You're the Queen - Now What? [CK2ish Character-Focused Quest]

A_Somebody said:

4) ???

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I seem to have not written the particulars down in my notes anywhere. So honestly, I have no earthly clue. Probably some indirect claims from the sixth generation, but quite a few if you trace them all back, going by the patterns I was establishing.

@Kylia Quilor, is there a moratorium on voting this time?

So, trial first. Both the Vaelan Mokkar and the Cesla Corvosti don't seem like good candidates to me. The former just doesn't seem like someone who gets along well with people, but in Cesla's case, making the lord of someone with the "ruthless" trait pretty much guarantees that the peasants will suffer under her rule. Not the kind of person who would put Vanessa's reign in a good light.

Sir Frederick may be a good candidate without any major drawbacks, even if his claims are somewhat dubious. However, I like Verenna Relund much better, for several reasons. First, Count Vallefor is our excellent espionage advisor, and helping his family would certainly earn him much more goodwill than we would get from Lady Balmain for helping a random person in her faction. And I think everyone understands how important a good relationship with the Spymaster is. Second, we have already supported the opposite party, and we must try to maintain a balance, at least for now, while Vanessa's position is rather precarious. Third, but in my opinion most important, her heart is in the right place and she will be a person who cares about the well-being of her subjects. This fits well with Vanessa's promise to protect the innocent when she ascended the throne. Moreover, having become an influential part of the conservative party, Verenna could spread her views on noblesse oblige there. After all, parties like these are never monolithic, and if we can sway them even a little towards their best tendencies, I will consider it a victory.

[X][ALOCE] Verenna Relund, Vallefor's cousin and conservative with a heart of gold.

Looking at the agitation in the army, I am now sure that we must hurry to restore the domestic intelligence network. I don't even know what's worse - if it turns out to be the machinations of enemy spies or the genuine initiative of the officers.

As far as marriage candidates go, this is certainly an interesting bunch. I agree that Gaius Rodela is an unlikely candidate, given that we are far from even overcoming our own problems. Princess Morvaka is an interesting candidate, marrying her will help Vanessa eliminate the headache of going to war with her country and will give her a strong ally in the wars. On the other hand, if Morvak angers another neighbour or several of them, we will certainly have to help them in a defensive war, and that is a dangerous undertaking. And finally the daughter of Archnecromancer Lyrus... an interesting option. On the one hand, this may outrage many people. On the other hand, Vanessa's Kingdom was once part of the Necromancer Kingdom, and a dynastic marriage means that they recognize the separation and will not try to restore "historical justice." More than with any other candidate, it all depends on her character and probably her willingness to stop practising necromancy, but it could work.

As for the bandits, I want to think about it more.

Eternal_0bserver said:

@Kylia Quilor, is there a moratorium on voting this time?

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There is not. Voting will be probably the rest of the week, just because I'll be in no position to write the next update either way until closer to Sunday anyway. I should have said that. I'll edit it into my post when I have a moment free.

geraldrold said:

[X] plan: Name pending
-[X][ALOCE] Vaelan Mokkar, the gruff old soldier without patience
-[X][BANDIT TARGET] South Eyrist Country
-[X][BANDIT HUNTER] General Trins (His Trait Grants +5 to Plan Task)
-[X][BANDIT PLAN] Steel Core, Soft Edges (A skirmisher and cavalry-focused plan. Use skirmishers in large detachments to scout and draw out bandit attacks, and then respond with Heavy Cavalry at the core of Light Cavalry forces. Risks high casualties, but has a high chance of putting bandits to the sword with real completeness) [Base Chace 70% + Martial]

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Fwiw, a plan is not required.

Kylia Quilor said:

Fwiw, a plan is not required.

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yeah but its neat

[X][ALOCE] Cesla Corvosti, the banker and modernizer with a ruthless street

[X][BANDIT TARGET] South Eyrist Country

[X][BANDIT HUNTER] General Darach (Her Trait Reduces Casualties)

[X][BANDIT PLAN] Steel Core, Soft Edges (A skirmisher and cavalry-focused plan. Use skirmishers in large detachments to scout and draw out bandit attacks, and then respond with Heavy Cavalry at the core of Light Cavalry forces. Risks high casualties, but has a high chance of putting bandits to the sword with real completeness) [Base Chace 70% + Martial]

Just so that it is clear, since the way SV works can mean people may have missed it:

Voting is OPEN

[X][ALOCE] Verenna Relund, Vallefor's cousin and conservative with a heart of gold
[X][BANDIT TARGET] South Eyrist Country
[X][BANDIT HUNTER] General Darach (Her Trait Reduces Casualties)
[X][BANDIT PLAN] Steel Core, Soft Edges (A skirmisher and cavalry-focused plan. Use skirmishers in large detachments to scout and draw out bandit attacks, and then respond with Heavy Cavalry at the core of Light Cavalry forces. Risks high casualties, but has a high chance of putting bandits to the sword with real completeness) [Base Chace 70% + Martial]

I can't say I understand the attraction to Cesla. She might be a moderniser, but she seems to me by far the least likeable, and the one who is most likely to not care about the people of the county.

[X][ALOCE] Verenna Relund, Vallefor's cousin and conservative with a heart of gold
[X][BANDIT TARGET] South Eyrist Country

I feel like looking at what we hear about the three new candidates for marriage and their countries.

Kylia Quilor said:

She saw a woman, dark skin, long black hair, wearing black, weaving magic around her hand. She saw skeletons on the march, she saw a man pale with death, a crown inlaid with onyx and obsidian, his person decorated with skull imagery, speaking to the woman. She saw the woman eying a portrait of her thoughtfully, though Vanessa hadn't yet sat for any portraits, sipping on a glass of blood-red wine. She saw the woman setting out, leaving tall, dark forests, blinking against sunlight and she saw armored figures arrayed behind and before her, light and shadow warring around her. She saw black tendrils spreading out, and she saw gleaming roads rebuilt all across Halrun.

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Kylia Quilor said:

The Kingdom of the Necromancers: The last remnant of the ancient Necrotic Empire. Despite repeated attempts by the Knights of the Golden Throne and others, the dark magic permeating Darkmoon Forest is too strong, and the necromancers' armies of the undead, far easier to command within the confines of the forest itself, too numerous to defeat on the offense. The living population of the Kingdom is broadly loyal to the traditions of High Necromancy and the scheming, backstabbing necromancer-nobility of the Kingdom spare their evil for eachother or periodic attempts at conquest, at least historically. 76 years ago, the current Archnecromancer, Lyrus Serriados came to power and issued the Sunset Proclamation, formally ceding any claims to the lands once ruled by the Necrotic Empire, and Lyrus has opened the Kingdom up to trade and travel, doing much to reduce their pariah status in the world. This is not a popular decision with some of the nobles, and the risk of a more militant Archnecromancer overthrowing him keeps the Kingdom's neighbors wary. Lyrus is also now known to have (quietly) provided money and intelligence to the rebellion against Syrokis during the first year of the war.

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The first new candidate seems to be the daughter of the current Archnecromancer, who decided to try a more diplomatic approach for dealing with the rest of the world, including supporting our rebellion. The daughter seems to be a mage too, likely a necromancer like her father, and based on the portrait of Vanessa, it seems like she might already have an interest in our queen. It also seems likely, that she might attempt to offer the use of undead labor to help rebuilding our roads.

Kylia Quilor said:

The image shifted and she saw a tall and strong man with brown hair and brown beard, a crown riven in two, half of it on his head, half on the head of another man that he fought. She saw him fighting side by side with ranks of faceless soldiers, but constantly keeping one eye on his allies. She saw him searching, looking desperately for a light. And she saw a tattered, burning flag overlaying the whole vision, a flag she recognized. She saw the man holding court in a dimly lit room she knew had just been fought over. She saw him argue with a sneering man holding a bag of gold in one hand and a knife in the other, offering both.

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Kylia Quilor said:

Zarsim: Once, before the rise of Morvak, the Kingdom of Great Zar was a major power in the region. Morvak conquered Zar, annexing what is now Velermarch, and the southern half of Zarsim proper, as well as putting puppets on the throne in the rest of Zarsim, and Balpes (not to mention Selissa and Nerinthar). The century and more that southern Zarsim was under Morvakian direct control changed the region, culturally and economically, and while many were happy to be independent of Morvak due to the latter's exploitative and oppressive rule... they found that northern Zarsim's attempts to roll back the clock culturally increasingly intolerable. Generation after generation, the north would erode the agreements they originally made to bring the people of the south back into the fold, and seven years ago, it broke out into open civil war. Morvak quickly provided men and money to the south, and they picked Morvak as the lesser evil. Selissa and Zedarsh provided aid to the North, but as the war dragged on into a seeming stalemate, Zedarsh withdrew. South Zarsim and North Zarsim have engaged in a back and forth conflict that is little more than a Morvak-Selissa proxy war at this point.

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The second new candidate is said to be the king of South Zarsim, which is the part of Zarsim currently allied with Morvak, though it does seem like there is limited trust between South Zarsim and Morvak, which likely mean that the king is looking for a better ally, than Morvak, that might get Selissa to stop supporting North Zarsim. I am not sure what he might offer to make a marriage worth it, though my best guess is a personal union with South Zarsim and removing a potential ally from Morvak.

Kylia Quilor said:

Once more, the image shifted, revealing another woman. This one was fighting, her red braid flying in the wind behind her as she fought on an open field, hacking down enemies that surrounded her, her foes intent on stabbing her back, but some who surrounded her seemed to be her own side. She saw the woman driving her sword into a map on a table, arguing with soldiers twice her age. She saw her arguing with a bald man with a red mustache, sitting slouched in a throne decorated in red and brown. She saw the woman paint two pictures - a rich man counting his coin as his house burned down around him, and the same rich man with less coin before him, but an intact home decorated with the richest and finest luxuries.

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Kylia Quilor said:

The Kingdom of Morvak: A militant, densely populated nation with a massive chip on it's shoulder, Morvak once ruled, directly or through client rulers, modern Hengri, most of Illegorst, Nerinthar, Selissa, North and South Zarsim, Balpes and the Gryphan Alliance, as well as parts of southeastern Halrun. Though they lost most of the Empire over a century ago, and Syrokis took their land in Halrun during the first years of his reign, Morvak has never given up on taking it all back. They are almost always at war with one of their neighbors, and their borders shift quite regularly as a result. Had Morvak not been at war with Nerinthar when the rebellion against Syrokis broke out, they would almost certainly have taken the opportunity to invade. Domestically, Morvak proper is a land where the nobility have been broadly broken to the royal will, and their soldiers - especially their nearly legendary Cataphracts - are among the most capable and disciplined in the region. Morvak's great weakness is their general unwillingness to use diplomacy for much more than saber-rattling and their tendency towards strategic rigidity, despite regular efforts to correct for it.

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The third new candidate is said to be one of the two daughters of the king of Morvak and based on the vision, it sounds like she is part of an internal power struggle in Morvak, perhaps fighting her sister. She seems to be trying to push a vision for Morvak that involves the kingdom spending "coins" on preventing the kingdom burning down, which I would interpret as her wanting Morvak to adopt a more diplomatic approach, which might involve the kingdom giving out concession. This I partly based on that she is a potential candidate for marriage and that Morvak would likely have to give up their claim on the Thornmarch for that to be possible.


[X][BANDIT TARGET] South Eyrist Country
[X][BANDIT HUNTER] General Darach (Her Trait Reduces Casualties)
[X][BANDIT PLAN] Steel Core, Soft Edges (A skirmisher and cavalry-focused plan. Use skirmishers in large detachments to scout and draw out bandit attacks, and then respond with Heavy Cavalry at the core of Light Cavalry forces. Risks high casualties, but has a high chance of putting bandits to the sword with real completeness) [Base Chace 70% + Martial]

Mortenkam said:

The third new candidate is said to be one of the two daughters of the king of Morvak and based on the vision, it sounds like she is part of an internal power struggle in Morvak, perhaps fighting her sister. She seems to be trying to push a vision for Morvak that involves the kingdom spending "coins" on preventing the kingdom burning down, which I would interpret as her wanting Morvak to adopt a more diplomatic approach, which might involve the kingdom giving out concession. This I partly based on that she is a potential candidate for marriage and that Morvak would likely have to give up their claim on the Thornmarch for that to be possible.

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That's an interesting interpretation, that's one possibility of how it could turn out.
I interpreted it more as her not getting her way and things being less diplomatic.
After all, she not only argues but is also attacked by people who should be on her side.
This could either mean that she needs support to survive (and win) in Morvak or even an option to go into exile.
Then military action might be necessary to unite both countries under a new dynasty (ours and hers).
A lot of risk but also a very big reward.

Of course, it could also be that everything happens peacefully and we get an alliance, but if it's not possible for us to give up Thornmarch, then I don't think it's possible for Morvak to do so peacefully either.
A final solution to this conflict could perhaps only be achieved if Thornmarch is part of both countries.

[X][ALOCE] Verenna Relund, Vallefor's cousin and conservative with a heart of gold.
[X][BANDIT TARGET] South Eyrist Country
[X][BANDIT HUNTER] General Darach (Her Trait Reduces Casualties)
[X][BANDIT PLAN] Steel Core, Soft Edges (A skirmisher and cavalry-focused plan. Use skirmishers in large detachments to scout and draw out bandit attacks, and then respond with Heavy Cavalry at the core of Light Cavalry forces. Risks high casualties, but has a high chance of putting bandits to the sword with real completeness) [Base Chace 70% + Martial]

Informal tally. Voting is not closed, but we are tied for who gets Aloce.

[X][ALOCE] Verenna Relund, Vallefor's cousin and conservative with a heart of gold.

[X][BANDIT TARGET] South Eyrist Country
[X][BANDIT HUNTER] General Darach (Her Trait Reduces Casualties)
[X][BANDIT PLAN] Steel Core, Soft Edges (A skirmisher and cavalry-focused plan. Use skirmishers in large detachments to scout and draw out bandit attacks, and then respond with Heavy Cavalry at the core of Light Cavalry forces. Risks high casualties, but has a high chance of putting bandits to the sword with real completeness) [Base Chace 70% + Martial]

No vote for Alcoe from me. The choices are all rather difficult and I can't decide.

Eternal_0bserver said:

And finally the daughter of Archnecromancer Lyrus... an interesting option

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Also she's really hot. And that's a pretty big plus in my book.

sunsunsunsunsun said:

Also she's really hot. And that's a pretty big plus in my book.

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I somehow suspected it might be for some people.

sunsunsunsunsun said:

Also she's really hot. And that's a pretty big plus in my book.

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True, but there is one problem.
In the words of Illidan Stormrage: "You reek of death, human."

T.T said:

True, but there is one problem.
In the words of Illidan Stormrage: "You reek of death, human."

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Essinya isn't a Lich, if that's what you mean. Her dad is now (and has been for ~25 years), but she's a living, breathing human.

Kylia Quilor said:

Essinya isn't a Lich, if that's what you mean. Her dad is now (and has been for ~25 years), but she's a living, breathing human.

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Not really, it was more of a Warcraft 3 reference/joke that probably didn't really land.
I think Arthas (who was referred to in the quote) was still alive as a death knight, but death magic isn't really nice in Warcraft and it must be quite a smell problem if you're constantly surrounded by ghouls.
I mean, as a necromancer you definitely have to bathe often to make it bearable, unless the magic works differently here.

T.T said:

Not really, it was more of a Warcraft 3 reference/joke that probably didn't really land.
I think Arthas (who was referred to in the quote) was still alive as a death knight, but death magic isn't really nice in Warcraft and it must be quite a smell problem if you're constantly surrounded by ghouls.
I mean, as a necromancer you definitely have to bathe often to make it bearable, unless the magic works differently here.

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The Kingdom of the Necromancers doesn't smell like rotting corpses outside the workshops, generally. There's a reason why skeletons are their preferred undead rather than zombies.

The KoTN's whole schtick (as will be shown on-screen sooner or later) is that they see themselves as practicing a "higher" form of necromancy than others. More "refined" and "dignified" and fancy. So they don't let their sentient undead decay at all, at least if their magic they're using has anything to say about it, and the non-sentient undead are generally either fully alchemically preserved or just made skeletons after being cleaned.

I mean, metaphorically she 'reeks' of death in the sense of being surrounded by it and stuff, but she doesn't actually smell like death or anything, unless she was just in the lab or something, but that smell can be cleaned off, and it's not as though she'll take her lab or workshop with her on a diplomatic/courtship visit.

Thats good to hear. Besides the smell question with necromancy, it's always a little difficult to judge how the magic works depending on the system.
For example, negative effects of long-term use (for the body) or negative consequences of being long time exposed to creatures that have been revived do not seem to be the case here.
Then of course there is the concept of souls and how neromancy deals with them.
I assume furthermore that the non-sentient undead mentioned are rather constructs and do not house souls that need to be laid to rest and sentient undead are voluntarily undead and not somehow enslaved.

I just don't know if that's described somewhere and I missed/forgot it. Necromancy varies greatly depending on the system and I've always assumed that the Knights of the Golden Throne had good reasons, even if the necromancers are being diplomatic right now.

Hmm, do you think using the undead to restore roads is a progressive queen's decision, as it goes against traditional methods in favour of more efficient ones, or a sign of radical conservatism, given that this is how these roads were built in the first place?

Eternal_0bserver said:

Hmm, do you think using the undead to restore roads is a progressive queen's decision, as it goes against traditional methods in favour of more efficient ones, or a sign of radical conservatism, given that this is how these roads were built in the first place?

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I suspect most people will probably lean towards progressive - because I doubt cultural memories will truly have lasted that long to make the association.

If we really want, we can let Vallefor and Balmain interpret it in their own direction.
One can pull a few old books out of the basement and the other can write a few articles touting it as the latest fashion.

If I remained serious it would probably be at least political suicide.
Not just because the knights have a problem with their crusade becoming meaningless if we practice necromacy again.
We would also make ordinary people unemployed, which would mean major disruptions in the economy.
Then we would have a permanent foreign army in the country that we cannot control because we are not necromancers and all of our nobles would be worried that they would be replaced as a result.
Furthermore, I've heard the theory that the Roman Empire had the technology to start an industrial revolution, but no incentive to start something like that because they had cheap access to slaves. I think undead work could lead to the same stagnation and I would like to imagine that we will be industrialized in a few hundred years, if everything stays as it is.