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GODSTAR - a Science Fantasy Civilization Quest

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Turn 9 Diplomacy Actions
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    • There is a great upswelling of support for unification that it is almost trivial. A mass propaganda campaign convinces the people and councils outside the League that unification is not just desirable, but necessary in order to prevent Islander meddling. Pro-Islander councilmen are thrown out in elections, and in one case literally, as the case of the People of the Upper Stoney River drag their councilors from the assembly field and elect new, pro-unification ones.

    A great meeting is held, the first of its kind since the fall of the old Great League. An assembly and council of all tribes, held in Whiteclay. From the north comes the League of the North, a coalition of reindeer herders, seal hunters, and farmers of fruit trenches. From the south come the Swamping Folk, the managers of vast artificial wetlands from which they harvest fish, waterfowl, and edible marsh plants. From the west come the coastal tribes, fishermen, shellfish farmers, ocean traders. They all declare their intent to join the League, and the negotiations go on for weeks as various benefits and concessions are haggled over, but it seems likely the dream will be realized, and the True People will be once again united under a single Great League.

    However, in the third week of the Great Meeting, a delegation from the Islander Folk arrives in Whiteclay. They represent the Foreign Policy Committee of the House of Stakeholders, the chief legislative body of the Islander Folks' overarching government. The delegation points out that they have extensive agreements with some of the tribes who are seeking admittance to the League, and they demand these agreements be recognized in some form.

    The demand of course is controversial, and there are riots and calls for war, but the High Council and the Great Meeting at least agree to hear them out.

    The Islander Folk note that they have extensive economic interests, and demand these be recognized. In practice, this would mean heavy economic concessions to the Islander Folk, especially the great "Trade Families", which operate as companies. These companies would dominate commerce and have influence over economic production, including a say in how the local councils interact with organized labor. This would also in effect create more internal trade barriers, something the merchant class is opposed to. The Islander Folk also want to allow their corporations and banks freedom to operate across the League, something your economists feel would give them an unfair advantage given the newness of your currency.

    From their perspective, this is rather reasonable. It allows for unification of the League while still respecting their own interests. And yet, when word of the demands leaks out, popular opinion is heavily against it, viewing it as the Islander Folk holding their league-fellows for ransom, a way to extort them before they can be permitted to join the League of their own free will. A member of the High Council challenges the Islander Folk delegation as to what their response would be if the demand was rejected.

    At this, the Islander Folk delegates change their demeanor. If the League insists on forcing the Islander Folk out of their sphere of influence – an act, they note, which involved political tampering and manipulation – they would be forced to take up arms to defend their interests, which is their right as part of their pursuit of prosperity and the common wealth.

    The gauntlet is thrown down. Do the True People pick it up?

    [] Accept. The Islander Folk will be given economic concessions.
    [] Reject. The Islander Folk will issue a declaration of war.

    Vote opens in 24 hours.
     
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    • No room for compromise or buying out the contracts, huh? And they're making additional demands regarding giving their financial institutions access on top of existing contracts?

    Well, in that case, I say war. Ultimatums like 'remain economically subservient to us or we attack you' with no room for negotiation deserve nothing less.

    [X] Reject. The Islander Folk will issue a declaration of war.
     
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    Etranger said:
    We'll be in Berlin Island by Christmas.
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    Honestly, we don't need to.

    This a defensive war over economic interests. They need to enforce their goals upon us, we can just sit back on the coast and watch the economic interests collapse on their own.
    After all, their declaration of war will collapse the majority of their trade network, because they just declared war on all their trading partners/the places their traders stop on their way to other people.

    Only their intercontinental trade will be unaffected, but you cant switch coastal vessels to intercontinental trade.
     
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    Their terms are entirely unacceptable.
    I feel very anxious because we didn't take Officer Academy, but we'll just have to make do with what we have.

    [X] Reject. The Islander Folk will issue a declaration of war.
     
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    maelstrom.seeker said:
    Their terms are entirely unacceptable.
    I feel very anxious because we didn't take Officer Academy, but we'll just have to make do with what we have.

    [ ] Reject. The Islander Folk will issue a declaration of war.
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    Same but accepting virtually guarantees we will become an economic puppet state so we gotta fight with what we have.
     
    10ebbor10 said:
    Honestly, we don't need to.

    This a defensive war over economic interests. They need to enforce their goals upon us, we can just sit back on the coast and watch the economic interests collapse on their own.
    After all, their declaration of war will collapse the majority of their trade network, because they just declared war on all their trading partners/the places their traders stop on their way to other people.
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    I am then concerned about the Native population of the other continent. If they cannot exploit the league, then they must exploit— more heavily— their colonial holdings where resistance is unlikely or at least less unified.
     
    JustGazzer said:
    I am then concerned about the Native population of the other continent. If they cannot exploit the league, then they must exploit— more heavily— their colonial holdings where resistance is unlikely or at least less unified.
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    That isn't our problem. Or we should not throw ourselves upon the altar to ensure that someone else's oppression is less awful.

    That of course doesn't prevent us from going to stop it at a later date.

    The oppression of the colonial vassals is the choice of the island folk. Not ours, and should have no bearing on our decision.
     
    Fruit trenches are so cool and I wish we'd see them featured in more works.

    I lean heavily towards rejecting their terms, and if they want to exploit others, that's not our fault and it's just more invcentive to nock the Islanders down a peg.
     
    So, my position here is that war is preferable to ultimatums but a good negotiated settlement is preferable to either. It looks like they are probably not super interested in a negotiated settlement? I'm open to people trying to figure out a Really Good Write-In counteroffer to try to avoid war, but if we don't figure one out or they won't take it, I have no interest in humoring their gunboat diplomacy.
     
    Potato Anarchy said:
    So, my position here is that war is preferable to ultimatums but a good negotiated settlement is preferable to either. It looks like they are probably not super interested in a negotiated settlement? I'm open to people trying to figure out a Really Good Write-In counteroffer to try to avoid war, but if we don't figure one out or they won't take it, I have no interest in humoring their gunboat diplomacy.
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    If someone can craft a write-in I think the Islander Folk would accept, I'll enter it into the vote.
     
    ScottishMongol said:
    If someone can craft a write-in I think the Islander Folk would accept, I'll enter it into the vote.
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    Anyway, here's a write-in for people who want neither war nor are willing to accept all concessions.

    [] Send our own trade mission to Island People, to talk with those Great Families who were not invested in the treaty ports of the true people and their economic network. They stand to gain in status and position when the other great families lose out, and so might be willing to aid.
    -[] Offer contracts and deals negotiated using the True People style agreements, which, while less lucrative, tend to be far less mercenary and far slower to switch to other suppliers. If they take these long term agreements, they can be assured of certain supply for years to come without competition, securing the additional income that the other families are losing. This should give them the pollical and economic clout to prevent the other families from starting a war.
     
    For my part, I'm against any further diplomatic efforts with the Islanders, even a Really Good Write-In. They went straight from a demand where they conceded nothing to a threat of open warfare. At this point, continued attempts to negotiate would both look like and actually be weakness. They need to be taught that we aren't just some fractious coastal tribe with whom they can have it all their own way. That means war.
     
    Hmm, I don't want to be too optimistic, but it does seem like we have the advantage in this conflict.

    I worry about how this will screw up our action economy vis a vis mounting a rescue operation to Watchtower and further cultural exchange with the Machine Army.
     
    10ebbor10 said:
    Anyway, here's a write-in for people who want neither war nor are willing to accept all concessions.

    [] Send our own trade mission to Island People, to talk with those Great Families who were not invested in the treaty ports of the true people and their economic network. They stand to gain in status and position when the other great families lose out, and so might be willing to aid.
    -[] Offer contracts and deals negotiated using the True People style agreements, which, while less lucrative, tend to be far less mercenary and far slower to switch to other suppliers. If they take these long term agreements, they can be assured of certain supply for years to come without competition, securing the additional income that the other families are losing. This should give them the pollical and economic clout to prevent the other families from starting a war.
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    Sending an extended diplomatic mission to the Islander Folk to seek out internal divides, while a good strategy, would take time you don't have.

    Renegotiating contracts and offering monetary concessions would possibly work.
     
    ScottishMongol said:
    Sending an extended diplomatic mission to the Islander Folk to seek out internal divides, while a good strategy, would take time you don't have.

    Renegotiating contracts and offering monetary concessions would possibly work.
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    Would the accept a buyout of existing contracts and actual fair ones for any interactions going forward? I'd be down for something like that, potentially.
     
    Etranger said:
    For my part, I'm against any further diplomatic efforts with the Islanders, even a Really Good Write-In. They went straight from a demand where they conceded nothing to a threat of open warfare. At this point, continued attempts to negotiate would both look like and actually be weakness. They need to be taught that we aren't just some fractious coastal tribe with whom they can have it all their own way. That means war.
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    This and any kind of market access means they will fuck us hard. You don't get "good deals" with the predatory financial imperialists.

    When the British/Dutch/American envoys come knocking you just know there is not going to be a good offer.

    Our new fledgling currency system also isn't ready for the Wolf of Wall Street with divination magic.
     
    after working on a couple variations of what amounts to fancier financialized versions of buying them out with lump sums and compromising on market access, I couldn't come up with anything that got around the fundamental problem of "they aren't respecting our sovereignty" and "they're being dicks," just fiddled with the costs. Past a certain point paying them vast sums is just protection money and I'm not for it. I'm leaning back towards Okay Fuck You.
     
    CyberEnby said:
    I worry about how this will screw up our action economy vis a vis mounting a rescue operation to Watchtower and further cultural exchange with the Machine Army.
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    The MA will probably be following the events of the war with great interest.

    Potato Anarchy said:
    after working on a couple variations of what amounts to fancier financialized versions of buying them out with lump sums and compromising on market access, I couldn't come up with anything that got around the fundamental problem of "they aren't respecting our sovereignty" and "they're being dicks," just fiddled with the costs. Past a certain point paying them vast sums is just protection money and I'm not for it. I'm leaning back towards Okay Fuck You.
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    Yeah, that's the problem. They're clearly complacent and feeling entitled. We need to break that delusion.
     
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