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A Simple Transaction I

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Yeah, we'd need about 16.5 Arete to actually buy that and with the thread's lessened vigor, that'll be pretty difficult. I imagine we'll at least get one more update seeing the preparations people have been making based on what wins where we'll have to pick what we're going with, and then it'll be go time. With that in mind, I'd still say choosing Vendetta is the way to go here. It's probably got the highest native chance of success and I imagine there'll be lower cost blurbs available based on what we see.
 
JOEbob said:
Close The Fist has 1 free signature move and 1 for 25 Arete; it only takes 25 Arete to get the two non-Hour Of Destiny signature moves.
The Signature Moves are, however, Antisynergetic. Invincible Vigor means* anything the Maiden does against Hunger just makes him stronger, and anything that wouldn't one-shot hunger is likewise nulled-
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Sufficiently high ISH/well-prepared counter would fully or partially pierce this effect. Nothing written in the blurbs is guaranteed to work at 100% effectiveness, therefore making layered, redundant defenses relevant.
 
Pittauro said:
Just... what is Turn E! ?
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This was the lion sphinx that told Aobaru he was the Chosen One.

I am personally quite taken with the Fields of Blood option: lots of people have volunteered to defend their home, and their consent somewhat rebuts the charge that Hunger is a tyrant. It does come at the cost of his status as "invincible protector" however, which was hard-won in the Procyon battle. I doubt the voter base would take that trade.

Remember that "infinite endurance" means that Hunger would be able to keep Refinement of War active for the entire final exchange. We have already seen the Maiden get hit a few times by RoW, and in this scenario she'd also be grappling with the Arete-boosted teenagers.
 
Zampano said:
This was the lion sphinx that told Aobaru he was the Chosen One.

I am personally quite taken with the Fields of Blood option: lots of people have volunteered to defend their home, and their consent somewhat rebuts the charge that Hunger is a tyrant. It does come at the cost of his status as "invincible protector" however, which was hard-won in the Procyon battle. I doubt the voter base would take that trade.

Remember that "infinite endurance" means that Hunger would be able to keep Refinement of War active for the entire final exchange. We have already seen the Maiden get hit a few times by RoW, and in this scenario she'd also be grappling with the Arete-boosted teenagers.
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Rihaku said:
but infinite combat endurance so long as his territories can absorb the cost
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Well, it would give us infinite combat endurance until the army lasts.

This is probably not a problem if the Maiden doesn't have a card that would instantly destroy chaff, and given that she is very reluctant to use it, its either that or something that has a big cost to herself.

But there is still a chance, a good chance in my opinion, that she COULD instantly destroy our armies, she just doesn't want to because...well, it would involve destroying so many people.

But will that hold if she is losing?

This would evaporate our advantages regarding this, as this is not an investment into personal, concentrated power. I also think we should increase our power rather than increase our "combat endurance", as we may need a new peak of strength if her other cards are horrific enough,
 
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Prospalz said:
Just win lol
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Shard said:
I'd go for whichever option we can attain enough Arete (after extracting them from Blood Halo's +Companion Survival%) to maximize victory chances, so:

0 Arete: CtF, Hour of Destiny (really not my preferred option but if we somehow generate nothing, it's a sure-win option)
3.3 Arete: Fields of Blood
8.35 Arete: CtF, Living Legend + Invincible Vigor
10 Arete: O2
16.66 Arete: Perfect Merger
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There are no sure-win options. Whatever the Maiden has prepared should not be underestimated. For the maximal immediate power which Hunger believes would most augment his chances, Close the Fist + All Three Signature Moves would be best. For efficiency, 02 is very attractive.

Perfect Merger is very strong but considerably less potent than Supreme Close the Fist. Countering the Maiden's apex Grace is amazing, but we haven't even seen her use her non-Grace assets beyond her native beauty. Remember how many prepared contingencies Dien had and he wasn't even a real Titled Foremost!
 
Rihaku said:
There are no sure-win options. Whatever the Maiden has prepared should not be underestimated. For the maximal immediate power which Hunger believes would most augment his chances, Close the Fist + All Three Signature Moves would be best. For efficiency, 02 is very attractive.

Perfect Merger is very strong but considerably less potent than Supreme Close the Fist. Countering the Maiden's apex Grace is amazing, but we haven't even seen her use her non-Grace assets beyond her native beauty. Remember how many prepared contingencies Dien had and he wasn't even a real Titled Foremost!
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Sure, but supreme close the fist also means we get a VERY sucky epilogue of Hunger dying to the curse somewhere down the line, because it only takes one mistake for him to die, and he has no chance of ever freeing himself of Apocryphal short of the Accursed winning and freeing himself of all burdens.
 
Man I'm sad we didn't use 3 pick Maiden. Meh.
I like Fields of War the most out of pure price per utility standpoint. It improves Cavalry in a very direct and valuable way while also not being a huge "press ult" button for Maiden unlike most of other options. Everything else needs to play "can we survive Maiden's hidden trump card" mini game, which just sucks.
 
Valkhir said:
Why do you think Fields of War avoids this?
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Because it is just Cavalry with extra fodder and Hunger stamina and because instead of giving 0.4 Divine Style Counters and power of Biliteral Funlopop Axiom it just straight up gives you win+.
So instead of doing random fucking cool sounding shit we just use power of friendship to stab Maiden and go home. Plus cucking Maiden outta her power up is funny to me.
 
Wolfy said:
Because it is just Cavalry with extra fodder and Hunger stamina and because instead of giving 0.4 Divine Style Counters and power of Biliteral Funlopop Axiom it just straight up gives you win+.
So instead of doing random fucking cool sounding shit we just use power of friendship to stab Maiden and go home. Plus cucking Maiden outta her power up is funny to me.
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I feel like relying on stamina is fine and all, but the stamina itself relies on fodder which is unreliable, I think.

Is it not possible, that at least one of the Maiden's trump cards could destroy the fodder or armies that we rely on for strength and stamina?

Why would it be less likely than any other trump card? We still haven't seen any of her artifacts and many Graces.

Her beauty itself is already extremely dangerous, but its a passive thing.
 
Prospalz said:
Sufficiently high ISH/well-prepared counter would fully or partially pierce this effect. Nothing written in the blurbs is guaranteed to work at 100% effectiveness, therefore making layered, redundant defenses relevant.
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The elevation of this effect is equal to that of his otherwise mightiest abilities. As such, the Elevation of this effect is at least as high as the highest of Sanctum (ISH 3.5 at minimum), Refinement Of War Pierce Through, whatever the heck hungers Physicals are by now, or, arguably, Progression (which I'd guess to have an elevation of Yes because it's the Accursed's thing) or the Decimator's Affliction (it may be a curse, but draining 10% of your enemies life per year is technically an ability, and it's high elevation and potentially exceedingly mighty).
In other words, it's elevated enough that, if someone can pierce it, it begs the question of why they didn't one-shot Hunger already.


If this logic is invalid, then we're at the point where the blurbs are no longer usefully informative and we might as well just look at the Arete prices and hope Rihaku was pricing by value.
 
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JOEbob said:
In other words, it's elevated enough that, if someone can pierce it, it begs the question of why they didn't one-shot Hunger already.
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Rihaku said:
Whosoever shows their trump card first, always loses
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Maiden does not possess perfect knowledge of Hunger's abilities, and there are always costs for the uttermost exertion. Maidens hopes to finish this without shattering herself.
 
Rihaku said:
[ ] Perfect Merger [50 Arete] - Gisena consumes the Arcanist in full, gaining the complete measure of that Shard's experience and abilities without compromising her own traits or identity whatsoever. Such transcendental mastery of Foremost Runes is the perfect counter to the Maiden's Surpreme Grace. Her power can be considered fully equal to Hunger's own, including the Devouring War and Armies of the Shogun effects, and with domains of influence complementary to his. A further —Augustine, -Adorie.

*The Maker: Gisena takes up the Foremost Title of Arcanist, and resumes their post as sovereign of Nilfel. She can make beings on the level of Turn E! If the Mirellyian were mere stewards, this is the Queen's full returning. Convert the Season's Greeting defensive bonus into increased effectiveness against dangers derived from the Apocryphal Curse.
*Foremost Nullification: +Half-stage mitigation for all Curses besides the Decimator's Affliction
*True Genius: +1 ISH to the benefits of Renaissance Woman. Gisena will be insufferably smug.
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...I WANT IT.

[X] Vendetta

Question: for Arete generation purposes, is posting builds for non-thread CYOAs valid? Obviously, linking said CYOAs would also be entailed.
 
Worth noting that even haeliel has never fully mitigated the apocryphal curse. And does it matter if he can't fully mitigate it if he dies to it right now? Hour of destiny essentially allows hunger to have 3 get out of jail free cards for apocryphal, and doesn't stop us from getting an amount of apocryphal mitigation befitting a high cursebearer. Fully mitigating the apocryphal curse is an extreme task that would require us to surpass haeliel.
 
GenericName said:
Worth noting that even haeliel has never fully mitigated the apocryphal curse. And does it matter if he can't fully mitigate it if he dies to it right now? Hour of destiny essentially allows hunger to have 3 get out of jail free cards for apocryphal, and doesn't stop us from getting an amount of apocryphal mitigation befitting a high cursebearer. Fully mitigating the apocryphal curse is an extreme task that would require us to surpass haeliel.
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I think Haeliel had other things to do she considered more worth her effort.

And it's.

Use Hour of Destiny Once(Maximum Possible Mitigation for Hunger: 7/8)
Use Hour of Destiny Twice(Maximum Possible Mitigation for Hunger: 6/8)
Use Hour of Destiny Thrice(Maximum Possible Mitigation for Hunger: 5/8)

A Considerable cost.

Edit: For Clarity, Haeliel has stage 7 mitigation for Apocrypha
 
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OctarineShrike said:
I think Haeliel had other things to do she considered more worth her effort.

And it's.

Use Hour of Destiny Once(Maximum Possible Mitigation for Hunger: 7/8)
Use Hour of Destiny Twice(Maximum Possible Mitigation for Hunger: 6/8)
Use Hour of Destiny Thrice(Maximum Possible Mitigation for Hunger: 5/8)

A Considerable cost.

Edit: For Clarity, Haeliel has stage 7 mitigation for Apocrypha
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I'm not denying the cost, but we don't need it to solve anything beyond the current issue. It's an option you use when the other option is death. Using it purely to defeat the maiden would max us out at the amount of mitigation haeliel currently has. A heavy cost, but not the guaranteed epilogue death some might see it as.
 
The Apocryphal Curse is 'may you live in interesting times', not 'may you die', so in principle it should be possible to mitigate it so it doesn't lead to risk of death, only of other things like being poor, and probably get complete-in-that-regard mitigation before you get to 8, since it's narrower. It would still be a curse and bad, but nevertheless...
 
Crimson Moon said:
Under suggestion of @Orm Embar, I share what I dubbed Genesis CYOA for entertainment and feedback. I hope you enjoy it and serves as a good source of shameless bribery discussion, as it clocks at almost 9k words.
​
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What I got from this is that a) Emperor Red would be ridiculously powerful here, b) A Ring and Old Blood would let True/Outer Heirs mess around with their blood, so my serious build would look like this:

[G] True Heir (3 Coins)
[G] Old Blood (2 Coins)
[G] A Ring (3 Coins)
[G] At Doom's Gate (+2 Coins)
[G] Genesis Protocol (+3 Coins)

The idea is to crash-train my way up to the point in the Magisuran Arts where True Heir blood being manipulated is possible, aided both in this and my training by the Ring. In general, the Ring serves as a Progression booster, so if the potential new Epoch True Heir blood no longer being inert wasn't enough, being able to ignore the soft cap my True Heir self had hit via A Ring would also be of great help. Presumably, our Random Omnipotent Being here chucked us into the Cradle and it's environs to counter the Genesis Protocol, but the systems of the universe are not so easily dissuaded, so it would not be wrong to say the universe is trying to keep me from interfering, one way or another. True Heir's experience and network of contacts does a lot to keep Genesis Protocol from dooming me.

My now-obligatory Greed build would simply add Exalted for it's categorical improvement across the board and another Progression booster to further boostrap my growth, and Backdoor to Akasha. If anybody would have synergistic magics I could peruse, it would be them, and Exalted would ensure at least a modicum of talent. Assuming of course they didn't decide that my discovery of active use of True Heir blood made my worth Trazyn-ing. That is, stuck in a vault somewhere, frozen in time.
 
I think 02's better than it looks. At infinite Prowess, Letrizia can fight the Maiden blind without difficulty.

And her freedom focus won't work as well on a child of destiny. Our daughter's not as refined as the Maiden, but she's a heroine and a holdout. Maybe the Maiden paints a prettier picture; but Letrizia has never fled her life's calling, and I doubt she would choose peace over war even now.
 
Valkhir said:
Thats bad when metaphysically or metaphorically we're closer to a Tyrant and the enemy has super memetics.
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She's also an invader and we're a lawfully elected official.

I see Aobaru as more vulnerable intrinsically. His rise was a series of trade-ups: prodigy to squire to pilot to shogun to grand duke. The Maiden has fertile ground within him. But Letrizia, if allowed even a smidgeon of agency, would fight like a dog gone rabid if it protected her homeland. In fact, national chauvinism is so crucial to her identity that even Astral divinity wasn't enough to shear it away.
 
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