Full Steam Ahead: A Train Designer Quest

Should design phases voting be on a generalized focus or on Specifics


  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .
[] Tender
[] Side Tanks
[] Coke

The Tender because it can hold more fuel and a small alcove on the Engine itself can hold a bit like in irl trains, The side tanks as both protection for the engine and they should have a good capacity for water, and finally Coke because it's a really good fuel source
 
So I don't think we want to use lignite, that stuff is harmful as hell with the only major upside being how cheap it is.
I don't know enough about those different water storage locations to know about upsides and downsides but I don't think we should add another tender if we put the fuel in a tender as that would make things way more complex for moving stuff around.
so to help clear any confusion if both tender options were taken the majority of the tender would be a water jacket surrounding a storage bunker for fuel as the vast majority of resources used is actually water. Also lignite is the only coal you would have available for now do not approach this from a more modern view point in terms of harm.
 
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So it seems that we are going to be using water at a much faster rate than fuel, so I think having the water in a tender behind the car will probably make our train go much further than if it were anywhere otherwise. Though having the fuel also in the tender is a waste of space and apparently having some extra weight on the wheels is a good thing, also easier for the driver to access.

[X] On the footplate
[X] Tender
[X] Cordwood

I picked cordwood for the fuel because coal only started replacing wood as fuel well into the 1860s and I'm pretty sure we are much earlier in the timeline (wrong word but you get what I mean), plus it seems lignite is just pretty awful as a fuel source and probably not that much better than cordwood while coke is better but much more expensive and rare.
 
So it seems that we are going to be using water at a much faster rate than fuel, so I think having the water in a tender behind the car will probably make our train go much further than if it were anywhere otherwise. Though having the fuel also in the tender is a waste of space and apparently having some extra weight on the wheels is a good thing, also easier for the driver to access.

[X] On the footplate
[X] Tender
[X] Cordwood

I picked cordwood for the fuel because coal only started replacing wood as fuel well into the 1860s and I'm pretty sure we are much earlier in the timeline (wrong word but you get what I mean), plus it seems lignite is just pretty awful as a fuel source and probably not that much better than cordwood while coke is better but much more expensive and rare.
Uh. No? Coke would be quite common in this time period as it had a myriad of other industrial uses and the tender's whole purpose is to carry water and fuel. I'm not trying to be rude but calling fuel in the fuel cart a "waste of space" is just a daft statement that I have never heard ever before.

Plus, and here's a bone for you all, coke burns cleaner because y'all don't have a firebox arch yet because future tech which will allow for better burning of smokes.
 
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I have now edited the older post to include additional things such as advantages and disadvantages
 
Uh. No? Coke would be quite common in this time period as it had a myriad of other industrial uses and the tender's whole purpose is to carry water and fuel. I'm not trying to be rude but calling fuel in the fuel cart a "waste of space" is just a daft statement that I have never heard ever before.

Plus, and here's a bone for you all, coke burns cleaner because y'all don't have a firebox arch yet because future tech which will allow for better burning of smokes.

A waste of space in the sense, that carrying a fuel cart that carries both water and fuel is a waste, having a cart that carries just water which seems to be used much more than fuel and having a smaller compartment for fuel on board just seems like basic logic to me.

Though, about Coke but (i don't know where I got that from but) that was the impression i was under, steam engines still did use wood until the 1860s, at least in the US which we are the analogue of, so maybe they didn't use Coke for another reason.

E: just had a look, and it seems that wood was used because hauling out extra coke or coal as fuel across the Midwest/Great Plains was less efficient and more expensive than just using wood, this seems to be still relevant for us as we are colonising an undeveloped interior, so I think picking wood is still the better option.
 
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[X] Tender
[X] Inverted Saddle
[X] Lignite

Inverted Saddle water tanks have my vote because they lower our center of gravity giving better performance on narrow of poorly made tracks. The Well Tanks give that as well but, the trade off of distance is a bit much but, Inverted Side Saddle helps to mitigate that issue slightly. Going for tender mounted for the fuel will help mitigate some of the distance issues as well.

I wanted to choose Lignite for our fuel but, it crap burn temp makes me hesitant. Coke is expensive thought so, guess we go lignite. Curious why Standard ass Black Coal isn't an option but, won't argue.
 
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Curious why Standard ass Black Coal isn't an option but, won't argue
the anthracite and bituminous coal deposits have not yet been discovered in this nation and it'd be hella expensive to try and import any from the Union or the Kingdom of Marble once time progresses in the quest a little the deposits should be found in

Also a side note but there is no Inverted Side Saddle option only Side Tank or Inverted Saddle
 
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the anthracite and bituminous coal deposits have not yet been discovered in this nation and it'd be hella expensive to try and import any from the Union or the Kingdom of Marble once time progresses in the quest a little the deposits should be found in

Also a side note but there is no Inverted Side Saddle option only Side Tank or Inverted Saddle
Got it. Meant to vote for Inverted Saddle.
 
I think some of these questions depend on who we're trying to sell to and what the infrastructre they're on will be like.

Place Like England? Then we probably don't need the bigger fuel box
Place like Russia? Definitely want that big fuel box.
 
Russia and United States scale nations would need full on double tender builds.
I think some of these questions depend on who we're trying to sell to and what the infrastructre they're on will be like.

Place Like England? Then we probably don't need the bigger fuel box
Place like Russia? Definitely want that big fuel box.

We are the The Federal Steel Republic, we are a United States analogue also described a 'large nation' FYI
 
wood being more accessible does give me pause along with lignite being so sooty but I'm wondering if because it burns so sooty we'll jump onto those discoveries on how to deal with it sooner
and if using coal so early on in train development might help accelerate discoveries and innovations and inventions

also maybe by not taking wood we'll be able to help stem the tide of deforestation
 
wood being more accessible does give me pause along with lignite being so sooty but I'm wondering if because it burns so sooty we'll jump onto those discoveries on how to deal with it sooner
and if using coal so early on in train development might help accelerate discoveries and innovations and inventions

also maybe by not taking wood we'll be able to help stem the tide of deforestation
Only way to counter deforestation in this kind of era is to force people to do proper forest management and that would be a hard fight.
 
We are the The Federal Steel Republic, we are a United States analogue also described a 'large nation' FYI

In terms of size imagine if you would if someone had smashed the three largest countries on earth together and you approach the size of the FSR

Only way to counter deforestation in this kind of era is to force people to do proper forest management and that would be a hard fight.
not as hard as real life there are elves and others that live in the forests that would do their level best to promote this
 
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[X] Tender
[X] Side Tanks
[X] Lignite

Readily available and straightforward, nothing that makes potential buyer ask what's that.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Zeroth Jupi on Feb 13, 2023 at 6:46 PM, finished with 20 posts and 5 votes.


well time is now up for voting the winning votes are a fuel tender, inverted saddle tanks for water and lignite as the fuel source! I will try to get this out as expeditiously as possible.
 
Hey y'all, just letting you know that this project's gonna be put on hold for an indeterminate amount of time. We're both experiencing an increasing level of burnout and this has become a bit of a chore, to the point of dreading it waking up. If we happen to get inspiration, we'll write and maybe even post, but for the moment, consider this paused for the time. Sorry to those of you who're excited for this. Lilith will return, so keep your chins up.
 
0-8
Finally, things were settled after Mr. Sutter's little stunt, and they had only themselves to blame for not going beyond as he did. There were surprisingly little ill-held grudges over this as your employees understood just what Mr. Sutter accomplished. The same could even be said towards the latest design phase as they debated the primary fuel to be designed around.

Mr. Sutter advocated for Cordwood citing that trees were in abundance everywhere in the Federal Steel Republic's lands and while there would need to be preparative work done to any wood taken by felled trees to make them suitable to fit into the firebox the low costs more than made up for it.

Surprisingly and more than a mite suspiciously Ms. Silvers and Mr. Lane had declared a truce and advocated for the use of Lignite, they primarily focused on the costs of the material much like Mr. Sutter along with the additional heat it would provide compared to cordwood. The downside was during the first batch of tests of a small batch to determine the burn rate of the coal, the local fire brigade had mustered at your factory due to all the smoke thinking it was from a building fire.

That was rather embarrassing to resolve, especially as the head fireman gave you a piercing glare as you attempted to explain what you were doing before he understood. You were issued a formal warning to inform the local brigade of any future tests before he left muttering about upstart Elves and their foolish ideas. Uppity little Goblin and his lackeys harrumph.

Your second batch of tests with the Lignite proved far more promising as once you had managed to get the coal up to a suitable temperature in the test boiler, it had burned far more cleanly than you had expected. It was by no means clean of course but certainly, it wasn't what you had feared from the previous test.

And finally, Mr. Baker advocated the use of Coke as the primary fuel to design around despite the rather hefty costs he believed he would be able to secure a cheaper source provided none asked any questions of legality. Questionable legalities aside for that endeavor the batch you tested burned quite well and cleanly. But it required quite a bit of time to attain a high enough temperature for the boiler to be happy.

Following a few more rounds of testing with the various fuels, and even a few mixtures of fuels, you came upon the use of lignite with a cordwood starter to be most effective to work around, necessitating the holder of the fuel to be one for holding the black, sooty stuff.

That led to your next problem. Where were you going to put the holder for the fuel? The obvious location would be on the engine itself on a footplate. That would allow the operator to have immediate access to the fuel to feed the boilers, but there would only be so much space available for the coal and for that matter, the fireman needed to shovel the fuel in. Surprisingly only Mr. Baker was a proponent of this option.

The rest of them opted for a different approach: Having a cart towed behind the engine to hold the fuel for it. This had the benefits of giving much more fuel capacity, more room for the mechanics and firemen, and looked good from a distance. The main downside was that this was an extra wagon and extra weight, but this was deemed an acceptable price by the advocates of this approach.

It was all well and good you had thought like the inexperienced fool that you were until Mr. Sutter asked where the water would be stored bringing any thoughts of setting down the ink-stained plans for the night to a screeching halt.

It was far too late now to try and reconfigure the design to incorporate water into the fuel tender with some form of a mix without also spending a sleepless night figuring out the ratio needed for storage.

So it was decided that the water storage would have to go in tanks on the engine itself. Immediate side tanks were out due to the mechanical elements being in the way, but there was a good few other ways to give the engine a tank.

You had two readily available options now, a well tank where the tank would sit underneath the chassis above the rails. Such an arrangement would provide more adhesive weight at the cost of space taken up by the tank as well as having to design the tank to have clearance no matter the rail.

The other option was a design that feels ahead of its time that being the inverted saddle tank. Essentially a water tank positioned still on the underside of the engine but instead of being sunken into the floor it would be underneath the boiler in the form of a horseshoe or the letter U forming past the frame.

[]Enclosed cab
- Advantages: Driver and fireman protected from the elements
- Disadvantages: Additional weight

[]Semi-enclosed cab
- Advantages - Driver and fireman protected from some elements
- Disadvantages - Additional weight

[]Cabless
- Advantages: No additional weight
- Disadvantages: Driver and fireman unprotected from the elements


AN: Jupiter: Well it's been a long while and that's partly my fault I was not prepared to write this section the way I wanted before I burnt out and then I got busy doing other things, for that I apologize. As recompense have a chapter and the final design choices vote. Before I go though Voting will be open until 5:00 PM CST on July 24 now for Hori's train facts.

Hori: In 1886, there was a period of 2 days where the entire network of 5' gauge track in the Southern United States, a network of about 11,500 miles, was shifted over to 4'9", a close enough standard to allow 4'8.5" train of the north to run with limited complications over the newly adjusted network.

Jupi: Thank you Hori dear now I hope everyone enjoyed it because despite how long it took I did have fun writing this.
 
Nice, you two are back.
it's nice to be back even though it took a while to overcome that burnout and get going again also I have recently bought some books on locomotive design so that should hopefully give me more insight than what I already have to apply into this for y'all!
 
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