Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, if not the Ebon Dragon, who could it be?
Some Eldar Harlequins, perhaps?
Mayhap an intrigue woven by one of the true ancients, the Necrontyr of eld? Dear Trazyn, perhaps Orikan?
Some Eldar Harlequins, perhaps?
Mayhap an intrigue woven by one of the true ancients, the Necrontyr of eld? Dear Trazyn, perhaps Orikan?
I disagree with retreating, and also the assumption that it's Malal. He's notoriously purposeless.
I think Cegorach may have done us a solid and sent a Harlequin troupe of pre-Fall Eldar to help us. They're the only Eldar faction that should currently be capable of projecting power.
[X] Interfere and go stop whatever is happening
If they're potential allies we don't want to abandon them and if they're enemies we want to make sure both sides loose.
I think Cegorach may have done us a solid and sent a Harlequin troupe of pre-Fall Eldar to help us. They're the only Eldar faction that should currently be capable of projecting power.
[X] Interfere and go stop whatever is happening
If they're potential allies we don't want to abandon them and if they're enemies we want to make sure both sides loose.
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Biel Tan tried to kill Angron, IIRC, so Eldar intervention is not without a precedent.
Verbal bullying exists
To be precise, I think the third party is disguised in Shadow because they're Shadowseers, Harelquin psykers. The Chaos forces are attacking each other because Shadowseers are masters at projecting illusions into people's minds to misdirect them into targeting allies, and because they throw hallucinogen grenades around to compound this.
What's happening fits Harlequin tactics precisely, emerging from nowhere to cause anarchy and make the enemy fight themselves.
They would have a sense of purpose in a way demons of the Ebon Dragon wouldn't.
As a result, I think it's likely, if not certain, that Cegorach has bailed us out.
Unfortunately that bit of Horus Heresy lore is the result of an author who didn't do the research, as Angron was attacked before the Eldar invented the Paths, before they relearned how to use their psyker powers without being eaten by Slaneesh, before they discovered how to use spirit stones, before the Phoenix Lords, before the Avatars of Khaine could be awakened.
That means the Cratworps Eldar had no aspect warriors, warlocks, Farseers, ability to perform divination to find him or precognition to work out how to, aspect warriors; wraith guard, etc, etc
Originally it was unidentified xenos who attacked Angron, who some speculated to be Eldar, but the Horus Heresy author made that piece of fanon ascend even though it's impossible given what else we know about the Eldar
The writers of the Horus Heresy usually forget that the Fall happened simultaneously with the start of the Great Crusade, and that neither the Dark nor Craftworld Eldar existed in anything resembling their 40K selves in 30K; and didn't for centuries or millenia later, depending on what aspect you're talking about.
Which is understandable on some level. The Horus Heresy game and series is about space marines and primarchs. They just couldn't be bothered to do the work to develop completely new bits of world building based on what the Eldar who lived on the Craftworlds and the Webway would logically have been like.
The only Eldar who are similar to their later selves were the Harlequins, who Cegorach protects.
What's happening fits Harlequin tactics precisely, emerging from nowhere to cause anarchy and make the enemy fight themselves.
They would have a sense of purpose in a way demons of the Ebon Dragon wouldn't.
As a result, I think it's likely, if not certain, that Cegorach has bailed us out.
Unfortunately that bit of Horus Heresy lore is the result of an author who didn't do the research, as Angron was attacked before the Eldar invented the Paths, before they relearned how to use their psyker powers without being eaten by Slaneesh, before they discovered how to use spirit stones, before the Phoenix Lords, before the Avatars of Khaine could be awakened.
That means the Cratworps Eldar had no aspect warriors, warlocks, Farseers, ability to perform divination to find him or precognition to work out how to, aspect warriors; wraith guard, etc, etc
Originally it was unidentified xenos who attacked Angron, who some speculated to be Eldar, but the Horus Heresy author made that piece of fanon ascend even though it's impossible given what else we know about the Eldar
The writers of the Horus Heresy usually forget that the Fall happened simultaneously with the start of the Great Crusade, and that neither the Dark nor Craftworld Eldar existed in anything resembling their 40K selves in 30K; and didn't for centuries or millenia later, depending on what aspect you're talking about.
Which is understandable on some level. The Horus Heresy game and series is about space marines and primarchs. They just couldn't be bothered to do the work to develop completely new bits of world building based on what the Eldar who lived on the Craftworlds and the Webway would logically have been like.
The only Eldar who are similar to their later selves were the Harlequins, who Cegorach protects.
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- Location
- Arcadia
As to intervening, assuming that it is Harlequins, the impending explosion could be their plan. Stopping it could be disrupting their design.
Assuming that nothing changes, those presumed Harlequins could slip away now and let the sequence run its course.
Assuming that nothing changes, those presumed Harlequins could slip away now and let the sequence run its course.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Retreat and let what is happening, happen.
In terms of who this is:
Also, Fan literally just used the Ebon Dragon's power a few minutes before this. He should be very familiar with Ebon Dragon aspected infernal essence because it's part of him.
The Chaos forces could still beat them, or the Chaos Gods could be trying to detonate a bombing a warp bomb to kill a bunch of very, very high value targets. If they have a temporary Webway portal, a big warp bomb might disrupt it.
Given Eldar maturity rates, if these are Harlequins then they're Pre-Fall Eldar worshippers of Cegorach, the last generation of those who could have lived up to tens of thousands of lives over many millions of years, with all the skill, experience, accumulated psyker power and Weight that represents.
Eldar only live a thousand years, and when this generation die of this is the end for them.
Also, Fan literally just used the Ebon Dragon's power a few minutes before this. He should be very familiar with Ebon Dragon aspected infernal essence because it's part of him.
The Chaos forces could still beat them, or the Chaos Gods could be trying to detonate a bombing a warp bomb to kill a bunch of very, very high value targets. If they have a temporary Webway portal, a big warp bomb might disrupt it.
Given Eldar maturity rates, if these are Harlequins then they're Pre-Fall Eldar worshippers of Cegorach, the last generation of those who could have lived up to tens of thousands of lives over many millions of years, with all the skill, experience, accumulated psyker power and Weight that represents.
Eldar only live a thousand years, and when this generation die of this is the end for them.
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- Location
- Arcadia
There is not enough information to say, either way.
Regardless, if the choice is made to intervene, even if Fan Morgal's group somehow manages to stop the explosion, what of the aftermath? How will they escape, especially when they will presumably be even more spent from stopping the explosion?
Regardless, if the choice is made to intervene, even if Fan Morgal's group somehow manages to stop the explosion, what of the aftermath? How will they escape, especially when they will presumably be even more spent from stopping the explosion?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Ah. It is NOT an explosion.
Sorry if this was unclear.
It is a Massive gathering of Warp energy to.....do something.
- Location
- Arcadia
Ah, thank you for the correction.
Hm, it could possibly be the formation of a Warp rift. There is simply not enough information to say.
Hm, it could possibly be the formation of a Warp rift. There is simply not enough information to say.
I think there's enough evidence to largely exclude some options.
They're explicitly not Chaos aligned.
They're almost something not anything from the Exalted setting, as I think Fan would notice if they were using Essence rather than psyker/warp based powers. We're told their signature is unfamiliar, so we can be even more confident they're not Infernal, as Fan is very familiar with Infernal essence, and we could be doubly more confident that they're not aligned with any of the three Yozi whose Essence Fan can reproduce to use their charms, so they're not the Ebon Dragon's demons.
Given who we can rule out, there aren't a huge number of options left for shadowy figures. I strongly doubt they're the Hrud.
Their power armour or Mythos allows them to be physically superhuman. They can just run and trample anyone in their way
Lorgar and Fan can also speak the word Vorien and kill anything that gets in their way, including daemons.
They also don't have to get to the centre of the conflict. Lorgar can use Precog to choose a safe moment to use Telepathy to ask one of the shadowy figures who they are and if they require assistance, for example.
The risk of warp buildup aren't just an explosion but more importantly a warp rift that greater daemons can walk through.
On another note, there are a bunch of loot piñatas down there ready for us to use PIO to turn them into reagents.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
On this. Fan cannot sense that just yet as you do not have the relevant charms for it.
So you do not actually know if they are using Essence or not.
Truthfully, you can only identify if it was supernatural or not due to Awareness/Occult rolls.
But more will require charms.
- Location
- Arcadia
Yes, Essence-Dissecting Stare would have helped to further narrow the possibilities, but it cannot be helped. It will have to wait until next time. Assuming that they live to see a next time...
[X] Retreat and let what is happening, happen.
Something else to consider. Lorgar's Mythos. He's the Social Primarch. I don't think running off and abandoning potential allies who may have come to rescue us to their fate is a way to strengthen his Mythos. Going and teaming up with them and using that as the basis to build a friendship seems much more likely to lead good places.
If they do turn out to have been allies we left to die, this could even be a psychological weak point in future, like the Servitor.
If Chaos gets their act together and kill our potential allies, there probably won't be a next time.
If they do turn out to have been allies we left to die, this could even be a psychological weak point in future, like the Servitor.
If Chaos gets their act together and kill our potential allies, there probably won't be a next time.
[X] Interfere and go stop whatever is happening
The other big issue is that even if we run, the energy build up might be to open a warp rift to the part of the Warp where the Chaos Gods Realms intersect.
Even if we have a headstart we don't want to be pursued and then the survivors besieged by a horde of mounted chaos daemons lead by greater daemons, for example.
We may well be safer trying to shut this down rather than risk a foothold scenario.
Or it could be to do something similarly unpleasant; like turning all the surviving chaos warriors into daemonhosts, or other chaos fuckery.
Even if we have a headstart we don't want to be pursued and then the survivors besieged by a horde of mounted chaos daemons lead by greater daemons, for example.
We may well be safer trying to shut this down rather than risk a foothold scenario.
Or it could be to do something similarly unpleasant; like turning all the surviving chaos warriors into daemonhosts, or other chaos fuckery.
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- Location
- Belgium
[X] Retreat and let what is happening, happen.
RETREAT NOW FOR VICTORY LATER !!
RETREAT NOW FOR VICTORY LATER !!
Actually, @Yzarc, can we quickly use AMI + CCP on one of them to find out who the shadowy figures are, and then on another to find out what they're doing here? Given we have the high ground and the sandstorm doesn't block our vision, we should have line of sight. If we don't, presumably we can fly upwards with MHM while the enemy is distracted and get line of sight.
Another thought. The warp energy build up could be a fourth party, based on this:
Not all the gambits may have been revealed to exist though. There may be other players waiting to to take their turn at the game. This is another reason to stay as that way we can intervene when the next thing happens.
The key thing to think about is who are famous for their gambits. Cegorach is the obvious one, which is one reason why I think the Harlequins are here. Who else is though?
Whoever was pretending to be Kairos Fateweaver?
The Machine God intervening, either in our favour because we're recovering technology or against us because our invention of prayer stealing rituals for the Mechanicum that may starve it of power.
Be'lakor behaving more like his Fantasy counterpart.
A fragment of the future Emperor as Warp God, reaching back in time to ensure their existence as Slaneesh apparently did before the Fall of the Eldar.
Time travelling Raven Guard sent from the future by Corax Awakened.
Trazyn the Infinite, although given it's warp energy this is least likely. He may reveal himself in another
Retreating now may make victory later much harder, if we let what's potentially a hostile force's plan complete.
Another thought. The warp energy build up could be a fourth party, based on this:
Not all the gambits may have been revealed to exist though. There may be other players waiting to to take their turn at the game. This is another reason to stay as that way we can intervene when the next thing happens.
The key thing to think about is who are famous for their gambits. Cegorach is the obvious one, which is one reason why I think the Harlequins are here. Who else is though?
Whoever was pretending to be Kairos Fateweaver?
The Machine God intervening, either in our favour because we're recovering technology or against us because our invention of prayer stealing rituals for the Mechanicum that may starve it of power.
Be'lakor behaving more like his Fantasy counterpart.
A fragment of the future Emperor as Warp God, reaching back in time to ensure their existence as Slaneesh apparently did before the Fall of the Eldar.
Time travelling Raven Guard sent from the future by Corax Awakened.
Trazyn the Infinite, although given it's warp energy this is least likely. He may reveal himself in another
Retreating now may make victory later much harder, if we let what's potentially a hostile force's plan complete.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
If you do not retreat, you can try. Right now? They are not visible enough to trigger it.
