Voting is open
[X][EXTINCTION] Only bombard worthless rocks. You want to preserve anything you know to contain valuable resources or facilities, but there's no harm in scratching the worthless asteroids that the Rachni occupy purely to be a pain in the ass off the list.

[X][MAROON] Conventionally. Deploy the 2nd Battle Fleet to Maroon Sea. Have one of your raiding fleets pick up patrol duties in Sentry Omega. That will provide a powerful deterrent to any attempts at moving in, and if the rachni try anyway, you should be able to hold long enough to bring in reinforcements.

[X][PLAN] Plan Ardat-Yakshi Normalization
-[X] Republics cooperation. How closely will you work with the experts in this field? They will have conditions.
--[X] You will pursue no cooperation with the Asari Republics.
-[X] Scope of reveal. You can do nothing to compel others to keep the secret save whatever is available to you, in-character.
--[X] You will inform the Terminus Alliance of the truth of ardat-yakshi, and they will develop their own policies, over which you will have some influence [BREACH].
-[X] Ardat-yakshi recruits. Do they have a place in these efforts?
--[X] Ardat-yakshi are personnel. No more, no less [BREACH].
-[X] Aim of efforts. What are you planning on doing about the ardat-yakshi? To an extent all of these will happen, but what is your point?
--[X] Treatment and support. Fundamentally, this is a public health issue, and you'll treat it as such with an eye to allowing victims to function in society as best they can.
 
An indeterminate favor that neither we nor the Volus can mandate is frankly of less use than cash.
Can we be clear that we will get to decide what the favor will be? It's in determinate now because we haven't seen what the options would be, but given terminus has none of the political hang ups on what they do for us that tie the Volus's hands, the options are if anything likely broader than the volus favor gives us.
yes, yes we do need the money. We need money badly. Don't get cocky just because we have almost a million in reserve right now. That money will vanish fast as we do more projects. Projects that will continue to get more expensive as time passes. We need the Volus's help with banking. With their help, we can get enough income to build and maintain a third battle fleet or to build more infrastructure. colonize systems, And more.
Us building a third battle fleet is in no way dependent on volus investment. We have the shipbuilding, the logistics and money to support it, and only lack quality crews fit to go to the front lines.

Even with Volus investment, we lack industry to expand further, as their too far away to provide that efficiently to us.

The terminus alliance can provide us with both financial aid and industrial aid, enabling us to increase force expansion further. There is a specific action to get it and everything, but it's a hard one to pass. It has none of the political road blocks to working with us the volus face, so their more free in what they offer us.
 
[X][EXTINCTION] Only bombard worthless rocks. You want to preserve anything you know to contain valuable resources or facilities, but there's no harm in scratching the worthless asteroids that the Rachni occupy purely to be a pain in the ass off the list.

[X][MAROON] Conventionally. Deploy the 2nd Battle Fleet to Maroon Sea. Have one of your raiding fleets pick up patrol duties in Sentry Omega. That will provide a powerful deterrent to any attempts at moving in, and if the rachni try anyway, you should be able to hold long enough to bring in reinforcements.

[X][FAVOR] Ask for something on behalf of the Terminus Alliance, which they will pick, in exchange for one vote of your choice passed without a veto in the Council.

[X][PLAN] Plan Business as usual even if they are Ardat-Yakshi.
-[X] Republics cooperation. How closely will you work with the experts in this field? They will have conditions.
--[X] You will pass information on ardat-yakshi fugitives back and forth, but little more (you must take no options marked, [BREACH].
-[X] Scope of reveal. You can do nothing to compel others to keep the secret save whatever is available to you, in-character.
--[X] You will establish a formal government agency to handle the matter of ardat-yakshi within Commonwealth space.
-[X] Ardat-yakshi recruits. Do they have a place in these efforts?
--[X] You'll recruit them in advisory capacities to inform policy.
-[X] Aim of efforts. What are you planning on doing about the ardat-yakshi? To an extent all of these will happen, but what is your point?
--[X] Treatment and support. Fundamentally, this is a public health issue, and you'll treat it as such with an eye to allowing victims to function in society as best they can.
 
[X][EXTINCTION] Bombard almost everything besides locations of particular value. While some locations the Rachni occupy hold value in mundane resources and infrastructure, they're nothing we can't replicate ourselves or get elsewhere with little issue. However a few places hold unique or extremely valuable resources that are absolutely worth the effort of taking by force such as Precursor ruins and significant Eezo deposits.

[X][MAROON] Conventionally. Deploy the 2nd Battle Fleet to Maroon Sea. Have one of your raiding fleets pick up patrol duties in Sentry Omega. That will provide a powerful deterrent to any attempts at moving in, and if the rachni try anyway, you should be able to hold long enough to bring in reinforcements.

[X][FAVOR] Ask for something on behalf of the Terminus Alliance, which they will pick, in exchange for one vote of your choice passed without a veto in the Council.
 
Virmire has influence, but no control over the Terminus Alliance's decisions.
The Volus have influence, but even less control over the Citadel's decisions than Virmire has in the Alliance.
We have very little effective control over what said favor might ensure.
@PoptartProdigy can you chime in on uju32 assessment that we won't be able to control what we use the favor for? It seems counter intuitive for us to trade a favor with a rival polity who's hands are tied and somehow gain a favor we have less control of from nominal allies, but clearly some people are of the opinion this is the case. Could we get some clarification.
 
Can we be clear that we will get to decide what the favor will be? It's in determinate now because we haven't seen what the options would be, but given terminus has none of the political hang ups on what they do for us that tie the Volus's hands, the options are if anything likely broader than the volus favor gives us.
We dont get to decide. The VOLUS dont get to decide. When you involve third parties, they get a say.
We will both have to go to our sides and see what they can agree on; if either side balks, or is only willing to go so far, thats it.
And the Volus arent great at diplomacy.

Its the same reason why I passed over taking []Technology from them; the Citadel gets a veto on what the volus can sell to outsiders.

Stick to shit we know the Volus are good at.
They are good at money, not talking people around.
Keep that in mind.
 
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Even with Volus investment, we lack industry to expand further, as their too far away to provide that efficiently to us.
Can you explain where you get the impression that the Volus Investment that's explicitly meant to improve our industry won't let us expand further? Just from the distance seems insufficient to make that assertion given its explicitly an option meant to improve our economy? What do you expect it to actually accomplish instead then?
 
Even with Volus investment, we lack industry to expand further, as their too far away to provide that efficiently to us.

It's not future expansion I'm worried about its that our economy could use more growth to make sure where not constantly fighting a balance between civilian industry build up or military buildup.

The issue I have with the favor is that we only get to veto one decision it might be important it might not but it can be ignored if to many factions don't like it. Also we don't get to choose just what happens with that volus favor.

We should stick to investment the volus are good at it and if nothing else a robust economy will bring more long term benefits. The favor is unlikely to last us as long.
 
Relating to the Volus favor issue. Here's something from the Stewardship status section.

"Between financial difficulties and the ever-hungry maw of the war effort, however, you have been forced to prioritize gains over reform time and again in order to accrue enough supplies for the war effort. Your budget is more secure now than it ever have been before, but that is largely the result of renewed trade with the wider galaxy and your increasing exploitation of resources within your own territory. To tell the truth, what you have is an inefficient mess, but you have had precious few opportunities to address that. Furthermore, while you have plenty of resources now, you don't fool yourself that this will persist; there's always another expense coming, and you have at least one more vast expansion planned for your Navy, and an overhaul of your Army that promises to be ruinous."

Our economy/industry is an inefficient mess, if the volus can help and invest in it and that helps make it less of a mess? That will likely have significant long term benefits for us.
 
Us building a third battle fleet is in no way dependent on volus investment. We have the shipbuilding, the logistics and money to support it, and only lack quality crews fit to go to the front lines.

Even with Volus investment, we lack industry to expand further, as their too far away to provide that efficiently to us.
Our affording new shit very much can.
RnD is expensive. Building industry is expensive.

Those of us who were here in the early days of this quest can recall running out of cash.
They can also remember our income going into the 400ks. At 300k, our income has actually dropped significantly.
The costs of things keep rising.
Even with Volus investment, we lack industry to expand further, as their too far away to provide that efficiently to us.
This is not true.
We are literally taking in civilian Volus immigrants right now, in the middle of a war, to colonise our volus garden world.
There are safe shipping routes available.

And investment is money.
It might involve paying the Tamaras Rim to ship us stuff. Or it might be paying to unlock some civilian Citadel techs. Or it might be sending us additional financial experts.

It doesnt necessarily require they ship physical industry to Attica.
The terminus alliance can provide us with both financial aid and industrial aid, enabling us to increase force expansion further. There is a specific action to get it and everything, but it's a hard one to pass. It has none of the political road blocks to working with us the volus face, so their more free in what they offer us.
The Terminus Alliance is poorer than the Citadel. They have less to spare.
We are actually one of the more prosperous nations in the Alliance that isnt the Tamaras Rim.

The sinews of war is infinite money. You cant have too much cash in a war.
 
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Can you explain where you get the impression that the Volus Investment that's explicitly meant to improve our industry won't let us expand further? Just from the distance seems insufficient to make that assertion given its explicitly an option meant to improve our economy? What do you expect it to actually accomplish instead then?
The volus investment is aimed economically. It's volus investing as they see fit, with more favorable rates to allow us greater profit. It isn't neccessarily aimed at the industry. I doubt we'll get the level of focused industrial investment required to open shipbuilding back up. The Commonwealth Call to aid action that gets us both from the terminus systems goes out of it's way to seperate financial aid and industrial, because there not entirely interchangeable, even if their closely related.

We dont get to decide. The VOLUS dont get to decide. When you involve third parties, they get a say.
We will both have to go to our sides and see what they can agree on; if either side balks, or is only willing to go so far, thats it.
And the Volus arent great at diplomacy.
The vote seems to be about specifically getting to pick something, and then stop it from being opposed by other terminus elements. Forgive me if I get official confirmation on the issue when the notion your asserting seems to directly contradict the wording of the vote option. Point in case, a voter suggested we could use it to decide terminus ardak Yakshi policy, and Poptart weighed in to acknowledge there creativity in seeing that possibility.
The issue I have with the favor is that we only get to veto one decision it might be important it might not but it can be ignored if to many factions don't like it. Also we don't get to choose just what happens with that volus favor.
It's not a veto. It's an anti veto. It's us getting a "the terminus council will pass policy ???"
 
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[X][EXTINCTION] Only bombard worthless rocks. You want to preserve anything you know to contain valuable resources or facilities, but there's no harm in scratching the worthless asteroids that the Rachni occupy purely to be a pain in the ass off the list.
[X][FAVOR] Ask for something on behalf of the Terminus Alliance, which they will pick, in exchange for one vote of your choice passed without a veto in the Council.
[X][MAROON] In force. All three raiding fleets are now coming off of patrol duties, and the 2nd Battle Fleet is held in Sentry Omega for situations that require a reserve, just such as this one. Send all of them to Maroon Sea while you figure out a more permanent solution. If the Rachni have decided they've smelled weakness, they'll be terminally disappointed.

I think a terminus policy win is better than tech or investment in us alone, my hope is terminus asks for broad investment which we can then maximize by pushing policy in the alliance itself. I don't want to squander potential colonies, itll make things harder for our ground pounders, but tbh us continuing to not fund them is way more of a hinderence.

Finally we should swing our space dicks around in the maroon sea. Leaving aside TA politics, dropping a large force in a place the rachni are probing seems prudent so that
A) If it's only recon/ a small force looking to exploit a fuckups we can send a raiding fleet through the relay and potentially wreck shit while also forcing the rachni to redeploy their own ships to cover us
B) If they're getting ready for a major move we can begin a stare down and tie up a real fleet

also the swinging space dicks option seems like it goes with our raiding fleet doctrine the best since they can redeploy quicker
 
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The vote seems to be about specifically getting to pick something, and then stop it from being opposed by other terminus elements. Forgive me if I get official confirmation on the issue when the notion your asserting seems to directly contradict the wording of the vote option. Point in case, a voter suggested we could use it to decide terminus ardak Yakshi policy, and Poptart weighed in to acknowledge there creativity in seeing that possibility.
No, the VOLUS get to pick.
Just like they would get to pick what to give us if we asked for tech.
Those were the options:
[ ][FAVOR] Ask for something on behalf of the Terminus Alliance, which they will pick, in exchange for one vote of your choice passed without a veto in the Council.
[ ][FAVOR] Investment. The finances of Irune are without equal. You want that money moving to prop up enterprises within your space, on generous terms.
[ ][FAVOR] Tech transfers. They'll run the risk of offending the Council with this, so you won't get much or the really good shit, but the Volus really owe you one, so they'll float you some less flashy stuff. Perhaps something...dual-use...for the discerning customer?
ASK: Diplomacy
INVESTMENT: Economy
TECH TRANSFER: Tech
 
@PoptartProdigy can you chime in on uju32 assessment that we won't be able to control what we use the favor for? It seems counter intuitive for us to trade a favor with a rival polity who's hands are tied and somehow gain a favor we have less control of from nominal allies, but clearly some people are of the opinion this is the case. Could we get some clarification.
We don't get to decide what the Alliance will use the favor for.

What we get in exchange, is something we do get to decide how to use: some policy for the Alliance that goes through and cannot be vetoed.

It seems likely that the Volus favor will be used in some fashion related to unfucking some part of the Alliance economy, which would indirectly be good for us, but that's not certain. But that option isn't really about the favor anymore, it's about getting a vote through the Alliance Council without possibility of it being vetoed.
 
No, the VOLUS get to pick.
Just like they would get to pick what to give us if we asked for tech.
Those were the options:

ASK: Diplomacy
INVESTMENT: Economy
TECH TRANSFER: Tech
That's them picking what the volus give them, not what we get from them in turn. This seems to be a communication issue between us. We will not get to choose what terminus uses this favor for, but I'd say odds are two to one in favor of financial investment. Afterall, their the poorer state.

We do get to choose what we use this anti veto on. We have a nominally strong political faction in terminus. Odds are we can get something worthwhile out of this. I doubt poptart has given us a trap vote option.
What we get in exchange, is something we do get to decide how to use: some policy for the Alliance that goes through and cannot be vetoed.
Yes, this is what I mean by favor, which I will henceforth refer to as the Anti-Veto for clarity sake.
 
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[X][FAVOR] Ask for something on behalf of the Terminus Alliance, which they will pick, in exchange for one vote of your choice passed without a veto in the Council.
[X][PLAN] Plan Ardat-Yakshi Normalization

I know people are looking for harder/more material benefits for using the favor on the Ardat Yakshi, rather than it being just "moral grandstanding". I'll ignore the benefits to the Ardat Yakshi themselves, as those've already been covered. I'll assume that by treating them as Personnel, and treating the condition as a health issue, that they'll generate very few "hero" class characters for the Terminus, so minimal military, intelligence, or research benefits, so those can be ignored too.

1) This can lead to the establishment of one of the first truly federal police forces in the Terminus, significantly accelerating centralization and offering a lever to reduce local corruption.

2) If the Terminus is handling the Ardat Yakshi competently and rationally, while the Citadel is devolving into witch hunts, that might lead to some Asari colonies defecting to the Terminus, bringing with them signicant numbers of people, their economies, and new technologies. I like to think of it as an investment that'll bring massive returns in the long run. If nothing else, it'll likely bring a large number of immigrants our way.

3) Bringing this to the rest of the Terminus's attention will bring us significant soft power, as we're seen to be putting the interests of the Terminus and Terminus citizens over the interests of Virmire. We wouldn't be just protecting ourselves against rogue Ardat Yakshi while they knowing that they were wreaking havoc and killing innocent people in the rest of the Terminus who aren't even aware of their existence. And the favor is key to making sure that the mass murderers, and only the mass murderers, are being targeted instead of innocents.
 
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[X][EXTINCTION] Only bombard worthless rocks. You want to preserve anything you know to contain valuable resources or facilities, but there's no harm in scratching the worthless asteroids that the Rachni occupy purely to be a pain in the ass off the list.

[X][MAROON] Conventionally. Deploy the 2nd Battle Fleet to Maroon Sea. Have one of your raiding fleets pick up patrol duties in Sentry Omega. That will provide a powerful deterrent to any attempts at moving in, and if the rachni try anyway, you should be able to hold long enough to bring in reinforcements.

[X][FAVOR] Ask for something on behalf of the Terminus Alliance, which they will pick, in exchange for one vote of your choice passed without a veto in the Council.

[X][PLAN] Plan Choices.

I'm willing to switch to uju's plan, seeing if we can make it work with spreading the information to our faction of the Cooperatives seems like a worthy risk.
 
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@PoptartProdigy can you chime in on uju32 assessment that we won't be able to control what we use the favor for? It seems counter intuitive for us to trade a favor with a rival polity who's hands are tied and somehow gain a favor we have less control of from nominal allies, but clearly some people are of the opinion this is the case. Could we get some clarification.

We dont get to decide. The VOLUS dont get to decide. When you involve third parties, they get a say.
We will both have to go to our sides and see what they can agree on; if either side balks, or is only willing to go so far, thats it.
And the Volus arent great at diplomacy.

Its the same reason why I passed over taking []Technology from them; the Citadel gets a veto on what the volus can sell to outsiders.

Stick to shit we know the Volus are good at.
They are good at money, not talking people around.
Keep that in mind.
The Terminus picks the favor they ask from the Volus. You pick the legislation you want waved through the Terminus Council. I believe we're in a state of violent agreement on this one.
 
That's them picking what the volus give them, not what we get from them in turn. This seems to be a communication issue between us. We will not get to choose what terminus uses this favor for, but I'd say odds are two to one in favor of financial investment. Afterall, their the poorer state.

We do get to choose what we use this anti veto on. We have a nominally strong political faction in terminus. Odds are we can get something worthwhile out of this. I doubt poptart has given us a trap vote option.
That is making the dangerous assumption that other people's priorities are our own.

There are 8 other nations here in the Terminus. We dont know them very well, or for very long so far.
We can make no assumptions on what they consider critical or important vis a vis the Citadel. Especially since some of them bear a grudge for being abandoned IIRC.

Our own former PM thought it was more important to create a state religion than to pay pensions to the families of dead soldiers, and squandered First Fleet. Significant chunks of our Ministry of Finance at the beginning of this quest were embezzling the military budget with the Rachni literally a relay away.

And the Ardat-Yakshi thought it was a good idea to try to kill their nation's best admiral.
 
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[X][EXTINCTION] Bombard almost everything besides locations of particular value. While some locations the Rachni occupy hold value in mundane resources and infrastructure, they're nothing we can't replicate ourselves or get elsewhere with little issue. However a few places hold unique or extremely valuable resources that are absolutely worth the effort of taking by force such as Precursor ruins and significant Eezo deposits.
[X][MAROON] Conventionally. Deploy the 2nd Battle Fleet to Maroon Sea. Have one of your raiding fleets pick up patrol duties in Sentry Omega. That will provide a powerful deterrent to any attempts at moving in, and if the rachni try anyway, you should be able to hold long enough to bring in reinforcements.
[X][FAVOR] Ask for something on behalf of the Terminus Alliance, which they will pick, in exchange for one vote of your choice passed without a veto in the Council.

[X][PLAN] Plan Business as usual even if they are Ardat-Yakshi.
 
[X][EXTINCTION] Bombard almost everything besides locations of particular value. While some locations the Rachni occupy hold value in mundane resources and infrastructure, they're nothing we can't replicate ourselves or get elsewhere with little issue. However a few places hold unique or extremely valuable resources that are absolutely worth the effort of taking by force such as Precursor ruins and significant Eezo deposits.
[X][MAROON] Conventionally. Deploy the 2nd Battle Fleet to Maroon Sea. Have one of your raiding fleets pick up patrol duties in Sentry Omega. That will provide a powerful deterrent to any attempts at moving in, and if the rachni try anyway, you should be able to hold long enough to bring in reinforcements.
[X][FAVOR] Investment. The finances of Irune are without equal. You want that money moving to prop up enterprises within your space, on generous terms.
 
The Terminus picks the favor they ask from the Volus. You pick the legislation you want waved through the Terminus Council. I believe we're in a state of violent agreement on this one.
Thank you.
That is making the dangerous assumption that other people's priorities are our own.

There are 8 other nations here in the Terminus. We dont know them very well, or for very long so far.
We can make no assumptions on what they consider critical or important vis a vis the Citadel. Especially since some of them bear a grudge for being abandoned IIRC.

Our own former PM thought it was more important to create a state religion than to pay pensions to the families of dead soldiers, and squandered First Fleet. Significant chunks of our Ministry of Finance at the beginning of this quest were embezzling the military budget with the Rachni literally a relay away.

And the Ardat-Yakshi thought it was a good idea to try to kill their nation's best admiral.
Fair. We don't know what the Terminus alliance will use the favor for. I doubt they'll use it poorly. Afterall, if they were the kind of terrible leader we replaced, they wouldn't have managed to survive the Rachni and grow stronger as a state. Your being a tad pessimistic here.

Regardless, I'm comfortable in my assumption we will get something worthwhile passed with this, and it serves an extra purpose in distracting from the maroon sea negative pr. We'll simply have to agree to disagree on this issue.
 
The reason why I'm voting for the favor is simple: I think it's very likely that the TA will look at the volus and go "invest please," and the economic development over the rest of the TA is let's call it uneven. In particular, two of the poorest nations are the ones who happen to be in our corner:
The Remnant and the Confederacy are both eager to talk to the new power player in the Alliance, particularly when that player speaks their language so fluently. They are, after all, both very small polities, both in terms of space controlled and population. Of the three of your polities, you alone came out the other side having grown. The Rachni rarely leave survivors, the way you were left. While you had the unique position of being able to prosper thanks to your former status as the Citadel's darling, and a key pivot point for Citadel power in the region, they did not. They have always been weak -- subordinates in the Cooperatives, reliant on whatever the others felt like throwing out.

Now, they are still subordinate, frankly. The power imbalance is too great for anything else. But now they are aligned to you -- and you bring a far keener awareness of their interests and desires to the table.

Within the Cooperatives, you have founded the start of your own faction; the Remnant and Frontier Confederacy largely play according to your lead, now. The three of you can present a far louder and more competitive voice in how the Cooperatives advocate for courses of action, now. +20 to relations and attention with them both. -32,000 credits.
Volus investment will get a lot more bang for its buck in those places than it will for us. I would like to strengthen the other nations in our subfaction and also gain political sway in the TA as a whole.

Can we benefit from the investment? Yes, I think the case for that is very convincing. But we're no longer just Virmire on our own, we are a constituent polity of an alliance and we need to get used to thinking about what's best for our team as a whole, not just for us individually. And I'd rather spend this AP on getting the volus to help the rest of the TA, which contains a number of less-developed economies that need help more badly than we do, than on getting the volus to invest in us and then needing to budget further AP later to help the rest of the TA out of our larger economy.
 
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The reason why I'm voting for the favor is simple: I think it's very likely that the TA will look at the volus and go "invest please," and the economic development over the rest of the TA is let's call it uneven. In particular, two of the poorest nations are the ones who happen to be in our corner:
...or we could invest in these polities ourselves AFTER our economy is improved by the Volus?
 
[X][EXTINCTION] Bombard almost everything besides locations of particular value. While some locations the Rachni occupy hold value in mundane resources and infrastructure, they're nothing we can't replicate ourselves or get elsewhere with little issue. However a few places hold unique or extremely valuable resources that are absolutely worth the effort of taking by force such as Precursor ruins and significant Eezo deposits.
[X][MAROON] Conventionally. Deploy the 2nd Battle Fleet to Maroon Sea. Have one of your raiding fleets pick up patrol duties in Sentry Omega. That will provide a powerful deterrent to any attempts at moving in, and if the rachni try anyway, you should be able to hold long enough to bring in reinforcements.
[X][FAVOR] Investment. The finances of Irune are without equal. You want that money moving to prop up enterprises within your space, on generous terms.
 
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