In FF8, draw points sort of replace treasure chests, but like Mako they're magic you can find in the environment. But... is there any lore for them, like at all? Should we just treat them with the same credulousness that we treat finding the perfect new weapon in some rando's basement? How is it that a place where SeeDs can draw Ultima has no political relevance? It seems like an opportunity was lost, here.
In this case it has been pointed out as a hidden point that does not regenerate, so you already need a GF with the skill to sense it or something equivalent and it is a one time thing.
As for thematically, well I do note that this is a group of former people who made powerful military hardware. It is possible it relates to that somehow, maybe something they took with them is giving off an aura of ultimate destruction despite their efforts otherwise.
It's interesting that the very most (overall) modern setting in final fantasy so far, is also the one where magic just mechanically... comes from the land. In GFs in places like the tomb of the unknown king, or fire cavern, and magic is just... around for the taking for those that know how.
But as long as magic and GF's and draw points aren't narratively integrated, what is there to say about it? Is there a tech/magic, or urban/rural, coexistence/exploitive dynamic like FF7 did? I don't think it has.
You could make draw points thematic. Like, you're drawing on memories etched into the place itself, on glories of old battles and ghost of old regrets haunting the place and so on, crystalized into spells (which then ties into the forgotten memory issues caused by GFs: junction allows you to draw on your own memories to cast spells, sacrificing memories of pain and anger to conjure up fire and the like). It wouldn't even take that much, just some flavor text to accompany draw points, maybe a cutscene to emphasize especially meaningful ones.
But the game doesn't do it.
Honestly, it's worse than FFVII, which at least had materia as an established part of the setting, it just conspicuously refused to show them being used in cutscenes, but still at least acknowledged their existence and importance to people. In FFVIII, magic exists only within gameplay, aside from the sorceress' effects. It's weird.
...those don't look like parabolic solar panels, those look like a parabolic mirror array. Of the kind used to direct a large area of sunlight into a single point so as to derrive electrical power from the resulting heat of that point.
...a point which appears to be the mayor's house. Man likes to keep his house toasty, I suppose (how is it not on fire).
Nah, the point of focus for a parabola isn't on the arc itself. So instead, a point a dozen feet above the Mayor's house occasionally fries an unlucky seagull.
Nah, the point of focus for a parabola isn't on the arc itself. So instead, a point a dozen feet above the Mayor's house occasionally fries an unlucky seagull.
Back in the day, I quit on FF8 because the game was just not fun to play. I don't know if it was the Junction system (it was probably the Junction system tbh) or what, but I couldn't get into it. And even watching an LP of it, from an LPer I usually very much enjoy (HCBailly) I still found myself...bored with it and struggled to finish the LP. Because, well, it turns out the game was also just not fun to watch.
But I feel like this format, a written summation with screengrabs of important/humorous bits, might actually let me enjoy the game - or at least, the story it's trying to tell. Because I get to really focus on the story and get all the insights I probably glossed over before (whether playing or watching) because I just wasn't enjoying it.
So thank you @Omicron for taking on the burden of this project and maybe, just maybe letting me enjoy FF8 in some kind of way.
So I'm circling back to this post of mine because I can say, despite the LP not being finished, @Omicron is definitely succeeding. Squall is a way more interesting and complex character than I ever gave him credit for, thanks to Omi's analysis and focus, and I'm enjoying the other character work as well. So yes, it would seem that I can find some enjoyment in FF8 after all.
Does it make me want to play it? Well, no. I still think the mechanics are too big of a turn off for me. But I can at least enjoy the story vicariously through our thread creator now, and am seeing all kinds of new and interesting sides to it that I never did before.
In this case it has been pointed out as a hidden point that does not regenerate, so you already need a GF with the skill to sense it or something equivalent and it is a one time thing.
As for thematically, well I do note that this is a group of former people who made powerful military hardware. It is possible it relates to that somehow, maybe something they took with them is giving off an aura of ultimate destruction despite their efforts otherwise.
It's also worth noting that, due to the way the spherical Final Fantasy VIII world map works, FH is actually one of the two poles. So, it makes sense to have something special in the very middle of it, from a geographical perspective.
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Final Fantasy VIII, Part 18.5 Appendix: Fisherman's Horizon Missable ContentNew
Welcome back, class, to Final Fantasy VIII 201. Today's lesson:
Fisherman's Horizon Lore
Now, before we start, we have a little housecleaning to. That will require us to rewind time. No big deal.
It turns out Fisherman's Horizon has a bunch of missable content. Some of it is fairly out of the way, and a bunch of it is apparently narrowly time restricted. Like, in a sane game, it'd be fine to just do the main plot beat in town, then hang out and do the rest of the sidequest. But Final Fantasy has historically had a loose conception of what a 'side quest' is and how it should work. So for this, we'll reload to before the Iron Clad fight.
It's interesting, actually. The basic structure of modern side quest design is so ubiquitous that you almost don't even think about it anymore. You have a conversation, that conversation points something out to you, you get something written in a menu you can check as a reminder of what you're supposed to do, and you have a clear objective. Here, this 'side quest' occurs entirely in the form of talking to several persons multiple times without any prompt to make you know they have updated dialogue, or indeed any reminder there should be anything at all remarkable about them. It's very… archaic, yes, but more than that, it stems from a game design philosophy where story content and gameplay rewards are intended as hidden incentives to reward obsessive players who double check everything at all times and those who buy guides, rather than an organic experience of play.
So what's this 'side quest' about?
The same old fisherman who got spooked when Garden crashed into the city can be found there, at the same fishing spot. That fishing spot requires an incredibly missable ladder that doesn't appear clearly in the environment and is difficult to find the invisible interaction spot for. Then we go down a couple of screens and find this guy, who complains about the fishing spots destroyed by the Garden. Squall apologizes on behalf of the Garden, and after grumbling a bit, the old man says it's fine and he is a master who can fish anywhere in the world, then gives us Occult Fan III, another magazine.
…a magic ring that can summon a GF if you have 666 items, huh? We'll keep a look out for it.
The old man then asks us to go check on his disciple, a young kid elsewhere in town, whom he refers to as a "lonely twerp" - I get the impression this old man is rather acerbic even towards people he likes. This is the same Fisherkid who in a previous interaction broke a window in the nearby store launching his line. We head there, and he plays out the same interaction he did last time, breaking a window. Then we talk to him again, and he asks us if we met the old man fishing by the port; we can answer that we did and were 'impressed,' and the kid gushes about how he's the disciple of that old man and how he's so cool, and not "a loser, like some people said." His resolve reinvigorated, he tosses his line again… and breaks something inside the shop again. Talking to him again results in him trying again and leads to the game dipping into straight up black comedy:
He nearly hangs the shopkeeper to death by catching his neck in his fishing lines.
Thankfully Squall steps in, cutting the line (although he doesn't draw his gunblade; he instead plays out his Draw animation). The shopkeeper finally has had enough and yells at the kid so hard, his speech turns first yellow, then red. Very fun use of the text-based dialogue's unique property to sell intensity there. The kid is distraught, but stops throwing his fishing line around, at least.
Now for the next part, we have to progress the main quest again. Before we do, though, let's engage in some card games.
Mayor Dobe has the Quezacotl Card, which I missed the first time around. We take it off him, then challenge Martine a bunch - turns out in addition to Ifrit, the former headmaster has a ton of gold-bordered boss cards he keeps playing. I rob a bunch off him and honestly I could keep playing for more Cards to Refine into items I can then Refine into broken spells, but we have to move on at some point. Blow up the Iron Clad, reunite with the group, get the better dialogue with Rinoa this time…
This guy here told us last time that he was a Balamb Native who had traveled the world before ending up here. Talking to him more than once, however, has him expand on his story, with most notably the sad note that he didn't find or learn anything in his travels, didn't grow from them, just made his parents worried. This leads to Squall making an unusual realization:
He actually recognizes this guy from somewhere.
I love that Squall did manage to remember he knew the guy, but it took him several minutes of conversation, and he still can misremember who he's talking to. This is the cafeteria lady's son; Squall informs the guy that Balamb Garden is that huge thing that just parked by the docks, and that his mother was worried about him (I think referencing some dialogue from long enough ago that I don't remember it), and the guy heads off to see his mom. Another good deed!
Back at the shopkeeper and fisherkid, their skit continues with the kid insisting he'll get it right this time and the shopkeeper seeing disaster coming and fleeing from his store to avoid the devastation. However, for the first time, the kid manages a successful throw.
After that, we head back to the master fisherman to report that his disciple finally succeeded in his work. The Master makes some amused comments about his disciple getting Squall to run around the place; Squall is a little annoyed and the old man comments that he 'doesn't let people in' because he has 'too much pride.'
Squall: ".....Yeah, maybe."
I love the growth of Self-Aware Squall.
The man apologizes for teasing him and makes a comment about how it's the new generation's time to run the show now. Squall is dismissive, and the old man asks to meet him at the inn so he can give him a 'lecture.'
This is the Icicle Inn Lore of this game, is what it is. I mean it's maybe not as important, but this entire section is huge in terms of world building info, and completely missable.
The old fisherman produces a holographic recording of a young Mayor Dobe addressing what must be a kind of parliament of Esthar. It turns out he wasn't just some scientist or engineer; he was a major political figure, who can be seen in this recording advocating for peace, in vain. (The hologram gets pretty emotional in its pleas.)
Master Fisherman: "...He sure was a rebel, putting himself on the line trying to change Esthar." Master Fisherman: "You know about Esthar? It's the wonderland at the end of the tracks. You mighta heard this already, but most of the people here used to be skilled hands, technicians from Esthar. I tell ya, they were full of life in the beginning. Everyone looked forward to building the Esthar of their dreams." Master Fisherman: "...But eventually, they got sidetracked from their dreams, and a lot of the focus started goin' to military stuff. Dobey and his buddy tried to get back on track, but to no avail. So some decided to build their dreamland elsewhere. That's how Fisherman's Horizon came about." Master Fisherman: "Dobey was against leaving Esthar and debated till the bitter end. Ironically, he's here now. Lot of time has passed since, but the man is still obsessed with talking things out." Master Fisherman: "...Can't blame the guy. It's all he knows. I'm just happy he came here. Now he's our leader." Master Fisherman: "Now Esthar's changed and so has FH. All this kinda changed your views 'bout this dingy place, didn't it? It won't be in the history books, but this little place was built on dreams. …That's all I wanted to share. How 'bout keepin' me company a little longer?"
That's fascinating. Before we get to actually see Esthar for ourselves, we learn so much about it. And previously we only saw it as this strange, mystical, menacing place that was once ruled by a sorceress and sent freaky cyborgs to abduct girls and waged war on all the world. But this shows so much more… Humanity and internal dissent. But in the end that dissent didn't manage to pull Esthar from its path, and all these people fled the country as conscientious objectors. It's interesting - both Esthar and Galbadia faced dissent during the rise of their respective sorceresses, but they manifested very differently; a political peace movement in Esthar, a military conspiracy attempting a palace coup in Galbadia.
We agree to follow the old man, and we get a neat little vignette scene of following him across a couple of screens where he runs into townsfolk who show that this old, seemingly washed up fisherman (although we never really got any implication that he was washed up and seen negatively by the town outside of a single dialogue line, it could have used more setup) is actually a respected local figure.
He basically scolds the drunkard into finding a renewed conviction to give up on the bottle, which I think is meant to be inspirational in a 'this guy really will kick the habit now that he had The Talk' sense, a young woman calls him 'so charming,' the boatman greets him in a friendly way and calls him 'boss,' as does everyone, the drunkard and the shopkeeper.
Shopkeeper: "How are you, boss!? You never come here… Did something happen?" Master Fisherman: "I might as well introduce them. This is my good old friend and former colleague. Now he's got a screw loose and is runnin' some weird shop, am I right?" Master Fisherman: [Here, something happens that I don't understand; his next dialogue line is in a transparent dialogue box and ends on an upside down red triangle symbol I have not seen before.]
Master Fisherman: "And the brat over there grew up in FH. He's becoming a bigger brat everyday, causing bigger problem." Fisherkid/Shopkeeper: "What the…?" Fisherkid: "And you're mean, foul mouthed-" Shopkeeper: "And you're the biggest bum in FH!" Master Fisherman: "Ah SHUT UP, the both of ya!" Fisherkid: "Yeah, yeah, I won." Shopkeeper: "I can go on forever."
This is a fun beat but it also relates directly to Squall's character growth? The characters who are most personally familiar with 'the boss', who (as we'll find out soon) have the most respect for him, are also the ones who are most ready to rip into him when he does his acerbic putdown bit. This is mirroring Squall's development where as his teammates get to know him and bond with him they also start giving him shit for the bad aspects of his behavior!
Anyway, the Shopkeeper informs us the Master Fisherman was known as 'The Engineer' in Esthar, like with a particle and a capital letter; he was so skilled he personally engineered the train of expats out of Esthar, he came up with the name 'Fisherman's Horizon', and who convinced everyone that if they couldn't build their dream there, they should build it somewhere else. At one point during the voyage, he sat to fish, and that's where the name came from.
Shopkeeper: "Right boss!?" Master Fisherman: "You still gotta good heart old friend, and a mouth that goes on babbling." Shopkeeper: "Heh heh heh. That's why you love me, right?" Master Fisherman: "Some things never change."
It's a cute bit. It is then followed by a comedy beat as Squall is now actually invested enough to ask why 'Fisherman's Horizon,' specifically, like what is it supposed to mean, and the Fisherman and the Shopkeeper get into a fight because the Shopkeeper thought there was some deep meaning to it and is now realizing that his friend just thought it sounded cool and he's now trying to deflect and say there totally was a greater meaning.
At which point Squall actually bails him out with a line of total bullshit.
Squall: "I thought it was because you were fishing for a dream somewhere out on the distant horizon." Master Fisherman: "...Y-Yeah! Oh yeah, that's right! I told you that before, huh? I forgot about that."
I love this absolute cryptid who will randomly decides he likes you enough to back up your lie with total bullshit with a completely straight face.
At the end of it, the old man finally confesses that he has no idea how he came up with the name, and in one last interaction, he gives us a Megalixir. Score!
Now, let's further our re-exploration of FH. Remember that Grease Monkey guy in the shack with the Moomba figurine? If we visit him specifically while Irvine is with Squall…
A Galbadian Officer is trying to shake down that poor mechanic to get him to repair the Iron Clad.
My guy, that thing tanked a nuclear explosion and had cracks in its outer shell before I blew it up a third time. It's not… It's just not gonna work, man. When we approach him, he recognizes us as SeeDs but proceeds to sneer and boast that he's here to fix the Iron Clad and once he does it we're totally dead. Squall mocks the Iron Clad as a "piece of junk" not worth repairing and ask the guy to "step outside."
You know. To discuss this politely between gentlemen away from the mechanic guy's fragile workshop. The officer acts outrage, shouting about settling this with multiple exclamation points, and lets us go out first.
When we move to the next screen, nothing happens. When we move back into the shop…
It turns out the guy jumped out of the window like a coward.
A coward with good survival instinct, at least.
The Grease Monkey rewards us with a rare Mega Phoenix, and now we're finally finished wit-h that leg of Fisherman's Horizon.
This is so much to squirrel away in a hidden spot. It's not just a ton of lore about FH and Esthar, it's also just some genuinely sweet character interaction, and also a funny skit with a huge rare reward. Wild stuff, and extremely time sensitive.
So now, let's check the other missing branch:
Selphie's diary!
This isn't really something I will give the game shit about, because it does literally say 'hey btw Selphie has been updating her diary all game,' it just doesn't tell you where to find it, but it's decent signaling and stumbling on it after all this time makes you go "wow!" while stumbling on it earlier by being thorough would make you feel "wow, I'm smart!"
Oh my god. The aesthetic.
This is… so… Selphie. Good Lord. and she did all of it herself - the last time we visited that page, it was a blank page with a goodbye note by the previous head of the festival committee.
The Garden Festival Committee entry is a simple note by Selphie that there sadly probably won't be a festival this year, but she is still looking for members for next year, and hasn't given up on this year yet.
The "My Friends" entry is just… Adorable.
Diary: I made a friend! I think I'll have my friends write stuff directly in here. I thought I'd have our leader Squall go first, but then I realized he'd never do that… So here's the order… Diary's latest entry: How you all doin'? This is Irvine Kinneas. Selphie asked me if I could write something. How could I refuse? Well, I'm here from Galbadia Garden due to personal reasons. I think I fit in quite well. What do you all think? With so many cuties here, I look forward to gettin' up in the mornings. Diary (probably Selphie): (You seem like a good guy but… I don't know…)
IRVINE USING THE GARDEN FESTIVAL TAB AS A DATING APP. THE ABSOLUTE FUCKBOIEST.
But of course, the pièce de résistance is "My Diary," which contains Selphie's… entire experience of the game so far.
Like, I can't just transcribe the whole thing, but it's just… Incredibly peppy about everything. Also, Selphie doesn't seem to understand that computers have a 'backspace' key. Or that you can edit messages before posting them.
Diary: Well, we received a new order at Galbadia Garden, but I don't think I can write that here. Based on the outcome, well… We failed again. The enemy's way too strong! Booyaka! Our target was Sorceress Edea. (Oops, I wrote it…) Hmm… The most recent and infamous sorceress is Adel, right? The sorceress behind the Sorceress War, back when we were kids…? We learned in history class that Sorceress Adel disappeared and the war just kinda ended, right? A sorceress inherits the power from another sorceress, so I think Edea's the one that received Adel's powers.
"Booyaka," incidentally, is Selphie's 'fetch.' As in it's the catchphrase she is trying to make happen, at least in this diary - she hasn't mentioned it in conversation, but she uses it several times there. Our girl has even less of a filter in writing than she does out loud, it's impressive. She does confirm how the party escaped - they jumped into the Iron Clad, which turned out sufficiently tough to survive the explosion, but unfortunately it locked up afterwards and so all they could do was sit in it while the Galbadian Army retrieved it and gave it combat orders.
As for earlier entries into the diary, Selphie recaps everything she's been through with her particular slant (she notably seems to think Seifer was nice to us and likes him); she tells us that she transferred to Balamb because it's the only place you can become SeeD, with Trabia only having a 'written exam' and not a field exam. She's also… Hm.
In her list of worries, she lists: anxiety about meeting other people and whether they'll be nice at #2, the Garden Festival at #3, but #1 is…
Selphie: Worry #1: Side effects of GF. I've been studying up on the GF 'cause I know I'll be using more of it now that I'm a SeeD. Am I going to lose my memories?
This is a rare reminder that the memory loss wasn't just a one off mentioned once in a log, but something the student body actually worries about - especially Selphie, who wasn't raised at BGU but instead made an active choice to transfer here and expose herself to that danger. It's quite fascinating.
Also.
The Timber Maniacs magazine.
Which I have been gathering throughout the whole game and which have never had a meaningful impact aside from one Laguna cutscene changing slightly, and only give out the same message saying you finished the magazine every time.
They were here all along.
She took a picture of herself standing on the same stage she saw Laguna approach Julia.
This is 'Sir Laguna's Page' and it contains all the Timber Maniacs entries with comments by Selphie. Every page appears to contain an article rendered on the pre-rendered background layer (not the text boxes) which, as far as I can tell, has a title that looks English and a body that is, at the very least, using the Latin alphabet; unfortunately, my emulator footage does not have a resolution good enough to read it, and any footage of the Remastered version of the Diary I can find online is, if anything, even more low-definition. So all we have to go on is Selphie's summary of each article - which are all, it seems, letters or articles that Laguna sent to Timber Maniacs that were actually published! Our man did eventually fulfill his journalist dreams to at least some extent!
Also this confirms that Selphie has a total crush on Laguna, whom she exclusively calls "Sir Laguna" and whom she describes as "such a hunk."
These are, I am pretty sure, articles from after our last flashback. For instance, here:
Selphie: This is a hotel in Timber. It's full of Galbadian soldiers. You'll still find soldiers there, but this a little too much, huh? Yes, this is a picture of when Timber was occupied by Galbadia. Sir Laguna tried to stay at this hotel, but it was used to house soldiers. Why are these articles from that period? That's because that was the period when Laguna actually wrote the articles. So, all the magazines with Laguna's articles are all old and worn out. I wonder how old Sir Laguna is now? I betcha he's a dandy old guy?
So, yeah; these articles dates from after Laguna stopped being a soldier, but also from after he left Winhill where he stayed for his entire recovery time after the incident at the Centra Mining Facility. Which means they are from after we last met him. He did go out into the world after all, and he did write traveling articles for Timber Maniacs. You fulfilled your dream, Laguna; good on you.
…
I have a sort of suspicion?
There are, so far, seven articles I can identify from the picture illustrating them:
Selphie's intro
Laguna getting lost and ending up in Dollet while looking for a path to Esthar
Laguna at the Centra Mining Facility
The Timber Hotel above
Our very first shot of Esthar, in an article where Laguna actually did reach the futuristic city, though Selphie mentions ominously "I hear now, there's nothing on the continent where Esthar is."
Laguna standing on a rock facing the sea after getting lost in Esthar(again).
Laguna in the Balamb Hotel, where he wishes to stay but ran out of money.
Esthar.
This is a visual pun. Do you get it? Laguna is looking at a lagoon.
I love it. It's a travelogue! Laguna "Anthony Bourdain!" Loire!
I do wonder, though. We haven't seen Laguna in a while, and… Hm.
Basically, I'm wondering if these Timber Maniac logs aren't there as a stand-in for cut content. If we weren't originally meant to actually go on those trips with Laguna in further flashback sequences, watching him visit Esthar and whatnot, but then dev time got too short to implement them and so they defaulted to these to tell us 'btw Laguna went on all these journeys.'
No way to know, for now. But it's nice to know he got to live out his dream.
And with this, we have come back to the present.
Last time, Squall was in bed after Cid made him the leader and he instantly came down with a depressive episode. This time, we're controlling Irvine!
Selphie has decided to hold the concert after all, with the newly rebuilt stage. Not just for them, but for Squall, to congratulate him for his promotion. Everyone thinks this sounds fun.
Until Selphie explains that they are going to be the ones performing, at which point Quistis immediately attempts to bail claiming she has no musical ability and Zell scoffs at the very idea. But Selphie insists: They can do it, all she needs is four performers. Rinoa is the only one fully enthusiastic, which makes it kind of funny when Selphie informs her she's the only one who's not going to be in the band. They have something "more important for her to do."
…are they going to set her up with Squall on a real date? Is that what Selphie is planning? I wouldn't put it past her. Zell says they're all amateurs who can't do anything by just being handed an instrument, and Selphie launches into a quasi-nonsequitur explanation.
When she took over the festival production after her transfer from Trabia, the last producer, who was quitting, gave her the composition that had been planned for the festival. However, everything got jumbled when the Garden started moving. There was originally one composition, made up of four scores (one for each instrument). However, a second composition, the one that wasn't meant for the festival, also made up of 4 scores, got mixed up into it. So we have 8 scores in no order, made up of the 4 scores of two separate compositions. In order to perform the right composition, we will need to isolate the four scores by playing them, and sorting them by ear into two buckets until we have the right composition.
This looks like this:
Each character arrives in turn, and can be made to perform the four pieces (we can have them perform each composition as many times as we want; all characters play identically, there is no 'Quistis has to play the Guitar because Zell is better at the Bass). We need to give each character an instrument (with the corresponding piece), resulting in a final composition.
There are, therefore, three possible outcomes: 1) We get the correct composition; 2) We get the other composition that got mixed into it but still get its 4 scores, so we perform the 'wrong' piece but still perform a correct piece; 3) We get any other combo of 4 scores resulting in an abominable jumble of parts not meant to go together.
Simple, right? It's a really cool concept, and I especially like the way each character goes on stage, with a full animation playing their instrument and everyone sitting on… the quad…
No, wait, that's not the quad, this is the Mayor's house. They moved the stage there? Bizarre. Anyway, everyone is chilling and listening to each other play.
…
I can't do it.
There is absolutely no way I will pull this off.
This is all those comments I made in the past about me having no musical ear coming home to roost. I have listened to all the scores; by the time I reached "Bass Guitar," I had already forgotten what the "Guitar" part sounded like. Re-listening to "Guitar," I found myself having no recollection of what "Piano" sounded like at all. If this was a modern video game UI, in which every piece played instantly the moment you launched it and you could transition seamlessly, I might be able to do it; but this is a PSX game, and there are delays between each action. You have to select in the menu, wait for the screen to fade to black, Zell appears on stage, the guitar appears, Zell plays. Each part is very slow, and you control Irvine during them; you have to get up and talk to Zell (or whoever) to get a dialogue prompt for him to stop, then get the menu back. I basically have forgotten what the Guitar part sound like by the time I'm in the menu again. It's completely hopeless. It's not just a struggle against my lack of musical ear, it's a struggle against my ADHD that is asking me to do anything, anything at all but go through a 12th slow-ass 'play this music then stop' sequence.
So I do the natural thing to do for someone with ADHD in that situation.
Get distracted and wander off.
It turns out that, while we have control of Irvine, we can just… Leave. Go out and visit FH.
This is a little less impressive than I thought at first; most of the dialogue we get is unchanged from when Squall is the leader. There is just that remark where Irvine wonders where 'everyone' is, here specifically meaning the three NPCs that normally hang out on this one screen; the rest of the town is there as usual.
However, if we go back to that Grease Monkey's shack in the very, very narrow slice of time when Irvine is 'party leader'...
…the Galbadian Officer is back.
When Irvine approaches to address him and ask him what he's up to, the officer turns around, goes 'it's just you' and starts sneering again.
So hey. Remember how during the Selphie chapter, we got that fun beat where it turns out we can always see the thoughts of the party leader, so when we changed to Selphie we got to see her inner monologue that we never saw before and it shed some light on her character?
Galbadian Officer: "I was gonna get the Iron Clad fixed, but it doesn't matter anymore. I'm gonna take you out right here." Irvine, mentally: "(Oh, man. He's really pissed off.)" Galbadian Officer: "You're not goin' anywhere 'till I wring your neck." Irvine, mentally: "(He sounds serious… Better make a run for it.)"
IT TURNS OUT IRVINE IS ALSO A HUGE FUCKING COWARD.
Irvine: "Well, it was good seeing you! By now!" Galbadian Officer: "What!!!? Where do you think you're going!?" [At this point, his dialogue changes to red letters of incandescent rage.] Step outside! Right now!" Irvine: "Oh, come on, man. Give me a break. I'm really tired."
God. I mean, it could also be that he's just lazy. Or that unlike Squall, he's not fully inured to killing (we saw some shades of this before, of course, with the botched assassination) and wants to avoid fights when he can. But it's just incredibly funny that this SeeD, this super powerful magical mercenary who has been wiping the floor with Galbadian Officers like this one all game, sees him getting really angry and instantly wants to bail. Talking to the officer once more has his anger intensify to the point of not being just red but flashing.
Still, when we step out, he doesn't follow. Head back in and…
…the Grease Monkey knocked him on the head while he was distracted with going after us.
Irvine: "Wow! How did you beat him?" Grease Monkey: "Ahh, he was nothing. Oh, I got something for you. Here."
[Received Phoenix Down!] Irvine, mentally: "(Oh… It's not the 'Mega' type…)" Grease Monkey: "Well, I'll be seeing ya."
The mechanic guy sees Irvine being a huge coward and downgrades his reward to merely a normal phoenix down. This is perfect gameplay-story comedy integration.
There is actually a real reward here; we have to interact with the officer's body while heading out, and Irvine will receive Fast Ammo, AP Ammo, and Pulse Ammo - all items which he uses during his Limit Break, so this is a reward for specifically him, which is a good use of that kind of solo character sections.
However, as a minor note that I thought even a veteran might miss: You can fuck up that reward by leaving too fast. When I clicked with the officer's body, the message telling me I was getting "Fast Ammo" showed up, but I was already out the door before "Pulse Ammo" and "AP Ammo" showed up… And they did not appear in my inventory. I had to actually reload to get them. Wild stuff.
And this concludes the Irvine ADHD Escapade. I did put the game on 50x speed to explore Garden to check for unique dialogue, but aside from the cafeteria lady's son, who moved back into BGU and said he's decided to help at the cafeteria, which I assume will still be there when we visit with Squall, there is no unique dialogue for controlling Irvine that I could see.
There is, however, one very neat touch for those going to these lengths to check…
…we can see Squall moping in bed, as usual atop the sheets in full clothes, and interact with him; he doesn't say anything.
Looking from that perspective, controlling someone else and watching him, makes him look so oddly vulnerable.
And that's it! Short update today, but since I got through it all at about 1am and it's fairly self contained, so I figured, no point in just holding off on it and waiting two days until I've had another session with the game and then wrote down my thoughts on the next part.
Everything you just read about can be completely missed in a playthrough. With the exception of Selphie's Diary which I had a hunch about and don't really consider missable content in the same way (you have to be thinking about checking out the computer at some point in the next 10-20 hours), I would have missed it without the thread pointing me to them. How do you feel about this? Is this bad game design, or is it rewarding thoroughness, curiosity and multiple playthroughs? Would games today benefit for more of this approach, or is the question itself made moot by the rise of wikis? I'm curious about your thoughts on this but also, of course, the update itself as usual.
Thank you for reading.
Next Time: Omicron fights the devil of lack of inner ear and probably just looks up an answer to the right selection of parts online or something.
I have very, very faint literally-over-2-decades-old memories that say the "correct" piece is a romantic slow song and the "incorrect" piece is an Irish jig, but looking at that list of instruments something tells me my memory is playing tricks on me
I have very, very faint literally-over-2-decades-old memories that say the "correct" piece is a romantic slow song and the "incorrect" piece is an Irish jig, but looking at that list of instruments something tells me my memory is playing tricks on me
I think you have it backwards actually, but both scenes really deserve examination.
Unsurprisingly, the Most Remixed Music in the game is one of the options as well, although I expect someone else is going to have to take over for Omi in 'musical motifs and theming' department, even though his audio is playing correctly this time.
I have to ask, what the hell is Tap? My first thought is that maybe it's another name for drums (which is surprisingly not on the list) but I don't know.
…are they going to set her up with Squall on a real date? Is that what Selphie is planning? I wouldn't put it past her. Zell says they're all amateurs who can't do anything by just being handed an instrument, and Selphie launches into a quasi-nonsequitur explanation.
Shame that Squall isn't around to give his Leadership bonus to the group, he'd say something like 'infiltrating a party as the band might be required for a mission, you all should be able to pick this up quickly'
I also note there's no Vocalist option, so they're clearly holding that spot open for someone.
I think I had the same trouble when it came to music sheet stuff, at this scene. Ended up just googling the answer, as my own ability to tell music styles apart is just as atrophied.
There's a weird beat where two of the FH locals are labeled in dialogue boxes as "Familiar Face" and "Familiar Face #2," and one of them berates Squall for not recognizing him
This keeps happening, and while it's ambiguous as to whether Squall is just really face blind, I wonder if the game is trying to telegraph memory problems given Selphie's diary entry worrying about it.
I'm going to be honest, I kind of hope the possession theory isn't true, just because I'm a sucker for characters who change so much they become unrecognizable to their past selves. But it's looking like it's going that way.
He's got a Moomba figuring and a giant flag, country unclear. And the flag is sitting behind a desk on a raised stage - some kind of political activist? Organizer?
What with the whole "the Gardens are actually repurposed old tech/bunkers" info we've gotten over the last few updates, it's probably less "constructed" and more "contracted for the paint job and some touch ups".
I wonder how Cid got in contact with them to do the renovations? Did he tell them what he was going to use the place for or is this part of the reason the Mayor wants them to leave immediately? Are they fine with military engineering as long as it doesn't arrive on their commune? (Probably not, given their origin as conscientious objectors, but it's something I'm thinking about). And since Cid didn't know it would move, that means the engineers must have left Fisherman's Horizon to do it. I'm intrigued by the implications of this.
The FH people make more sense when you see them as ex-soldiers who decided to retreat from the world due to PTSD. Yeah the mayor hasn't thought this through, but the whole idea is about never having to think about the problem ever again.
The old fisherman produces a holographic recording of a young Mayor Dobe addressing what must be a kind of parliament of Esthar. It turns out he wasn't just some scientist or engineer; he was a major political figure, who can be seen in this recording advocating for peace, in vain.
Ex-soldiers (well, scientists and engineers) of Esthar, no less. The pacifism is called naive, but it makes a kind of sense not just from the perspective of having this background, but also being from the state that was, until recently, the fascist aggressor. It's a reluctance to pick up the sword again after having done so much to put it down, mixed with that uncomfortable history.
Squall's reaction to it is interesting too. It's been pointed out he's very introspective in a way that isn't just retreating into his head when people talk to him. I wonder how much he's been ruminating on the Laguna flashbacks in this regard, in addition to everything else.
In FF8, draw points sort of replace treasure chests, but like Mako they're magic you can find in the environment. But... is there any lore for them, like at all? Should we just treat them with the same credulousness that we treat finding the perfect new weapon in some rando's basement? How is it that a place where SeeDs can draw Ultima has no political relevance? It seems like an opportunity was lost, here.
...those don't look like parabolic solar panels, those look like a parabolic mirror array. Of the kind used to direct a large area of sunlight into a single point so as to derrive electrical power from the resulting heat of that point.
God. I mean, it could also be that he's just lazy. Or that unlike Squall, he's not fully inured to killing (we saw some shades of this before, of course, with the botched assassination) and wants to avoid fights when he can.
I'll offer two more additions to the coward soup: he's a long-range guy without backup, not a fist fighter, and he's in pacifist town. I fully believe if pressed he'd say something about keeping his face pretty for the ladies, too.
It might have been to sell guides, but I think this sort of thing helps add texture to a game world. I'm still seeing Disco Elysium screenshots of things I haven't encountered in my life. The solution to the wiki problem is kind of fun there; just so much wordcount it's impossible to catalogue without basically reproducing all the text completely. Speaking of wikis, it's interesting the extent to which they do or don't replace word of mouth; more accurate information, but also less regard for spoilers. I do think it's a shame that guides are largely a thing of the past; there's a thought percolating in my head about how video games, theatre, ARGs, and ergotic texts are all sort of shaking hands and all lend themselves well to paratext. In this framework TTRPGs basically are paratext for the game you actually end up running; the Railroad Tycoon guide foamy linked was surprisingly reminiscent to how they approach things.
It shouldn't come at the expense of the majority of the game that people will see (like the 'main plot' shouldn't require this kind of deep digging to function or progress, and there's only so much time and money in the world), and it's more resource-intensive to pull off in some genres more than others, but I think it's neat. It's fun to go somewhere and realize not only the devs thought you might, but put something there for you. While it's frustrating for things to be time locked, it does convey a sense of motion in the world if done well.
In this framework TTRPGs basically are paratext for the game you actually end up running; the Railroad Tycoon guide foamy linked was surprisingly reminiscent to how they approach things.
Everything you just read about can be completely missed in a playthrough. With the exception of Selphie's Diary which I had a hunch about and don't really consider missable content in the same way (you have to be thinking about checking out the computer at some point in the next 10-20 hours), I would have missed it without the thread pointing me to them. How do you feel about this? Is this bad game design, or is it rewarding thoroughness, curiosity and multiple playthroughs? Would games today benefit for more of this approach, or is the question itself made moot by the rise of wikis? I'm curious about your thoughts on this but also, of course, the update itself as usual.
I've been experiencing a lot of this with Trail's lately, especially playing the older games in comparison with the newer one's.
I'd say overall I enjoy side-content, as someone who does in fact talk to every NPC every time I play a game generally speaking, but there's limits.
Talking multiple times in a certain order usually hits that limit because unless they specifically mentioned or telegraphed it, then I'll miss it which annoys me.
I often enjoy games more running completely blind, but it also conflicts with my competitionist side especially in 100+ hour RPG's. I find the best compromise for myself is just pulling up a checklist, and scanning to see if I met it and going back to blind playing.
In conclusion, it has it's strengths - rewarding exploring thoroughly and weaknesses - can require a guide.
Overall handled well it can enhance a game, but most of the time it makes it worse.
I feel like this sort of miss-able content is more acceptable in shorter games that are meant to be played multiple times, and even then I prefer for it to be a "things change depending on the order you do things in" kinda thing than "you must do everything in the perfect order, which is often illogical in-setting, in order to get the best rewards" kinda thing.
Everything you just read about can be completely missed in a playthrough. With the exception of Selphie's Diary which I had a hunch about and don't really consider missable content in the same way (you have to be thinking about checking out the computer at some point in the next 10-20 hours), I would have missed it without the thread pointing me to them. How do you feel about this? Is this bad game design, or is it rewarding thoroughness, curiosity and multiple playthroughs? Would games today benefit for more of this approach, or is the question itself made moot by the rise of wikis? I'm curious about your thoughts on this but also, of course, the update itself as usual.
Nothing in the update seems to be that important. It's just some additional lore for a small town you pass through. It adds texture to the world but doesn't recontextualize the main plot or anything. The rwards are neat but not earthshaking, just some items you're going to hoard until the endgame and forget to use, most likely (especially since you don't have access to Item most of the time).
All in all, the pain of missing out is minimal. If I were to discover that I've missed something like that in a game, I'd think, "Damn, that sounds interesting, I should check it out next time I play". Or possibly watch YouTube with that section/read Let's Play. But I wouldn't feel an urge to go back and undo my mistakes, as it were.
In that aspect, regardless of whether it's good to have something like that in a game, it's not actively bad, at least, the way, say, discovering that you've played yourself by leveling up too much in FFVI was.
That said, the time window for those activities could definitely be larger. "You must do things in precise unintuitive order or be locked out of content forever" thing doesn't really work unless you're a kid with effectively infinite time on your hands and the ability to enjoy replaying the same game forever.
Speaking of, once you regain control of Squall, you should go back to the fisher kid. He'd give you fastest fish.
I did put the game on 50x speed to explore Garden to check for unique dialogue, but aside from the cafeteria lady's son, who moved back into BGU and said he's decided to help at the cafeteria, which I assume will still be there when we visit with Squall, there is no unique dialogue for controlling Irvine that I could see.
In the library, at the draw point, you can get a unique dialogue with the Girl with Pigtail; she asks Irvine about Zell, which she probably wouldn't be comfortable enough doing with Squall.
Additionally, in FH, when Irvine wonders where everybody is gone, if you then enter the inn, the computer/radio there explains why everybody is hiding, and the man on the road to the elevator, who only says "..." if Squall talks to him, has a brief conversation with Irvine.
Also, the old haunt of the Master Fisherman has a draw point you can access now that he has left (it was previously being blocked by him), but that will still be there if you go back to FH later.
I have very, very faint literally-over-2-decades-old memories that say the "correct" piece is a romantic slow song and the "incorrect" piece is an Irish jig, but looking at that list of instruments something tells me my memory is playing tricks on me
