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The Last Daughter -- Dragon-Blooded Sorcery School Quest

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[x] A strange memory
I find it odd that Memnon took the time to approach us in person when V'Neef is making us come to her despite having less to offer.
 
Gazetteer said:
You see L'nessa at once. She's standing near the foot of the statue, looking up at it with a fretful sort of frown. It's certainly impressive — a serpentine, dark-scaled dragon sinks fangs capped in black jade into the surface of a full moon wrought from solid silver, its gold claws gripping it tightly, not letting it escape. The plinth beneath proclaims the date and occasion of its dedication by the Empress herself.
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So V'neef decided not to come.

Gazetteer said:
L'nessa actually stops short, turning to glare at you — a more heated expression than you've ever earned from her before. "Ambraea. Mnemon hates her." Then, in a quieter, more frustrated tone, she adds: "Not that you're any better, sometimes."

You recoil a little. "Excuse me?" You didn't think you'd been so obvious about it.
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Oh. Didn't really notice that. Well, maybe that was one of the reasons V'neef decided not to talk in person to Ambrea about an alliance.

Additionally, although V'neef seems convinced that peaceful co-existence with her sister is impossible. I can't help but wonder if they could have come to an agreement if V'neef had been willing to give up her ambitions and pride... On the other hand, maybe in that case their relationship wouldn't have been so bad to begin with.

Gazetteer said:
"You can make that promise on her behalf?" you ask. You'd been doing your best not to imagine the Realm outright descending into civil war, up until this point. But it's a practical inevitability if Mnemon is as steadfast as she claims in refusing to accept any claimant aside from herself.

"If she's not going to at least match Mnemon's offer as best as she can, I have no idea how she intends for you to consider us at all," L'nessa says.
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I wonder if this means V'neef wanted to find out first what Mnemon was willing to offer before making her offer, or that her original offer was so bad that L'nessa decided to keep quiet about it.


Well, yes, this whole situation is an absolute mess for poor L'nessa.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
Additionally, although V'neef seems convinced that peaceful co-existence with her sister is impossible. I can't help but wonder if they could have come to an agreement if V'neef had been willing to give up her ambitions and pride... On the other hand, maybe in that case their relationship wouldn't have been so bad to begin with.
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Well, this is kind of out-of-quest knowledge (unless V'neef comes clean when we meet her), but here it's kind of a case of reversed cause and effect. V'neef is not letting go of her ambitions precisely because she's so deathly afraid of Mnemon, and she knows/believes that if Mnemon decided to move against her, the only place that would grant her and her House any security or assurance of survival would be the Scarlet Throne... and that that is gone if Mnemon gets it.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
Additionally, although V'neef seems convinced that peaceful co-existence with her sister is impossible. I can't help but wonder if they could have come to an agreement if V'neef had been willing to give up her ambitions and pride... On the other hand, maybe in that case their relationship wouldn't have been so bad to begin with.
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I think the main problem is that Mnemon genuinely feels V'neef doesn't deserve the incredibly lucrative Merchant Marine her mother simply handed her. Even in the best case scenario it's somewhat likely Mnemon Reduces V'neef to a patrician house unless some very pressing disaster convinces her not to, which with the enemies V'neef has made in the course of her rise combined with the Allies lost to Tepet's failed campaign, leave her likely to never rise again.

Mnemon has a reputation for cruelty towards her enemies and has made herself a political enemy of V'neef even prior to the empresses disappearance. Even if all she does is not get in the way of a Peleps and there allies attempt to seize the merchant marine from a weakened V'neef, that's a major thing for V'neef to worry about.

Unfortunately, of all the Empress's daughters, I'd say Ambraea is handling things best, which leaves the other two too stubbornly push ahead and panic respectively. Sometimes lacking a direction let's you better choose which of the paths ahead of you is safe and which is treacherous.
 
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I don't know, Mnemon was just bragging about not being Ragara. If she and V'neef can be convinced to set aside their enimity somehow by convincing Mnemon to promise to leave V'neef and and her house alone and convince V'neef to believe it we can short circuit a lot of the more bloody civil war posibilites.

It might lead to rather interesting combinations of sides as well.

I mean I was just reading the Heirs to Shogunate and war in the west scenerio is still very bloody but it is V'neef vs Peleps with Mnemon never mentioned and instead it is Cathak that goes for the throne as Peleps ally. If we succeed in making peace between Mnemon and V'neef we might end up facing against something like that. I suppose there is no such a thing as bloodless war.



Oh and vote;

[X] A familiar turn of phrase
 
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Tasoli said:
I mean I was just reading the Heirs to Shogunate and war in the west scenerio is still very bloody but it is V'neef vs Peleps with Mnemon never mentioned and instead it is Cathak that goes for the throne as Peleps ally. If we succeed in making peace between Mnemon and V'neef we might end up facing against something like that. I suppose there is no such a thing as bloodless war.
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The War in the West scenario chooses to foreground the events in the West, with the two largest naval powers in the Realm (Peleps and V'neef) fighting each other as Peleps attempts to essentially take all V'neef's satrapies away to carve out its own empire. Events on the Blessed Isle are not in focus, because that is not the primary focus of that content, but they're are not a lot of scenarios where Mnemon is likely to accept someone else on the throne peacefully.
 
Gazetteer said:
The War in the West scenario chooses to foreground the events in the West, with the two largest naval powers in the Realm (Peleps and V'neef) fighting each other as Peleps attempts to essentially take all V'neef's satrapies away to carve out its own empire. Events on the Blessed Isle are not in focus, because that is not the primary focus of that content, but they're are not a lot of scenarios where Mnemon is likely to accept someone else on the throne peacefully.
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I just found it really interesting because Mnemon vs Cathak and V'neef vs Peleps makes them natural allies but such power block looks very unlikely from where we are.
 
Tasoli said:
I don't know, Mnemon was just bragging about not being Ragara. If she and V'neef can be convinced to set aside their enimity somehow by convincing Mnemon to promise to leave V'neef and and her house alone and convince V'neef to believe it we can short circuit a lot of the more bloody civil war posibilites.

It might lead to rather interesting combinations of sides as well.

I mean I was just reading the Heirs to Shogunate and war in the west scenerio is still very bloody but it is V'neef vs Peleps with Mnemon never mentioned and instead it is Cathak that goes for the throne as Peleps ally. If we succeed in making peace between Mnemon and V'neef we might end up facing against something like that. I suppose there is no such a thing as bloodless war.



Oh and vote;

[X] A familiar turn of phrase
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I think the big problem is that Ambraea doesn't have a position of trust with either of the matriarchs, in part because of her V'neef hatred, and joining one ensures she can't do so with the other, so she really can't help either of them that way. Unless we end up attached to Sesus playing Kingmaker alongside Sesus Raenyah to facilitate a peace summit under the protection of sesus's legions, I don't see an avenue to Ambraea arranging peace.

Gazetteer said:
The War in the West scenario chooses to foreground the events in the West, with the two largest naval powers in the Realm (Peleps and V'neef) fighting each other as Peleps attempts to essentially take all V'neef's satrapies away to carve out its own empire. Events on the Blessed Isle are not in focus, because that is not the primary focus of that content, but they're are not a lot of scenarios where Mnemon is likely to accept someone else on the throne peacefully.
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Interesting. It would be hilarious if we actually chose to run away to Prasad only to end up dragged into a conflict between V'neef and Peleps.
 
I can see why V'neef choose to have L'neesa send this message, but I think she overestimated her daughter here. L'neesa very nearly screwed things up beyond repair with Ambraea.

It's a shame how little everyone can trust each other. Mnemon could probably accept V'neef (or at least accept her House) if her half-sister would back down and not oppose her. As it is, it looks like things will get real ugly real fast.

I doubt anyone would nominate her, but it would be funny if someone suggested Ambraea as a relatively 'neutral' choice for Empress (i.e. one most of them think they can use and without any centuries/decades old grudges to carry out).
 
I´m a bit hesitant to follow the threads opinion on V'neef. As long as her mother protected her she was all to happy to accept the assets of Peleps and Nellens (merchant marine and satrapies respectively Irrc). It truly isn´t V'neefs fault that Her Redness in another move of social engineering and divide et impera blatantly favored her. Used her to weaken ascendent houses (Peleps) and sow more rivalries for houses with only one truly bad relationship (Nellens with Sesus as nemesis). But she also really, really took advantage of the blatant favoritism, didn´t she? Safe in the knowledge that it wouldn´t matter how many enemies her growing house would make because the Empress would look out for her. Until She no longer did. So V'neef is not as innocent as L'nessa believes. And imagine how it looks to Berit or Mnemon. Mnemon had to constantly deal with Ragara assassins. Berit didn´t even get her own house. And how much did V'neef get? No, imo if V'neef didn´t want to trade power and influence in exchange for being hated by half the dynasty, she could have done things differently. But she didn´t. Because she is her mothers daugther and tool against all other scarlet descendents (and tools).
 
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Gazetteer said:
L'nessa actually stops short, turning to glare at you — a more heated expression than you've ever earned from her before. "Ambraea. Mnemon hates her." Then, in a quieter, more frustrated tone, she adds: "Not that you're any better, sometimes."

You recoil a little. "Excuse me?" You didn't think you'd been so obvious about it.

"All of you do!" L'nessa says, her voice rising in volume as she draws herself up to her full height. The top of her head barely clears your eye level. "All of you! Like children. Is it her fault that your mother actually loved her and not you?"

The words hit you like a spear through the chest, cold and painful. You don't know what exactly you look like in that moment, but L'nessa immediately deflates, taking a very hasty step back, something like fear coming into her bearing. Her legs collide with the base of the monument's plinth. "I'm sorry," she says, eyes very wide. "I'm sorry! I just—"
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I could feel that from here, damn.

[X] A familiar turn of phrase
 
Blueshift said:
I can see why V'neef choose to have L'neesa send this message, but I think she overestimated her daughter here. L'neesa very nearly screwed things up beyond repair with Ambraea.
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to be fair, that's more the result of our vote than anything else. unless Gaz says otherwise I have to assume the outcome would have been better if we'd picked a more public venue rather than one L'nessa would only pick because she is falling apart.

that said, she's definitely putting to much on L'nessa's shoulders either way, which emphasizes how few trustworthy individuals V'neef has and how thin she is spreading herself out.
Bohnenpflanzer said:
No, imo if V'neef didn´t want to trade power and influence in exchange for being hated by half the dynasty, she could have done things differently. But she didn´t. Because she is her mothers daugther and tool against all other scarlet descendents (and tools).
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I don't think V'neef had as much lee way to refuse the empress as a house ascended ahead of forming a proper power base as you think. The blame for this lies squarely on the Empress's shoulder. She was the one playing the realm and her heirs against one another as she always has. V'neef was young when the scarlet empress sunk her claws in.
 
Tasoli said:
I just found it really interesting because Mnemon vs Cathak and V'neef vs Peleps makes them natural allies but such power block looks very unlikely from where we are.
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A Mnemon-Cathak alliance would also be a natural team-up, particularly if the Immaculates intervene.

Mnemon-V'neef would work wonders to soothe people's fear that Mnemon is going to go after them. Unfortunately, it'd always be shaky because V'neef is a natural alternative to Mnemon, which would be poisonous to their relationship even without the preexisting hostility.

A lot of rulers had antagonistic relationships with their expected successors because the latter attracts everyone dissatisfied with the current state of things.
 
Randino Treviani said:
I don't think V'neef had as much lee way to refuse the empress as a house ascended ahead of forming a proper power base as you think. The blame for this lies squarely on the Empress's shoulder. She was the one playing the realm and her heirs against one another as she always has. V'neef was young when the scarlet empress sunk her claws in.
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Oh, definitely the Empress is to blame for a lot of this. Big Red is the one who purposefully played the Houses against each other, who didn't choose a successor which led to this whole mess now that she's gone. However, she is now gone. And V'neef is making her own choices.

The fear L'nessa showed, felt like V'neef is playing herself up as the victim too much. Yes, Mnemon dislikes her. But is there really nothing she could do to protect her House? Offering her support in exchange for marriages that bind their Houses tightly together is the kind of thing dynasties are built on.

I don't blame V'neef for being ambitious; all of the Empress' daughters are. Even Ambraea with her focus on saving others and protecting those close to her wants a Great House. But between Mnemon and V'neef, at least Mnemon feels honest about it.

[X] A familiar turn of phrase
 
Also I don't think V'neef as planning to make that good of a offer if we met with L'nessa first.
 
Tasoli said:
Also I don't think V'neef as planning to make that good of a offer if we met with L'nessa first.
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I doubt that. I think the issue is of scale and skill rather than intention. V'neef was prepared to offer Ambraea most of what Mnemon has, but she isn't a sorcerer and doesn't have ancient, powerful sorcerers in her house to act as mentor. she also doesn't have centuries to build up her holdings and membership, nor ties to the immaculate order to defend Nazat through influence rather than isolation.

so the problem is that matching Mnemon's offer will require her to cut deals with her would be allies to do things like get a sorcerous mentor for Ambraea in order to try and match Mnemon's offer. the key seller on the deal is that rather than just a promising Adoptee we'd be an adopted family member hearth bonded to her own favored daughter, which, unlike Mnemon's offer, kind of drags Maia and Sola into the equation as well.

edit: also V'neef is not a strongly pro immaculate texts tiger mom so less potential for conflict over Ambraea's sorcerous choices or more questionable associates. less micromanagement in general I imagine.
 
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