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The Dragon Roars: A KMT Quest

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We still have border skirmishing going on with the Fengtian as the vote on how to deal with that got interrupted by what happened in Guangzhou. Demobilization is currently ongoing and slated to be finished by the end of turn 9. We still have to occupy Sichuan against Taiping rebels while we are reconstructing it. The forces of the NRA are very overstretched and I do not think opening yet another front to be a good idea, especially since we just helped arm the GMD.
 
Mobilising for a war against the GMD is just as likely to end up with us having to use our forces to put down the conscripts revolt as it is to give us the forced needed to fight the war the NRA wants.

Remember that we had a revolt from the conscripts who are just keeping the peace in Sichuan already and the partial demobilisation only somewhat calmed them down. Going back on our promises and conscripting again to throw them into another shooting war is going to destroy our popularity at best.

fighting the GMD without mobilisation is pretty obviously impossible, seeing as we dont have enough forces for our comittments without a war already

MaironHWH said:
KMT so bad at revolution they need NRA/Sun intervention to get them in line -> KMT refuse to support the revolution AGAIN -> NRA/Sun intervene again to save revolution

The people don't care about internal politicking over whose being "realistic", they see the KMT needing to constantly be overridden by Sun/NRA and say "oh these guys suck" not "woaw power comes from the barrel of a gun"
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The people are going to see themselves starving and not care who declared another war, just that they suffer because of it.

And Unfortunately, the blame would fall on us because in the end we were the ones who declared the war

high minded ideals are not going to override the material conditions of the people


[X] [GMD] Leave them be, for now.
[X] KMT - Mainline
 
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Still a net positive for them to no longer be under the French rule and I severely doubt that the revolutionaries who just threw off the colonial turanny of the French and were helped to become independent by us will decide to cast in with British puppet state of Xin Han just because we decided to become a one-party state. Kind of interested in while fresh off their victory they decide to do any pro-gamer moves against the Portuguese in Macao or the British in Hong Kong actually but probably not.

FYI the GMD state should have somewhere on the order of like ~35-40 million people despite the small size.
 
[X] [GMD] Leave them be, for now.
[X] KMT - Mainline

The NRA wilding, even if we want to we're not ready.
 
So much for DemCent... And yet, we have to keep trying.

[X] [GMD] Leave them be, for now.
[X] KMT - Mainline

If the Doctor is still angry, let's point him towards the Japanese or something.
 
"The NRA will reveal themselves as Warlords with pretensions of Republicanism" Yes, cause that's what we are. Don't get it twisted. That's what the Republic of China *is*.

Like genuinely what are people gonna expect to happen if we say no? That the NRA/Sun are going to go "ah I see a sensible moderation where they accept our first demand and then reject the second demand, thus not truly picking a side. Canny." and then they'll both stop existing forever and not coup the Assembly.

DemCent no longer matters, its every assembly member for himself

In the wise words of some guy, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
 
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ArvisPresley said:
"The NRA will reveal themselves as Warlords with pretensions of Republicanism" Yes, cause that's what we are. Don't get it twisted. That's what the Republic of China *is*.

Like genuinely what are people gonna expect to happen if we say no? That the NRA/Sun are going to go "ah I see a sensible moderation where they accept our first demand and then reject the second demand, thus not truly picking a side. Canny." and then they'll both stop existing forever and not coup the Assembly.

DemCent no longer matters, its every assembly member for himself

In the wise words of some guy, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
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If the NRA forces the war despite parliament objections that's maybe the best outcome, cause the failure will destroy their credibility
 
ArvisPresley said:
Like genuinely what are people gonna expect to happen if we say no? That the NRA/Sun are going to go "ah I see a sensible moderation where they accept our first demand and then reject the second demand, thus not truly picking a side. Canny." and then they'll both stop existing forever and not coup the Assembly.

DemCent no longer matters, its every assembly member for himself
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DemCent matters more than ever during this time when the legislature is in peril, as the splintering indecisiveness that prevented anything from getting passed was exactly what eroded public/military/Sun's confidence in Lanzhou's ability to govern. To call for a return to the time before DemCent shows either a gross level of ignorance on what got us into this mess in the first place, or an active attempt of sabotage against any attempts to prevent a total NRA military coup.

So long as the KMT legislature in Lanzhou presents a united front, the NRA cannot afford to attempt a coup at this stage now that they have reinforced the party-state across the RoC. An attack on the legislature is an attack on the bureaucracy, which is an attack on the logistical chain that keeps the economy running, and the very flow of food and bullets that the army needs to survive. To destroy the legislature at this moment would mean imploding the country, and the NRA and Sun are aware of that fact. So now is the time to put our foot down and not simply agree to whatever they want like a bunch of spineless toadies!
 
Imo the ranking is:

KMT says yes. The blame for the disaster is going to fall on both the KMT and the NRA, weakening the Republic overall and party stability, worst outcome

KMT says no, but NRA does it anyway. The blame for the disaster is going to fall on the NRA, weakening the Republic overall, but reducing the political strength of the NRA members most opposed to us.

KMT says No, the NRA doesn't do it. The NRA doesn't lose political power from advocating for the Southern Expedition, but the Republic manages to keep Sichuan stable and prevents the conscription disasters.
We would still need to somehow address the NRA, but I still think that keeping things somewhat stable and getting Sichuan solidified is more important
 
I think people don't really realize we're already committed. We already told everyone, including the CCP, that they're marching to our tune or else we'll enforce compliance. It's clear from the update we have that compliance right now, but if the GMD challenges us, and we do nothing, that won't last. All that'll do is tell everyone that actually we will blink and now is the time to challenge us, that we won't do anything.

This is completely ignoring the very real threat of the increasingly furious NRA just getting rid of us of course. But I think regardless of that it's still a bad move to allow them to break off with no opposition.

[X] [GMD] Agree to a Southern Expedition against Guangzhou.
[X] KMT - Mainline
 
Fancy Face said:
I think people don't really realize we're already committed. We already told everyone, including the CCP, that they're marching to our tune or else we'll enforce compliance. It's clear from the update we have that compliance right now, but if the GMD challenges us, and we do nothing, that won't last. All that'll do is tell everyone that actually we will blink and now is the time to challenge us, that we won't do anything.

This is completely ignoring the very real threat of the increasingly furious NRA just getting rid of us of course. But I think regardless of that it's still a bad move to allow them to break off with no opposition.

[X] [GMD] Agree to a Southern Expedition against Guangzhou.
[X] KMT - Mainline
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The problem is that we dont actually have the ability to enforce that compliance.

Doing the Southern Expedition and having it fail will make everyone think about how strong we actually are and that failure will mean that we won't actually be able to respond to it.


Allowing their succession is still better than being forced to accept it on the battlefield.


The GMD has 60k standing army with varied quality with the possible option of raising more terrible troops cause they aren't mobilised.

We have negative numbers of spare troops, we have already been forced to strip our northern garrison's just to fulfill our required garrison in Sichuan and it's still a stretch and we are also in the process of demobilising, so we are losing troops.


Attacking into hostile terrain through mountains, with supplies running through Sichuan is a complicating factor too which means that we need to more than match the GMD if we expect success
 
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NSchwerte said:
The problem is that we dont actually have the ability to enforce that compliance.

Doing the Southern Expedition and having it fail will make everyone think about how strong we actually are and that failure will mean that we won't actually be able to respond to it.


Allowing their succession is still better than being forced to accept it on the battlefield.


The GMD has 60k standing army with varied quality with the possible option of raising more terrible troops cause they aren't mobilised.

We have negative numbers of spare troops, we have already been forced to strip our northern garrison's just to fulfill our required garrison in Sichuan and it's still a stretch and we are also in the process of demobilising, so we are losing troops.


Attacking into hostile terrain through mountains, with supplies running through Sichuan is a complicating factor too which means that we need to more than match the GMD if we expect success
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I mean frankly doing nothing is still the worse option here. Our weakness is precisely why we can't afford to let them go without even a limited attempt to bring them to heel, because we're telling everyone to call our bluff.

Also, again, the Legislature are already viewed as basically being incompetents who had to be overriden already. Voting to do nothing in the crisis gives them the pretext needed to just outright remove us.
 
Fancy Face said:
I mean frankly doing nothing is still the worse option here. Our weakness is precisely why we can't afford to let them go without even a limited attempt to bring them to heel, because we're telling everyone to call our bluff.

Also, again, the Legislature are already viewed as basically being incompetents who had to be overriden already. Voting to do nothing in the crisis gives them the pretext needed to just outright remove us.
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What are we going to do once the southern expedition fails and both Liu and the CCP can see that the NRA cannot punish their rebellion and is also weakened by one failure? Especially Liu, who whose revolt would cut off the entire Southern Expedition from Lanzhou
 
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