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The Dragon Roars: A KMT Quest

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A diplomatic conference seems prudent. No point in withdrawing from the salient for free when we can restablish trade with Japan for it instead. Besides we're going to have to 🔥 check 🔥 the ma clique soon and not tying our guys in in Operation Clusterfuck II is vital for that
 
VonVonson said:
A diplomatic conference seems prudent. No point in withdrawing from the salient for free when we can restablish trade with Japan for it instead. Besides we're going to have to 🔥 check 🔥 the ma clique soon and not tying our guys in in Operation Clusterfuck II is vital for that
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Ehhh having a very formal meeting where we say we're on this side and you're on this side with Japan leering across the table from us has potential to look more like we're formally giving over our sovereignty whereas the informal drawing back of the lines makes less of a statement. Plus Japan may be something of a wildcard depending on how its voters go. It's great if they're in a trade deal sort of mood so it's like a bonus diplomacy action (and the one I preferred over the USA anyway), but not so great if they need some red meat for nationalists and demand concessions. And I know we don't want to hand over the emperor either which is probably going to be a major question.

Withdrawing the salient now would for sure put us in a more stable condition for our military resources while waiting for a conference and hoping that's one of the options they want could delay that, assuming that's offerred. To me that's somewhat compelling as we have a crunch right now.
 
Wait, why wouldn't we want to hand over the emperor?

Being able to get stuff for him and having him out of our hands is one of the great draws of the conference
 
NSchwerte said:
Wait, why wouldn't we want to hand over the emperor?

Being able to get stuff for him and having him out of our hands is one of the great draws of the conference
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IIRC the thread was pretty resolute in keeping him before since letting him free to get back on a throne makes a lot of people rather cross, but maybe people feel differently now?
 
nachtingale said:
The United Front currently consists of the Shanxi Clique, the Yulin Clique and the Republic. Shaanxi, Zhili and Liu Xiang's governments are de jure RoC administrations. Neither Yan or Jing are particularly keen on having their authority be usurped by Lanzhou, and are content to remain in the UF unless pressured since it means none of their neighbors can really risk war with them.
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Makes sense. Would they be interested in getting closer ties economically while still being a part of the United Front instead? I do remember Yan Xishan allegedly offering his full cooperation to the ZRF's literacy campaign and we are about to start reforms in that area ourselves.
 
nachtingale said:
Maybe, Yan is fairly protectionist in his economic stances, you'll have to offer up something more substantial.
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Would offering our own resources for extending the Republics education reforms towards their territory be sufficient? And in a different question, would cooperation towards combatting the Opium Trade be something they would be interested in? I do notice that Shaanxi and Zhili have enacted a anti-opium campaign on their own next to them, don't know what the status of that is in their lands.
 
A maybe is good enough for me. Well, unless anyone else has an idea for what to put as a write-in I'll just be submitting the following. If anyone else has one they'd like added then ping me and I can add it to the strawpoll.

[] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.

As for my thoughts on the vote, I think I've been convinced towards only inviting Shandong to the United Front considering the trouble it'd be to integrate them and the lack of resources we have to do so while having commitments to do so with Shaanxi as well. Still not so sure about the diplomatic conference, but last time we were approached by just Japan while I think this would involve us talking with Fengtian more.
strawpoll.com

Turn 8.2, A Tale of Three Chinas. - Online Poll - StrawPoll

What's your opinion? Vote now: [] [FENGTIAN] Organize a Major Expedition., [] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference., [] [FENGTIAN] Withdraw from the Jinzhou Salient., [...
strawpoll.com strawpoll.com
 
Kipeci said:
IIRC the thread was pretty resolute in keeping him before since letting him free to get back on a throne makes a lot of people rather cross, but maybe people feel differently now?
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maybe i misunderstood the thread, but at least i didnt vote to give the emperor back because i didnt want to give him up for no gain.

getting rid of the emperor, throwing fengtian into chaos with the regency interrupted and maybe even getting something out of it seems the ideal solution to the problem.

Especially if we could get some normalisation of relations with japan of course
 
We didn't give up the emperor because it'd be massively unpopular too. I don't expect the Fengtian to actually want him back either as they know just as well as we do that it would interrupt their little dual regency setup. It was Japan requesting him from us instead of us talking to Fengtian directly like we would be now. I expect that they very much want us to withdraw from the salient however, given the amount of skirmishing they've engaged in over it.
 
Actually… I wonder if there's any way for us to ensure that some 100% genuine secret letters get out from the captured emperor in favor of whichever jerk we think is more incompetent or more willing to work with us? @nachtingale do we know anything differentiating those factions or is that all very opaque still?
 
NSchwerte said:
maybe i misunderstood the thread, but at least i didnt vote to give the emperor back because i didnt want to give him up for no gain.

getting rid of the emperor, throwing fengtian into chaos with the regency interrupted and maybe even getting something out of it seems the ideal solution to the problem.

Especially if we could get some normalisation of relations with japan of course
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Giving him up means our Legitimacy takes a huge hit. Citizen Puyi is staying in his cell. We can normalize relations with Japan in other ways.
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group

DemCent has spoken.
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Mainline
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Mainline
 
8 to conference, 4 to withdraw. 8 to UF, 4 to autonomous province. 5 to write-in, 1 to not.

[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Mainline

Lots of things happening at the same time. I like it.
 
[x] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Mainline
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Mainline
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Independents
 
[X] [FENGTIAN] Organize Another Diplomatic Conference.
[X] [ZHANG] Invite them to the United Front.
[X] [Write-in] Offer the United Front the extension of the Republics education reforms to their territory in exchange for closer economic ties.
[X] KMT - Independents
 
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