Son of Death (30k Mortarion Quest)
- Thread starter Maugan Ra
- Start date
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
-[X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
Approval voting, I guess? One can argue about whether or not scientists trying to help people and making it a priority is baked into liberation or not. It does seem from the vague description we have from that link that the Imperium just replaced who was in charge and nothing else? Even if the drugging stuff wasn't canon, the "meek masses will accept whoever is in charge" seems to be.
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
-[X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
Approval voting, I guess? One can argue about whether or not scientists trying to help people and making it a priority is baked into liberation or not. It does seem from the vague description we have from that link that the Imperium just replaced who was in charge and nothing else? Even if the drugging stuff wasn't canon, the "meek masses will accept whoever is in charge" seems to be.
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
somewhatLazy
Serial Procrastinator
- Location
- lurking
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
Vulkanus
A DOTHRAKI HORDE, NED
- Location
- IN AN OPEN FIEEELD
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
We're Mortarion. Biological warfare is our jam. AIn't no way we can't figure this tomfoolery out
And although E is less moustache twirling nazi and more Classical Era Imperialist - it's bets to get a cure for this or at least destroy the poison before the wider Imperium can get its mitts on it.
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
We're Mortarion. Biological warfare is our jam. AIn't no way we can't figure this tomfoolery out
And although E is less moustache twirling nazi and more Classical Era Imperialist - it's bets to get a cure for this or at least destroy the poison before the wider Imperium can get its mitts on it.
- Location
- Detroit, Michigan
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
You're correct and I agree with you practically as an outsider but for Mortarion as a character "I am maybe, sometimes, if you do everything I demand willing to not murder everything that reminds me of my trauma" seems like a small step in the right direction. Depending on how hypocritical the cult is diplomacy might even have been an option in this case for a different Primarch. Primarchs represent genetically engineered perfect rulers after all.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
I didn't make the connection with canon but, regardless, my concern was always less 'can we win' and more 'can we win without ruining our own prize for victory'. I want their bureaucracy intact, its people alive and untraumatized, and our moral highground at least theoretically extant.
In canon we were evidently mass deploying phosphex and biological weaponry, as I imagined as my own personal worst case scenario, along with bulk orbital bombardment of ground forces. Not what I would call countering the enemy through conventional combat. Even with that the canon Death Guard evidently bled itself white with massive Astartes casualties. We explicitly want our Dusk Raiders to survive and to foster that mentality.
Canon Mortarion killed a world and a significant number of his children for crumbs. There would have scarcely been anything left to plant a flag in. I'd very much like to lose no one and then walk away eating the entire cake.
We also can't assume that the enemy we face will be precisely the one seen in canon: Maugan Ra is using the existing script as a guideline but he seems more prone to making the detail work conform to what somebody would have done or built in a given situation if they were intelligent, reasonable beings. I'm never going to assume a lack of competence.
We already know that no one fired the first shot, even if tensions were high.
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Ok so the order does not scream Chaos to me. First there is the number of systems which no chaos his has. Than there is the population of 50 billion. That is a huge population and one that is organized. Also they do not seem to want to invade anyone and just want to be left alone.
The drugs made me wary but there could be several reasons for them. The main reason is psykers, I know everyone wants space magic but psykers killed a lot of people in the dark age of mankind.
The biggest problem we have limited knowledge. Is the population happy, what is the poverty level, education level, pollution level, and so forth. What is the order like and how do they rule. Why are they giving suicide pills and why do the people take them.
The drugs made me wary but there could be several reasons for them. The main reason is psykers, I know everyone wants space magic but psykers killed a lot of people in the dark age of mankind.
The biggest problem we have limited knowledge. Is the population happy, what is the poverty level, education level, pollution level, and so forth. What is the order like and how do they rule. Why are they giving suicide pills and why do the people take them.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The canon version of them has slave soldiers, lol.
That is cannon and these is a AU, maybe they are not evil or maybe they can change. I would like to play Mortarion as someone who tries diplomacy first. Instead of just subjugating every human civilization we come across.
HalfTangible
Only half sane (it's less cringe)
- Location
- Valkyrie, Primus
A population kept in line through narcotics doesn't scream of good rulers or a truly happy people.
- Location
- Your pantry
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We really don't know that. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if the narcotics they use to make the people docile aren't also affecting their dopamine. Besides, this is a population that has been under this kind of system for probably at minimum hundreds of years. Their culture and ideas will have very much diverged from what we on SV consider "good" or "happiness". Then again I could be completely wrong about my prediction. We really just don't have enough information on the ground to reliably speculate the conditions of this Dystopia.
That just runs into the question of if a society is moral or ethical if the populace are unable to object due to being kept High AF 24/7.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
At the point where you're using this mental discombobulation to control every aspect of their lives and even decide when and how they die... like, it's not actually an ethical dilemma.
HalfTangible
Only half sane (it's less cringe)
- Location
- Valkyrie, Primus
It's a dystopia built on outright lies and abuse in the form of drugs.
If we swapped narcotics for hourly beatings we would not be having this conversation
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
The more telling thing is that people are kept running via narcotics to the breaking point, burning themselves out and soldiering on until they are mental and physical husks of what they could have been. And then, when they are slightly more of a burden to the system than their labor is worth, they are issued a simple little euthanasia pill in the mail.
That speaks to me of a eusocial society like ants where no individual has intrinsic value. I could well believe that there are no overlords here and even the bureaucrats issuing the orders are similarly dehumanized and ultimately discarded. The system might not be evil in the sense that no person or group of people is perpetrating this evil... but that doesn't mean that it isn't broken either. It should be taken and reformed.
And reform should be very manageable indeed. The bureaucracy may be this unfeeling, inhuman thing but it will methodically follow directives from above and our desires are fairly simple and achievable. The proper instrumentality of human lives, even if its a work in progress, with people allowed and encouraged to improve their lot in life and no grand boot stomping them back down into the mud. If pharmaceuticals continue to be used on the level of Soma from Brave New World (not exactly an ideal but I need to put an upper threshold somewhere) I won't be fretting too much but what they are doing is not tenable. It just needs to be told to do this.
Arguably this place isn't much worse than your average Hive World... on the one hand you are drugged to the gills, on the other you are presumably kept safe and fed more consistently... but we're going to go ham on the average Hive World too. More than one planetary governor is going to get a charter nailed to their forehead with a railroad spike.
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- Location
- Lost amidst hungry sheep
- Pronouns
- They/Them
But what if we did it
-- [><] Decisively.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'll switch fully because the leading vote isn't in danger of losing out to something materially different. Maybe it's not in danger of losing out at all, but it's a point either way.
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
- Location
- Your pantry
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We would not be having this conversation because the situation would be different, yes. Physical abuse is quite different to drug abuse. I just think it's a bit arrogant to believe that drugs is the only means they use to control the population. Propaganda, social pressure, etc. are things that will also likely contribute. It is a dystopia, but people are very easy to condition, especially when you have the means, time and will to see it through.
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
- Location
- Dreiländereck
[X] War
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.
-[X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Scientists should make it a priority to immediately begin research in whether there's any way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. There must be a solution, just as with your home's soil, and you can wield both sword and plow at once.