For ready fire, we can do that next turn. I highly, highly, doubt that Trotha is going to surge his cavalry forward into medium range of our artillery, so I rather hide and not risk the chance of our artillery being revealed. I'm not sure what you mean by charge forward with artillery? For the rest of your points, I'll answer them, but it will take some time for me to write them.
Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest
- Thread starter Photomajig
- Start date
- Fantasy Historic
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
If von Trotha moves his infantry two tiles forward he will be in range of our artillery and i think its quite likely that he will do that.
i mean charging forward with cavalry.
Are you sure that our artillery isnt covered by the skirmisher line anyway? I really cant make sense of the plan picture so i cant tell
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
A quick illustration of what i mean by ready fire and retreating being incompatible, ignore the specific regiments used here. This is the ideal beginning situation, with the infantry where they were supposed to be and the enemy infantry starting our of range of them.
the infantry ready fires N at 200m
the enemy infantry charges forward and get shot by the infantry once.
now the enemy is in range of the infantry so we need to move back. but after we moved back, the enemy willl have moved too and be in charging range, so we will have to move back again untill they are left back at Kinzberg again.
So risking exposing our infantry to artillery attacks and cavalry charges has resulted in one volley of medium range shots from the skirmishers.
the infantry ready fires N at 200m
the enemy infantry charges forward and get shot by the infantry once.
now the enemy is in range of the infantry so we need to move back. but after we moved back, the enemy willl have moved too and be in charging range, so we will have to move back again untill they are left back at Kinzberg again.
So risking exposing our infantry to artillery attacks and cavalry charges has resulted in one volley of medium range shots from the skirmishers.
There is no possibility that if we have a competent enemy that this kind of skirmishing will deal more damage to the enemy than we suffered. The enemy have a lot of 700m medium range artillery, so they can move up to 700m with infantry at 600m range, if we stay, since our artillery and the infantry are detached they can get medium range artillery fire on us while we can only get long range artillery fire whilst our artillery are outnumbered.
So at the turn where enemy artillery are in range and setting up, we need to retreat. So we can actually get no ready fires off if the enemy does this. Instead this deployment gets us the risk, if our spotting is not good enough, to not retreat in time and get blasted by artillery at medium range or get charged by cavalry that sneaked up close.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah I can deal with RR's plan setting up a little forward on the main road, but EagerListener's plans have us moving way way too far forward over time. I'm for skirmishing, but it's going to involve either the horse arty getting a couple shots off before retreating, or using the concealment on the left of the map to let the halflings do shenanigans.
Last edited:
I specified medium range, because I don't think long range artillery is that useful. As for charging forward with cavalry, I don't think that's very likely as Trotha has been noted as a "Trotha is a believer in the supremacy of artillery; he rarely uses his cavalry other than to screen" but if Trotha decides to break from his usual course of action, then we can use our horse artillery to support, and my plan is for the skirmishers to remain close to the medium range of our artillery. We can also brace, and Brutet shows that aggressive cavalry use can be costly (Ex. Turn 3, a lot of the damage there was from artillery, but the infantry could have done a lot more if it weren't for the 55th having a defensive genius).
I think your illustration has some flaws and strange assumptions. I'll still need to finish responding to your other stuff, but I'll hit a few points. If the enemy decides to chase us after we move back, and that repeats, then they're moving into our artillery range, and move outside the protection of their artillery. Artillery has a movement of 1, and in addition has a one turn set up, which hardly makes it conducive to hitting our skirmishers. For cavalry, as mentioned before I doubt Trotha will use his cavalry aggressively, and we can brace and if in range we can use our own artillery ready fire. An additional thing to consider is that I also doubt that Trotha will use his infantry aggressively like this.
I'm not sure how we're getting no ready fires if the enemy is in range/set up? Let's say that we move 2 tiles out of medium range artillery. The enemy has to move two tiles to get in range, and then has one turn of set up. For cavalry, I already answered this above in this post. Have to sleep now, I will answer any questions when I wake up.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Could you explain why you dont think long range artillery is that useful?
Keep in mind that the 10th does more damage at long range than the 84th does at medium range
Proof:
AnyDice
AnyDice is an advanced dice probability calculator, available online. It is created with roleplaying games in mind.
anydice.com
The 10th deals an average of 42 casualties at long range, the 84th deals an average of 36 at medium range(yes, the 10th shoots at long range like a trained artillery shoots at medium range)
I mean, if the enemy does charge forward he will obviously charge forward all the way, whether there are skirmishers or not.
And if von Trotha does not use his infantry like this, what use do the skirmishers have?
Last edited:
I mean that the skirmishers have max 500m range and 6/7 of the artillery have 700m medium range. there is no actual incentive for the enemy to move into the range of of the skirmishers, they can just stay at 600m-700m and continuously fire at the skirmishers.
I'm not sure how this is a response to my point? Also what do you mean by charge forward all the way?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I thought you meant that von Trotha would not charge his infantry at full speed south once in range of the skirmishers, if he doesnt then this point is moot.
What i mean with charge forward all the way is that once von Trotha charges forward trying to catch our skirmishers, he wont stop, because that just means that he lost a lot of units for no gain and that is pretty obvious. So once enemies are in range of our skirmishers and try to charge them they wont stop
Last edited:
By this logic, we could lure Trotha's infantry into a fight by our breastworks, without him bringing up his artillery. Also, what do you think is the viability of long range infantry attacks, the same logic for artillery should apply, even if in comparison one artillery hit is more likely to deal more damage than one infantry range attack.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Yes? Like if he charges against the skirmishers without bringing up artillery, he would be charging against the breastworks without bringing up artillery.
If he does bring up artillery the skirmishers are useless anyway, because the artillery will just force them to move back.
Long range infantry attacks are fine when they are the best action in the situation?
Like, if they are the best attack we can get, we should take them. But its not really comparable because i dont look at attacks as a situation where a type of attack is always or never worth it, i look at them in the situation and how they would effect the battle in the unique circumstances surrounding that attack and can see here that a long range attack would be the equivalent of an infantry medium attack for example, if we had to compare them for some reason
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Like we have fired long range infantry shots multiple times with generally not much controversy, so i am not sure how comparing long range artillery and infantry fire is something negative for the artillery, especially when you already confirmed that long range artillery fire is better anyway
Yep, I agree with this criticism. Von Trotha has a frankly terrifying amount of artillery, so sending any of our troops out into the open in the center feels way too risky to me. Skirmishing should happen, but only on the flanks.
For the first quote, I don't think Trotha will easily just buy into the sunk cost fallacy like that. He could just go, well charging isn't working and it's bringing me into the medium range of Durand's artillery, time to stop charging and bring my artillery up. For the second quote, I asking this for the hypothetical skirmish action you created. Will respond to your other points after sleeping.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I don't think he will do that either, but he will be aware of how it will turn out before doing the charge in the first place and just not do it and bombard with artillery instead.
(And if Von Trotha expects us to go forward your skirmishers could be getting bombarded this turn already if he has ready fires set up)
@Nerdorama are you going to finish your plan? cause i think it has everything i want
Last edited:
Just caught up on reader mode and looked at some of the debate for this turn. This is a very fine quest!
I do have some questions about remaining hidden though, in case I missed any mechanics posting
- Was the fact that artillery can remain hidden whilst firing over LOS blocking terrain, thus gaining advantage every turn patched out yet?
- Does a unit that is hidden by virtue of high concealment block LoS?
Regardless of these two questions, there is a strong argument for any unit that does not expect to move to hide, even non halflings in plains would have 6 concealment, beating even elven eyes unless a commander is watchful (a trait which does not come into play until said elven unit sees combat) or spends a turn searching with line of sight on a target and consequently doesn't do anything else.
I do have some questions about remaining hidden though, in case I missed any mechanics posting
- Was the fact that artillery can remain hidden whilst firing over LOS blocking terrain, thus gaining advantage every turn patched out yet?
- Does a unit that is hidden by virtue of high concealment block LoS?
Regardless of these two questions, there is a strong argument for any unit that does not expect to move to hide, even non halflings in plains would have 6 concealment, beating even elven eyes unless a commander is watchful (a trait which does not come into play until said elven unit sees combat) or spends a turn searching with line of sight on a target and consequently doesn't do anything else.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
It was patched out with the simple fix that the last location of the artillery remains and if it fires from there it doesn't get the bonus
I am not sure about the concealment thing, I think they don't block spotting but I am not sure.
I agree that hiding should just be the default action. 6 concealment can be beaten by elves on a hill though
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
This is Nerdos Draft plan from here, just not a draft anymore and all no actions replaced with hide.
Putting it here to make it votable, all credit for it to Nerdorama
[x] Plan: Flank Scouting
-[x] Visualization
-[x] 200th Hob: Hide
-[x] 251st Hob: Hide
-[x] 72nd Hum: Move E, E
-[x] 148th Hum: Move E, E
-[x] 28th Half Pfd: Hide
-[x] 31st Elv Art: READY FIRE NW, NE 1400m
-[x] 10th Hum Art: READY FIRE NW, NE 1400m
-[x] 84th Elv Art: READY FIRE NW, NE 1400m
-[x] 13th Hob Lan: Hide
-[x] 55th Elv Hsr: MOVE NE
-[x] 16th Half Pfd: MOVE NW
-[x] 19th Half Pfd: MOVE NW, Rapid MOVE NW
-[x] 341st Elv Hsr: Move NW, NW, NW, NW
-[x] 350th Elv Hsr: Move NW, NW, NE
-[x] 45th Elv: Move NE, NE
-[x] 108th Elv Hsr: Move NW, NE, NE, NW
-[x] 5th Hob HArt: Move NW, NE, E
-[x] 42nd Elv: Move NE, NE
-[x] HQ: Hide
Putting it here to make it votable, all credit for it to Nerdorama
[x] Plan: Flank Scouting
-[x] Visualization
-[x] 200th Hob: Hide
-[x] 251st Hob: Hide
-[x] 72nd Hum: Move E, E
-[x] 148th Hum: Move E, E
-[x] 28th Half Pfd: Hide
-[x] 31st Elv Art: READY FIRE NW, NE 1400m
-[x] 10th Hum Art: READY FIRE NW, NE 1400m
-[x] 84th Elv Art: READY FIRE NW, NE 1400m
-[x] 13th Hob Lan: Hide
-[x] 55th Elv Hsr: MOVE NE
-[x] 16th Half Pfd: MOVE NW
-[x] 19th Half Pfd: MOVE NW, Rapid MOVE NW
-[x] 341st Elv Hsr: Move NW, NW, NW, NW
-[x] 350th Elv Hsr: Move NW, NW, NE
-[x] 45th Elv: Move NE, NE
-[x] 108th Elv Hsr: Move NW, NE, NE, NW
-[x] 5th Hob HArt: Move NW, NE, E
-[x] 42nd Elv: Move NE, NE
-[x] HQ: Hide
Last edited:
BananosMoon
Banana lover.
- Location
- Poney banana paradise.
[X] Plan: Shuffle and Move Alternate
Last edited:
Shapeless Phobos
Filthy Casual
[x] Plan: Flank Scouting
-[X] Plan High Mobility Skirmish
-[X] Plan High Mobility Skirmish
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Considering our artillery is hidden I'd rather that first shot with the advantage we'll not get back (except for the Offensive genius) not be at long range, so.
-[X] Plan High Mobility Skirmish
[X] Plan: Shuffle and Move Alternate
-[X] Plan High Mobility Skirmish
[X] Plan: Shuffle and Move Alternate
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
The advantage is a single one time bonus of 15 casualties.
By doing long range fire we deal 200 more casualties
Yes, some amount of extra damage we can use when needed is good, but I feel like at a certain point just doing more damage becomes more worth it. Saving your consumables for the perfect moment can be a detriment when it means that you refrain from doing a good enough job in the meanwhile
Last edited: