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Breaker of Chains (30k Angron Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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"Why do this? Have I not been a generous patron, a reliable ally?"
Tchar can't, even in this moment, really view itself and Angron as equals in an alliance -- even when bound and about to be murdered, verbally puts itself in a position above Angron. It's folly to treat such a thing as an ally, because it will never think of itself as one.
 
Rachel_wulf said:
It goes free and renounces it's claims on us and our Legion, but it does not offer it's Deals to anyone else. It lets the Other Daemons know that the mortals are no longer mere Playthings for their amusement. And that the mercy it was shown is to be the last of it's sort. And if it does not accept the deal, kill it. Perhaps with a twinge of regret, but either way, it had a chance. A wonderful symbolic start to the story of a new god.
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Honestly, I'd be down for this.

Mainly because, if worded properly and basically saying it shouldn't even interact with any sapient species (It'll totally let facts slip in casual conversation to cause Chaos), then it's response would be probably a scream of outrage.
king208 said:
Regarding the issue of killing a bound prisoner, why not free tchar and them kill him? Challenge it first to a dual to the death free and unencumbered. Then free it and subsequently kill it.
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Because trust me, This thing is probably going to take the first opportunity to leg it.

Also Fighting a prisoner would arguably be even worse than just killing it. Feels more like what happened on Nuceria, by making a game out of it
Guessmyname said:
(pretty sure most of the time that fucker just 'plans' for everything and then claims credit afterward)
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Tzeentch is change. Ergo, plans that are never really solid or defined.

Which means you probably aren't that wrong tbh.
 
If you want to put conditions on freeing Tchar - extracting a promise from it first for example - or to make the killing a duel etc, then I will be accepting sub-votes appended to the main options.

I'll be ignoring any complete write-in options though. This is too important a vote to start playing around with precise wording and the golden mean.
 
Like @No7sHere said earlier in the thread:
No7sHere said:
Ynnead sort of demonstrates that this sort of plan could work, of course there's still a million ways this could go horribly wrong. What makes Lorgar's approach so appealling is that it provides an actually viable third path between the emperor and chaos.
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I think we should vote to kill Tchar, but not because of anything to do with him specifically. I just think using Lorgars chad "we make our own gods" plan might actually work to stop our hypothetical rebellion from being corrupted by chaos, so I'm going to vote for the option that furthers us down that path. And not the path that spurns the brother who took extreme risk to help us in our time of need.
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
Honestly, I'd be down for this.

Mainly because, if worded properly and basically saying it shouldn't even interact with any sapient species (It'll totally let facts slip in casual conversation to cause Chaos), then it's response would be probably a scream of outrage.
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A point of some concern with this is that if Daemons are formed of ideas, specifically the ideas of mortals, then telling them never to interact with the mortal world ever is probably equivalent to telling it to starve itself to death.

It's never going to accept that. It's going to try and cheat and force it's way out of it or just break it's word and claim we did so first. After all, the birb is always the smartest person in the room, obviously it could never be totally outwitted by mere mortals and mwahaha time for cunning revenge etc etc. This is its fundamental nature.
 
Man I can see how ambition and audacity can change even the shittiest primarch into something I can cheer for. Emperor Lite.

Even if essentially nothing has changed.
Hope that this rebirths Malal.

As for Tchar. Mmmm....having a greater daemon bound is appealing.

Bravo OP. This is an excellent quandary you have crafted for us.
 
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The3rdCorinthian said:
If T'char really is, in it's every interaction, honest and not duplicitous (even if he's definitely manipulative)...

Then this means something as well:

Since T'char is honest, that means it honestly thinks that instead of appealing to our desire to break chains, or that the emperor is the greater evil, or that in the upcoming war being Empowered by Chaos will better protect our little brothers

T'chars most desperate plea was that we should enslave it and become a High Rider in full.

Said in the voice of the people we love the most.
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This decisively made me on let kill the birb gang. He see us ultimately as someone who wants to be another high rider, someone who mad they weren't the high rider and cloak themselves in all this deception about who they are but ultimately this is what they want. Which fuck that shit if that who he see us as if that his desperate last plea to us. The one he thinks has the best chance of working
 
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Woltaire said:
This decisively made me on let kill the birb gang. He see us ultimately as someone who wants to be another high rider, someone who mad they weren't the high rider and cloak themselves in all this deception about who they are but ultimately this is what they want. Which fuck that shit if that who he see us as if that his desperate last plea to us the one he thinks has the best chance of working
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It is a fair point that regardless of what I feel bad about, that might make Angron furious enough to just kill Tchar where it stands.
 
I'm wary about whatever Lorgar has planned because, lets be honest, its Lorgar we're talking about. He's always been the dreamer of the 18, and now he's talking about god-building, actual literal god-building. But Lorgar is a better option than a greater Daemon, these things are malicious spite and hateful duplicity rolled into one concentrated being. I trust Tchar about as far as I can throw him and he isn't even real. He was truthful in the way only conniving asshats and lawyers are truthful, by sheer technicality, and killing it sends a clear message. We aren't the emperors dog, and we aren't the Highrider slave the four want, we're our own man and will fight for a genuinely better tomorrow. Kill Tchar and be done with his deals.
 
I don't think you can make a "deal" for it to never deal again; that is its purpose, we would be killing him as sure as any Moonlight Greatsword did. You could free him on the bargain that he never make deals with our people nor work against or with those who are against us, but even assuming he is naught but honest and good faith I don't know if he takes it.

The big question is if we're down with Lorgar's plan to step into the God sized hole in humanity. If we had taken the Champion route sure, but as a Leader we have a responsibility to think this through a bit more. This basically starts the Heresy now; all our future actions need to be about gaining allies and placing ourselves in a position to win while Chaos absolutely guns for us just as sure as the Emperor will. Hell, Chaos will probably try and drop Big E a line if they can nail down what happened.
 
Hey, crazy plan here but why not start a redemption arc with Tchar? Make him eventually betray his god for Angron? Because isn't it what Angron is, someone who defeats his ennemis and make allies with the resonnable ones. I'm curious what a Tzeechn demon becomes once cut of from Tzeechn.
Angron is charismatic.

Maybe a subvote like:
[ ]Free Tchar
-[ ]On the condition that this meeting stay secret and that he seriously consider joining Angron as ally in good fait

Is this possible?
 
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Maugan Ra said:
There is… something in his hands. A sword, you think, or a shard of moonlight hammered into that shape. It hurts to look upon, but you do not mind the pain. It is the burn of daylight after a life in darkness, the taste of free air after a life in chains.
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does anyone got any idea on what this sword is? my only guess is crownsword but yah that not right so does anyone have any other ideas?
 
[X] Slay Tchar
- [X] With Lorgar's permission, make it a killing duel
 
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Woltaire said:
does anyone got any idea on what this sword is? my only guess is crownsword but yah that not right so does anyone have any other ideas?
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I Think it's symbolic of Freedom.

Angron when holding it mentions that he feels like he actually has the ability to choose, when such is a fundamental thing angron, especially in canon, was lacking. The metaphors of 'Taste of Fresh air after a life in chains' lends itself to that, IMO.
 
[X] Slay Tchar

And as a precaution:
[X] Walk Away

Whilst I'm mainly on the Slay train (insert the only one they fear is you.mp3), I can see why the situation gives many others pause, and whilst I'm sure as Hell not going to free this asshole, I'll at least be willing to give us some time to point out to Lorgar any potential flaws in this setup.
LotusPocus said:
I'm curious what a Tzeechn demon becomes once cut of from Tzeechn.
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They suffer a death of personality, I'm guessing

A Daemon is a Living idea or concept. Changing their mind might as well be changing their fundamental nature.
 
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