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East Africa 1930: An ORBAT Quest

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We did get it, as we should have. Now we just need to get enough better boats for our needs that we can scrap the Chikuma and turn it into tank armour.

As a purely academic exercise while waiting for actual quest updates, going to wishlist about an idealized Reewiin Carabinavy because I'm bored:
  • As a flagship, probably a heavy destroyer/destroyer leader that blurs the line into being a very short ranged cruiser as an upgrade on the Chikuma. In practice, this is likely the least useful thing, but it'd be a decent fleet-in-being given what's normally in the Indian Ocean. If you could make a cross between Yuubari and a three-turret Mogador, that'd be perfect.
  • A whole bunch of small river gunboats (think Vietnam-era US river monitors or PBRs). The Webi Jubba, iirc, forms our northeastern border, and it's in an area that will be hard to patrol conventionally. Take a ~20 ton shallow draught river boat design with a pair of diesels, give it some 13.2s in armoured turrets, a medium mortar for fire support, and enough supplies to be able to spend a while away from home, and let them go free to harass any attack from the north. This is the "I don't like Italy" point; most of the others are "I don't like Japan/Britain"
  • Similarly, motor torpedo boats. If I could pick the ideal ones, it'd be the S18-series schnellboote, since it'd let us standardize on diesel fuel for most things (which is cheaper) and the E-boats did well in rougher seas like what we'd encounter on the ocean. Get a whole bunch of these to scare people away from our coasts. They can also double as minelayers; the Japanese were not well known for superbly effective minesweeping.
  • I'd like to get a whole bunch of tiny subs. Not quite midget subs, but we should be open with these being short-ranged coastal boats so that the British don't get spooked by thinking that we're going to be hitting ships in the Gulf of Aden. The Soviet M-class boats are kinda like what I'd want, with a focus on using them as a defence against hostile warships approaching Reewiin (so better submerged speeds, heavier torpedo armament, worse surfaced performance).
  • Lastly, I'd like a fair number of light/medium bombers trained for naval reconnaissance and attack (and hey, they can even help out in a land campaign!). Having even a small force of modern airplanes means any naval attacker needs to send carriers for escort, and suddenly you're now taking the Kido Butai away from where it's otherwise needed and putting it at risk of submarine attacks.
 
C_Z said:
Lastly, I'd like a fair number of light/medium bombers trained for naval reconnaissance and attack
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As much as id like that, I find it extremely unlikely due to how expensive planes are, that and our options are more than likely limited to Japanese aircraft (as I doubt Britain would be willing to sell us any) which are kinda meh rn when it comes to medium bomber options but they do have some decent light aircraft.

I think that rn, medium bomber wise the Japanese only have the Ki-20, and only 6 of them with production of the K-1 and K-2 starting later this year.

Though we could probably get fairly decent boats from the Japanese if we'd like to, maybe we could also get em cheaper than anywhere else.
 
So I've had a look around and as far as I can tell only the Soukoutei-class armored boats are in service with the Japanese at the moment.

(At least among the things classified as boats)

Edit: okay so I spent a few more hours looking into it and the Chidori-class are apparently torpedo boats according to wikipedia that start production in 31 and first entered service in 33
 
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Turn 14 Vote: April 1933
  • Threadmarks

    • Turn 14 Vote: April 1933

    Project Development

    Ongoing Projects

    [X] Analysis: The Foreigners Have Some Good Ideas - Send observation teams overseas to take the best ideas from foreign nations. (3 Months Remain) ☑◻
    [X] Send typed-out contact info along with our observation team should they find foreign officers who are open to come teach in Reewiin.
    [X] Marksmanship Training - With an average of twenty rounds per man per year, marksmanship is of very poor quality. Regular range training will begin to improve this, not only for the infantry but for the cavalry and artillery too.
    [X] Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge. (9 Months Remain, free slot) ☑◻◻◻

    Completed Projects

    [X] Establish the Ordnance Office - Developing an arms industry from scratch will take time and effort. An Ordnance Office will allow us to delegate some of that work to specialists. (Constant Investment.)
    [X] Production Licensing: Machine Guns - Attempt to buy the rights to produce the ZB vz.30 in 6.5×50 mmSR. (Complete!) ☑☑☑☑
    [X] Establish the Carabinieri Oversight Office - No one really keeps an eye on the paramilitary police force that keeps watch over the nation. If the force is to be reformed and re-established in a new role, then oversight is needed at the very least. (Constant Investment.)
    [X] Organisational Reform: Wilderness Rangers - The Carabinieri is responsible for massive tracts of rural land. A specialist ranger unit trained in long-distance patrol and survival would be useful to the force as a whole. (Complete!) ☑☑☑

    Kismayo-Turkana Line:
    Progress, Marsabit-Turkana: 79% (Est. completion October 1933)

    Weapon Orders, and Production:
    Progress, Rifle Deliveries: 100%, deliveries complete.
    Progress, Rifle Factory: 3 rifles per day, continuing.

    Progress, LMG Deliveries: 0%, (Est. completion June 1934).
    Progress, LMG Factory: 0.5 guns per day, increasing.

    Type 3 HMG Project:
    Progress, Reverse Engineering: Experiencing delays.

    Reports

    A Future, the Cruiser

    As of March 1933, Reewiin finally has a Navy. At least, it technically has a force of ships capable of brown water operations and protecting at least some of the nation's coastline. The Republic of Reewiin Carabinieri Ship Kutulo is now the headquarters ship of the Reewiin Maritime Carabinieri Force, which expands the small carabinieri force on Lake Turkana significantly.

    A number of small coastal craft have been acquired, little more than traditional Dhows originally intended for fishing but now being pressed into patrol duties by small squads of riflemen with minimal organisation. While poorly formed, they do at least exist.

    Gain one (1) investment point to be spent in the new Maritime Carabinieri Force area.

    Council Liaisons

    Six new members have joined the council. The three civilians, one from the arms industry, rail industry and the unions, are polite and diffident, recognising their role as purely advisory. The three servicemen, however, are keen to have their opinions heard. The first point for vigorous discussion is how many of them there should be - The newly formed RCMF have sent along a delegate on the basis that each service should be represented, but the Army representative is protesting on the basis that the agreement was equal representation for all services and he is faced with two members of the Carabinieri. The RCMF man was holding a rifle on the northern frontier last month, surely he is more a Carabineer than a sailor?

    All three men are reminded that their role is advisory and they are only here to observe, report and provide expert insight. Nevertheless, they will likely lobby for their preferred decisions, and in cases where the council is deadlocked their influence will almost certainly make a notable difference.

    The QMs will now tiebreak your plans if you can't. Surely you will all agree on the best courses of action and this will never come up… right?

    Information Review: Government

    The report from the civilian government has been submitted and it is worrying reading. The sympathetic domestic policy faction in the government seems to have lost some power in recent months, and the foreign policy faction is deeply concerned about the path the Reewiin Army is on. Specifically, their concern is that during wartime the Reewiin will only be able to field 16,000 men under arms, and most of those are Carabinieri forces dispersed across the interior. There is no formal system for reservists or consideration of conscription in the event of war. Reewiin has around 130,000 military aged males, but as of this month, the rifle factory is producing guns that are going directly into storage for lack of men to carry them.

    Currently the Italians and British could crush us like a bug, but even more concerning, we would probably lose to the Ethiopians. This situation must be addressed. The government wants you to reach either 30,000 men immediately available or 60,000 men with a month's notice in the next two years. Preferably both.

    Other Business

    The first ZB vz.30 machine gun has been finished at the new annex in the rifle factory. Production is now slowly ramping up, and the Army will be fully equipped with the new weapons by the middle of next year.

    The Carabinieri Rangers are now set up, drawing from the best and brightest of the regular Carabinieri to produce a crack patrol platoon in each of the regional brigades. They have been trained in wilderness survival, reconnaissance and long range patrolling and are in peak physical condition.

    Defence Council Investment - October 1932

    The Defence Council currently has one investment point available to be spent on any area, one investment point available to be spent in the Armaments area, one investment point available to be spent in the Reforming the Carabinieri area and one investment point to be spent in the new Maritime Carabinieri Force area.

    Industry and Logistics


    Armaments
    [ ] Weapon Testing: Anti-Air Weapons - The Ordnance Office will buy a handful of machine guns and cannons from around the world and test them until they break. Afterwards, they will make recommendations to the Defence Council on the topic of AA weapons. (6-Month Investment. Recommendations will be made at the end of this process.)

    [ ] Weapon Testing: Anti-Tank Weapons - The Ordnance Office will research a handful of field guns and large calibre rifles from around the world. Afterwards, they will make recommendations to the Defence Council on the topic of AT weapons. (6-Month Investment. Recommendations will be made at the end of this process.)

    [ ] Weapon Testing: Artillery Weapons - The Ordnance Office will research a handful of field guns and howitzers from around the world. Afterwards, they will make recommendations to the Defence Council on the topic of artillery weapons. (6-Month Investment. Recommendations will be made at the end of this process.)

    [ ] Increase Funding: Type 3 - By funnelling additional investment towards the Type 3 project, it may be possible to have a prototype ready faster. (6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Cancellation: Type 3 - If the problems with the Type 3 are insurmountable, cancelling the programme could free up much-needed national resources for the design and production of other arms. This does not cost an investment point and can be done at any time. (Free.)

    [ ] Emergency Purchase - Buy weapons directly from any available source. Write in the weapon and quantity. Emergency purchases that the government views as overly large, precipitous or having been made without due consideration may have consequences. If the requested weapon is not approved for export by the selling country you could get nothing. (3-Month Investment. Variable delivery time. Can be selected multiple times.)

    [ ] Cancellation: Arisaka Type 38 - We have enough 6.5mm rifles to cover all of our needs and our order is complete. Stop purchasing them from the factory. This does not cost an investment point and can be done at any time. (Free.)

    [ ] Restructure the Ordnance Office - Reduce staffing in the Ordnance Office to retain oversight of programs in progress and free up capital for investment elsewhere. This does not cost an investment point and can be done at any time. (3-Month Wait.)

    Breeding and Working
    [ ] Restructure the Veterinary Oversight Office - To reduce operational costs the Veterinary Oversight Office has been shrunk significantly. Funding and personnel would allow the Office to perform specialised tasks. (3 Months, Constant Investment)

    Doctrine and Organisation


    DCIRRO
    [ ] Establish the Information Review Team - This group will be tasked with drafting reports on various arms of the internal structure of Reewiin. (12-Month Investment. Will enable additional work in this specific area, including write-in Information Review requests.)

    [ ] Information Review: Government - Determine what the civilian government wants out of their armed forces. (3-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Analysis: Ethiopia - Long-term analysis of the optimal army to defend Reewiin against our eternal enemy, Ethiopia. (6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Analysis: Britain - Long-term analysis of the optimal army to defend Reewiin against our eternal enemy, Britain. (6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Analysis: Italy - Long-term analysis of the optimal army to defend Reewiin against our eternal enemy, Italy. (6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Analysis: The Foreigners Have Some Good Ideas - Send observation teams overseas to take the best ideas from foreign nations. (6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Send Observers: Bolivia - Send a military attaché to learn from the Bolivian army's experiences on the Chaco front. (Until recalled or conflict ends)

    [ ] Send Observers: Paraguay - Send a military attaché to learn from the Paraguayan army's experiences on the Chaco front. (Until recalled or conflict ends)

    Reforming the Carabinieri
    [ ] Restructure the Carabinieri Office - Reduce staffing in the Carabinieri Office to retain oversight of programs in progress and free up capital for investment elsewhere. This does not cost an investment point and can be done at any time. (3-Month Wait.)

    [ ] Enlarge the Carabinieri - Currently, Reewiin maintains a standing Carabinieri of 10,000 men organised into three regional commands each controlling a set of loosely organised companies. There are several options for enlarging this; select one or more:
    [ ] Establish a formal reservist force from ex-Carabinieri. This is unlikely to create a significantly larger force, since Carabinieri tend to serve for longer than regular soldiers. (6-Month Investment)
    [ ] Increase recruitment - Write in the desired force size and structure. (Variable Investment)
    [ ] Write in.

    Reforming the Army
    [ ] Manoeuvre Training - The Army Review has determined that Reewiin's standing military is not currently fit for the task. Field manoeuvres will begin to improve this. (6-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge.
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.

    [ ] Cavalry Training - The Cavalry are loath to conduct operations en-masse, leaving them poorly equipped for the field. Regular deployments into central Reewiin will begin to improve this. (6-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.

    [ ] Artillery Training - Our artillery capability is doctrinally obsolescent, with all firing conducted over open sights. More realistic training will begin to improve this. (6-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge.
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.

    [ ] Establish an Officer Academy - Our officers are currently trained in an ad-hoc fashion. The establishment of a proper Academy would allow us to educate more officers, and provide a centre for spreading doctrinal advances across the military by running a series of advanced courses and bringing able officers back as instructors. (12-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge. (Reduces to 6-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge. (Reduces to 6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Establish an Infantry School - Our riflemen are currently trained in an ad-hoc fashion. The establishment of a proper School would allow us to drill our soldiers in more advanced tactics and provide a single baseline for all of our forces, so that officers can more easily assume command of troops they have not trained with. (12-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge. (Reduces to 6-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge. (Reduces to 6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Enlarge the Officers Corps - The Army of Reewiin lacks many things, one of which is junior officers. While this is not a significant issue at the high level, it leaves the junior officers seriously overworked. Beginning a major drive to recruit and train new officers will shift this issue towards the positive. (12-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Enlarge the Army - Currently, Reewiin maintains a standing Army of 6,000 men organised into six effective battalions. There are several options for enlarging this, and we can create formations and units that we do not currently have the equipment for if we want. It's perfectly possible to specify an artillery division is to be formed and only then start looking for an artillery piece to equip it. Select one or more:
    [ ] Establish a more formal reservist force from those claiming their pension. - Write in the desired force size and structure. (12-Month Investment)
    [ ] Increase recruitment and expand existing formations - Write in the desired force size and structure. (Variable Investment, 6-12 months)
    [ ] Increase recruitment and create entirely new formations - Write in the desired force size and structure. (Variable Investment, 12-24 months)
    [ ] Increase recruitment and split up current formations as cadres for the new recruits - Write in the desired force size and structure. (Variable Investment, 6-12 months)
    [ ] Institute conscription - Write in the desired force size and structure. (6-Month Investment)
    [ ] Write in.

    [ ] Confine Idle Soldiers to Barracks - We can't have the Army tarnishing its image by gambling and causing trouble on the streets! Confining the soldiers to their barracks when they don't have leave will keep them from being a nuisance. (3-Month Investment).

    Maritime Carabinieri Force


    Equipment and Logistics
    [ ] Prepare to acquire new large ships - A temporary committee will be formed to investigate options for the procurement of large ships, whether that involves purchasing ships that are in service, having them built abroad or attempting to build a ship in Reewiin. For our purposes, large ships are those of destroyer escort/high endurance cutter size and above. (3-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Prepare to acquire new small ships - A temporary committee will be formed to investigate options for the procurement of small ships, whether that involves purchasing ships that are in service, having them built abroad or building ships in Reewiin. For our purposes, small ships are torpedo boats, coastal patrol vessels and associated types. (3-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Prepare to refit the Kutulo - A temporary committee will be formed to investigate options for the refit of RRCS Kutulo, which could be a deep refit to modernise her into an acceptable cruiser for the 30s and 40s, or could be a shallow refit to rapidly improve her reliability and suitability for purpose. (3-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Establish a national fuel reserve - Reewiin is not rich in coal or oil, the lifeblood of navies. The purchase of a significant reserve of fuels would allow us to continue to operate the RMCF under blockade conditions for longer than usual, as well as allowing the government to smooth out price shocks to fuels. (9-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Construct a naval base - Currently the RMCF is based out of the commercial port facilities at Kismayo, but this state of affairs is not acceptable in the long run. We have little secure storage for arms and ammunition, we don't have proper facilities for the effective routine maintenance of our ships and the port fees are shocking. If we established a proper naval base, all of these problems would go away, although drydock facilities would still be provided by the private sector. (12-Month Investment.)
    [ ] In Kismayo, the largest port city
    [ ] In Kiyaambo, outside the capital Buur Gaabo
    [ ] Optional: Permit Japanese construction of a naval base in the selected area, with the agreement that the RMCF are able to use the facilities. (3-Month Investment, ready in 12 months.)

    Doctrine and Organisation
    [ ] Improved Training - The RMCF is completely new and knows very little, institutionally, about policing or combat at sea. More realistic training will begin to improve this, although it may be a long process. (6-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge.

    [ ] Establish a Naval Officer Academy - Our officers are currently drawn from the merchant marine and trained in an ad-hoc fashion. The establishment of a proper Academy would allow us to educate more officers, and provide a centre for spreading doctrinal advances across the military by running a series of advanced courses and bringing able officers back as instructors. (12-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge. (Reduces to 6-Month Investment.)

    [ ] Establish a Sailing School - Our sailors are currently drawn from the merchant marine and trained in an ad-hoc fashion. The establishment of a proper School would allow us to drill our sailors in better seamanship and especially the art of fighting at sea. (12-Month Investment.)
    [ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge. (Reduces to 6-Month Investment.)


    You are more than welcome to ask questions about what is acceptable as a write-in vote.
    There will be a 6-hour moratorium on voting to encourage discussion. The vote will close in three days.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Ok, do we attempt to fulfill the standing army requirements, the reserve force requirements, or both?

    Regarding the Marine Carabinieri I want to establish a fuel reserve because that seems like it would take a long time, but wouldn't mind if a naval base gets build instead.
     
    I think it's important to keep our current rifle factory to keep producing guns even if we don't need them, could sell them to Ethiopia so the Italians have a harder time later down the line.

    I think we should also create an officers and or an infantry school if we want to rapidly expand the army, otherwise I doubt we'd be able to succeed in forming an effective fighting force without relying on something like getting foreign officers which doesn't seem like a good idea.

    Navy wise we could maybe spare some funding for patrol boats later on but we have more important things to do rn and the army requires the lion's share of the budget.

    We should also take any pro Japan option, the Japanese are our friends and im sure they wouldn't backstab us/turn us into a colonial state. It's called the Co-Prosperity Sphere, not something like the Tokyo pact and as such we are totally equals with the Japanese.
     
    DegenWeeb said:
    As much as id like that, I find it extremely unlikely due to how expensive planes are, that and our options are more than likely limited to Japanese aircraft (as I doubt Britain would be willing to sell us any) which are kinda meh rn when it comes to medium bomber options but they do have some decent light aircraft.

    I think that rn, medium bomber wise the Japanese only have the Ki-20, and only 6 of them with production of the K-1 and K-2 starting later this year.

    Though we could probably get fairly decent boats from the Japanese if we'd like to, maybe we could also get em cheaper than anywhere else.
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    Yeah, this would probably be later procurement. Sadly, the two most promising options for "find a medium bomber from an obscure country that still has good performance", the Fokker G.1 and PZL.37 Łoś, are both right on the eve of war and production might be interrupted by, y'know, them getting invaded.

    However, even a few planes are a massive force multiplier. Getting a dozen aircraft would cost a fair bit, but IMO it'd have a disproportionate impact if we can afford it - hell, even just for the psychological value for our own troops, knowing that despite them getting bombed, we're also bombing the other guys back.
    Wilgus04 said:
    So I've had a look around and as far as I can tell only the Soukoutei-class armored boats are in service with the Japanese at the moment.

    (At least among the things classified as boats)

    Edit: okay so I spent a few more hours looking into it and the Chidori-class are apparently torpedo boats according to wikipedia that start production in 31 and first entered service in 33
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    Good shout on the Soukouteis, those are pretty good as a basis. I think we could try and build our own since we have a steel industry and the designs would be incredibly simple, though (I am very ambitious).
    The Chidoris are torpedo boats in the "small destroyer" way, and were not very good designs. I was thinking of something about 1/5 to 1/10th the size (think something like this)


    As for our this turn, this is the one-turn overlap plan that @Dessard and I spitballed before (I cannot remember the logic behind it and am too busy to backread), so we can use that as a starting point:
    1933Q1Q2Q3Q4
    OrdnanceOrdnanceOrdnanceOrdnance
    RangersNavyNavy(A)
    NavyChacoChacoChaco
    Foreign IdeasForeign IdeasOfficer AcademyOfficer Academy
    1934Q1Q2Q3Q4
    OrdnanceOrdnanceOrdnanceOrdnance
    (A)(A)(A)(A)
    ChacoOfficer TrainingOfficer TrainingOfficer Training
    Officer AcademyOfficer Academy(B)(B)
    1935Q1Q2Q3Q4
    OrdnanceOrdnanceOrdnanceOrdnance
    (A)(A)(A)(A)
    Officer TrainingArtillery TrainingArtillery Training???
    Expansion?Expansion?Expansion?Expansion?
    (C)(C)(C)

    Getting a new investment point is great. I'm leaning towards issuing a request for proposals for small ships, because it'll give our troops something to train on while prices are low because of the Great Depression, building a naval base, and then doing all the training actions. Large warships are currently kinda blegh, we should wait a few years. This clearly means we don't have the "navy" tasks in the Carabinieri slot anymore.

    The Liaisions thing is fine. Amusing, but fine.

    I think the "oh no we have too many guns" issue isn't actually a problem. The world's getting more exciting, and having a stockpile of guns that we can sell in the future for cash isn't a bad thing. Two years to expand the army is a bit a crunch, since we were planning on doing the 4-quarter Officer Academy, 4-quarter Officer Training, and then expanding. However, Carabinieri expansion and restructuring might be a solution to this? If we triple its size, then we hit our target just by doing that, and the Carabinieri slot just opened up. We'll probably want to do a write-in option to improve Carabinieri training first, though.

    The other news is fantastic, we're producing machine guns! The more automatic firepower we have, the better, and those are another nice item that we could sell on the international market once we meet our needs. Hopefully we can figure out how the 6.5 mm Hotchkiss machine gun works soon.

    I'm a bit confused by our points, trying to figure that out now. At a minimum, though, we should send observers to Bolivia, improve the Carabinieri somehow (probably in preparation for a large expansion), and probably request proposals for small boats or expand our naval base.
     
    Alright, I was hoping to delay the major Army expansion until after the Officer school was done, but this should also be doable alongside the existing 3-year plan - especially with the new investment point.

    IMO the first thing we should determine is what kind of overall mobilization scheme we want/need, but to just throw out some numbers:

    - Current Carabinieri - 10,000 men - IIRC we have had no indication that more in peacetime is needed
    - Current Army: 6 battalions over 3 brigades, roughly 6,000 men.
    - Current Brigade structure, filled out to the 2nd Brigade OOB: 9 battalions, roughly 9,000 men.
    - 6 brigades, each built out around one current battalion: 12 battalions/12,000 men

    So pretty much any system that meets the requirements, unless we can make a much bigger reserve overnight than I expect we can, will probably mean creating totally new units.

    Also, to do a bit of very rough demography for conscription assumptions: this website has a population pyramid for some nearby countries in 1950. Obviously this is the wrong year, country and who knows where they got the numbers but I think it's not an unreasonable proxy because Reewin is very close and the later year may compensate for Reewin's being slightly more industrialized and less colonized.

    Based on it, it looks like between 8 and 10% of the population is men between 15 and 24, so a hypothetical one-year conscription in the middle of that range, with no exceptions, would come out to 0.8-1% of the population, or maybe 40,000 men. Obviously we don't want to do that but if for example we drafted one third of them for two years, that would be a conscript force of maybe 27k with 13k entering the reserve each year. So a relatively lenient two-year conscription program plus a three-year ready reserve would cover the needed numbers. We can't actually achieve the reserve figure in less than 5 years though even if we hit the ground running now, so if we plan to rely on conscription and a reserve, the peacetime army needs to expand faster still to meet the requirement.

    Meanwhile, meeting the 30k requirement with volunteers - let's say serving 4-5 years on average - would mean maybe 15-20% of men volunteering (also, again, can't be done in two years so the real number would need to be higher). I'm not sure whether that's a viable percentage.

    Overall, I think the field army number will be a lot easier to hit within the timeframe than the reserve number.

    4WheelSword said:
    [ ] Enlarge the Army - Currently, Reewiin maintains a standing Army of 6,000 men organised into six effective battalions. There are several options for enlarging this, and we can create formations and units that we do not currently have the equipment for if we want. It's perfectly possible to specify an artillery division is to be formed and only then start looking for an artillery piece to equip it. Select one or more:
    [ ] Establish a more formal reservist force from those claiming their pension. - Write in the desired force size and structure. (12-Month Investment)
    [ ] Increase recruitment and expand existing formations - Write in the desired force size and structure. (Variable Investment, 6-12 months)
    [ ] Increase recruitment and create entirely new formations - Write in the desired force size and structure. (Variable Investment, 12-24 months)
    [ ] Increase recruitment and split up current formations as cadres for the new recruits - Write in the desired force size and structure. (Variable Investment, 6-12 months)
    [ ] Institute conscription - Write in the desired force size and structure. (6-Month Investment)
    [ ] Write in.
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    A question on these - would we need to take Enlarge the Officer Corps alongside increased recruitment to maintain the current ratio of officers to enlisted, or is that covered under the recruitment options? Also, can we get an estimate on how many simultaneous investment points it would take to (for example) just double the existing Army structure or would that take Reewin testing it out?
     
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    For the RMCF I feel that allowing the Japanese to build the naval base is actually the best option. Yes it brings us further into their sphere of influence, but we have to do something to keep them on side, and this way a majority/all of their forces will be confined to one area.

    I think the free investment point should be put into setting up a proper officer school so that we can expand the army with fewer issues. And I don't really know what I want to vote for when it comes to the Carabinieri.
     
    DegenWeeb said:
    Wouldn't Paraguay be the better option? While not guaranteed they did win the war irl and we could maybe learn something from them.
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    I had a reason ages ago for thinking Bolivia was the better option, but I can't recall exactly. We want to see the side who's got the most foreign advisors and equipment so we can see modern stuff in combat. I think Paraguay was less well equipped and mostly made do with what they could capture from the Bolivians?
    Empress_Boog said:
    For the RMCF I feel that allowing the Japanese to build the naval base is actually the best option. Yes it brings us further into their sphere of influence, but we have to do something to keep them on side, and this way a majority/all of their forces will be confined to one area.

    I think the free investment point should be put into setting up a proper officer school so that we can expand the army with fewer issues. And I don't really know what I want to vote for when it comes to the Carabinieri.
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    We just had a riot because of Japanese sailors, and paid a fair bit of money to keep the Japanese from setting up a naval base because it would have probably happened again. Japan's MO for taking over countries in this period is "establish military mission, wait for locals and military mission to get into conflict (and encourage the soldiers to make this happen quicker), send in more soldiers to 'restore order', celebrate new terrritorial gains". Inviting them in is both asking for a conflict with Japan and giving them an advantage for when it starts.
     
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    Dessard said:
    A question on these - would we need to take Enlarge the Officer Corps alongside increased recruitment to maintain the current ratio of officers to enlisted, or is that covered under the recruitment options? Also, can we get an estimate on how many simultaneous investment points it would take to (for example) just double the existing Army structure or would that take Reewin testing it out?
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    Enlarging the armed forces will maintain the current ratio of officers at something like the current level of training. The variable investment options will still only be one investment point, but depending on the size of the expansion requested they will take different amounts of time. For the sort of radical expansion the civilian government is talking about, you can probably expect to be looking at the top end of all of those options.
     
    Okay, so I'd like to suggest a few things. For the ordnance slot, I'd like to try and simplify the AA and AT procurement by narrowing the former down to specifically trialling and purchasing guns in 13.2x99 mm Hotchkiss, and for the latter, asking for incendiary/anti-tank grenades that we can do cheap domestic production of. Molotovs aren't a complicated idea, and I'd rather we have thousands of them than a few handfuls of AT guns (especially given the limited options available in '33). Hopefully we can do both with a pair of 6-month write-ins. After that, we should see if the arms industry thinks they're up to producing a SMG for export sale or licensed production of a grenade.

    The Carabinieri seem like a good option for expansion. For one, they allow Bantu to serve, and they're also my precious baby who should get more love. I'd like to spend a year and a half, I think, on a large-scale expansion combined with improving their training to match the stuff we're doing with the regular army - for the most part, I'd like to make sure they've all got modern guns, ammunition to practice shooting, and possibly something like a semi-annual shooting competition with lots of prizes to motivate them to get better.

    I'd like to immediately spend a slot on sending observers to the Chaco War. Simply put, we have no idea what a modern war looks like. IIRC, Reewiin's never actually been in one, so the closest we'd have seen is newsreels from WWI and whatever token force happened to be sent to help out the Japanese. The best way to build up an effective army instead of blindly flailing about is empirical observations of how things are developing, and that means sending people to South America. Yes, this delays our army's expansion, but we don't want to be expanding in worthless ways. We'll have another slot freed up next quarter, which we can use for an officer academy; after that, we can go all-in on a large army expansion, and hopefully being 3/4s complete before the deadline is enough to get us above the 30k number.

    As for the Carabinavy, I think we should expand our port facilities, then issue a request for proposals on small ships. It'll take some time for people to get back to us with detailed designs, so we can then spend a few months doing training followed by actually purchasing them. We want to get these purchases in early enough that the prices are low because shipyards are looking for buyers due to the great depression.
     
    C_Z said:
    We just had a riot because of Japanese sailors, and paid a fair bit of money to keep the Japanese from setting up a naval base because it would have probably happened again. Japan's MO for taking over countries in this period is "establish military mission, wait for locals and military mission to get into conflict (and encourage the soldiers to make this happen quicker), send in more soldiers to 'restore order', celebrate new terrritorial gains". Inviting them in is both asking for a conflict with Japan and giving them an advantage for when it starts.
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    That can't be true. As DegenWeeb said,
    DegenWeeb said:
    We should also take any pro Japan option, the Japanese are our friends and im sure they wouldn't backstab us/turn us into a colonial state. It's called the Co-Prosperity Sphere, not something like the Tokyo pact and as such we are totally equals with the Japanese.
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    They are our greatest allies! I can find no fault with the Japanese management style.

    /s In case that wasn't obvious.
     
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    I agree that cavalry make a lot of sense for Reewin - especially when a lot more of our population works with animals daily than has probably seen a truck. I'd like to see mounted infantry units in each brigade and division for recon, and maybe a large cavalry unit or two as well, though water supply may be a big problem for them in much of the country.

    C_Z said:
    Okay, so I'd like to suggest a few things. For the ordnance slot, I'd like to try and simplify the AA and AT procurement by narrowing the former down to specifically trialling and purchasing guns in 13.2x99 mm Hotchkiss, and for the latter, asking for incendiary/anti-tank grenades that we can do cheap domestic production of. Molotovs aren't a complicated idea, and I'd rather we have thousands of them than a few handfuls of AT guns (especially given the limited options available in '33). Hopefully we can do both with a pair of 6-month write-ins. After that, we should see if the arms industry thinks they're up to producing a SMG for export sale or licensed production of a grenade.

    The Carabinieri seem like a good option for expansion. For one, they allow Bantu to serve, and they're also my precious baby who should get more love. I'd like to spend a year and a half, I think, on a large-scale expansion combined with improving their training to match the stuff we're doing with the regular army - for the most part, I'd like to make sure they've all got modern guns, ammunition to practice shooting, and possibly something like a semi-annual shooting competition with lots of prizes to motivate them to get better.

    I'd like to immediately spend a slot on sending observers to the Chaco War. Simply put, we have no idea what a modern war looks like. IIRC, Reewiin's never actually been in one, so the closest we'd have seen is newsreels from WWI and whatever token force happened to be sent to help out the Japanese. The best way to build up an effective army instead of blindly flailing about is empirical observations of how things are developing, and that means sending people to South America. Yes, this delays our army's expansion, but we don't want to be expanding in worthless ways. We'll have another slot freed up next quarter, which we can use for an officer academy; after that, we can go all-in on a large army expansion, and hopefully being 3/4s complete before the deadline is enough to get us above the 30k number.

    As for the Carabinavy, I think we should expand our port facilities, then issue a request for proposals on small ships. It'll take some time for people to get back to us with detailed designs, so we can then spend a few months doing training followed by actually purchasing them. We want to get these purchases in early enough that the prices are low because shipyards are looking for buyers due to the great depression.
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    I agree on the ordnance options, but I don't think it's a good idea to lean too much on the Carabinieri for expansion. The issue is exactly what you're describing about improving the training and equipment - maintaining two parallel armies means double the AP cost to organize and modernize them, which we can't afford. We may be able to mitigate the cost somewhat by sharing training institutions and low-level organization between them, but that takes actions to establish too. IMO they should have a vital role in our mobilization plan, and for introducing specialist units, but not in peacetime expansion past peacetime needs. It's not like they have infantry or officer schools up either.

    What you said in the last post before the hiatus was a good point, about the country being too big for the Army to protect the borders adequately, but given both the action economy and the political winds it seems better to expand the army, spread around its bases, improve infrastructure and give back/modernize the forts (all things we want anyway, except maybe the forts), rather than establishing a second equally-dispersed army.

    Also, the government is giving us the perfect excuse to let all ethnic groups into the Army - by pushing for an expansion that demands conscription. We may not be able to do better than segregated units yet but we should at least be able to truthfully say they're needed for an adequate army.
     
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    Empress_Boog said:
    That can't be true. As DegenWeeb said,

    They are our greatest allies! I can find no fault with the Japanese management style.
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    I feel like they may be biased, given their name.
    That said, for the record, the riot was January 1932, it was a big deal.
    Dessard said:
    I agree that cavalry make a lot of sense for Reewin - especially when a lot more of our population works with animals daily than has probably seen a truck. I'd like to see mounted infantry units in each brigade and division for recon, and maybe a large cavalry unit or two as well, though water supply may be a big problem for them in much of the country.


    I agree on the ordnance options, but I don't think it's a good idea to lean too much on the Carabinieri as a combat arm. The issue is exactly what you're describing about improving the training and equipment - maintaining two parallel armies means double the AP cost to organize and modernize them, which we can't afford. We may be able to mitigate the cost somewhat by sharing training institutions and low-level organization between them, but that takes actions too. IMO they should have a vital role in our mobilization plan, but not in peacetime expansion past peacetime needs.

    What you said in the last post before the hiatus was a good point, about the country being too big for the Army to protect the borders adequately, but given both the action economy and the political winds it seems better to expand the army, spread around its bases, improve infrastructure and give it back/modernize the forts, rather than establishing a second equally-dispersed army.

    Also, the government is giving us the perfect excuse to let all ethnic groups into the Army - by pushing for an expansion that demands conscription. We may not be able to do better than segregated units yet but we should at least be able to truthfully say they're needed for an adequate army.
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    I'm against expanding cavalry. We're expecting a horse attrition rate of up to 20% per month during wartime. That's a huge resource sink.
    Why not bicycles? That was a good idea, costs way less than a horse, and improves our mobility a fair bit. Mules work for pack artillery and mortars, and are more robust. That said, mobility is not something we have been asked to improve at this point.

    I'd not like for the carabinieri to be army 2.0, but instead a recruiting pool if we need to rapidly expand the army and as a way of causing friction for an enemy offensive into Reewiin. You try and invade? There's a few guys who tell you to stop, take a few shots at you, and then run away to report that something's going on and that the Army needs to be mobilized. You've invaded? There's partisans shooting at your supply convoys and forcing you to slow down and flush them out instead of striking key lines of communication before the army's ready. Ideally, they're a cross between the Canadian Rangers, stay-behind guerillas, and a way to provide basic training to potential army recruits. In no case should the Carabinieri be expected to act on their own as a second army.
     
    If we plan to do conscription we definitely need officers to lead the conscripts and some sort of mechanism or set of camps to gather and train them.
     
    Empress_Boog said:
    They are our greatest allies! I can find no fault with the Japanese management style
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    The Japanese are our greatest friends, they are protecting us from the perfidious Albion and the Rome larpers in well, Rome from exploitation. We should adopt more Japanese ideas to modernise our nation.

    C_Z said:
    I feel like they may be biased, given their name.
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    Nah you are just imagining stuff, the Japanese are simply our only natural ally that can protect us from those vile imperialists from Europe.

    C_Z said:
    Why not bicycles? That was a good idea, costs way less than a horse, and improves our mobility a fair bit.
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    I wholeheartedly agree, the humble bicycle will be our greatest weapon and there is already a nation we are friendly with that has bicycle divisions and will use them in the future to great effect against the British.
    The Japanese are truly our greatest ally.
     
    C_Z said:
    I feel like they may be biased, given their name.
    That said, for the record, the riot was January 1932, it was a big deal.
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    I feel like removing the part where I made it clear my post was a joke, makes yours disingenuous.
    Empress_Boog said:
    They are our greatest allies! I can find no fault with the Japanese management style.

    /s In case that wasn't obvious.
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    As for the Carabinieri, I feel like we should be trying to push them into the role of what they were originally made for, a military police force, and not trying to make them a reserve force for the army. Those are two separate things.

    For the mobility debate occurring, I agree with making a bicycle force over trying to expand the cavalry corps. Seems to be a good idea to me.
     
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