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A Light in the End of Time (Warhammer Fantasy/Fate)

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We have a... Well, she's not a lizard, but she's also not a dragon. We have a flying snake? They have flying snakes. Let her offer them the gift of toads.
 
Honestly I'm quite interested in seeing how the Elves and, maybe in the far future Cathay even, reacts to Oryou since Ryouma's a guaranteed summon at this point. Humans too I'd guess but they're less likely to really get the difference. Unlike any dragons besides the Cathayan ones, and even then she's quite a bit different. Makes me wonder how they'd react to characters like Artoria with her dragon blood, or Melusine with her being a weird dragon fairy as well.
 
TheCynicalPogo said:
Honestly I'm quite interested in seeing how the Elves and, maybe in the far future Cathay even, reacts to Oryou since Ryouma's a guaranteed summon at this point. Humans too I'd guess but they're less likely to really get the difference. Unlike any dragons besides the Cathayan ones, and even then she's quite a bit different. Makes me wonder how they'd react to characters like Artoria with her dragon blood, or Melusine with her being a weird dragon fairy as well.
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Avalon le Fae is a fairy. Silly cynic.

Although trust me, Lizardmen and elves and dragons appreciate the difference.

Being blunt, you are probably running into the elves at some point, since, well, Ulthuan kinda is the keystone holding chaos in sorta check. Cathay is... a bit more questionable. Its half a world away.
 
BlackHadou said:
Avalon le Fae is a fairy. Silly cynic.

Although trust me, Lizardmen and elves and dragons appreciate the difference.

Being blunt, you are probably running into the elves at some point, since, well, Ulthuan kinda is the keystone holding chaos in sorta check. Cathay is... a bit more questionable. Its half a world away.
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Oh I meant normal Saber Artoria lol. I guess we'll still see that reaction though since Mordred has the same dragon blood thing going on as Artoria I think cause of Morgan's shenanigans…hah, now there's a thought actually. If summoning Ishtar, Gil, or/and Enkidu would've been a really bad idea, I can't even imagine how much of a catastrophe summoning Morgan would've been lol
 
Random thought: you've said that summoning a foreigner is a bad idea, but what about Voyager? He's only in the class by technicality.
 
Cubbyhb1 said:
Random thought: you've said that summoning a foreigner is a bad idea, but what about Voyager? He's only in the class by technicality.
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Still potentially a bad idea, celestial omens matter and the stars occasionally represent certain divinities. He'd probably put us on the radars of some rather unpleasant customers to say the least.
 
Crow said:
Because he's insanely booooriiiinnggg.
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Dullness aside, there's also the issue of limited application. His only passable stat is Martial, and he takes a harsh penalty to it when not in single combat or hunting monsters. This is a role already filled by Beowulf with a higher base Martial score and comparable anti-monster/demon bonus, without the caveat of being unable to effectively lead an army. Touta's stats and skills are hyperspecialized, but he still gets outperformed in his specialty by someone with a more varied skillset on top of it.

The rice is his only real benefit, and it's one that we've been told outright would only really be useful if we get ourselves stuck in the chaos wastes. Honestly, having him in the first place invites the temptation of lazy supply plans that could see us starve from the death of one man. A food supply that invites overextension and can disappear out from under us isn't worth the flexible applications of a generalist like Mordred, Sakamoto's coalition building, a one man army and saboteur like Sanada, Nobunaga's management of the court and Unifying the Nation by Force's pretty widely applicable Martial buff, combat monsters like Cu or Herakles (the former of which is also guaranteed to produce provisions while operating near rivers, so Touta can't even claim uniqueness for providing extra food), or more readily applicable special niches like de Ruyter's naval focus and extra dice during trade negotiations.
 
Whattttt this. A theory crafting heaven of a quest?

Pika... can't.... resist.

*One and a half hour later*

Okay so the goal is to Enable Arturia's kingdom as best as possible, so we need a descent spread of stats. With 5 picks but many considerations I settled my priorities by the local situation

BRETONIA
​
Bretonia is primarily a medieval-ish country with weak serfs and very powerful horsy/holy boys.

Bretonnia militarily tend to stray towards 2 extremes, mobile powerful horsy using elites and a many many many of weak grunts.

For our purpose Bretonia counter strats needs to be ready simply because the threat of effectively being able to defend/wage war is probablyu our best deterent from Bretonia aggresion. In that respects we need to either counter/stall their horsy bois or be able to slaughter/freighten the grunts.

That said we still need to actually rule the land so as such the first part of my proposed party is

Mordred / Oda nobunaga / Sakumoto Ryoma​

These 3 are the core component of our party, making it much more well rounded and a lot less prone to critical area of weakness.

Specifically Mordred is a generalist, Oda is a good general intrigue unit) , and sakumoto is great at diplomacy.

They dont have bonuses that are great to coutner Bretonnia shenanigans , but even so the general abilities would make Artoria less likely to suffer from critical flaws in her composition.

However the second component, though it's much more specific in that it's meant to solidify our position in Bretonia are

Robin Hood/Beowulf
​
This combo is primarily to deal with Bretonia shenanigans.

Robin Hood specialise in intrigue and has one thing that will help our early game, namely that he operates in the wood and his myth targets the medieval nobles . Both of which fits the Bretonia start we have. If we take his lore from the Fate Wiki he is basically a guerilla warfare hero who can stall small armies as they march through his territory

Beowulf is our superheavy since chances are we'll need to fight many powerful elites and a reliable way to deal with them is needed. Herakles is technically better for this role, but the corruption weakness is a bit too risky for me.


[X] Mordred Pendragon
-[X] Saber
[X] Sakamoto Ryouma
-[X] Lancer
[X] Oda Nobunaga
-[X] Avenger
[X] Beowulf
-[X] Berserker
[X] Robin Hood
-[X] Archer
 
[X]Sigurd
-[X] Saber
[X] Robin Hood
-[X] Archer
[X] Achilles
-[X] Rider
[X] Cu Chulainn
-[X]Lancer
[X] Asclepius
-[X] Caster
 
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[X] Mordred Pendragon
-[X] Saber
[X] Sakamoto Ryouma
-[X] Lancer
[X] Oda Nobunaga
-[X] Avenger
[X] Beowulf
-[X] Berserker
[X] Robin Hood
-[X] Archer
 
Can we have a stat sheet for Robin Hood?

That said, I'll note that we're not necessarily in armed conflict with the Bretonnians at the start. They're what we have to deal with because we're right there with them, not what we have to "deal with", necessarily.
 
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Robin Hood is a good idea if our goal was just conquering Bretonnia, great option for messing up the nobles, which are their main strength. We have long term goals of saving the world from Chaos however, and much like Tawara, he falls off hard later on, accomplishing one small goal while sacrificing a Servant slot for the future, and as such he just kinda becomes a mediocre option. Heck, he's not even a monster slayer or hunter or whatever like Tawara so he's kinda even more useless once Bretonnia is under our heel
 
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Example Sheet Robin Hood
  • Apocrypha
    • Nanimani said:
    Can we have a stat sheet for Robin Hood?
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    Robin Hood
    Age: 27
    Height: 5'7
    Weight: 65kg
    Gender: Male
    Alignment: Neutral Good
    Class: Archer
    Hidden Attributes: Human, Faerie

    Diplomacy: 4
    Martial: 11
    Stewardship: 8
    Intrigue: 13
    Learning: 6

    Traits
    Faerie Eyes
    Skip rolling to identify magical effects. Benefits of enemy illusions are cancelled.
    Mmm? Yes, I see them.

    Subversion
    This character has an extensive knowledge of traps, poisons and other such techniques. By rolling an opposed intrigue check against the lord of an army, they can make actions that hinder the entire army. However, these effects are limited to debilitating and lethal effects.
    Slowly, through the forest. Cut them down one by one.

    Bounty and Plunder
    When victorious against enemies and choosing to plunder, roll an additional 1d6 while plundering, looting or pillaging. However, when supplying the gains of war to a settlement, roll 1d20. On a 1, the settlement's opinion turns on Robin Hood.
    No good deed goes unpunished.

    Druidcraft (May King)
    Can use magic. Specifically, the alchemy-like abilities of the forest that resemble potion and poison crafting. Use intrigue instead of learning for the purposes of using magic.
    Just some tricks I learned from my father.

    Once May King
    At the beginning of every warfare round, roll intrigue vs the opposing lords. On success, Robin Hood is invisible as an individual, rendering him immune to damage. Effects that see through invisibility break this effect, and attacks that pierce invulnerability ignore this effect. For each additional army in warfare, lower Robin Hood's intrigue for the purposes of this ability by 1. Mage's may roll learning instead of intrigue in response. Robin Hood's attacks are always poisoned.
    Quietly, lest the mages hear us.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Yeah, everything else in his kit was basically as expected, except being a fairy.
     
    Evillevi said:
    Okay so the goal is to Enable Arturia's kingdom as best as possible, so we need a descent spread of stats. With 5 picks but many considerations I settled my priorities by the local situation
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    I'm in agreement on the general framework and most of these choices, and this seems like as good a point as any to get into the logic for it.

    At the core of any proposal needs to be the strengths and weaknesses of our Lord and first Hero, who will be present regardless of the vote's outcome. Arturia is a high Learning character with secondaries in Diplomacy and Intrigue. With traits for multiple branches of magecraft to boot we don't need a dedicated Mage Hero, and she can basically manage public campaigning with the extra Persuasion die from Charisma of Hope. Despite her low Martial score she's our only Legendary Lord that can have Muramasa attached, meaning she shares his 20 Martial thanks to his War Adjunct. The two are designed to be glued together, so they should be judged as a single unit. That said Muramasa's skills are otherwise middling when not taking advantage of Grand Smith, so the two should be kept at home together when possible.

    In short, by default we have a governing pair that can handle magical issues, ensure stable production of arms and armor, defend themselves from direct threats, and keep up public support. The most obvious shortcomings I see for them are the limits of their Stewardship and Intrigue.

    The former is addressed by Mordred's extra die for greasing bureaucratic wheels, along with Beowulf's heightened stats when aiding a settlement and accelerated construction time. The pair are versatile units that can be effective on the battlefield or in an office, and which is better placed where will depend on what we're at war with that day. On top of which, Beowulf's monster slaying capability doesn't prevent him from leading the masses into combat.

    Nobunaga addresses the second shortcoming as an Intrigue character with a trait set that encourages keeping him at home, at least until/unless we expand our roster in such a way that someone better suited to managing backroom dealings and defending us from the same becomes available. By that point, we should have been able to source enough firearms to give him command of a rifle battalion, letting him leverage the positive elements of Strategy. Should we still need to suppress traditionalist Bretonnian holdouts, their lower tech will also trigger his second die from Unifying the Nation by Force. This is the first of two Intrigue roles that I'd like filled early.

    Intrigue has its role at home, and a role on the battlefield. Military leaders who lack it will have no alternative to a direct confrontation, possibly against a force that already successfully cut your supply lines, convinced officers to sell you out, etc. I want a second Intrigue character to defend our forces against and make use of these methods. Mordred's Intrigue is alright, but no matter how many things she could do, it would be unreasonable to expect her to do all of them at once. I don't think Robin Hood is a bad choice for a guerilla role, but looking at his sheet I'm not convinced his bag of tricks and extra loot makes him a better choice for it than Sanada's explicit ability to perform all espionage actions while also operating as a one man battalion during combat.

    The need for Sakamoto's diplomatic spec is so obvious and agreed upon that it barely warrants mentioning, but for completion's sake I may as well. I have little doubt about this lineup's ability to win a conflict, but to negotiate surrender or cooperation quickly is preferable to sacrificing the population in an extended war. Building alliances is a more efficient approach to consolidating resources under our influence than trying to conquer the world by force. In addition, he can also leverage some Intrigue to set up contingencies in foreign settlements if negotiations fail. The only real alternative to Sakamoto's coalition building I see is to use Michiel de Ruyter's traits to lay down trade agreements as a foundation for military alliances, but he has nowhere near Sakamoto's support, lacks his immunity to Chaos corruption granted from already being 'corrupted' by Oryou, and would require us to focus a chunk of our production capability on trade goods.

    Of this spread, all have secondary skillsets that allow them to fill in potential gaps left by the others failing to make the final cut, primary abilities allowing each to focus on what they do best when considered as a set, one general and our diplomat are effectively incorruptible by Chaos, and our domestic spy that can easily become another general will automatically purge the same in time.

    Given our apparent agreement on what roles to prioritize and who should occupy most of them, is there any chance I could convince you to flip your choice of guerilla to Sanada and consolidate support for a roster that fills the same roles?
     
    Look, I'm out at a friends tonight. I'm updating this tomorrow come hell or high water. If there is a tie I will be picking a hero out of the ether and replacing all the tied heroes. You have been warned.

    Agree on something or leave it to my capricious whims.
     
    Alright fine, I've been convinced. But I don't like it!

    [X] Mordred Pendragon
    -[X] Saber
    [X] Sakamoto Ryouma
    -[X] Lancer
    [X] Oda Nobunaga
    -[X] Avenger
    [X] Beowulf
    -[X] Berserker
    [X] Sanada Yukimura
    -[X] Lancer

    That said, I'm still very iffy on Nobunaga. Is there not someone else that is similar?
     
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