East Africa 1930: An ORBAT Quest

It may be too early to talk about our service rifle. Do we even know what our lands look like? Sweeping savannahs? Canyons and hills? Mountains and valleys?
Edit:
I'm bringing this up because difference environments favor different rifles. For example if the land forces closer range combat then a shorter and lighter carbine would serve us better then a full lenght rifle.
 
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It may be too early to talk about our service rifle. Do we even know what our lands look like? Sweeping savannahs? Canyons and hills? Mountains and valleys?
Edit:
I'm bringing this up because difference environments favor different rifles. For example if the land forces closer range combat then a shorter and lighter carbine would serve us better then a full lenght rifle.
This is not true, as is a pretty much agreed upon that 750-900 meters, more or less, is the maximum distance at wich a soldier can hit without telescopic sights. And this is if they receive special training.

The first statement is true, as we need to know to what kind of elemental hazards our weapons will be exposed.

However the reasoning in the edit is faulty as today's DMRs (that are considered carbines by 1930/50 standards) could reliably reach longer ranges, even without the techonological that weren't availabe in those times.
 
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Reewiin is remarkably diverse - there's long coastline, mountainous volcanic regions, rugged hills and sweeping valleys. Part of the country is tropical, shifting all the way into arid desert.
I understand: we'll need to go throught US Army Ordnance level of testing for our weapons. NEAT!

However, this is my last message for the day, local time 01:40 AM.
Is time for me to go to sleep. Bye! 😪 😪 😪
 
Hey all
Just wanted to say, the update is coming. It's a big one and we want to make sure it's tip-top before we post it.
Hopefully have it to you soon.
x
 
1-3 - Reewiin, As It Stands Today
The Kismayo Treaty
Presented to the then government of Reewiin in 1895 and agreed upon in 1896, the Kismayo Treaty is the reason the small state is what it is today. After the collapse of the Imperial British East Africa Company (leading to the Kenyan and Ugandan protectorates), the natural resources of Reewiin were under-exploited by larger powers. Japan, seeing an opportunity for access to–amongst other things–higher quality iron, stepped into the power vacuum.

The Treaty was more than a mere trade agreement. It guaranteed first rights of exploitation to Japan for major natural resources, including Iron, Zinc, Phosphates, and - in the unlikely event of discovery - Oil. It allowed free investment in the nation by Japanese businesses leading to the establishment of the Kaguya Steel smelting plant on the coast. It also promised Japanese support for Reewiin's military, providing advisors, equipment, and even training in the Japanese Home Islands for a select few officers.

The Kismayo Treaty is a source of much tension and anger in the Reewiin political establishment. While it has undoubtedly been useful, jump-starting heavy industry and mining in several sectors, it also leaves the nation beholden to its Pacific ally.

The Government of Reewiin
The new government of Reewiin is a three-arm structure with a President as the Executive, a House of Representatives as the Legislature, and the multi-layered and complex Court system as the Judiciary.

The President is a seat selected by the largest party in the House or, in the current case, by the largest coalition of representative parties. Currently, this is the Patriotic Social Democrats, a coalition of four smaller parties with a generally progressive, inclusive vision for the future of Reewiin.

The House is comprised of 60 seats, each filled by a democratically elected representative from a tribal, district, or constituency zone, depending on where in Reewiin they are from. This has led to difficulties in melding the various understandings of governance and rule, particularly among some Coastal Somali representatives who feel they are ceding power to the rural interior. The current House makeup is as follows:

Reewiin House of Representatives 1930
  • Patriotic Social Democrats - 29 seats
    • 12 members of the Patriotic Democrats (Bur Gaabo)
    • 11 members of the PSD Party (Kismayo)
    • 4 members of the Patriot Workers Party
    • 2 members of the Social Democratic Patriot Party
  • Monarchist Revivalists - 19 seats
    • 14 members of the Gelebi Revivalist Group
    • 5 members of the Imperial African Party
  • Nationalist Isolationists - 2 seats
    • 1 member of the Reewiin First Party
    • 1 member of the Gelebi Return party
  • Tribal Leaders - 10 reserved seats
    • 3 members from Southern Reewiin
    • 3 members from North-Western Reewiin
    • 2 members from North-Eastern Reewiin
    • 1 member from the Oromo
    • 1 member from the Bantu (Somali member for Bantu)

Meanwhile, the Judiciary operates at multiple levels, tasked with navigating Reewiin's various competing and complex sets of laws while enforcing legislation from the House and the President.

Ethnic division, geography, and tension
Reewin is a melting pot of a wide variety of African ethnic, tribal, and cultural groups, though primarily these fall into three main groups - the Somali, the Oromo, and the Bantu.

The Somali people of Reewiin are primarily clustered along the coast and in major cities. Historically, they have been the rulers and nobility of several small nations and empires along the coast of East Africa, including the Sultanate of Geledi, which bordered and controlled part of modern-day Reewiin. All ethnically Somali people in Reewiin are afforded citizenship and the right to vote and run for local and state office. They are also free to volunteer as a member of the Army and the Carabinieri.

The Oromo, primarily found in the North-Western region of Reewiin, are an East African ethnic group like the Somalis, who in previous generations were prized as captives, slaves, bureaucrats, and wives. Considered separate but equal to Somali people, many found great personal freedom in the Somali-ruled regions. Any ethnically Oromo person can apply for citizenship, and is afforded the right to vote and run for election to local or tribal office. They are free to volunteer for service in the Army and the Carabinieri and are not segregated while in service.

The Bantu are an ethnically diverse group taken from across Central and South-Eastern Africa. In Reewiin, they are primarily settled in the south. Originally entirely made up of slaves and captives, the Bantu peoples in Reewiin have taken up a position as free but fundamentally unequal populations in the nation. Bantu people cannot apply for citizenship without long Military or Civil service, cannot vote unless they are a citizen, and cannot run for election at any level above tribal office. They are free to volunteer for service in the Army, but are organised into separate platoons led by Somali officers. They are also free to serve in the Carabinieri.

Tensions between the powerful, wealthy Somali populations and Oromo - and especially the oppressed Bantu groups - are not helped by their geographic semi-segregation. Equally, while the Army is almost entirely Somali, the Carabinieri in the South is heavily populated by Bantu people, and this is sometimes a cause for intra-national strife.


The Reewiin Army
The Army is primarily tasked with defence of the state and providing policing inside the capital, Kismayo, and other coastal towns. It is split into three regiments, though only two are rounded fighting units.

To the outside observer, the 1st (Reewiin) is a ceremonial guard formation that favour fashionable uniforms and neat drills over effective training. They maintain the largest single collection of artillery in the Army (twelve old 75 mm guns) and the Bur Gaabo Spahi, a parade-perfect cavalry unit.

Meanwhile, the 2nd (Kismayo) and 3rd (Bur Gaabo) are the true fighting power of the Army. With five infantry battalions between them, each with organic machine-gun and light artillery formations, they number over five-thousand men. The 2nd also maintains the Army Training battalion, responsible for the effectiveness of the Army as a whole, but few recruits outside of the 2nd ever see it.

The army is comprised of volunteers, with a minimum service term of four years. Many choose to stay for twelve to access the small state pension available to long-service soldiers, and a select few serve the maximum of twenty-four years. Officers, barring a small number who are offered training in Japan, are taught their craft in Kismayo and serve for a minimum of eight years (twelve for those who train overseas). Some of the Army's officers, especially senior artillerymen, are attached from the IJA as Reewiin lacks an established school for teaching the discipline.

Armament is consistent but old. Most of it comes from Japan, with the Type 30 rifle chambered in 6.5x50mm Arisaka as the standard service rifle. Machine guns are split between the Italian Fiat-Revelli 1914 and the Japanese Type 3, while the artillery consists of 70mm Type 92 battalion guns and Krupp M.06 75mm mountain guns. Most of these guns, as well as ammunition for the machine guns, are towed by Sanga cattle, though the 1st have horses for their guns, and other units rely entirely on porters.

In theory, it is the Army's responsibility to man border forts at key crossing points, but in recent years this responsibility has been handed off to the Provincial Carabinieri.

The Reewiin Army (~6300 men, 200 horses)
  • 1st (Reewiin) Regiment (~1150 men)
    • Regimental HQ & Signals, including baggage and medical (~300 men)
    • 3 x Infantry Company (~200 men and 2 HMG's each)
    • 1 x Cavalry Company (~100 men and 150 horses)
    • 1 x Artillery Detachment (12 guns, ~150 men and 50 horses)
  • 2nd (Kismayo) Regiment (~3200 men)
    • Regimental HQ (~150 men)
    • Signals Company (~100 men)
    • 3 x Infantry Battalion (~900 men, 6 HMG's and 2 guns each)
    • Training Battalion (~250 men and 2 HMG's)
  • 3rd (Bur Gaabo) Regiment (~1950 men)
    • Regimental HQ (~100 men)
    • Signals Company (~50 men)
    • 2 x Infantry Battalion (~900 men, 6 HMG's and 2 guns each)

Equipment:
  • 4000 Type 30 Arisaka rifles, 6.5×50 mm Arisaka
  • 600 Moschetto Modello 1891 carbines, 6.5×52 mm Carcano
  • 32 Fiat-Revelli 1914 HMGs, 6.5×52 mm Carcano
  • 6 Type 3 HMGs, 6.5×50 mm Arisaka
  • 12 Krupp 75 mm horse drawn guns
  • 10 Type 92 70 mm pack howitzers

The Provincial Carabinieri
The Provincial Carabinieri is responsible for maintaining law and order outside the major coastal population centres. The Provincial Carabinieri is divided into regional brigades covering the North, North-West, and South. Each brigade is typically divided into five to six companies, led by an officer, and typically seconded to a regional civilian administrator.

Owing to cost and local circumstances, companies tend to vary wildly in size, from just over two hundred to over nine hundred. As payroll is not handled centrally, exact numbers are unavailable. Carbineers are volunteers and typically serve for 2-6 years, and the local civilian administrator handles pay.

Armament is eclectic, but most weapons are Remington rolling block rifles. An exception can be found in the Northern Brigade, whose companies are typically armed with Japanese Type 13 Murata rifles. A handful of machine guns can be found in special brigade-level companies co-located with training units.

Aside from a small number of horses used for patrolling and about a dozen boats the North-Western Brigade operates on Lake Turkana, the Provincial Carabinieri travels everywhere by foot. When operating at a larger scale than sub-company manoeuvres in villages, each soldier requires about 1.5 porters on average to carry company and brigade supplies.
When seconded to local administration, the Carabinieri acts as local police, strikebreakers, and security for ranches, in addition to their paramilitary roles of border guard and national defence.

The Provincial Carabinieri (~11,000 men)
  • Northern Brigade (~5000 men)
    • Training & Machine Gun Company (~250 men, ~6 Perino 1908 HMGs, ~6 Vickers HMGs)
    • 5x Carabinieri Company (~950 men each)
  • North-Western Brigade (~3500 men)
    • Training & Machine Gun Company (~250 men, ~6 Perino 1908 HMGs)
    • 4x Carabinieri Company (~650 men each)
    • 1x Carabinieri Company (~12 boats, ~650 men)
  • Southern Brigade (~2500 men)
    • Training & Machine Gun Company (~250 men, ~4 Maxim HMGs)
    • 4x Carabinieri Company (~550 men)

Equipment (estimated)
  • 6000+ Remington Rolling Block rifles, .43 Egyptian
  • 2500+ Murata Type 13 rifles, 11×60 mm Murata
  • 1000+ Lee-Metford rifles, .303 British
  • 500+ Vetterli-Vitali Mod. 1870/87, 10.35×47 mm
  • 1000+ other firearms
  • 12 Perino 1908 HMGs, 6.5×52 mm Carcano
  • 6 Vickers HMGs, .303 British
  • 4 Maxim HMGs, 7.92×57 mm Mauser

A Precarious System
Reewiin is in a state of political and institutional flux, and the military arms reflect that. Underequipped, poorly organised, and with a confused approach to doctrine, they are sorely in need of reconfiguring. However, the Defence Council is not free to act - the Government and the General staff all have their own desires for this new era.

The President and his (majority share) party would like to see the Carabinieri reformed into proper second-line troops rather than a semi-regular police force.

The main opposition, the Japanese-backed Monarchists, wish for the 1st Reewiin Regiment's reformation into a Royal Guard regiment. They are unclear as to what precisely this entails, but they are very insistent on it.

Others call for the unification of the Army and the Gendarmes, reforming the three regiments into smaller regional forces, or even combining them into a single deployable brigade.

Meanwhile, the general staff is concerned with issues of logistics, doctrine, training, and equipment. The Army's guns are old, and the Carabinieri are even older. Only one insufficient training company exists, and no staff or artillery college exists. The Army fights with mixed cartridge types of similar sizes which can lead to logistical errors and weapon malfunctions. In summary, there is insufficient logistical support for the Army, which the general staff insists must change immediately.


This is the current situation you face. Your job is to think about how to go forward: discuss what should be done and formulate Write-In Plan Votes describing the long-term objectives you recommend to the Ministry of Defence. You can ask questions, and will receive those answers that would be reasonably known to the council.

While you almost certainly want to make many changes, you are constrained by unpredictable budgets and practical realities. Therefore, each Plan Vote should focus on up to five major undertakings for inclusion in the next Defence Act or recommendation to the general staff:


What does the council recommend to the government and military high command? Please create a plan including at most 5 of the following options, those you consider the highest priority:
[ ] Choose a single cartridge for the military
[ ] Modernise the machine gun units.
[ ] Modernise the artillery units.
[ ] Reform the Army
[ ] Reform the Carabinieri
[ ] Unify the Army and the Carabinieri
[ ] Disband the Carabinieri
[ ] Establish a Bersaglieri group
[ ] Establish a Remount Service to supply horses to the Army
[ ] Establish a Waystation Service to improve communications
[ ] Establish an Air Force
[ ] Establish a Naval Service
[ ] Reform the 1st Reewiin into the Royal Guard
[ ] Find a way to improve Logistics through Horses
[ ] Motorise Logistics
[ ] Establish an infantry training school
[ ] Establish an officer training school
[ ] Establish an artillery school
[ ] Establish a Military Information and Analysis Office
[ ] Establish a Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office
[ ] Write-in


Once again, this vote will determine your broad, long-term objectives. The process of implementing these objectives–also your responsibility–will be covered across turns that cover a number of weeks or months of in-story time dependant on the exact circumstances involved. We will always be clear about how long the next turn will last. While you are welcome–and in fact encouraged–to detail your plan beyond these options, the implementation of those details will still be voted on in later turns. Inclusion is not guaranteed, and this should be expected.

For example, suppose as part of choosing to focus on standardising a single cartridge for the military, you drag out the NATO symbols and create a full TO&E for Reewiin's new model rifle battalion. In that case, the QMs will almost certainly be willing to include the plan as the Defence Council's proposal for battalion reform, alongside other options presented by other parties during the relevant turn vote. If nothing else, it means far less work for us!
 
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Okay, I think one priority absolutely has to be unified cartridges. There's a lot we are not going to be able to fix in time but being able to at least not worry about which bullets need to go where and if we sent the right spare parts to that spot as well is going to be a great relief. It also means we can focus on a small number of ammunition production facilities rather than needing a bunch that each only cover a fraction of our armed forces.

Other than that... I think I want that Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office just due to how that's going to help us have more awareness of everything. We don't have oil discovered so far it seems, so we absolutely should not choose Motorise Logistics. Sure, that's going to be a great benefit but... The world doesn't quite have the developed motor industry, oil supply and motor reliability for us to benefit enough from that to make the extreme expense worth it at this point. Which makes me think that we're going to want to pick the Remount Service and Horse Logistics options, thus taking 'my picks' to four out of five.

Leaving one to please our political masters with which... I'm not sure what to pick there.

As for what unified cartridge we can pick... I don't actually know enough about what was historically available at this time, along with what is soon going to become available to choose. I'd want to pick something that historically is going to be a 'proven winner' through WW2, which directly clashes with my second desire of if at all possible also picking something that would keep our Japanese 'friends' happy. Because I'm pretty sure Japanese small arms were kind of... awful in WW2?
 
[X] Plan: Logistical Services
-[X] Choose a single cartridge for the military
--[X] .30-06 Springfield
-[X] Reform the Army
-[X] Establish a Waystation Service to improve communications
-[X] Motorise Logistics
-[X] Establish an Air Force

Here's what I'm thinking, the current cartridge that the army is using is good enough for now that we don't really need to change it until after the turn of the century when we can shift to developing something like the 7.7x58mm Arisaka. Reforming the Army is a must, getting proper organization in early is the first step to making a functional military. Waystations to improve communications is also pretty good considering we may not have all the carrier pigeons we want, which goes well with motorize logistics to get past a reliance on horses. Finally I was torn on establishing an Airforce or a Navy, my thought process goes that we're stuck in a British dominated sea and any squadron they put to task will be a death sentence, but if we invest in an Airforce now we might be able to match them for skill if not for numbers when the time comes.

Edit: In light of being in 1930 I'm going to say fuck it and take the .30-06 Springfield as a cartridge.
 
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The latest version of my plan after much debate in the next part of the thread:

[X]Plan: Lay The Foundation and Get Our Priorities Straight 3.1
-[X] Establish an officer training school with an ROTC program detached to the others few schools in the country
-[X] Establish an artillery school with technical tertiary school specializations (is better to call it an Ordnance school)
-[X] Establish a Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office
-[X] Reform the Carabinieri
-[X] Create a domestic, nationalized arms manufacturing industry

Rationale:
  • We need to put the basis for our military cadre to implement more reforms, it doesn't matter if we have the best equipment and services if our officers and soldiers don't know how to use them best. This will also ease and streamline our modernization process as we have a more military and technologically savvy officer cadre to carry out our reforms. This will save us the issue of removing incompetent officers later when they entrenched themselves in the army bureaucracy, which will take us more time than if we do it now.
  • A broader Artillery & Ordnance school will do similar things, but also expand the ability of the procurement and R&D service of designing and creating new tools. This will help us by handling the testing of our ideas, thus preventing the most costly mistakes. While also having useful employment in the civilian field, mainly infrastructural projects, thus giving us more political support.
  • The annexed schools will also raise literacy and reasoning capabilities among our ranks, increase the capacity of taking the initiative and maintain it. Plus, the morale of the ranks will increase and more people will join the armed forces as they will be able to exit the military with a comprehensive education that will help them in life after the service.
  • We need an espionage service to get a grasp on other military latest developments and at least some information on the units stationed around us.
  • Reforming the carabinieri will get us political support from the President and the Majority.
  • We also need a nationalized arms industry that will help us starting to modernize and will wean us from being reliant on foreign imports.
 
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Remount service and horse logistics are absolutely essential IMO. We're using cattle to tow guns and porters to carry supplies - that's gotta change. I doubt we can afford to skip straight to motorized logistics.

As for appeasing our political bosses, I'd recommend Carabinieri reform. Sure, the army itself needs reform, but the Carabinieri are in an even messier state, they're the bulk of our armed forces, and it's on the President's mind.

So yeah, I'd be on board with something like
[] Choose a single cartridge for the military
[ ] Establish a Remount Service to supply horses to the Army
[] Find a way to improve logistics through horses
[ ] Establish a Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office
[ ] Reform the Carabinieri
 
until after the turn of the century when we can shift to developing something like the 7.7x58mm Arisaka
It's 1930, you're pretty well past the turn of the century. 7.7x58mm Arisaka doesn't exist yet, 7.7x58mmSR looks like it's going to be the new Japanese machine gun cartridge. Obviously, selecting a 'normal' rifle calibre cartridge would be possible, it's not like there aren't enough around.
 
Remount service and horse logistics are absolutely essential IMO. We're using cattle to tow guns and porters to carry supplies - that's gotta change. I doubt we can afford to skip straight to motorized logistics.

As for appeasing our political bosses, I'd recommend Carabinieri reform. Sure, the army itself needs reform, but the Carabinieri are in an even messier state, they're the bulk of our armed forces, and it's on the President's mind.

So yeah, I'd be on board with something like
[] Choose a single cartridge for the military
[ ] Establish a Remount Service to supply horses to the Army
[] Find a way to improve logistics through horses
[ ] Establish a Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office
[ ] Reform the Carabinieri

We need a proper soldier, NCO, and officer cadre before any of those things.
And, when we have one, making reforms will become easier and more streamlined. Plus, this will set our priorities: we still can do those things in the meantime.

It's 1930, you're pretty well past the turn of the century. 7.7x58mm Arisaka doesn't exist yet, 7.7x58mmSR looks like it's going to be the new Japanese machine gun cartridge. Obviously, selecting a 'normal' rifle calibre cartridge would be possible, it's not like there aren't enough around.

I think that the Carcano is the best option, and will be a viable Universal cartridge.
 
@4WheelSword , what are the literacy rates in the country?

Moreover, what is the difference between these?

[ ] Establish a Military Information and Analysis Office
[ ] Establish a Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office
 
@4WheelSword , what are the literacy rates in the country?
Around 35-40% depending on who exactly you're talking about. Rates are highest amongst Somali and foreign national groups and lowest amongst the Bantu and in some cases the Oromo. Most education is in Arabic and Somali, though Somali is taught somewhat like a second language (we haven't touched on religion yet, but Reewiin is a heavily Muslim state) but Japanese and English are also spoken widely.

[ ] Establish a Military Information and Analysis Office
[ ] Establish a Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office
One is controlled by the military and one is controlled by your Defence Council.
 
Around 35-40% depending on who exactly you're talking about. Rates are highest amongst Somali and foreign national groups and lowest amongst the Bantu and in some cases the Oromo. Most education is in Arabic and Somali, though Somali is taught somewhat like a second language (we haven't touched on religion yet, but Reewiin is a heavily Muslim state) but Japanese and English are also spoken widely.


One is controlled by the military and one is controlled by your Defence Council.
Thanks!
 
I think Natruska's proto plan is on the money. We have limited resources and credibility; better to choose some limited objectives we can achieve and get to a better baseline before we try knocking out huge expensive (and socially complex) things like a giant system of military schools.

Reforming the Carabinieri is the best available political mandate and it will eat a bunch of political capital and time anyway.

[X] Plan: Foundations for Maneuver
-[X] Choose a single cartridge for the military
-[X] Establish a Remount Service to supply horses to the Army
-[X] Find a way to improve logistics through horses
-[X] Establish a Council-controlled Information and Analysis Office
-[X] Reform the Carabinieri
 
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So, this is based on a (poor) understanding of the geography, but I think focusing on the Carabinieri first is smart.

First of all, they'll likely be a very critical link in our defence, seeing as they're the primary armed forces in the significant rural areas and also manage our border fortifications. The country is a very narrow wedge between the southern Somali coast and Lake Turkana and our valuable mining industry is on the opposite side of a desert, so I'm skeptical of the army in the capital being able to defend it. The Carabinieri are also a two-part win for the political side of things - the ruling party wants them to be strengthened, and they're by far the weakest link in our logistics. Start training up proper officers out of the Carabinieri, conduct reforms focusing on asymmetric warfare and making use of pre-established strong points to sap an enemy offensive of momentum so our proper army can meet it, and modernize their weapons so that we don't have as convoluted of a logi chain. Eventually, we can turn it into a cross between a US-style National Guard and an organized guerilla force.

Also, going back to the opening post, since we're independent we'll have to design more equipment domestically. Since it's better to get started on it sooner, maybe one of our five choices should be starting to develop local military industry? Lay the groundwork for an armaments factory to take advantage of our domestic heavy industry, and eventually get a modern pack howitzer that we can produce ourselves?
 
So, this is based on a (poor) understanding of the geography, but I think focusing on the Carabinieri first is smart.

First of all, they'll likely be a very critical link in our defence, seeing as they're the primary armed forces in the significant rural areas and also manage our border fortifications. The country is a very narrow wedge between the southern Somali coast and Lake Turkana and our valuable mining industry is on the opposite side of a desert, so I'm skeptical of the army in the capital being able to defend it. The Carabinieri are also a two-part win for the political side of things - the ruling party wants them to be strengthened, and they're by far the weakest link in our logistics. Start training up proper officers out of the Carabinieri, conduct reforms focusing on asymmetric warfare and making use of pre-established strong points to sap an enemy offensive of momentum so our proper army can meet it, and modernize their weapons so that we don't have as convoluted of a logi chain. Eventually, we can turn it into a cross between a US-style National Guard and an organized guerilla force.

Also, going back to the opening post, since we're independent we'll have to design more equipment domestically. Since it's better to get started on it sooner, maybe one of our five choices should be starting to develop local military industry? Lay the groundwork for an armaments factory to take advantage of our domestic heavy industry, and eventually get a modern pack howitzer that we can produce ourselves?

Focus on the carabinieri is a thing that will have an impact only on the low strategic level.

Moreover, the carabinieri (at least here in Italy) are not best for being a thing like the National Guard: they are best at maintaining public order and helping the citizen in less urbanized areas. If you want to create a national guard, create it: but the carabinieri have their niche, and removing them from it will hurt their role, putting them in one they are not suited to accomplish.

Focusing on the military personnel cadre will have a positive impact on the tactical, operational, and strategic at all levels.

We can do all the things you suggest but is important to lay the foundations first.

Even I am eager to develop domestic equipment.
 
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Nice training isn't useful if you can't bring forces to the battle in the first place. The Carabinieri are the only force that operates in the interior or at most of our borders, and serious transport/logistics improvements are necessary if we want them to be able to maneuver or the army to ever join them away from the coast.

I think you are mistaking a nice ground floor for the actual foundations.
 
Focus on the carabinieri is a thing that will have an impact only on the low strategic level.

Focusing on the military personnel cadre will have a positive impact on the tactical, operational, and strategic at all levels.

We can do all the things you suggest but is important to lay the foundations firs.

It'll have a focus on all levels. We're never going to be able to field a large enough, or skilled enough military that we can match the British Army and Royal Navy in a direct engagement until they're laying siege to our cities. Right now, the Carabinieri are cops with guns; if we can turn them into proper, organized partisans, then they can provide meaningful strength in the countryside.

I agree we need to invest in training, but if we don't reform the Carabinieri first, there's a good chance that those new training schools will be "military only" and the troops that do most of our work won't get any of the benefit.
 
Here's something i'd like to do i would like to give all gun's in 6.5x52mm Carcano to the Carabinieri and keep all the gun's in 6.5X50mm Arisaka with the Army.
 
Nice training isn't useful if you can't bring forces to the battle in the first place. The Carabinieri are the only force that operates in the interior or at most of our borders, and serious transport/logistics improvements are necessary if we want them to be able to maneuver or the army to ever join them away from the coast.

I think you are mistaking a nice ground floor for the actual foundations.

are you referring to my post?

It'll have a focus on all levels. We're never going to be able to field a large enough, or skilled enough military that we can match the British Army and Royal Navy in a direct engagement until they're laying siege to our cities. Right now, the Carabinieri are cops with guns; if we can turn them into proper, organized partisans, then they can provide meaningful strength in the countryside.

I agree we need to invest in training, but if we don't reform the Carabinieri first, there's a good chance that those new training schools will be "military only" and the troops that do most of our work won't get any of the benefit.
You are right about the fact that we will never be able to match the British.

But if we don't build new training schools, any of our efforts will be doomed to be done in a halfway manner. The carabinieri ARE part of the armed forces AND WILL GET the benefit.

We can conduct a reform after we have the men to get it done right.

Moreover, with their role of helping the local community, the Carabinieri have a natural effect of linking a community with the near ones: from this a proper partisan movement can rise (plus, any partisan movement built before an invasion is especially vulnerable to enemy espionage efforts).
 
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Here's something i'd like to do i would like to give all gun's in 6.5x52mm Carcano to the Carabinieri and keep all the gun's in 6.5X50mm Arisaka with the Army.
We have 644 guns in 6.5x52 mm Carcano total. We might as well just switch entirely to 6.5 mm Arisaka and use the 6.5 mm Carcano guns for training purposes or fortification garrisons, especially because of how terrible the guns that use the Carcano are. Shuffling the logistics around like that is just gonna be messy.
But if we don't build new training schools, any of our efforts will be doomed to be done in a halfway manner. The carabinieri ARE part of the armed forces AND WILL GET the benefit.
You assume it will get it. It very likely will not, especially given the separation between the army (who will be running the schools) and the carabinieri and the significant ethnic tensions in our country.

War is also several years away; we can afford to delay having schools for everything this turn.
 
We have 644 guns in 6.5x52 mm Carcano total. We might as well just switch entirely to 6.5 mm Arisaka and use the 6.5 mm Carcano guns for training purposes or fortification garrisons, especially because of how terrible the guns that use the Carcano are. Shuffling the logistics around like that is just gonna be messy.

The 6.5 Arisaka is a poor long-term solution. Plus, the only poor guns chambered in the Carcano ammunition are the Fiat-Revelli. The Carcano rifles are reliable and good guns (see Forgotten Weapons & C&Rsenal videos about it if you don't believe me) and the Perino is a very good MG (see vbbsmyth videos on it), I don't know why only the Carabinieri got their hand on them.

The Japanese rifles we have are not the good ones (the Nambu-Arisaka Type 38) but the bad ones (Arisaka Type 30 and Murata rifles)

You assume it will get it. It very likely will not, especially given the separation between the army (who will be running the schools) and the carabinieri and the significant ethnic tensions in our country.

War is also several years away; we can afford to delay having schools for everything this turn.

You are right, but I want that our reform to be carried out in the best and fastest way possible: the schools are a prerequisite.

P.S.: @4WheelSword , how much the turn will take in in-quest-time?
 
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