecha or tank, I don't think we've built a very good machine. I think my proposal would be to just put a few light anti-infantry/point defense guns alone with whatever cannon or missile system we end up with.
It seems you are mixing something up. We are designing a mech dealing with an invading army. Pirates and warlords are the focus of another contract, the one with Megacorps and Third Tier states.
Please provide a citation that being able to reliably fight a foe of equivlent weight is not an explicit project goal because I quoted from an update where that requirement was stated.
- Location
- Chelsea Alabama
Thing is there is only one other mech in the setting and that's a flexible bipedal combat mech and something that is incredibly unlikely that raiders and pirates would have. Them having tanks is also just as low. Drone systems would probably be the most expensive of the three but their widespread use makes it a lot more cheaper than it otherwise would be especially since they don't put strain on the mech itself.
The Megacorps and Third Teir states wanted security mechs. The second tier states wanted defensive mechs that could hold the line.
Does this count? They need something to lock down an area and attack drones can do that.
Thozmp
Gets my kicks above the waistline, Sunshine.
Where are you getting that these mechs are for fighting infantry? You quote that the mechs need to "hold the line" but it isn't stated against what, and one of the project requirements is explicitly being able to defeat armored vehicles of the same tonnage.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Could we set up a...call it a maintenance latch...to mechanically lock the leg joints in a fully-upright position? So maintenance crews can get under the mech in the field without a crane .
- Location
- Chelsea Alabama
At this point I don't know and that is annoying the heck out of me.
Could it be your thinking RL pirates who are basicly infantry on whatever boats they can get?
- Location
- Chelsea Alabama
That's part of it. I also remember someone here saying that second tier states have to deal with mostly pirates and raiders and I can find it which is driving me nuts.
we can add a 25mm chain gun for both anti-infantry defense and for disabling external parts on hostile mechs.
For our third weapon slot, how about a near-future discount version of the Switchblade 600 as a compromise between drones and missiles?
en.wikipedia.org
For our third weapon slot, how about a near-future discount version of the Switchblade 600 as a compromise between drones and missiles?
AeroVironment Switchblade - Wikipedia
- Location
- Chelsea Alabama
That sounds like a great idea. Our mech should be able to carry a ridiculous amount of those things. Enough to probably dismantle the Zaibatsu it sounds like.we can add a 25mm chain gun for both anti-infantry defense and for disabling external parts on hostile mechs.
For our third weapon slot, how about a near-future discount version of the Switchblade 600 as a compromise between drones and missiles?
AeroVironment Switchblade - Wikipedia
Depending on what weapons we have available, simple autocannons might be the way to go. Just subject the enemy to bullet/shell hell and call it a day.
that's actualy what i was talking about for loitering mutions.
my main plan is to use the current most popular tank cannon with an autoloader for the main gun, a 20 to 25 mm autocannon/chain gun as the secondary, and then we pick the third slot depending on budget and what options we have.
edit: but I want to go off the shelf as much as possible to cut down costs.
This is more or less what I'm thinking. We have already used the majority of our cool custom unit points on the frame itself, so extra armaments should be kept cheap if possible.
Turn 6: Year 2 of Project Knight (Mid-Project Report)
New
Verisaimilitude
Meridian 'Mira' Visari
- Location
- Great Library of Verisaimilitude
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Project Knight - Mecha Design Bureau
Turn 6: Year 2 of Project Knight (Mid-Project Report)
Turn 6: Year 2 of Project Knight (Mid-Project Report)
[] [Skill] Skeletal Kinematics
Skill Improved: Skeletal Kinematics improved from Trained (+2) to Experienced (+3)
The annual review was more difficult than you hoped, but better than you expected.
Understandably, the senior directors had concerns about the current state of the project. There were concerns that the system was being over-engineered for its purpose and potential audience, but you were able to largely defend the choices made so far. The system needed to be capable if it was to be competitive in the market - if we under-engineered the chassis and a competitor put out a much more capable system, all our work would be for naught. While the system certainly had problems so far, there was plenty of time to resolve those issues, and the system's perks gave it a lot of potential.
Your arguments land well, but there is a concern that the board wants addressed immediately before the project can advance to the next stage, you will be required to tackle the platform's biggest issue in their eyes. The system being prone to breakdowns is one thing, but when combined with the high level of technical complexity and specialist parts used, it will make it prohibitively expensive and difficult for Second Tier Nations to repair and maintain. Most likely, they would need to frequently ship the Mech to our own facilities; an added expense that will likely be a no-go for most of our customer base.
Additionally, with regards to customers, we have briefed our contacts in several of the more successful Second Tier states and they are excited about the rapid progress you've been making. Currently, our most likely first buyers are as follows:
- Kingdom of Kadiri: The people of Java once ruled an empire that stretched across the eastern archipelago, but has now turned its ambitions to the stars.
- Historically gained fame and renown when their fleets defeated the Yuan Dynasty's Combined Fleet at the Battle of the Strait, putting a permanent halt to the Mongolians' southern conquests. Their history of colonization in Oceania and Southern Atlantea carried through to the space age - Javanese were amongst the first to settle the stars. They need a reliable workhorse in large numbers that can endure and fight pirates, marauder fleets, and potential insurgents on far-flung worlds across the galaxy.
- Bonus Requirement: To sell to this faction, Build & Repair Speeds must be at least C- and Ease of Maintenance must be at least C-
- Historically gained fame and renown when their fleets defeated the Yuan Dynasty's Combined Fleet at the Battle of the Strait, putting a permanent halt to the Mongolians' southern conquests. Their history of colonization in Oceania and Southern Atlantea carried through to the space age - Javanese were amongst the first to settle the stars. They need a reliable workhorse in large numbers that can endure and fight pirates, marauder fleets, and potential insurgents on far-flung worlds across the galaxy.
- Bethnar Republic: Extending across the Mesopotamia region of Earth, this ancient and venerable region has been reduced to a shadow of its ancient power and prosperity.
- Since regaining its independence following the Persian Civil War at the turn of the millennium, the Bethnari state has become a model for reconstructing exhausted nations. They are safe from war at home, but wish to restore their prestige by procuring some level of advanced military technology - they want something advanced and fancy enough to show off on parade. If it's not practical, that's fine - but they are on a tight budget, so keeping costs down is essential.
- Bonus Requirement: To sell to this faction, Tech Simplicity must not be higher than C+, Material Affordability must be at least B-, Ease of Maintenance must be at least C-
- Since regaining its independence following the Persian Civil War at the turn of the millennium, the Bethnari state has become a model for reconstructing exhausted nations. They are safe from war at home, but wish to restore their prestige by procuring some level of advanced military technology - they want something advanced and fancy enough to show off on parade. If it's not practical, that's fine - but they are on a tight budget, so keeping costs down is essential.
- Sahel Alliance: The Sahel states are less of a unified nation-state and more of a military confederation formed by a number of smaller semi-independent states.
- Formed after the Kessler Crisis and Skylift Collapse devastated the Equatorial Zone, the once prosperous states of West Africa collapsed into instability and civil war. Some of Earth's worst extremist groups dominate much of the Sahel and Sahara regions, using the remoteness and hostile environment to their advantage. Some of these are surprisingly well-funded, and war has raged in these parts for centuries - the Sahel Alliance wants a machine that can handle the intense conditions of the region and take the fight to the insurgents.
- Bonus Requirement: To sell to this faction, Skeletal Agility must be at least E- and Heat Management must be at least C-
- Formed after the Kessler Crisis and Skylift Collapse devastated the Equatorial Zone, the once prosperous states of West Africa collapsed into instability and civil war. Some of Earth's worst extremist groups dominate much of the Sahel and Sahara regions, using the remoteness and hostile environment to their advantage. Some of these are surprisingly well-funded, and war has raged in these parts for centuries - the Sahel Alliance wants a machine that can handle the intense conditions of the region and take the fight to the insurgents.
- Sagittarian Colonial Coalition: Centred in and around the Lagoon Nebula, the SCC was founded by colonists from Earth, but is too isolated to be effectively governed.
- The SCC was one of the first large-scale interstellar entities to declare its full independence from Earth - and it was independence paid for in blood. The Sagittarians have fought many wars against Earth's powerful nation-states and somehow survived until now through the resilience and power of its ground forces. With the advent of Mech technology, it needs a flexible machine with enough firepower and survivability to hold its own against the threat of invading Zaibatsu Mecha or anything comparable.
- Bonus Requirements: To sell to this faction, Weapon Hardpoints must be at least C-, Power Control must be at least C-, Armour Plating must be at least C-
- The SCC was one of the first large-scale interstellar entities to declare its full independence from Earth - and it was independence paid for in blood. The Sagittarians have fought many wars against Earth's powerful nation-states and somehow survived until now through the resilience and power of its ground forces. With the advent of Mech technology, it needs a flexible machine with enough firepower and survivability to hold its own against the threat of invading Zaibatsu Mecha or anything comparable.
In addition to the potential clients listed above, there is some interest from the Amazon Republic and the Mai Archipelago, but their relevant ministries of defence have not confirmed they will be seeking acquisition of Mecha yet. Unfortunately, the East African Federation has pulled out of bidding - our informants have let us know that they are pursuing a local solution from their extensive native industry.
Your directive is simple: the project has already allocated some funding for addressing such issues, now's the time to cash in.
Spent: [-1] Project Funding (1/4 of contingency budget spent - this affects your ability to spend on corrections and last-minute changes later in the project)
You will be expected to use your time wisely and work with your engineering teams - remember, your primary goal is to address the maintenance issues somehow. If after that you can squeeze a little more performance out of the system or otherwise better prepare the Mech for combat fitting in the next stage of development, then all the better.
[Limb Erector Adjustments] With our increased experience in engineering Mech limbs, we've made some breakthroughs in the adjustability of our limb configurations. If we put this into practice and redesign the limb actuators from scratch, we'll be able to refine the power and joint locking mechanisms. In short, the legs will gain a greater degree of vertical range of motion with a second set of joint locks. This would allow the Mech to optionally adopt a fully erect position, gaining the ability to peer over obstacles and cross rugged terrain features. Just as importantly, as long as the legs remain functional, it would also allow techs easy access to the underside of the Mech for servicing and field repairs.
(unlocked by Skeletal Kinematics Lv.3)
[Joint Replacement Bearings] We have a proposed upgrade for the hip joints. Replacing the hydraulic hip and knee disks with tungsten carbide based alloy bearings would noticeably improve the legs' range of lateral motion at a slight cost in power. More importantly, the joints will be simpler, more durable, and less prone to failures. Bearings of this size won't be cheap, though - we'll have to pay a premium to source them.
[Ribbed Hull Structure] Currently, the outer hull of the body section is composed of layers of thick plating that supports the weight of the Mech and distributes it through the limbs to the ground. This provides a basic level of protection to all the internal components as even exposed hull will be largely immune to small arms fire. This is an expensive and heavy solution; we can substantially reduce both the material expenditure and weight of the system if we were to reduce the outer hull to a series of interconnecting rib beams with a thin shell of structural steel. This would reduce the weight and material cost of the entire build while making it easier to access internal components once the external armour plates are removed. Sure, the internals will be a bit more vulnerable to spalling and breaching shots than before, but we'll probably be able to compensate with the additional available tonnage.
[Skeletal Hardening] Many of the maintenance problems we're encountering are due to weaknesses in the skeletal system. In particular, the lower joints are failing earlier than expected due to the stresses of the hull's weight on the lower limbs. The Metallurgy department has recommended we switch all our joints and actuators to an alloy with a greater compressive strength - it'll be much heavier than our current system, but it'll pay dividends in the lifespan of our limbs and joints and go a long way to ease our maintenance issues.
(unlocked by Skeletal Kinematics Lv.3)
[Skill for Rolls: Skeletal Kinematics (+3)]
[+1] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Power Control, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Project Funding (you will lose an additional 1/4 of your contingency budget on top of the 1 already spent)
[+1] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Power Control, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Project Funding (you will lose an additional 1/4 of your contingency budget on top of the 1 already spent)
[Joint Replacement Bearings] We have a proposed upgrade for the hip joints. Replacing the hydraulic hip and knee disks with tungsten carbide based alloy bearings would noticeably improve the legs' range of lateral motion at a slight cost in power. More importantly, the joints will be simpler, more durable, and less prone to failures. Bearings of this size won't be cheap, though - we'll have to pay a premium to source them.
[Skill for Rolls: Skeletal Kinematics (+3)]
[+1] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Skeletal Stability, [+1] Joint Protection, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Limb Drive Speed, [-1] Material Affordability
[+1] Skeletal Agility, [+1] Skeletal Stability, [+1] Joint Protection, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Limb Drive Speed, [-1] Material Affordability
[Ribbed Hull Structure] Currently, the outer hull of the body section is composed of layers of thick plating that supports the weight of the Mech and distributes it through the limbs to the ground. This provides a basic level of protection to all the internal components as even exposed hull will be largely immune to small arms fire. This is an expensive and heavy solution; we can substantially reduce both the material expenditure and weight of the system if we were to reduce the outer hull to a series of interconnecting rib beams with a thin shell of structural steel. This would reduce the weight and material cost of the entire build while making it easier to access internal components once the external armour plates are removed. Sure, the internals will be a bit more vulnerable to spalling and breaching shots than before, but we'll probably be able to compensate with the additional available tonnage.
[Skill for Rolls: Structural Engineering (+2)]
[+2] Increased Usable Tonnage, [+1] Material Affordability, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Armour Plating, [-1] Pilot Protection, [-1] Component Protection
[+2] Increased Usable Tonnage, [+1] Material Affordability, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Armour Plating, [-1] Pilot Protection, [-1] Component Protection
[Skeletal Hardening] Many of the maintenance problems we're encountering are due to weaknesses in the skeletal system. In particular, the lower joints are failing earlier than expected due to the stresses of the hull's weight on the lower limbs. The Metallurgy department has recommended we switch all our joints and actuators to an alloy with a greater compressive strength - it'll be much heavier than our current system, but it'll pay dividends in the lifespan of our limbs and joints and go a long way to ease our maintenance issues.
[Skill for Rolls: Materials Science (+2)]
[+1] Skeletal Durability, [+1] Joint Protection, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Decreased Usable Tonnage
[+1] Skeletal Durability, [+1] Joint Protection, [+1] Ease of Maintenance
[-1] Decreased Usable Tonnage
New Vote: Choose your Chassis Adjustments!
Approval voting is used to represent some level of chaos and unpredictability in a large project like this - not everything is always going to come out perfect, and you'll have to do your best to make it work at each stage of development. The top two votes will win - ties will be resolved with a coin flip/die roll.
[] Limb Erector Adjustments
[] Joint Replacement Bearings
[] Ribbed Hull Structure
[] Skeletal Hardening
Meta Notes: There's a lot of discussion around weapon systems and options. I think once we address the board's concerns, weapons will actually come next before engine, since every other part of the system will ultimately be built in support of the mech's ability to fight. Once weapon mounts and systems are decided, you'll be able to choose an engine and other internal systems in support of the weapons capabilities you want the Mech to have.
I haven't quite finished the mech drawing yet, took some time to figure out the style, I'm hoping the sketch of your first prototype (and then whatever adjustments you make above) will be ready by tomorrow!
Voting is now open until .
EDIT: Side note, with all the conversation about weapon systems and likely enemies, I'll drop some intel about the kinds of opponents your potential buyers are likely to be facing to help inform the upcoming weapon selection.
Last edited:
Onionjones
Hopefully Chill
- Location
- The Snack Zone
[X] Skeletal Hardening
[X] Joint Replacement Bearings
[X] Joint Replacement Bearings
Last edited:
- Location
- Hollister
[X] Limb Erector Adjustments
[X] Skeletal Hardening
[X] Skeletal Hardening
- Location
- United States
[X] Limb Erector Adjustments
[X] Skeletal Hardening
[X] Skeletal Hardening
[X] Limb Erector Adjustments
[X] Skeletal Hardening
[X] Skeletal Hardening
Ok so Current specs to build order specs are
Skeletal Design E
Structural Efficiency -D
Skeletal Durability - E+
Skeletal Agility F (Sahel > F+)
Skeletal stability D
Actuator Precision F+
Battle Effectivenes E (Core > D-)
Weapon Hardpoints C- (SCC >D+) We pass this ATM
Armor Plating F+ (SCC > D+)
Pilot Protection F
Joint Protection E-
Component Protection E
Power and Rive Effectiveness D
Power Control E+ (SCC > D+)
Limb Drive Speed C-
Heat Management D- (Sahel > D+)
Logistical Values C- (Core > D-) Pass ATM
Material Affordability B (Core > C-)Pass(Bethnar > C+) Pass
Tech Simplicity D (Bethnar < B) Pass
Build and Repair Speeds C (Core > D-) Pass (Kadiri > D+) Pass
Ease of Maintenance E+ (Bethnar > D+) (Kadiri >D+)
So looking at this, what we need to take depends on what we think we can hit.
Given all these options help Ease of Maintenance equally i'll judge by other merits.
Limb Erector will boost power control which is a Thing the SCC wants, and as long as we don't fail the roll we get the mark. Which means As long as we don't hork Hardpoints and Armor we have a good shot at hitting the reqs. I just don't know how valuable that funding is going to be for us. But we do have 4 Additional stages for the design Engines, Weapons, Armor and additional systems. Some of these are likely to cost for the good stuff.
Joint replacement bearing
If we take this Bethnar is out unless we get something to make it back, which is less likely than i'd like. It gives a slight boost to battle effectiveness, but other than that it's not all that helpful.
Ribbed Hull structure
Tanks our battle metrics, but given we haven't slotted in anything to make it battle worthy, Im actually confident we can make it back. It also boost material affordability which we still want, and gives us more tonnage. Overall i like this pick.
Skeletal hardening
For the loss of a tonnage we gain some minor battlefield effective boost That's it. Not a big loss either way as we have Three extra tons from the powered legs.
If we want the Bearings we'll need the ribbed hull to make up the difference if we want to keep the Bethnar happy. If we want the Erector we have to be cognizant that we might run out of funding or have to pass up something really nice later. Skeletal hardening is an option we can take that costs little but tonnage.
All that in mind....
[X] Limb Erector Adjustments
[X] Skeletal Hardening
Skeletal Design E
Structural Efficiency -D
Skeletal Durability - E+
Skeletal Agility F (Sahel > F+)
Skeletal stability D
Actuator Precision F+
Battle Effectivenes E (Core > D-)
Weapon Hardpoints C- (SCC >D+) We pass this ATM
Armor Plating F+ (SCC > D+)
Pilot Protection F
Joint Protection E-
Component Protection E
Power and Rive Effectiveness D
Power Control E+ (SCC > D+)
Limb Drive Speed C-
Heat Management D- (Sahel > D+)
Logistical Values C- (Core > D-) Pass ATM
Material Affordability B (Core > C-)Pass(Bethnar > C+) Pass
Tech Simplicity D (Bethnar < B) Pass
Build and Repair Speeds C (Core > D-) Pass (Kadiri > D+) Pass
Ease of Maintenance E+ (Bethnar > D+) (Kadiri >D+)
So looking at this, what we need to take depends on what we think we can hit.
Given all these options help Ease of Maintenance equally i'll judge by other merits.
Limb Erector will boost power control which is a Thing the SCC wants, and as long as we don't fail the roll we get the mark. Which means As long as we don't hork Hardpoints and Armor we have a good shot at hitting the reqs. I just don't know how valuable that funding is going to be for us. But we do have 4 Additional stages for the design Engines, Weapons, Armor and additional systems. Some of these are likely to cost for the good stuff.
Joint replacement bearing
If we take this Bethnar is out unless we get something to make it back, which is less likely than i'd like. It gives a slight boost to battle effectiveness, but other than that it's not all that helpful.
Ribbed Hull structure
Tanks our battle metrics, but given we haven't slotted in anything to make it battle worthy, Im actually confident we can make it back. It also boost material affordability which we still want, and gives us more tonnage. Overall i like this pick.
Skeletal hardening
For the loss of a tonnage we gain some minor battlefield effective boost That's it. Not a big loss either way as we have Three extra tons from the powered legs.
If we want the Bearings we'll need the ribbed hull to make up the difference if we want to keep the Bethnar happy. If we want the Erector we have to be cognizant that we might run out of funding or have to pass up something really nice later. Skeletal hardening is an option we can take that costs little but tonnage.
All that in mind....
[X] Limb Erector Adjustments
[X] Skeletal Hardening