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Wild Card: A Fallout New Vegas Post-Game Quest

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I've considered the economic impact of taking down the three casino families- costly, sure, but leaving oligarchical rich families who were already looking to mess with the balance of power *before* we stepped into picture around to just try it again would be even stupider. It's a moral decision, sure, but it's also dismantling other power players who have demonstrated morally bankrupt backstabbing tendencies before. Building a new city-state on a foundation of "and then we didn't deal with the sex slaving terrorists or the cannibals and were shocked when that turned out to be a problem later" would be a terrible plan.
 
Gadjo said:
I've considered the economic impact of taking down the three casino families- costly, sure, but leaving oligarchical rich families who were already looking to mess with the balance of power *before* we stepped into picture around to just try it again would be even stupider. It's a moral decision, sure, but it's also dismantling other power players who have demonstrated morally bankrupt backstabbing tendencies before. Building a new city-state on a foundation of "and then we didn't deal with the sex slaving terrorists or the cannibals and were shocked when that turned out to be a problem later" would be a terrible plan.
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But isn't the point that they're not cannibals (anymore)? Or rather the attempt to return them to the bad old days (when they were cannibals) failed.
 
[X] Plan: Second Chances for the Lesser Evil.

[X] Plan: Don't Rock the Boat... for Now

I'm convinced to approval vote for Second Chances for the Lesser Evil. However, I think destroying the White Gloves is kind of just...weird and bad, LOL? Like, there's nothing wrong with being a snob, which, once you get rid of the cannibals in their ranks, is essentially their worst crime (other than being a casino owner group, depending on how you look at it). Keep New Vegas Weird!
 
TheMaskedReader said:
[X] Plan: Second Chances for the Lesser Evil.

[X] Plan: Don't Rock the Boat... for Now

I'm convinced to approval vote for Second Chances for the Lesser Evil. However, I think destroying the White Gloves is kind of just...weird and bad, LOL? Like, there's nothing wrong with being a snob, which, once you get rid of the cannibals in their ranks, is essentially their worst crime (other than being a casino owner group, depending on how you look at it). Keep New Vegas Weird!
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You mean aside from them having monopolistic control over food in the city, and explicitly trying to keep prices high to profit off of them? And having bougie fucks sneering at the poors isn't weird, it's the the norm.
 
Just as a heads-up, if the vote remains this close between fairly divergent plans, I will probably do a run-off between the top two, since this seems to be a fairly contentious issue and I'd like a convincing majority on it.
 
The Laurent said:
But isn't the point that they're not cannibals (anymore)? Or rather the attempt to return them to the bad old days (when they were cannibals) failed.
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Yeah, I don't get what people don't understand that the White Gloves are former cannibals and outright refuse to do it. Which is what pisses off the guys that do and said supporters even leave over it.

<o>U<o> said:
Driving our food management out of the strip so brahmin barons can swoop is less than advisable, actually
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And this is what I mean when I say people have a bad habit of not thinking things through when they base decisions solely on morality: People want to drive out our food management from the strip? Well hope they like the idea of the Brahmin Barons, AKA one of the lead causes of corruption in the NCR, likely gaining a huge foot hold in the strip.
 
This isn't even morality, it's a change in management and removing wildcards. Outsiders would find it more painful to get a foothold than the problem already entrenched.

[X] Plan: Strip-ped Clean
 
Here is the thing people seem to be missing, a lot of people are fine with removing the Omertas even if it . It's kicking out all the freaking Casino revenue by removing all the casino tribes that people find amazingly stupid and short sighted. Especially since we were literally warned that removing the Omertas alone would cost us a third of the strip revenue.

Then you have people using the excuse to remove the White Gloves because they used to be cannibals. While missing that they outright abandoned that lifestyle and even refused in this timeline.
 
That's exactly the sort of logic that gets House killed in quite a few timelines.

If a group of entrenched snakes is, in universe never mind metagaming, quite clearly trouble and you can make a clean sweep- while opening up positions for your own loyalists- you take it.
 
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Okay, now people are blatantly showing that they just want to control everything and refuse to acknowledge any other points. The snake thing only applies to the Omertas. The White Gloves while being former cannibals are no longer cannibals, on top of that they aren't really snakes since as far as I remember the majority of them did follow the contract set by House originally. The guys at the Top are also as far as I remember not actually bad with Benny being the traitor of the group.

Basically it seems like SB/SBV's typical control freak tendencies where some players want to control everything and refuse to share power with anyone else. Which as a reminder is literally the exact same shit people called out House on as making him unfit to rule New Vegas.

Let me say this again, you can't pretend to be better than House while insisting on controlling everything and looking for any excuse to claim total power.
 
[X] Plan: Strip-ped Clean
-[X][OMERTAS] Took out the whole murderous bunch.
-[X][GLOVES] Exposed them to the world.
-[X][CHAIRS] Incorporated them into your efforts.

I've been convinced that the stains in the carpet are worth it to take out the Omertas.

As for the White Glove Society, I think they're pretensious elitist snobs. I don't respect them! Smear their reputation, they've only had it for like five years. :p
 
Red Bovine said:
Okay, now people are blatantly showing that they just want to control everything and refuse to acknowledge any other points. The snake thing only applies to the Omertas. The White Gloves while being former cannibals are no longer cannibals, on top of that they aren't really snakes since as far as I remember the majority of them did follow the contract set by House originally. The guys at the Top are also as far as I remember not actually bad with Benny being the traitor of the group.

Basically it seems like SB/SBV's typical control freak tendencies where some players want to control everything and refuse to share power with anyone else. Which as a reminder is literally the exact same shit people called out House on as making him unfit to rule New Vegas.

Let me say this again, you can't pretend to be better than House while insisting on controlling everything and looking for any excuse to claim total power.
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..You can, though? We're hardly against collaboration, we're just not...obligingly waiting for trouble from the tribes that are an entrenched, resistant power structure that on top of everything about the Omertas were quite happy to go full murdercannibal and Legion in some timelines.

If anything this is us pulling the Top into the Vegas power structure.

"With each group of ex-tribals deeply entrenched in their seats of power and each quite well-armed."

This is basically a powder keg if you don't address it. Add in bonuses like the NCR favor and it's a case of short term costs, long term gains.
 
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I think people are vastly underestimating both the difficulty of building your economy from scorched earth and the human cost of suffering that would result.

I assure you guys, a destitute populace in the middle of the desert with no diplomatic or tourist incentives would be far worse than having an untrustworthy power bloc with a snowballs chance in hell standing up to our firepower. We're literally hurting our populace because we're afraid of having a rival- I can't believe that's being considered the moral choice.

I mean the Omertas have to go but the leading plan is profoundly shortsighted to me. Yeah, casino bad, but so is famine.
 
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AsuraAtlas said:
I think people are vastly underestimating both the difficulty of building your economy from scorched earth and the human cost of suffering that would result.

I assure you guys, a starving populace in the desert with no diplomatic or tourist incentives would be far worse than having a rival power bloc with a snowballs chance in hell standing up to our firepower.

I mean the Omertas have to go but destroying what was New Vegas because casino bad is profoundly shortsighted to me.
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Omertas are going for obvious reasons, the White Gloves's gimmick is outright snobbery and not being useful and we get NCR goodwill to try and mitigate problems down the road that way, and the Chairmen option is "do nothing" or "make them part of the government" with the latter flat out depicting them as useful.
 
AsuraAtlas said:
I think people are vastly underestimating both the difficulty of building your economy from scorched earth and the human cost of suffering that would result.

I assure you guys, a starving populace in the desert with no diplomatic or tourist incentives would be far worse than having a rival power bloc with a snowballs chance in hell standing up to our firepower.

I mean the Omertas have to go but destroying what was New Vegas because casino bad is profoundly shortsighted to me.
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But it's not scorched earth? The Mojave has a greater economy than just the casinos on the strip, they just suck up all the wealth and development because that's all House cared to cultivate under his rule. We're about to undergo a period of vast economic development and growth which will increase the quality of life for most people living in the mojave by orders of magnitude. Destroying the toxic and predatory parts of New Vegas in order to pave the way for a better future is worth the short term costs. And like others have said, we're about to lose most of our tourism income from the lack of NCR soldiers in the mojave anyway, so now's the perfect time to clean house and renovate our economy in a different direction. Our energy and water sales to the NCR will keep us afloat, alongside any war loot we gained from our actions so far, until we've finished that process.
 
Short term not rocking the boat and future pains without convenient "yeet buttons" vs short term crisis/dilemmas that will result in more stable long term outcomes.
 
If we are going to get rid of or cripple all the Vegas casino factions then we NEED a backup plan to fix the economy or securitron army or no we are not going to last very long as a political entity. The only other revenue source I can think of outside of gambling is weapons manufacturing and that's about it. Between the gunrunners, the remnants of the silver rush, our alliance with the Boomers, the mountain of tech likely left over after the courier trounced the Brotherhood of Steel chapter (I personally think that was a really really bad choice on the part of the questers) access to the big mountain research facility we could easily THE largest purveyors of high tech weapons, armor, and resources in the entire west coast. But outside of that nothing really comes to mind, and weapons manufacturing isn't going to be enough to replace the lost revenue and stability removing all the strip factions from power (or incorporating them in the case of the chairmen) is going to cause.

Doctor Elsewhere said:
And like others have said, we're about to lose most of our tourism income from the lack of NCR soldiers in the mojave anyway, so now's the perfect time to clean house and renovate our economy in a different direction.
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In what direction exactly can we renovate our economy towards? Give me an example, show me a path forward for the people of Vegas aside from what I just pointed out.
 
Doctor Elsewhere said:
But it's not scorched earth? The Mojave has a greater economy than just the casinos on the strip, they just suck up all the wealth and development because that's all House cared to cultivate under his rule. We're about to undergo a period of vast economic development and growth which will increase the quality of life for most people living in the mojave by orders of magnitude. Destroying the toxic and predatory parts of New Vegas in order to pave the way for a better future is worth the short term costs. And like others have said, we're about to lose most of our tourism income from the lack of NCR soldiers in the mojave anyway, so now's the perfect time to clean house and renovate our economy in a different direction. Our energy and water sales to the NCR will keep us afloat, alongside any war loot we gained from our actions so far, until we've finished that process.
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It's explicitly stated that each of the family's represent a third of the strips economy, so no, we don't have anything greater. I don't think the outskirt towns will be even a hundredth of the way to what we need, so yes, this is scorched earth. And It wasn't soldiers who were New Vegas's primary income- it was wealthy NCR citizens. Citizens who would now have no reason to come, ever, and now we're just a giant population in the middle of the desert. We have military might, we have energy, and we're a giant population in the middle of the desert. With no economy.
Ugolino said:
Short term not rocking the boat and future pains without convenient "yeet buttons" vs short term crisis/dilemmas that will result in more stable long term outcomes.
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Short term crisis has a high chance of hurting innocent people and a probable chance of future pains without "yeet buttons."
 
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AsuraAtlas said:
It's explicitly stated that each of the family's represent a third of the strips economy, so no, we don't have anything greater. I don't think the outskirt towns will be even a hundredth of the way to what we need, so yes, this is scorched earth. And It wasn't soldiers who were New Vegas's primary income- it was wealthy NCR citizens. Citizens who would now have no reason to come, ever, and now we're just a giant population in the middle of the desert. We have military might, we have energy, and we're a giant population in the middle of the desert. With no economy.

Short term crisis has a high chance of hurting innocent people and a probable chance of future pains without "yeet buttons."
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Do you think letting the White Gloves meddle, the Omertas do their thing, or not having the Chairmen explicitly be infrastructure buffs would hurt innocent people?
 
Ugolino said:
Do you think letting the White Gloves meddle, the Omertas do their thing, or not having the Chairmen explicitly be infrastructure buffs would hurt innocent people?
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I don't care about the Omertas, why do you think the Chairmen as government would be more useful than than having an economy, and no, I think we could stop them. With our giant army of robots. Robot armies might have difficulty building a society in the irradiated wasteland. Especially in the middle of the previous societal collapse.
 
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Nomadic Maniac said:
In what direction exactly can we renovate our economy towards? Give me an example, show me a path forward for the people of Vegas aside from what I just pointed out.
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Economic and industrial development, alongside resource extraction. The manufacturing of steel and concrete already has the machinery for it within the mojave with H&H Steel Headquarters, Quarry Junction, and the concrete plant outside Boulder City. The construction of housing and infrastructure within the Mojave would generate jobs and internal economic growth while also working to improve the basic living conditions of the average mojave resident. Various cottage industries of basic consumer goods could be spun up into larger operations, especially the development of medicines through the followers of the apocalypse, which would foster an internal consumer base through the wages the workers earn from their employment in turn. I could go on, but we've had so many planquests on SV dealing with countries developing an economy after a revolutionary upheaval at this point I would think most voters would get the jist of things by this point.
 
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