Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- India
Does Lorgar Embody Claric archetype or more of Sage Archetype similar like Buddha?
Character Sheet
Name: Lorgar
Gender: Male
Mythos: ●
Mythos Archetype: 1. Holy (Aspect: 1. Faith, 2. ???, 3. ???), 2. Sun (1. ???, 2. ???, 3. ???) 3. Human (1. ???, 2. ???, 3. ???)
Willpower: ●●●●●●●●●●
Soak: 10 dice + 5 automatic successes
Health Levels: []-0 (x30) []Inc
Urge - Lorgar has the Urge to believe. So long as he promotes his belief, he restores any Willpower spent on such actions. However, any attempt to convince him to stray from his belief is rolled at a minimum difficulty 10 and needs a minimum of 5 successes to work, at which point he goes into Torment.
Torment: Lorgar becomes convinced that his previous beliefs are fatally flawed and becomes crippled by self-doubt. He will seek the assistance of his allies in every task, no matter how simple, and will pass his duties and responsibilities on to others whom he believes are more capable than him until he finds a new belief or regains faith in his previous belief.
Archetype: Visionary
Major Intimacies:
Minor Intimacies:
- Fan Morgal (Father/Loyalty)
- Faith and Belief (Necessity)
- The Emperor (???/Loyalty)
- Slavery (Dislike)
- The Spirits (Curiosity)
- Philosophy (Like)
Abilities: 10 dice + 5 SuccessesAttributes & Abilities
Attributes: 10 dice + 5 Successes
Mythos: So long as he is performing something related to all 3 aspects of his Mythos, Lorgar rolls all action at a (x8), for all two aspects related to his Mythos he rolls at (x6) and for all actions not related to his Mythos he rolls at (x4).
Backgrounds:
- Mentor ●●● - Lorgar has been adopted by a Defiler Caste Infernal Exalted.
- Spirit Allies ●●: You have gained an alliance with the remnants of the World Soul. They will aide you in all non physical actions so long as you keep your end of the bargain.
- Contacts (Spirits) ●● - Get news on the notable events in on the Planet.
Faith
True Faith is a power held by the truly devout. With True Faith, for example, a brandished Aquila can have an effect on a spirits, daemons, mutants, witches, magic and Psykers instead of being merely an empty symbol of the creed.
The strongest tool in the hands of the Faithful is the power of Miracle. Miracle can be performed if a character has a minimum Faith rating of six. People with rating of 6+ are the sort of people who are venerated as saints.
For Example, the Adepta Sororitas and the Imperial Heralds would count as having a faith rating of upto 5. But truly special individuals like Thor and Sebastian would have 6+ while Living Saints would have 8+ rating.
Characters with True Faith can perform these miracles, or other equivalent ones by spending a Willpower point.
- Countermagic based on True Faith rating
- Ward off demons and Witches
- Acceptance: By recognizing the oneness of faith you can ignore the effects of one True Faith miracle someone else performed
- Faith healing based on True Faith rating. Can cure both damage and diseases, and at really high level even bring back the dead
- Transmutation: Water to wine, or poison to water. No roll required
- Mental resistance: Add Faith to Willpower for resisting mental assault. You might become immune to supernatural coercion at certain levels of Faith
- Holy shielding: Add Faith to soak
- Visions: You gain a vision or prophecy
- Intercession: You intercede with the Powers That Be, to lift a curse or to stay death
- Penance: True Faith vs Willpower. If you win the target is overcome with remorse, or, if they are truly evil, with thoughts of suicide and recklessness
Merits and other Advantages
Primarch (Free)
Lorgar is a Primarch and can have as many internal Backgrounds as would make sense for him to have. Only Special or Magical Backgrounds have to be acquired, otherwise, if it exists, he is considered to have it.
True Faith (10 Dots)
Lorgar has a strong Faith Trait. Those who interact with Lorgar will quickly realize that he's special, touched and devoted in a way that's rarely seen in this world. Lorgar, by virtue of his special connection to Faith, is able to perform miracles through sheer Willpower; the exact details of such inherent magic are up to the Storyteller. Miracles of this sort do not garner any form of Backlash.Lorgar's Mythos makes him a social Primarch primarily and a mental one secondarily. Because of this, he is charismatic and very approachable and prefers either Social or Intellectual solutions to problems.
He treats the beneficial intimacies as being one degree higher than they are, ie Minor intimacy = Major intimacy and Treat any negative intimacies against him as one degree less, ie Major negative intimacy = Minor negative intimacy and Minor negative intimacy = no negative intimacy.
This only works if the Character does not hates Lorgar to the point that they want him dead.
Holly Shit Lorgar... something tells me we accelerates his development quite a lot when we tossed some Primordial Essence into his soul to awaken his Mythos. Faith 10 is 'Bring back the recently dead' levels and more importantly in WoD it's 'turn a vampire into a human' levels of faith. I think he might be able to de-Chaos mutants, maybe even Champions if they are legitimately regetful, sort of like a Living Saint in 40K.
[x] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.
[x] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.
[x] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
[x] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
[x] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments
[x] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.
[x] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
[x] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
[x] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Yes and no. True Faith helped him along certainly, but that was more towards giving him similar abilities to Living Saints and such.
I put this comparison for a reason.
But as a Primarch? It helped but his Mythos is something he has to work on his own. That is why the rating is still only 1.
Oh I understand that, it is basically his Essence Rating, but just saying when we meets Magnus that is going to be one fascinated magic nerd.
Lorgar: Oh, I'm not a sorcerer, that is my dad.
Also Lorgar: *Raises the recently dead through sheer conviction*
One does not really see manifestations of True Faith in the IoM until the heresy is starts, almost exactly when it starts actually
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
This is not determined per say. His Archetypes are Holy, Human and Sun. The Aspects are what determines his focus. So for example, in Human, if he has a Crusader or Paladin Aspect, then you can guess that his physical actions now get a x6 or x8 boost.
- Location
- India
What is the difference between Archetype and Aspects? How one develop aspects?
Sure but i wanted to shout out something i think is very very important today, especially since i live in a country where these rights are beinh actively eroded, not the US so no one argue with me, and i think its important to reiterate this even in fiction.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Archetype determines what aspect he can get.
For example, in Holy he can have an Aspect related to holy, like Faith.
So long as his action is done from a position of Faith and includes at least one more Aspect of another Archetype, his sux gets multiplied by x6. If it hits an aspect of all 3 Archetypes? x8.
As for how they develop? You do not know. You currently do not know he even has that, only that he is "Holy" and has a need for Faith.
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BTW I think Lorgar should have Transcendent Desert Creature on his sheet. Even for a primarch that is not really standard.
I do actually fully understand that. The idea of inalienable and or inviolable human rights is a good and necessary in reality. I just don't think our guy who is literally an at best early Bronze Age at worst before agrarian Revolution tribal leader is going to have that as a thing that he believes. Especially considering raiding is a thing that this tribe does or rather did or was considered.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Whops, forogt that.
- Location
- India
Also how True Faith influence what it consider source of its faith? For example Living Saints draw power from their Faith towards Emperor. First Living Saint able to draw such power despite Emperor not willing accept himself as God during that point of Time.
So I am wondering hypothetically does Lorgar due to his Greater Connection towards Faith Domain plus him being Physically and Spiritually Emperor's Son have greater influence upon his source of Faith? For example if he choose to accept Emperor as a core piller of his Faith will that influence him and vice versa? Or influence his and Emperor's aspects?
Does True Faith have any impact in Warp? I am not talking about more offensive effects against daemons rather any sorta culminative effect on Warp as a whole?
So I am wondering hypothetically does Lorgar due to his Greater Connection towards Faith Domain plus him being Physically and Spiritually Emperor's Son have greater influence upon his source of Faith? For example if he choose to accept Emperor as a core piller of his Faith will that influence him and vice versa? Or influence his and Emperor's aspects?
Does True Faith have any impact in Warp? I am not talking about more offensive effects against daemons rather any sorta culminative effect on Warp as a whole?
Time to teach him to scream "DEUS VULT" while charging in combat. He'll tear Russ apart with his bare hands.
...Man, his legion is gonna have a bunch of people with True Faith. Sneaky Space Paladins? Fun.
[X] People should be treated with a base level of dignity.
You know, sure, I like this. It also pretty resonant with how Fan being doing things up to this point.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
True faith does not influence the item of worship by itself or the Warp any more than normal worship does. True faith is how I am modeling the faith based powers of the Adeptus Sororitas and the Living Saints.
It is just that Lorgar has a special connection to faith.
[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.
[X] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.
[X] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.
[X] Write in: the Necessity of EVIL (stolen/paraphrased from THIS Video)
-[X] Write in: without violence, "evil" or conflict, society would not progress only an unattainable ideal, growing stagnant till collapse; too much violence is bad but its a facet of life, those that aren't prepared to face it will fall to it. look inwards to understand, then express it in humane ways (arts, debates and discussions, etc.)
--[X] Write in: Nature isn't a kind parent, by its principles one must die to sustain another by acquiring limited resources via an advantage it has over other; society is an agreement to not live nature so arguments justified by "its nature" are in bad faith, we shifted from enacting every evil to debates to which ones are discarded and what should be kept
--[X] Write in: laws don't protect, but the law is protected; a better, ideal world is something humans seek since their inception, we sacrificed our freedoms to achieve it; these hopes and dreams form society and law. sacrificing our limitless possibilities to guarantee our ideal future.
-[X] Write in: violent is commercialized, when words don't work its easy to express negative emotions, via the abundance tools that magnify a small spark into a deadly wildfire, one doesn't have to be strong but acquire a weapon.
--[X] Write In: fear of a costly victory controls and limits violence, if one side is stronger there not incentive to not attack another and profit from conflict (TLDR, M.A.D prevents conflict)
--[X] Write In: if EVIL exist and people profit, why not have those Profits be in better hands? if one commits EVIL, can we use the benefits to help miniate, regulate the Evils of Man? Is it better to have large scale, desensitized violence or small scale, visceral conflicts? we might not be able to stop a brother killing brother but we can stop entire tribes and cultures, societies from wiping themselves and others out. Create whatever good you can from necessary Evil and prevent the worse from happening.
-[X] Write In: violence and evil itself is simple, but the causes are complex; its why violent is a guarantee, the simplicity of death gets rid of the complex, chaotic factor known as other human beings, less emotions means less conflicts to have a manageable system
--[X] Write In: this creates a world of basic people with basic desires, that cannot fend for themselves and must take from the hard work of others that creates great human creations, from arts, sciences , philosophy, etc. this ruins the Great works of humanity; others will watch you gather great wealth and have every need taken care of, and are incentivized to follow this simple path of violence but just as you can gain much, you can also be reduced to nothing, violence is indiscriminate and can be used against you.
--[X] Write In: to choose a peaceful life is to struggle against not only those who attack you, but Nature where our needs can only be acquired via hard word instead of stealing, the complexity required to survive is constant. Peace is a respect for what life truly is, to struggle and overcome odds the strongest can walk past and create something even greater than they ever could, were Violence has Highs and Lows, Peace is a harder fight that never ends, one that lasts a lifetime; a lifetime is what's needed to impart good values but its a lifetime outside forces can impart bad values, its this fight that imparts any value into humans, its how we create society, civilization, art, culture, etc.
@Yzarc is this viable? just watched a video and i felt it might be good.
[X] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.
[X] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.
[X] Write in: the Necessity of EVIL (stolen/paraphrased from THIS Video)
-[X] Write in: without violence, "evil" or conflict, society would not progress only an unattainable ideal, growing stagnant till collapse; too much violence is bad but its a facet of life, those that aren't prepared to face it will fall to it. look inwards to understand, then express it in humane ways (arts, debates and discussions, etc.)
--[X] Write in: Nature isn't a kind parent, by its principles one must die to sustain another by acquiring limited resources via an advantage it has over other; society is an agreement to not live nature so arguments justified by "its nature" are in bad faith, we shifted from enacting every evil to debates to which ones are discarded and what should be kept
--[X] Write in: laws don't protect, but the law is protected; a better, ideal world is something humans seek since their inception, we sacrificed our freedoms to achieve it; these hopes and dreams form society and law. sacrificing our limitless possibilities to guarantee our ideal future.
-[X] Write in: violent is commercialized, when words don't work its easy to express negative emotions, via the abundance tools that magnify a small spark into a deadly wildfire, one doesn't have to be strong but acquire a weapon.
--[X] Write In: fear of a costly victory controls and limits violence, if one side is stronger there not incentive to not attack another and profit from conflict (TLDR, M.A.D prevents conflict)
--[X] Write In: if EVIL exist and people profit, why not have those Profits be in better hands? if one commits EVIL, can we use the benefits to help miniate, regulate the Evils of Man? Is it better to have large scale, desensitized violence or small scale, visceral conflicts? we might not be able to stop a brother killing brother but we can stop entire tribes and cultures, societies from wiping themselves and others out. Create whatever good you can from necessary Evil and prevent the worse from happening.
-[X] Write In: violence and evil itself is simple, but the causes are complex; its why violent is a guarantee, the simplicity of death gets rid of the complex, chaotic factor known as other human beings, less emotions means less conflicts to have a manageable system
--[X] Write In: this creates a world of basic people with basic desires, that cannot fend for themselves and must take from the hard work of others that creates great human creations, from arts, sciences , philosophy, etc. this ruins the Great works of humanity; others will watch you gather great wealth and have every need taken care of, and are incentivized to follow this simple path of violence but just as you can gain much, you can also be reduced to nothing, violence is indiscriminate and can be used against you.
--[X] Write In: to choose a peaceful life is to struggle against not only those who attack you, but Nature where our needs can only be acquired via hard word instead of stealing, the complexity required to survive is constant. Peace is a respect for what life truly is, to struggle and overcome odds the strongest can walk past and create something even greater than they ever could, were Violence has Highs and Lows, Peace is a harder fight that never ends, one that lasts a lifetime; a lifetime is what's needed to impart good values but its a lifetime outside forces can impart bad values, its this fight that imparts any value into humans, its how we create society, civilization, art, culture, etc.
@Yzarc is this viable? just watched a video and i felt it might be good.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I will be adapting this and all write ins.
Just keep in mind that what you are proposing will be reworded into something Fan Morgal believes in to at least some extent. Something he believes or wants to believe in, like a dream he would like to come true.
- Location
- India
Lore wish In warp there is meaning and deep symbolism. By accepting a source as main piller of Faith worshippers proactively inserting him or herself under that source. Such influence should be mutualistic even in case of Parasitics like Chaos. Worshippers influence their God in turn or rather reinforce God's current existence by though their Faith. In case of Emperor post heresy books indicates he is more and more influenced by how humanity view him currently rather his previous conviction during Pre Heresy. Another example I wish to highlight how due to Faith towards a possibility energized the birth of Ynnard. As more and more Eldars put their Faith on possible birth of God more and more active unborn God became. He able invoke active miracles and interventions due to Faith of his worshippers. Even Keeler more or less acted as Focal point during heresy to generate image of God Emperor which her Successors used to construct their Creed. Even Thor use that template as Fremework which incorporated his own interpretation but Foundation remain more or less intact. In 40k Belief or Faith = Power, common man in 40k believes in human Afterlife safeguarded by Emperor which provide Emperor his authority over human souls. Common man accept him as a God that gives him Power though Faith. If such things are true that mean a source of Faith can be influenced by Worshippers and vice versa due to nature of Warp. Lore say Even during crusade Emperor was aware that many human worshipping him secretly due to Faith he was getting from them. He was sure after crusade he will fix the issue but heresy stopped his plans permanently. So Faith and True Faith double edged sword which influence Worshippers and Their God equally. That's why Chaos God proactively reinforce their existence and concepts though their Worshippers which in turn strengthen their Existence. Good Example will be Dark Eldar and Slaaansh in this case.
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that's fine, things like architecture and other great works of civilization would be in ruins from the DAoT but the fact the ruins existed means that it was once achieved by humans and can be done again, just that many factors make it hard to do and get in the way.
TLDR: "Humans have dealt with this issue (Violence and Evil) before and created great works, lets do it again" is the kind of vibes I'm getting
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Holy wall of text. That said, I agree Faith = Power.
My answer was that True faith does not do to the warp or any object that regular faith does not. True Faith is such a deep understanding that YOU can make use of Faith similar to how Spirits and Demons do. It is just that you can only harness one source, yourself.
- Location
- India
Just because you are Contemplating or reasoning rather than accepting something does not change nature of Faith. It merely reinforce conviction of Faithful. Faith merely belief whole true faith seem to me Faith reinforced by conviction and Contemplation. I mean admech logical compared to common man however they consider Emperor as omnissah due to his achievements like incase of Land and Cawl. Does it not make their Faith true faith according to your definition?
No, or at least not in my understanding sorry for bugging in. True Faith is different from regular faith faith is what the occasional church goer has which would fit Land and cawl. True faith is a willpower and understanding of your faith that is unshakable to the point where you can perform outright Miracles with that understanding with that will.
To the point where in the world of Darkness where the system comes from it was debatable if True Faith was different from Magick that Mages used. If you don't know the Magics from Mage the Ascension they can alter reality to fit a different framework of belief for a moment before it snaps back and they get punished for doing so.
The in character or in Universe idea of true faith being the same thing comes from the fact of the matter there is no God that intercedes there is no being outside of the person with true faith using it the only reason it's not considered the same thing is because it doesn't incur Paradox it is an innate power of a believer of a human of beings that possess true faith to use it as such rather than an imposition or Magick.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I am sorry but I am genuinely confused. Wasn't the question "How true Faith works on the Warp?"
True Faith is not just thinking about something really hard in WoD, it is the province of saints, even vampire saints funnily enough, from some of the ways it is presented it feels a bit like half-Awakened magic, the part of the soul that is as-divinity channeled though the lens of inward focus rather than the full understanding of the Awakened. What that means for 40K where there are no Mages I am not sure but it should be rare, even more than magic this is not something you just have, it is something you must sacrifice to gain, specifically you sacrifice the ability to act against the beliefs in which you have Faith. No little lies, no compromises, a unity of mind, soul and action. I submit there aren't a lot of Tech priests or anything else in 40K with that level of faith.
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