Mackie wasn't a Maus after all: Nukashuba strikes back

CFE in this case frees up more Crits, which is definitely worth it in a Quad, given how constrained they are, it allows a lot more leeway to play with.

Beyond that, as said the ubiquity of everyone being able to make them, combined with how rugged they are is useful even in a biped.

TheOmnimercurial said:

CFE in this case frees up more Crits, which is definitely worth it in a Quad, given how constrained they are, it allows a lot more leeway to play with.

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More crits isn't definitely worth it. It's potentially worth it if you actually need them. But nobody is proposing a loadout where crits are a problem, even on a quad.

Aineko said:

More crits isn't definitely worth it. It's potentially worth it if you actually need them. But nobody is proposing a loadout where crits are a problem, even on a quad.

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Depends what you want to do.

TheOmnimercurial said:

Depends what you want to do.

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Which is why I said nobody is proposing, not nobody possibly could propose.

With the Kintaro 275FE we can manage a 55ton Tripod with 5/8/5(7)

It has 1 ER Large Laser (could swap for basic LL) 4x Medium Lasers and a Recon Camera

Only Ten Tons of Armour, but if you think we need more, then could drop a Medium Laser? Go for a Wolfhound Triple ML instead?

5 Jumpjets, but Partial Wing bumps it up to 7 Jump, if we can get Nimble Jumper we could raise it to 8 Jump

We can still try to Reverse Engineer IS-DHS for it


Gives us Arms for Raiding/Looting and Melee
Partial Wing for more Jump + Free Heatsinking
Highly mobile

Thoughts?

TheOmnimercurial said:

Thoughts?

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I will usually support tripods, because they're just cool. I do prefer them heavier to get the most out of the double-pilot setup. But that's not the issues I take with the design.

We don't have partial wing, or have the first step towards such a thing, we would need to favortrade for samples of ERLL to be shipped to us for reverse-engineering before sending them back and plausibly seeing production.
I don't know if the Kintaro's engine comes with IS Heat sinks, which I think we're not actually set up to manufacture ourselves (We build with either tank grade SHS or Fleet grade Clan DHS), and that's also not a technology that our allies on Nudzeret would be able to build, either.


If everything worked out exactly, then it would be a pretty savage design. With nimble jumper, getting +5 on TMM dodging around blasting things with medium laser batteries.

But it is a stack of untested technologies that we don't have access to, and I'm afraid of it becoming another RP pit for quirks and reverse-engineering before ever seeing production. It's like a prototype we'd cook up for our own experimentation of other technologies, not for actual production.

The Guerilla Prototype! Sort-of, maybe. JJs alone eat a lot of the tonnage (at 3 tons for 6 Jump Jets) so that leaves little to weaponries really... a Large Laser and two Medium Lasers.

[ ] [Engineering] Ruffian RFN-02 (60-ton Bipedal Mech)
-[ ] Basic Model: Thug / Flashman.
-[ ] Description: Initially based on the White Ghosts' Thug 80-ton Battlemech [Double Light PPCs + Twin SRM-6s with 1 Ton of Ammo + CASE each with JJs and Heat Sinks), it slowly became similar to the White Ghosts' 75-ton Flashman after deliberating about an all energy-based weaponry mech to avoid reliance on ammunition and thus give more combat endurance in battle (also because Light PPCs and CASE may not be something other Polities have access to). So it has the 'shape'/appearance of a smaller(?) Thug but a full energy-based weapon loadout of a Flashman. (Two Large Lasers, Six Medium Lasers, 18 Heat Sinks, 12.5 Tons of Armor, 240 'Black Box' Engine from a White Ghosts' Sentinel.)
-[ ] Specification Tolerance: Moderate. Since we will have no control on what happens to these models once they're on the Field or Polities who might not be able to manufacture the needed weapons for said Mech (Large Lasers for instance), then tolerance to specification is set at moderate to allow some changes appropriately based on given circumstances by then. Hell, if they can put Light PPCs on these things somehow then even better! (Cost not withstanding, a Light PPC is 150k C-Bills compared to a Large Laser's 100k C-Bills tag.)
-[ ] Build Prototype on Nukashuba First?: Yes. (4 RP)
-[ ] Specify Parts to be manufactured on Nukashuba and shipped, if any: Initially the 240-rating 'Black Box' (Standard) Engines for the BattleMech until the other polity has their factories producing said engine.

[ ] [Travel] Stay on Nukashuba.
So throwing in my vote on a Heavy Mech design, the Ruffian.

Maybe someone can throw in the other 55-ton Mech on a 275 Engine Rating?

The one design with Triplet Light PPCs and Quad Medium Lasers... though it's best to stick with introtech really, but it is something!

EDIT: Switched votes.

Really like that 60ton Ruffian @DiscordOxymoron 😊

More than Introtech is doable if we share the Tech, but that then hands a very good tech out.

Kind of why the LL and ERLL are both great, as you can use an LL if ERLL does not pan out, or upgrade after, best bit is the ERLL is a good upgrade, but not as good as our PPC tech.

Not going to lie I am toying with a 60ton idea that uses Torso Cockpit and two LPPC's or two LL/ERLL or four ML on a Head Turret...

Sacredefiler said:

I will usually support tripods, because they're just cool. I do prefer them heavier to get the most out of the double-pilot setup. But that's not the issues I take with the design.

We don't have partial wing, or have the first step towards such a thing, we would need to favortrade for samples of ERLL to be shipped to us for reverse-engineering before sending them back and plausibly seeing production.
I don't know if the Kintaro's engine comes with IS Heat sinks, which I think we're not actually set up to manufacture ourselves (We build with either tank grade SHS or Fleet grade Clan DHS), and that's also not a technology that our allies on Nudzeret would be able to build, either.


If everything worked out exactly, then it would be a pretty savage design. With nimble jumper, getting +5 on TMM dodging around blasting things with medium laser batteries.

But it is a stack of untested technologies that we don't have access to, and I'm afraid of it becoming another RP pit for quirks and reverse-engineering before ever seeing production. It's like a prototype we'd cook up for our own experimentation of other technologies, not for actual production.

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I don't disagree entirely, it very much is a best rolls result in awesome proposal.

That said, the two XLFE with IS-DHS are Accessible to us, so we could focus on the DHS and delay the XLFE for now, we do have Naval DHS and Light FE as starting points to bridge the Tech Gap however, which should ease things.

ERLL may be a no go, but worth a try, if it fails we can just add in a standard LL.

Partial Wing though I think we can do.

@tomwritestuff made clear that we cannot attempt Weapons without a basis, but structural and components we can attempt from scratch.

A Partial Wing could start as just making the Mech Aerodynamic in shape to benefit from Contours that aid in control and lift while reducing drag, adding lifting surfaces as part of that does not seem too absurd, especially given we have ASF test pilots as part of our first mech test pilots, one of which loved Nuclear Race Cars.... Which use Spoilers, which are akin to opposite Wings, applying downforce instead of lift.

So we could approach it that way, with the surface area then being applied to heat management using ASF and Heatsink Tech and Radiator Tech.

This kind of thought process on how to use structural composition of a Mech even allows for us to pursue a Torso Cockpit, as it is all about rearranging structure and utilising function and emphasising pilot safety.

Edit:

On another note we have a Combat Computer Quirk on one of our Prototypes we could try to integrate on any proposed mech?

Combat Computer quirk is nice for sure, but it needs to use said Prototype as basis I believe, not a remove and install quirk thing.

Hell, we'll need to roll for what quirks, both good and bad, once the vote passes so yeah.

Torso Mount is... Well, I'm not sure? It will help immensely for sure I believe as that avoids being headcapped but I'm also not well-versed about how that works. (Barring hearsays.)

..speaking of Headcaps, any chance we can Hardened the Head Armor to avoid said scenario via Patchworking yet? That adds another sense of survivability in a way. @_@;

Either that or old Armored Cowl quirk, but I'm not sure how to code that in.

As per BMM torso cockpits have the additional penalty of -1 to piloting skill, due to cramped space, and a lack of ejection system.
It's more durable by way of avoiding headshots, but can still lead to getting killed via repeated falldown, mechwarrior injury, and blackout.

For amusement, imagine sticking a Tripod's dual cockpit into a torso-mounted cockpit. This is not an endorsement of the concept.

Building some sort of 'standard hardened head' with patchwork armor might be worth considering for the future. Then again, it's effectively the Cowl quirk. And there's already a system to try and build for that.


Combat computer? On the Heavy Scorpion Prototype? Sounds like an excuse to build the Heavy Scorpion SCP-3N, now with.....Ok, I'm not exactly sure what could be done to improve it. PPC capacitor? Turret for the main gun? More medium lasers? Stealth Armor instead of CLPS? Refit thoughts for the future, I guess.

Realised we can squeeze an XL360 in a 40ton Mech and went a bit crazy 🤣

Triple Threat (TRP-T1)
Tripod
XL360
10x IS-DHS
7tons Armour
3x Medium Laser (LT)
3x Medium Laser (RT)
3x Jumpjets
9/15/3 (90m Jump)
Recon Camera


Might as well just name it the Speed Demon! 😆

Battlefist Quirk
Reinforced Legs Quirk

Modular Quirk?
Can swap out 3x Medium Lasers with 1x LPPC?

Was thinking it could be a C or U shape that locks onto the area between Torso and Arm similar to Blood Asp shoulder Gun, could be a Directional Torso Mount allowing LPPC's to aim up above and use whole Tripod Torso like a Giant Turret?

Not many votes in yet. Let me know if I should push the deadline.

I doubt I'll cast a vote in the next 20 hours.

Probably extend by another day then? Not sure about the time zone of others but I'll assume it's still Friday for some. (It's currently Saturday by the time I'm writing/typing this.)

..I might want to Quad-ify the Ruffian though if the vote does extend. Later. Hopefully. @_@;

I kind of want to slap Chameleon stealth, Null sig, and Beagle active scanners on a mech with ER PPCs, the ultra tech Flex Mech. I can see and shoot the shit outta you but good luck hitting me back.

dgr11897 said:

I kind of want to slap Chameleon stealth, Null sig, and Beagle active scanners on a mech with ER PPCs, the ultra tech Flex Mech. I can see and shoot the shit outta you but good luck hitting me back.

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In the prior thread we talked about the double-stealth mechs a few times but never wound up willing to dive into the expense of including null sig I think.

If we were building a Nukashuban owned-and-operated mech for intervention operations on Nudezret, it might be worth reconsidering...

We might get to that in eventuality, but at the moment we're focusing on a BattleMech that can be spread to help the other polities against the White Ghosts. @_@;

I punted the vote deadline back. It can go further back if need be.

So we guys have an extension of a day... if there's still no decisions by then, I'll throw in my vote to the Guerilla too I guess?

..I made a 40-ton Quad that has Twin LRM-5s (with 1 ton ammo each) and a Medium Laser on the Head. With maximum jump jets but at 8.5 Armor (out of 10). The 'AI' behavior I'm hoping that's sticked into this Mech is being far away and harrassing with the Double LRM-5s with others. Something-something about Quads being great Long Range Fire Support Platform-something. Was thinking if the ones using it doesn't fancy being away then they could switch the LRM-5s to SRM-4s. Or have one of each. @_@;


The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to go for the 240-Engine with Max Armor and Max JJ. Weapons.. are a bit iffy but what can we do? >_>;

EDIT: ..though the Max JJ is eating a lot of tonnage.. and I do want to try out using Quad Turrets. T_T;

Problem with any kind of range missiles is resupply.

We could maybe try for a better artillery mech? Mech Mortar?

I think the best option currently are LL and ML equipped Mechs.

TheOmnimercurial said:

Problem with any kind of range missiles is resupply.

We could maybe try for a better artillery mech? Mech Mortar?

I think the best option currently are LL and ML equipped Mechs.

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Resupply is an issue, but I'd expect common weapons like LRMs to be plentiful even though it's not a major mech weapon in free Nudezret.

My problem with it is that it is achieving literally Raven-level firepower.

..thinking about it, why not attempt to use the Scorpion Chassis as basis? Well, more like go further on Quads? PPC as per usual and 3 Medium Laser combo? And remove one more ton of armor for a Flamer if need be for anti-infantry duty (and place it on the right turret where the PPC is)?

Since Quads, (or rather the Scorpion) has a good reputation in Palporis, why not capitalize on it? Hmm... You know what, yeah, I'll do that. @_@;

[X] [Engineering] Mastiff (55-ton Quad Mech)
-[X] Basic Model: Scorpion Chassis-inspired / Original.
-[X] Description: With the Scorpion and its relative variant being popular in Palporis, it was decided that this new export BattleMech will try to capitalize on making an original QuadMech for the whole Palporis sector. Codenamed the 'Mastiff', it is a 55-ton Quad Mech with a PPC and triple Medium Lasers nestled on Turrets, allowing a 360-degree firing coverage for this mech. This mech is powered by a 275-rated 'Black Box' Engine fitted with 12 tons of armor, cooled by 12 regular (single) heat sinks and is fitted by five Jump Jets allowing it to 'jump' over normally hard terrain by 150 meters.
-[X] Specification Tolerance: Moderate. In case other polities find arming these QuadMechs with PPCs harsh budget-wise, they may proceed to switch it out for a Large Laser instead and doing what they please with the free two tons for the likes of armor or adding more heat sinks. Or maybe they find Jump Jets not worth it in their place, in which case more weapons and heat sinks for them!
-[X] Build Prototype on Nukashuba First?: Yes.
-[X] Specify Parts to be manufactured on Nukashuba and shipped, if any: The 275-rated 'Black Box' Engine for the QuadMech until the other polity has their factories producing said engine.

EDIT: If Approval Voting is a Thing somehow!:

[X] [Engineering] Ruffian RFN-02 (60-ton Bipedal Mech)
-[X] Basic Model: Thug / Flashman.
-[X] Description: Initially based on the White Ghosts' Thug 80-ton Battlemech [Double Light PPCs + Twin SRM-6s with 1 Ton of Ammo + CASE each with JJs and Heat Sinks), it slowly became similar to the White Ghosts' 75-ton Flashman after deliberating about an all energy-based weaponry mech to avoid reliance on ammunition and thus give more combat endurance in battle (also because Light PPCs and CASE may not be something other Polities have access to). So it has the 'shape'/appearance of a smaller(?) Thug but a full energy-based weapon loadout of a Flashman. (Two Large Lasers, Six Medium Lasers, 18 Heat Sinks, 12.5 Tons of Armor, 240 'Black Box' Engine from a White Ghosts' Sentinel.)
-[X] Specification Tolerance: Moderate. Since we will have no control on what happens to these models once they're on the Field or Polities who might not be able to manufacture the needed weapons for said Mech (Large Lasers for instance), then tolerance to specification is set at moderate to allow some changes appropriately based on given circumstances by then. Hell, if they can put Light PPCs on these things somehow then even better! (Cost not withstanding, a Light PPC is 150k C-Bills compared to a Large Laser's 100k C-Bills tag.)
-[X] Build Prototype on Nukashuba First?: Yes. (4 RP)
-[X] Specify Parts to be manufactured on Nukashuba and shipped, if any: Initially the 240-rating 'Black Box' (Standard) Engines for the BattleMech until the other polity has their factories producing said engine.

[X] [Travel] Stay on Nukashuba.

..something tells me we might never get to a conclusion at this rate, and we'll be in the impasse of indecisiveness soon.

Something seems off with your turrets not costing tonnage there.

Though it is a point that sending something modeled on our respected Scorpion design might go over well.

...It might also make ComStar put 2 and 2 together to get sqrt(17) with respect to us and Stone's Sword if they haven't already.

Aineko said:

Something seems off with your turrets not costing tonnage there.

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They're not showing up, yeah, but they're eating 1 tonnage for the PPC to be in said turret and all the MLs with 0.5 tonnage on their own turret.

EDIT: Proof!

We already have an export 55 ton 5/8/5 machine. (Goldfish). While it's got poor reputation, it's still fine.

Alright, the export model goldfish might be a bit undergunned. Ok, really undergunned for these days. Especially looking back at it. And we don't export the advanced models with respectable firepower. So yes, there is a niche worth exploring for our allies.

I do still think the 40 ton 6/9/6 breakpoint is better for the system, but I don't think our designs have yet to get more than 1 vote each, so if no one else throws another vote in to break it, I'll support a Medium Scorpion. Spread the love of quads in-system. We're the odd multi-legged designer faction.