Red Rationalist
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That would also work, yeah.
Because their army is at the border and the distance given by the march description is 8 days.
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Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest
- Thread starter Photomajig
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- Fantasy Historic
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- Germany
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Yeah but they are not even in Engelsburg which takes 11 days to Antreville, but besides it so they take even longer
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
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So that the reserve pools stay balanced.
Red Rationalist
Spinning in eternity
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My understanding based on the description is that Trotha's army is right at the border, rather than behind Engelsburg. This would also correspond to the map, where the centre army is to the south-west of Engelsburg, meaning they are closer to the border than Engelsburg is.
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theres a river on the border, moving south means going through Engelsburg
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8 days from your side of the river. Crossing the river will slow them down by at least 2 days, regardless of if they use the crossing the Volunteer Army used (directly south of Billermund) or head for the road south of Engelsburg and cross the river on it before turning west.
Red Rationalist
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Eh, no. The path would be a line from the white border to Antreville, requiring you to ford the border river. I imagine the path would be: current position-> Via Peregrine (fording the border river raoille) -> Antreville. You wouldn't go trough Engelsburg if your army is south-west of Engelsburg, at the border.
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In addition to what Photo just clarified (+2 days to either ford or use the Engelsburg bridge), we've also got foreshadowing of heavy rains. While that will potentially slow down road travel, it will make fording rivers a Very Bad Idea and I think we can expect the Norns to use bridges if they can possibly help it.
(It also means positioning ourselves at a ford has potentially serious downsides, but I'd rather be right on the river to start than risk getting cut off from whichever point we need to move to).
(It also means positioning ourselves at a ford has potentially serious downsides, but I'd rather be right on the river to start than risk getting cut off from whichever point we need to move to).
@Photomajig Asking again just in case you missed it, but do we know the influence cost for removing Lamartine? Is it 100 influence or some reduced number?
Red Rationalist
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That would be possible, if we station ourselves at Martelnac. Keep in mind that Norn has superior drill compared to us, and thus might rely on the western army marching faster towards Antreville than we could. Wachenheim might decide to forgo the siege of a fortified border city with an army and march ahead to the center of their campaign, Antreville.
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But if they decide to march on antrevile couldnt they just have Wachtenheim wait and move West and Center at the same time overpowering us on the field?
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Red Rationalist
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If they were solely interested in securing Martelnec, they could. But this operation would guarantee time for the 6th, to arrive in Antreville, and leave Engelsburg wide open for potential attacks. The important logistical centre is Antreville, not Martelnac. If they secure it, they can prevent our armies from supporting each others operations, as well as severely jeopardize our logistics. If they only secure Martelnac, they have a bit more dirt near the Southern border.
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- Germany
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Yes, I mean that they have both armies link up before assaulting Auntreville, preventing us from defeating them in detail which is the reason we are moving out in the first place
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So here's my view of what the enemy strategies could be: Case Red, Case Blue, and Case Green. We won't worry about Damterre or the Silver Army because those are de Montelivet's problem.
Case Red is both armies march overland to Antreville, and reach it at about the same time as the (exhausted and undestrength) VI. Pros for the enemy are concentration of force, cons are that if they take Antreville without Martelnac they'll lack a road connection (but they'll have also cut off Martelnac from reinforcements so taking it might be a fait accompli)
Case Blue is one army marches or Martelnac to attempt to rapidly secure it, and one army marches for Antreville. A shock and awe approach that takes advantage of their numbers to secure supply lines before marching for Antreville. If they have no resistance at Martelnac or Vigny, this becomes Case Red with the West marching up the Via Peregrina to pincer Antreville, which is why I really don't want to sit still right now.
Case Green is basically Case Blue but the West gets into trouble in Martelnac and the Center marches south to reinforce them or garrison Daurstein against a counterattack. I don't see them planning for this one, but if we stop them at Martelnac it's one of their two options, the other being the Center marching on the underdefended Antreville.
If we're at Vigny, we're in position to counter either Case Red or Case Blue because we can reach Martelnac at the same time as von Wachenheim, or move northwest to intercept them in the plains again.
If we're at Martelnac we can certainly beat Case Blue much more easily, but we give them free reign to move across the plain and force a 2v2 at Antreville against two armies that have been running around in the rain instead of fortifying.
If we're at Antreville we've basically handed them Martelnac for free, and I'd rather make them bleed for it or leave it alone.
If we're on the border, see Antreville but we're 1v1ing on the plain instead of 2v2ing at Antreville.
Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
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Errant thought. Rather than stare at Trotha, could we start a staring contest with Wachenheim on the right bank of the Vaud instead, rather than at Martelnac?
Staring at Trotha threatens Wachenheim's rear but also leaves him (Wachenheim) free to maneuver towards us in a possible pincer. Invading Wachenheim's personal space still leaves Trotha a week away, possibly allowing us to deal with Wachenheim at Daurstein before Trotha can act (if he doesn't just bottle himself up in the city).
Staring at Trotha threatens Wachenheim's rear but also leaves him (Wachenheim) free to maneuver towards us in a possible pincer. Invading Wachenheim's personal space still leaves Trotha a week away, possibly allowing us to deal with Wachenheim at Daurstein before Trotha can act (if he doesn't just bottle himself up in the city).
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While her incompetence is not so blatant as the general opinion seems to think (she can just as well say that you're the incompetent who left her rear wide open to attack by enemy cavalry), but I think a discount to 75 Influence would be fair.
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I still think we should work on redeeming her, as it were. It'd be nice, and it saves the cost.
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Can we even prevent them from taking Martelnac? We need to move towards it first after all and Army West is way closer.
And whats stopping them from just having us run between Mauvais and Martelnac trying to intercept two armies and striking where we arent?
And whats stopping them from just having us run between Mauvais and Martelnac trying to intercept two armies and striking where we arent?
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I'm assuming from the fact that we have options here at all that we'll be in whatever position we choose before the Norns are ready to march. If they were starting right now at the same time we make a decision, the strategic situation would be completely different, and we'd basically be picking between meeting them on the plain or fortifying Antreville.
Red Rationalist
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Sorry, I misread your post. I have decent confidence in intercepting Wachenheim's attempt to move towards Antreville, if we deploy at the crossing. We would be between Wachenheim and Antreville, allowing us to catch up reasonably well. Having both armies link at Antreville also isn't that desireable, considering they would potentially battle 2 defending armies at the city. This is a tough battle to win. No, I think Wachenheim will try to secure Martelnac first if we position near the crossing, and then attempt to move on Antreville. Not only would that give them a base of operations, gives an opportunity to beat the 5th, it also opens a path that only takes 5 days instead of 9. Even granting a couple of days for moving towards Martelnac and the siege, it would still be about as fast as moving straight towards Antreville, potentially allowing them to arrive before the 6th actually gets there.
With this in mind, I think deploying at the crossing is most desirable for countering the enemy war plan. From there, it's a 1 day march to Martelnac, allowing us to reinforce them if they are actually sieged.
[X] Plan Flexibility
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I dont doubt we can intercept Wachenheim, its just that trying to intercept Wachenheim means that they can just link up both of their armies, defeat us on the plains and walk towards auntreville unopposed.
Wachenheim is obviously not going to march towards martelnac directly anyway but rather force us to move to the plains and go in while we are out of position
If Battling 2 defending armies(even if one is the 6th) is undesirable, wouldnt battling two defending armies where one has two extra regiments even worse for them?
Im not confident that they are actually faster than us on the march(which would be a giant argument for auntreville), but as the numerically superior attacker they have significanty more initiative
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Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
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Wargame this with me for a bit. What is likely to happen if we effectively march on Wachenheim? Either to position ourselves on his flank or outright take the initiative and attack Daurstein first rather than wait for the Norns to cross the border.
Stopping either at the X or fully committing.
Stopping either at the X or fully committing.
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