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Son of Death (30k Mortarion Quest)

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01paradox01 said:
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
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Solving this situation with minimal headaches outside those caused by collateral and potential reconstruction and repopulation efforts needed in the aftermath.

Hey, even regimes such as the Imperium have their silver linings, if grim and morally bankrupt ones.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.

We're gonna have to tackle this by completely rooting out the problem as a whole.

It's not going to be pretty.
 
[X] Peace
- [X] They are capable of throwing every single of those 50 billions into the grinder of war. Unsustainable attack vector if they are capable of quick war footing. But through peace we can destroy them. And quickly. We made them expand, we made them splatter their attention so wide, they would miss the gun if it was under their nose. And we can have time to prepare conditions for 50 billions to live as a free man.
 
Okay, something that's annoying me is... they didn't expand? Nor do they seem to have any interest in doing so. How exactly are we going to make them expand beyond their limits when they're perfectly cozy in this valley?
 
I just don't see how liberation is functionally any better than conquest in this circumstance, and Liberation seems substantially more likely to get bogged down in things dealing with drugged up civilians compared to ripping out every single bureaucrat capable of giving those orders to civilians in the first place.

The baseline for the civilians is chemically induced docility, their being hurled headlong to stop our advance in a quagmire of blood is contingent on them constantly being given orders to do so. The quickest way to save lives is to destroy the enemy's command and control apparatus rather than fixating on the population centers in their own right. Likewise an ultimatum only gives them more room to set up conditions where their civilians throw themselves into us under orders.

[X] War
- [X] Of Conquest. Galaspar has refused all possibility of peaceful unification, and so they will be brought into the fold by force.
 
The Laurent said:
Okay, something that's annoying me is... they didn't expand? Nor do they seem to have any interest in doing so. How exactly are we going to make them expand beyond their limits when they're perfectly cozy in this valley?
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More to the point, assuming they're not idiots they'll recognise the implications and spend the time we give them building up their military.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Conquest. Galaspar has refused all possibility of peaceful unification, and so they will be brought into the fold by force.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Conquest. Galaspar has refused all possibility of peaceful unification, and so they will be brought into the fold by force.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.

I strongly suspect that, in the unlikely event the leadership is not controlled by Goat Cultists, that a PERFECT down-to-the-last-child drug-addled regime is going to make them stupidly susceptible to that sort of corruption. As preferable as peace and slow correction by social engineering would be, I don't think it's possible for us to get it without getting poisoned by something worse.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.

The speech and Horus were good scenes. "Until it is done." makes for a good legion chant and Horus is really good at one on one social stuff. It is easy to see why he was primus inter pares.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.

We will not merely be fighting to take the land. We are fighting for the people's souls and minds. As such having a way to properly undo the damage that has been inflicted ready to go whenever we gain ground is going to be paramount. Otherwise it's much like the Emperor, in that we will take the ground and then leave it's care to someone else. That is not the way of a farmer.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Destruction. The Order offends you on a personal, moral level, and so it must be destroyed, torn out by the root so that no trace of it remains.
 
[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
 
Hah. The bureaucracy will be useful if taken mostly intact: It is a blade wielded by a wicked hand but the blade itself seems to be sharp and of good temper. It will prove extremely useful should we bring it into our hands instead: An engine of coordination and instrumentality forced back to some semblance of sanity.

If there are drugs to be used they will be used only by the willing and not to the point it would ruin a man. I would not blink at chemical augmentation without some usurious cost. But short lived tools, or ones broken by their use, are wasted ones and I can not countenance waste.

We asked for monsters, one stands before us. Complete the equation.

[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.
 
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It sadden me to see so many people choose war with a human populace than peace and slow change over time. Like I would understand if they followed chaos but there is no sings of chaos here.
 
What does them being human matter? I mean, in universe it does.

But out of universe, I'd rather be at peace with some random Xeno constitutional monarchy than with some random human brutal dictatorship.
 
Awkward Mortarion accidentally making a good speech and getting charmed by Horus is great.

Nurgle said:
It sadden me to see so many people choose war with a human populace than peace and slow change over time. Like I would understand if they followed chaos but there is no sings of chaos here.
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Man this Nurgle guy seems reasonable.... wait a minute...

[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a replacement. Just as with the soil of your home, there must be a solution even if it is not perfect.

There's a capacity for random space communities to confound the Mechanicum with their specialties, but I think it's worth a try. It could get very brutal very quickly if they start feeding their entire populace soldier pills or the death pills out of spite, but in the end maps pretty easily to Barbarus. Leaders enforcing their doctrine with poison = rip and tear.
 
Nurgle said:
It sadden me to see so many people choose war with a human populace than peace and slow change over time. Like I would understand if they followed chaos but there is no sings of chaos here.
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If that was going to be an issue for us we would have remained a farmer. We agreed to this with open eyes and this is the heart of what the Crusade is.

Peace, as with the other options, says much about what we are here for and its not particularly pretty. Let me make a particularly cynical interpretation of what peace means: We are willing to tolerate the intolerable because its convenient, because the deaths and atrocity occur where we don't have to see them over a longer period of time rather than at our hand, in the hopes that maybe reform could occur if anybody can be assed to apply enough pressure for enough centuries when there is little external incentive to. This polity would do just fine at producing ships and lasguns...

War is ugly but peace is also ugly.
KaMinSod said:
Awkward Mortarion accidentally making a good speech and getting charmed by Horus is great.
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Further proof that he isn't actually shit at public relations. He just is incapable of seeing it due to his issues.
KaMinSod said:
There's a capacity for random space communities to confound the Mechanicum with their specialties, but I think it's worth a try. It could get very brutal very quickly if they start feeding their entire populace soldier pills or the death pills out of spite, but in the end maps pretty easily to Barbarus. Leaders enforcing their doctrine with poison = rip and tear.
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I have to imagine these guys have crafted some really good drugs over the millennia. Shit that makes what 40k had look like tylenol.

On the one hand, its kind of scary. On the other hand... it could probably do some good if, you know, not being used by totalitarian asshats who have no concern for human life. Tools for actual medical work, dealing with planets with acid for air, and all that. I want to coopt the hell out of both their pharmaceutical industry and their bureaucratic engine after beating some of the evil out.
 
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[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a rep
 
01paradox01 said:
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
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"Dunno, Sarge. Freeing slaves, maybe?"
"Absol—well, okay."
"Defending yourself against a totalitarian aggressor?"
"All right, I'll grant you that, but—"
"Saving civilization from a horde of—"
"It doesn't do any good in the long run is what I'm saying, Nobby, if you'd listen for five seconds together," said Fred Colon sharply.
"Yeah, but in the long run, what does, Sarge?"
Thud! - Terry Pratchett
 
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[X] War
- [X] Of Liberation. You object to how the Order treats its subjects, and you have the might and self-proclaimed right to intervene on their behalf.
- [X] Open with an ultimatum: if they end their system and work with the Imperium to reverse the damage it has caused, then they may enter its ranks peacefully. If they refuse, you will force them to do so.
- [X] Have scientists immediately, before the ultimatum is even given, researching what can be done to help the people, whether there's a way to slowly wean them from the drugs or find a rep
 
CanYouMeme said:
I strongly suspect that, in the unlikely event the leadership is not controlled by Goat Cultists, that a PERFECT down-to-the-last-child drug-addled regime is going to make them stupidly susceptible to that sort of corruption. As preferable as peace and slow correction by social engineering would be, I don't think it's possible for us to get it without getting poisoned by something worse.
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So we're going to save this sociey from the threat of possible Chaos corruption by integrating into the 30K Imperium of Man.

The 30K Imperium of Man that imploded and exploded at the same time due to half the military, half the military industrial complex, and the Heir To The Throne all getting corrupted by Chaos.

I think this plan may need a few more drafts, few edits and revisions, little more time in the oven to cook.
 
[x] War
- [x] Of Destruction. The Order offends you on a personal, moral level, and so it must be destroyed, torn out by the root so that no trace of it remains.
 
Wade Garrett said:
So we're going to save this sociey from the threat of possible Chaos corruption by integrating into the 30K Imperium of Man.

The 30K Imperium of Man that imploded and exploded at the same time due to half the military, half the military industrial complex, and the Heir To The Throne all getting corrupted by Chaos.

I think this plan may need a few more drafts, few edits and revisions, little more time in the oven to cook.
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A great deal of the Imperium of Man did not get corrupted by Chaos. That's the entire fucking reason it's the Horus Heresy, not the Horus Conquest.

A little more time to cook? What do you think the purpose of this quest is? (outside of entertainment and whatever the QM wants out of it)

So yes, I am inclined to cast the vote that helps prevent our plucky self-insert here from falling into nihilism and Rot as he did in canon, and preventing as much Chaos shit as possible in the process. Part of that is not letting ludicrously vulnerable societies continue their bullshit.
 
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