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Memento Mori (Exalted/40k)

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Lord4StarCommand said:
Oh hell no, I'm changing voted no way I'm voting for making another totalitarian fascist empire!

[X] The Penitent Gunslinger
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Though to be fair, it is kinda hard to imagine dealing with all those damn nobles in a way that isn't, uh, totalitarian in the more generic not-necessarily-fascist-but-not-necessarily-not-fascist sense.

I say this despite switching my vote to the Gunslinger.
 
Jensaarai said:
Sure, but it's also the Ork system, and the Aeldari system, and the Chaos system, and... you get the point.

40k involves a lot of shooting, it's part of the whole "war across the stars," but that doesn't mean we have to prop up the Imperium with awful-no-good-terribad things like what's being described by Maugan Ra.
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The Aeldari do not really shoot each other over internal issues, but get where you are coming from. I just do not think there are enough bullets in the universe to un-fuck the IoM.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Aeldari do not really shoot each other over internal issues, but get where you are coming from. I just do not think there are enough bullets in the universe to un-fuck the IoM.
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We don't have to unfuck the Imperium.

We can just put a few bullets into its corpse while moving forward with our own goals of justice.
 
Basically, as an Abyssal you are going to be very good at killing things, and achieving your goals through the application of murder.

The Gunslinger does this in a very literal sense - he shoots people in the goddam face, and there are a remarkable number of problems that can be solved (or replaced with other problems) by shooting the right person in the goddam face.

The Scribe takes a broader view - if you shoot one tax assessor in the face, that doesn't change the essential problem of 'the imperial tithe is a ruinous burden upon this world', but if you destroy the tax office, then it does. And hey maybe now they can start fresh and make a new tax system that isn't an ossified nightmare.

(I'm aware that this is probably putting my finger on the scales here but there is nothing that will cause as much grief for us all down the line than people voting for something other than what they think they're getting).
 
Lord4StarCommand said:
That's just fascism but efficient, it is still fascism.
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Ehh, my point was that there's basically no way to deal with it that's not going to wind up with a lot of bodies... and admittedly there's no version of any of the characters that isn't going to basically be wading through blood.

Again, I'm (currently) voting Gunslinger, and I actually just engaged in some anti-Scribe arguments, but I'll point out that @Maugan Ra 's example of using a show trial to root out corruption is also just... kinda part of what the nature of what it'd look like to actually purge a corrupt bureaucracy. It's violent and crude and hardly subtle, but I wouldn't say that that Charm, in Itself, is fascist. It's drastic, and it shows a sort of totalizing spirit, as it were... but that gets into the complex ways that totalitarianism in general relies on modernity in general.
 
In my perspective playing the Scribe would be burning the imperial system down and making something new out of the ashes, out of spite.

Like, an Abyssal *can* do those things to factory workers. But the scribe's ire isn't aimed at the factory workers, is it? Sounds to me like she falsified reports to try and save workers. And its the people in power that burned her at the stake.

And to be clear the Gunslinger can get these charms, as can the Templar. They may even need to in order to solve some of our problems in future that they can't shoot or use necrotech on.

The Scribe's advantage over them is the Oaths (which are serious business and no one else can get things like them), and how her Exalt Milestones lean into doing social stuff - which implies building our charm suite's social side faster than the other two.

Don't get it twisted, who we apply these charms is the important part. Thematically, Abyssal charms are about death, memory, fear, ghosts, horror, revenge, spite, blood, pain. The argument is thus - we will have to pick our targets to use our dark powers on.

That's something all three will have to wrestle with.

E: I'd make the same argument for a Solar or a Deeb. Because well -

The Laurent said:
Ehh, my point was that there's basically no way to deal with it that's not going to wind up with a lot of bodies... and admittedly there's no version of any of the characters that isn't going to basically be wading through blood.

Again, I'm (currently) voting Gunslinger, and I actually just engaged in some anti-Scribe arguments, but I'll point out that @Maugan Ra 's example of using a show trial to root out corruption is also just... kinda part of what the nature of what it'd look like to actually purge a corrupt bureaucracy. It's violent and crude and hardly subtle, but I wouldn't say that that Charm, in Itself, is fascist. It's drastic, and it shows a sort of totalizing spirit, as it were... but that gets into the complex ways that totalitarianism in general relies on modernity in general.
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One of the gnarly knots about Exalts of any kind is that because they concentrate the power to kill an army or turn an army into superhumans or mind control a crowd inside a single person - because they are all supermen - they all have to wrestle with this totalitarian problem.
 
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And to be fair... there's something to be said about turning Abyssal things that the Imperium would love to use on the common person and using them on, y'know, the movers and shakers, the rulers and top bureaucrats and nobles. Giving them a taste of their own medicine... there's no way that can't be brutal and bitter, but we're Abyssals and this is Warhammer 40k, we're going to be facing so many greater evils it's funny.
 
The Laurent said:
And to be fair... there's something to be said about turning Abyssal things that the Imperium would love to use on the common person and using them on, y'know, the movers and shakers, the rulers and top bureaucrats and nobles. Giving them a taste of their own medicine... there's no way that can't be brutal and bitter, but we're Abyssals and this is Warhammer 40k, we're going to be facing so many greater evils it's funny.
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Precisely! Spite and revenge aimed at the actually deserving.
 
My vote is currently cast on the Gunslinger as well, but...
BungieONI said:
The Scribe's advantage over them is the Oaths (which are serious business and no one else can get things like them)
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In terms of wild things for the 40k setting, Speaker for the Dead in particular could (theoretically) let you reshape it to an absolutely crazy degree. The ability to negotiate with the Chaos gods or (maybe?) the C'Tan and get something potentially binding out of it, without the act of negotiation itself almost-inherently destroying you...

Gates of Death mentioning that portal destinations include "any significant location gleaned from the Emperor's tormented memories" is a bit QM-dependent in terms of what locations are presented, but also opens up some pretty setting-shaking things. Insofar as our Abyssal could potentially, e.g., step into the Noctis Labyrinth on Mars and start on those aforementioned negotiations with the Void Dragon. (Or into any number of important places on Terra, etc.)
 
Gunslinger also feels like it can wander around more easily than the Scribe, which I'm always a sucker for in characters and stories.
 
[X] The Contemptuous Scribe

CorruptTotally legitimate planetary governor: Nani?
Scribe: You are accused of treason and heretical behavior. The court finds you guilty and sentences you to be shot.
 
UARTman said:
[X] The Contemptuous Scribe

CorruptTotally legitimate planetary governor: Nani?
Scribe: You are accused of treason and heretical behavior. The court finds you guilty and sentences you to be shot.
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Given that the planetary governor of Scintilla is also the Sector Lord and is descending into paranoia and even more authoritarian behavior than is typical - I expect there's tons of legitimate grievances we can find.

And that the ticket - it works with trumped up charges or completely real ones.
 
BrainyPicker said:
What was that idea about negotiation with the chaos gods?
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The Scribe's Speaker for the Dead anima power is:
Maugan Ra said:
  • Speaker for the Dead: When negotiating with supernatural beings of any kind, they are obligated to do you and your companions no harm and offer full hospitality. Deals or promises made during such negotiations are sanctified, and any who break their word are accursed, generally suffering immediate physical peril or the loss of whatever would hurt them most.
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The Chaos Gods are, of course, horrifying corruptive monsters. However, Speaker for the Dead would let you get around that. You could treat with them without risk of them warping you into something horrifying, or betraying you. You could make a deal with them, and trust that they'd actually stick to it rather than immediately breaking it or twisting it into something that backstabs you. A "peace treaty" you signed between your sector and some Daemon Prince of Chaos that was threatening it would actually be a viable solution, rather than eternal war being the only possible answer. And even if they did break it, it'd at least hurt them to do so.
 
Well If scribe wins I'd definitely be interested in seeing how much we could actually negotiate with chaos factions, but I still much prefer being a cowboy of justice with the Penitent Gunslinger.
 
Kemayo said:
The Scribe's Speaker for the Dead anima power is:

The Chaos Gods are, of course, horrifying corruptive monsters. However, Speaker for the Dead would let you get around that. You could treat with them without risk of them warping you into something horrifying, or betraying you. You could make a deal with them, and trust that they'd actually stick to it rather than immediately breaking it or twisting it into something that backstabs you. A "peace treaty" you signed between your sector and some Daemon Prince of Chaos that was threatening it would actually be a viable solution, rather than eternal war being the only possible answer. And even if they did break it, it'd at least hurt them to do so.
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I would point out. That gives you no protection from environmental effects like "Being in the inner sanctum of a Chaos God", it just means they can't actively attempt to hurt you or twist you unless you break the laws of hospitality first.

It also does not give you immunity from getting Influenced, just that they can't actively try to brainwash, twist, or attack you in any way during that window.
 
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