My main issue is that her specific objections of tyranny while being aware of her blatant hypocrisy -
make them illegitimate. So she is allowed to be tyrannic and force people to follow her but Hunger isn't?

This is, I think, my main gripe. What Hunger is doing may not be defensible, but when she is doing the exact same thing, she is insisting that she is purer and better than Hunger.

At this point, Hunger's footprint on the Human Sphere does become applicable, because she is saying that she can do better.

I don't think you've really made the case that their doing the exact same thing though, except in the loose sense insofar as someone who kills a serial killer is doing the same thing as said serial killer. Hypocrisy is a really tricky concept to talk about, especially since most people make broader moral statements about things then they actually mean.

I'm sure you've met a boatload of people who've both said something to the effect of 'killing is bad' but have also hypocritically argued that it's justified in certain circumstances like say war, not because killing people in those circumstances isn't still a tragedy or no longer carries moral weight, but because it serves some greater good in the world then not picking up arms. I know I have!

Their's a lot of pacifists in the world who look at those people similar to how you see The Maiden.

That sentence was directly about her using her divine beauty to temporarily convince Aobaru to switch sides all though imperfectly based off the last paragraph, but pretty much indication we've gotten about her past, internal monologue, and WoG from Rihaku is that she's doing what she considers to be a bad thing because it's a lesser evil then allowing Hunger's to continue ruling and conquering for untold eons, and that she once she wins she no real intention to mirror Hunger.

I think most people in this thread would agree that temporarily doing something you find morally objectionable as a last resort to stop something you percieve as far worse and lasting doesn't necessarily rob your criticism's of the latter of legitimacy. It's pretty in line with Hunger ethos too, considering he routinely does things he philosophically objects too or considers ethically bad because it makes achieving his goals easier and he thinks the alternative of failing would lead to much worse things.

Edit: Ftr, I sympathize more with Hunger and want to him, but I figure the narrative is more interesting when his antagonists are occasional nuanced with understandable reasons to oppose him and occasional present genuine philosophical challenges along with the physical ones.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Sara on Jul 22, 2022 at 4:33 PM, finished with 104 posts and 37 votes.


@Rihaku here you go
 
[X] Close The Fist

Strategically voting for CtF because there were cool patreon blurbs for it
 
[X] The Cavalry

Close the Fist's +Simping worries me, as Hunger has already been forced to put out his eyes to avoid subversion. A nice callback to the Forebear closing his ears to the Ur-Mother's words, but it testifies to the power of the Maiden's beauty. The slightest glimmer of hesitation could spell his doom. If we're going to wager everything on one exchange, the Cavalry is a better bet. Higher lethality means lower chances of the Maiden surviving to deploy her final trump card, and it effectively leverages Blood Halo's Arete bonus. At this rate Hunger is headed for a loss; low odds of companions dying is a price I'm willing to pay. Perhaps the uttermost expression of Shadowcord can dim the Maiden's terrible radiance for one crucial instinct?

I would vote Vendetta, but it's not clear that a longer fight necessarily means better odds for Hunger overall. It changes the tempo at the cost of ensuring the Maiden gets to play all the cards in her hand. Augustine's displeasure is irrelevant at this juncture, though. Unless enough minus signs mean the composite entity acts against Hunger, who gives a shit? She exploited countless others in the service of her Vendetta, and doesn't get to complain now that the shoe's on the other foot. Hunger ate Verschlengorge; feeding Augustine to Gisena is small potatoes in comparison. Letrizia went whole hog on the psychological alterations to live happily within Hunger's domain and still lost loyalty, which implies truly horrifying trauma...

To summarize my reaction to Blood Halo: it's an incredibly cool fight scene, but we really should have picked Inheritance. How is Blood's Ringbearer losing a battle of attrition?
 
[X] The Cavalry

The Companions of the King are not a convenience to be quietly mocked. They are the arms that reach where his cannot, who ride upon winds of will and schemata beyond his borders, that he may rule in peace despite his law by sword.

The Maiden stands alone. Why? Does she fear her beauty that much? Show her the folly of the martyr. Show her a world that can live without Daylight.
 
Yeah I'm worried about that +simping as well as I fear that her trump card would involve Beauty in some major way. Perhaps use her connection with Cat to reincarnate as our wife to stay our hand or something like that.

And yeah using power of friendship to beat the final villain is pretty fun.
 
[X] The Cavalry

Orm and Power of Friendship memes have convinced me to flip my vote again.
 
[X] Close The Fist

Choosing to weaken ourselves to buff up companions is really too risky. We already saw that Aobaru was instantly stunned by Beauty, and Rihaku said that was a successful Will save.

Assuming even one of our companions fails their will save, they're basically using the power of the Legions that we could have used ourselves to serve the Maiden instead. Even if they don't, a successful will save vs the Maiden's Beauty results in them basically being rendered much less useful than they would be.

This is a MUCH bigger risk than the +Simping from CtF, because we have no reason to assume any of our companions have higher willpower than Aobaru. +0.3 ISH is a massive leap in personal power, and that power is not likely to be seduced from us by Beauty or turned against us because Hunger still has uttermost willpower. My second preference is Vendetta but there's no way I can say Cavalry is safe enough.
 
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According to Rihaku on Discord, Aobaru's feat of managing not to completely defect to the Maiden's side the moment he's seen her beauty is an immense feat, on the scale of, "not getting oneshotted by Hunger," and the fact that he was able to act against her, even indirectly, is also very impressive. Aobaru's not that much less powerful than us, too, so I don't know how to feel about Cavalry. It seems to me like we'd be inviting our companions to basically come in, fail their Will saves, and help the Maiden fight against us - unless there's some reasonable way in which they could gain resistance/immunity to the effect (but if such is the case, why didn't Aobaru have access to that, as well?)

Among the options available to us, Cavalry is the highest risk. It might assure success, but the odds of loss are high, and loss in our situation would be catastrophic. Compared to that, Vendetta allows Gisena to aid us against a caster enemy (as she's always done,) and Close the Fist would let Hunger indirectly benefit from Aobaru's +% to survival, on top of being essentially a Super Saiyan mode. Hunger's already blinded himself to the Maiden's beauty and his willpower is unbreakable - even so, a single point of vulnerability in the form of +Simping is a far lesser risk than the many cracks and flaws introduced by Cavalry and the insidious nature of Vendetta.
 
I wonder if the "wounds are unhealing and grow worse and worse overtime" aspect of Blood Halo will ever come into play, as it seems that the sole remaining enemy in the quest as well as the only opponent after its purchase is able to heal through it anyway even if the amplification effect wasn't going to ramp up thanks to how short the fight is going to last in real time.

I mean I get why she can but I'm now curious as to the band size of enemies where its neither drastic overkill or insufficient because we're firmly in the territory where ISH trumps blurb text.
 
[X] The Cavalry

What Fayhem said.

So. I had a thought. The Maiden's power is sourced from her conceptual 'purity' both in thought and purpose. While purity is not objectively good(Oh, my heart is very pure... pure evil.) it is generally regarded as such by people who value such things. Would posting Maiden porn among her brainwashed followers be a viable tactic? They're already brainwashed, so it's not like her Beauty would be a hazard, and it's an attack on both her reputation and her purity, which would be a double-whammy. Heck, technically, each repost among them could constitute another attack. Given their state, they'd either happily spread it amongst themselves, or become offended and show it to each other to stoke their fury. Given that they were meant to serve as a distraction, would that not imply sufficient speed of action/reaction that their communications ought to be fast enough to be relevant to the fight.

According to Rihaku on Discord, Aobaru's feat of managing not to completely defect to the Maiden's side the moment he's seen her beauty is an immense feat, on the scale of, "not getting oneshotted by Hunger," and the fact that he was able to act against her, even indirectly, is also very impressive. Aobaru's not that much less powerful than us, too, so I don't know how to feel about Cavalry. It seems to me like we'd be inviting our companions to basically come in, fail their Will saves, and help the Maiden fight against us - unless there's some reasonable way in which they could gain resistance/immunity to the effect (but if such is the case, why didn't Aobaru have access to that, as well?)

Among the options available to us, Cavalry is the highest risk. It might assure success, but the odds of loss are high, and loss in our situation would be catastrophic. Compared to that, Vendetta allows Gisena to aid us against a caster enemy (as she's always done,) and Close the Fist would let Hunger indirectly benefit from Aobaru's +% to survival, on top of being essentially a Super Saiyan mode. Hunger's already blinded himself to the Maiden's beauty and his willpower is unbreakable - even so, a single point of vulnerability in the form of +Simping is a far lesser risk than the many cracks and flaws introduced by Cavalry and the insidious nature of Vendetta.

This might be a longshot, but let's assume for a moment that the Companions being relevant to the fight means that their conceptual elevation is high enough that resisting her infinite brainwashing is possible despite individually being weaker than Aobaru. Aobaru and Hunger have the disadvantage of being a straight teenage boy faced with an impossibly beautiful woman, and we all know how succubi going up against teenage boys usually goes, and the maiden's body being Hunger's wife's dimensional counterpart and so he's presumably inclined towards her by default. Letrizia, Gisena, Adorie, and Aaerie don't have either of those problems. I'm reasonably certain they're all at least leaning towards a male attraction, or not attracted to anyone, since it may be Aaerie's memetic forgettability, but I can't recall her making any sort of pass at anyone, unlike Gisena constantly flirting with Hunger, Adorie's rivalry with her suggesting a contest for his affection, and Letrizia thinking about how Aobaru is objectively the best possible mate she could access, which may incline her to be put out with the maiden over probably-killing him and the brainwashing attempt. Aaerie being asexual would probably be a harder wall to bypass, though it's entirely possible she simply has assassin training in ignoring bodily urges like those, unlike Aobaru. Adorie probably has at least some education in ignoring bodily urges when they might interfere with her royal duties, and Gisena probably gets a buff to resisting the false sun's appearance because, much like Superman's son, she has the same potential, works off the same powersource, and has access to a few tricks entirely her own, and for all that the supposed anti-crone is a genius thanks to her Grace buffs, Gisena was a genius before Graces came into play, which might be of use. Letrizia's literally done 'brain surgery' on herself, and would probably be willing to do a little more if she thought it necessary, assuming what she's already done wouldn't interfere.

Regardless, while a normal ISH or normal-ish human might not be able to reasonably resist her(see 75% of the vanguard force immediately becoming her slaves and killing their comrades in arms of a moment before when she releases her memetic attack) anyone on anything resembling a peer level with Hunger or Aobaru should at least be capable of it. Heck, some of the normal-ish humans out here in the super-Armaments managed it. This is all assuming all of her facial wounds have been healed and that they don't negatively impact her beauty like the infinite Rank being dependent on Hunger's base Rank in Inheritance's Ruin Incarnate.

I wonder if the "wounds are unhealing and grow worse and worse overtime" aspect of Blood Halo will ever come into play, as it seems that the sole remaining enemy in the quest as well as the only opponent after its purchase is able to heal through it anyway even if the amplification effect wasn't going to ramp up thanks to how short the fight is going to last in real time.

I mean I get why she can but I'm now curious as to the band size of enemies where its neither drastic overkill or insufficient because we're firmly in the territory where ISH trumps blurb text.

Yeah, I'd probably have gone for Imperishable Night or Inheritance if I'd known that aspect would be meaningless. Maybe those blurbs were meant to reflect how the madine(I misspelled that on purpose) would have been affected before the power-ups? Rihaku's allowed trap options(Tower of Earth for example) before, and we're dealing with the kind of ISH that could affect blurbs here. Maybe it's a Daylight Realm 'burning out corruption' sort of deal? She explicitly diverting power to heal this stuff, so perhaps it's a case of sacrificing stamina for continued function?
 
I wonder if the "wounds are unhealing and grow worse and worse overtime" aspect of Blood Halo will ever come into play, as it seems that the sole remaining enemy in the quest as well as the only opponent after its purchase is able to heal through it anyway even if the amplification effect wasn't going to ramp up thanks to how short the fight is going to last in real time.

I mean I get why she can but I'm now curious as to the band size of enemies where its neither drastic overkill or insufficient because we're firmly in the territory where ISH trumps blurb text.

But the Maiden has NOT healed those wounds.


She either harmed herself to avoid being striked by the unhealable attacks, or she did the metaphysical equivalent of "pinching the wound close to stop the blood from leaking out", or, in one case, she basically cut off the wounded part and sort-of replaced it with a magical construct (when she cut off her left side).


The wounds we inflicted are all still very much there.
 
I. Am so glad. I checked the thread.

By the by, @Aabcehmu would 800K+ in Theft, Prowess, and Protection let me pull weird conceptual shit like 'stealing' my own impossible energy(given your Int, Wits, Willpower, Charisma, and Vitality are all 800K+ as well I would assume even unrefined general energy to be pretty potent stuff, and it should be trivial to make something more refined if I want to) while protecting myself from the negative effects without actually retrieving that energy and tossing it into the wider cosmos. Basically acting akin to a Font of Wonder or the old Wellspring idea Rihaku had?
lol, lmao

That's all well within the possibility of stats in the 800000 range. yeah. Honestly that's not even close to the top level of absurdity you could achieve with stats that high. Tactics like 'steal from myself, without losing what was stolen, to instantly multiply it' is probably, like, 1000-2000 range bullshit at least initially?
 
But the Maiden has NOT healed those wounds.


She either harmed herself to avoid being striked by the unhealable attacks, or she did the metaphysical equivalent of "pinching the wound close to stop the blood from leaking out", or, in one case, she basically cut off the wounded part and sort-of replaced it with a magical construct (when she cut off her left side).


The wounds we inflicted are all still very much there.

Sacrificing stamina for continued function, like I said. The question is if that's going to be relevant in 12 exchanges, possibly in combination with Titled. Actually, has she noticed that they're getting worse yet? That last bit has her say her wounds would slowly recover. She also mentioned that the wounds spilled essence unnaturally fast, but didn't mention that it was getting worse, which leads me to suspect she doesn't realize it's getting worse because it hasn't been long enough for more than a single exchange of blows yet. They can't worsen over time if no time passes, after all.

lol, lmao

That's all well within the possibility of stats in the 800000 range. yeah. Honestly that's not even close to the top level of absurdity you could achieve with stats that high. Tactics like 'steal from myself, without losing what was stolen, to instantly multiply it' is probably, like, 1000-2000 range bullshit at least initially?

Understood. I have an Omake idea...
 
Since the Maiden has all the published Graces, we can probably ascertain some of her weaknesses / attack methods:

1) Porcelain's Grace:
*Grace of the Glaze - Vastly magnifies the power of her other Graces, allegedly to the level of the Maiden herself. Alternatively, enormously reduces the effectiveness of Graces and Elven Runes employed against her.

so Gisena's attack vectors that use Nullity, or her own Grace-like effects will be at a largely reduced effect(even if they are evolved Graces, the Maiden definitely has something similar at an evolved level thanks to infinite training and Mary-Elizabeth's metapower grace etc).

2) Mary-Elizabeth's Grace:
*A number of Graces all of which deal with the imparting, augmentation, reduction, or transformation of supernatural effects. Hard to pin down her exact limits, as one Grace can often substitute for another.

since she has infinite training + this she's definitely evolved all her graces to Gisena level or much higher, so we can't count on Gisena doing a whole lot because nearly every part of her native powerset including the maker stuff is countered by both Glaze and Mary-Elizabeth + Maiden's own Nullity.

Gisena should basically be restricted to the attack vectors she can get from Augustine's magic + Adorie, which is probably why she is using CTF in the first place so she can get non-Grace magics.

3) Mental Apex, one of Seram's offered Graces:
Ultimate - True Dominion: Once per month, the Sorcerer may launch an all-out assault upon an enemy's mind, coring out their self to wear them like a puppet. Only one being may be so mastered at a time. Enemies may resist with a composite (Will Rank x 10 + Level) against (Sorcerer's Wits + Level) check; on a success they resist and this ability is still expended, but the Sorcerer suffers no form of backlash or feedback. The Sorcerer controls the target's mind with no loss of signal fidelity, no second-chance at resistance, and no impediments to his normal functioning: multi-tasking is spontaneous and flawless.

and

*Dramatically increases Seram's general intelligence, altering his personality and improving his implementation of plans.

so, even if the Gisena fusion will use non-native attack vectors from Augustine and Adorie to do a whole lot of damage, she's vulnerable to the Maiden deciding to mindjack her. Her will rank isn't as impressive as Hunger's, we can't assume she'll definitely win. This drawback applies to Cavalry too, though there the power is split up into multiple people so her mindjacking one isn't "so" damaging.

The part where it changes the user's personality and makes their planning better is probably also a reason why it's easy for her to use her beauty against us, and also lets her have more freedom of action (?). Assuming Gisena wins and her Nullity can nullify even one Grace, this should probably be the first priority to remove from the enemy. It might make attacks on her morality more effective, and the personality change in general too.


4) Lord Regnant: (one of Seram's offered Graces) This simple, yet deceptively power capability gives the Sorcerer the power to bind any agreement between two consenting beings. Forevermore they will find themselves not merely incapable of breaking the agreement, but their very nature will change to support the spirit of their compact.

Assuming her beauty doesn't count as unnatural mental influence, she can use this to make any subverted companions permanently subverted so we can't somehow recover them.

5) Archsmith's Hammer:
the version Seram was offered was limited to weapons of war. workings scale with strength (50 points of STR per), and the maiden has fuckoff stats so I'm just assuming she has a couple thousand workings up her ass.

with Mary-Elizabeth, she can potentially mod the restriction to not be on weapons of war and make some form of utility artifact. I'm not sure what she could make that could be relevant, though. Maybe a sentient army of artifacts or something. Going back to Dr. Apocalypse quest might help us see what workings might do at a low level.

They're probably stored in her Inner Sanctum so I don't think we can easily steal or destroy them. But, if we can somehow use space to make accessing the sanctum more difficult it might prevent her from using them at all.

6) Evoker's Panoply:
The version Seram was offered has Fire, Lightning, Thunder (sound) and Force (telekinesis) spells that got access to exotic attack vectors pretty quickly. Aobaru can somewhat resist the first, but with Mary-Elizabeth she can hypothetically modify her panoply to offer like, ice or dark attacks or whatever she needs.

We can't expect "type resistance" like Aobaru fusion to wholly cover our ass, basically.

I still think CtF is the best though, since +ISH is massively good. It is much better to concentrate power into a single person, rather than something that can be stolen from us via beauty charm (made permanent via Lord Regnant) or literally mindjacked via Mental Apex.
 
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Elevating Aobaru's mastery of light and flame to Hunger's level honestly sounds really helpful for nerfing the Maiden's attacks and general reality-assault? Plus Hunger's eye wounds are unhealing, so Hungerbaru still won't have eyes and thus will retain at least most of Hunger's resistance to the Maiden's Beauty.
 
This might be a longshot, but let's assume for a moment that the Companions being relevant to the fight means that their conceptual elevation is high enough that resisting her infinite brainwashing is possible despite individually being weaker than Aobaru.
I think you're forgetting that love, or even attraction, needn't be romantic. People have fallen in love with the beauty of ideals and inanimate things before, and done insane things in the name of that overwhelming sensation.

This isn't simply about 'hormonal teenage attraction,' but sheer, incandescent beauty - the Maiden is a priceless work of art, so beautiful that merely beholding her countenance for a second and then having it taken away can make you cry and have a mental breakdown over the cruelty of the universe, at showing you something so great then subsequently removing it. The reason that some of the Armaments didn't rebel was most likely Hunger's own Rank and Law contesting the Maiden's beauty across the vast distances.

Aobaru's feat was something of immense power; there's an element of subjective perception to it, but the Maiden's Appearance is infinite in multiple cardinalities. She's so breathtakingly beautiful and lovely that stars and laws of physics fall in love with her - companions who aren't necessarily lesbian or bisexual needn't be immune, and probably aren't. The only thing that'd let them resist, maybe, is having equally high Willpower, blinding themselves as Hunger did, using Astral Rank, or other methods - and even in combination of all these factors, the Maiden's Appearance is so high it can pierce even these defenses (see Rihaku's mention of scent, voice, etc.)

Simply the concept of her existence could very well be impossibly attractive - she's, in essence, a memetic infohazard. All I'm saying is that when Aobaru - himself probably the strongest of the companions, perhaps except for Gisena in certain areas - stutters and struggles to the utmost of his willpower, simply to not defect to the Maiden's side, how would you trust Letrizia, Adorie, or Aeira not to? They're all loyal to us, and our friends, yes, but the Maiden's loveliness transcends even deep companionship - we'd need to have a truly unbreakable, immutable, transcendent bond with each of our companions, and I'm not certain whether that can be completely trusted.

As an example, Letrizia clearly disliked the fact that we absorbed Verschlengorge, even in spite of her mental alterations - given the dire necessity of the situation, she'd probably understand the utilitarian calculus behind that decision. However, exposed to the Maiden's power, that resentment might surge forth and cause her to doubt. Assuming, then, that she proves as mentally resilient as Aobaru, she'd be disabled and exposed as a target we have to protect at minimum. As Rihaku's statement says, it's unlikely any of our companions will actually die (especially given the % bonus from Blood Halo,) but that doesn't mean they can't be subverted, disabled, rendered useless, or otherwise annulled in a plethora of ways. Forces beyond fate and narrative will contort to ensure their survival, but their survival doesn't necessarily mean victory for us.

I really, honestly, wholeheartedly believe that Cavalry is too risky for these reasons. Even Rihaku stated himself that Cavalry is the riskiest of the options. Is that really worth the potential reward - killing the Maiden - when every path's intent is to conclude in the same result anyway? I don't think so.

The demerits of Cavalry are many - I'd prefer even Vendetta if my hand was forced. As much as I'm not a big fan of Gisena, she's been nothing except reliable. Compared to Cavalry, Vendetta elevates Gisena (with Arcanist, + Adorie, + Augustine) to the relevant power level and lets her assist us. It's going to be Gisena, but with Adorie's Rank and inherent powers, Augustine's mastery of Foremost magics, and everything the Arcanist possessed - a fragment though it may be. The effects of such a fusion are going to be insanely versatile and capable of nullifying an extreme portion of the Maiden's indomitable arsenal of powers, and the Rank itself might aid us in our contest against the Maiden. It'll also let Gisena get some revenge, which is nice.

Compared to these options, Close the Fist is something that aims to take the most underhanded advantage of the perk enabled to us by Blood Halo. One of the appeals of Inheritance was that it'd improve the odds of our victory. Instead, we picked Blood Halo, an option that improves the odds of our companions making it. Aobaru is our companion, and we can fuse with him. Close the Fist gives us a fraction of what made Inheritance appealing - the fusion of Hunger and Aobaru would directly benefit from Aobaru's improved survival odds; if the fusion of Aobaru and Hunger dies, then Aobaru would die, so by combining them, Hunger's odds of death are decreased.

And they'll only decrease more and more, as we produce more worthwhile content, discussion, and omake. Assuming we're able to reach the needed level, our victory odds would virtually skyrocket.

The Tyrant outsmarts the Hero by his treacherous power; the Hero defeats the Tyrant by fate's decree. Neither of them can ever hope to defeat the Maiden, the nature of whom is as the progenitive source of every Sorceress, whose eyes are sunlight rendered into glory. I believe in Closing the Fist; that by combining the Tyrant and the Hero into one great body, one infinitely exalted form, they may overcome what neither of them could ever hope to sheave alone.
 
But the Maiden has NOT healed those wounds.


She either harmed herself to avoid being striked by the unhealable attacks, or she did the metaphysical equivalent of "pinching the wound close to stop the blood from leaking out", or, in one case, she basically cut off the wounded part and sort-of replaced it with a magical construct (when she cut off her left side).


The wounds we inflicted are all still very much there.
Will they be?

Let's go down the list
With inherent perfection she parried his blow, accepting the implosion of her arm into splintering bone to lash out with a lance of sunlight at his heart.

And yet. While she had merely singed him, her arm was already reforming; his burn healed not at all.

Interesting. Perhaps the outcome would have differed if he'd struck her directly, but she had exerted her arm to destruction precisely in order to redirect, rather than match, the power of his blow. Nonetheless the gap in pure strength would have to be accounted for.

Impertinence. Her throat heaved as if cut, his words themselves opening a wound upon her neck. Her essence spilled out at unnatural pace, but mustering herself she quelled the injury. Keeping it closed was a continuous strain. Modest, compared to the extremes that would be required if she sustained a blow from the blade proper.

Hunger's second cut turned out to be a feint; closing the distance he shifted his grip to deliver a bone-crushing strike with the hilt at her temple. Pulverization of the essence and soul - space crinkled like shattering glass as she half-ducked beneath that assault, feeling eye and orbital crack from its mere passing weight.

She twisted off her own arm rather than let the blow land, hollow stump trailing blood as she fell to the middle distance and began to heal again.

Mere proximity to Lord Hunger was nearly lethal; at this range, the blade-light of his crimson halo sliced countless wounds into her face and limbs, her veil of lace repealed by one of blood.

his forehead crashed down with thunderous severity to impact against hers, even as the Armament-heads on his shoulder pauldrons released the cloak to swivel and bite down on her arms.


Her opponent pursued relentlessly, opening with a cross-cleave that also obliterated the Astral entirely, causing the uppermost textures to pancake down and shake the universe to its fundaments. Consequently the timing of her evasions was imperfect; her left shoulder was caught and reduced to a ragged mess, bleeding so profoundly even she couldn't afford to staunch it.
Her bleeding left side she gave up for lost - a moment's will and it slid off her frame, a single clean cut seared closed by daylight. Fresh waves of findross now repulsed his lingering influence, wounds sealing flawlessly as her blood slowly began to replenish.

Summing up this list
She used her arm to parry, her arm blew up as a result of the exchange and Hunger's strength and not beforehand. Her arm healed.
Hunger called her out. Cuts to the throat and she pinched the wound shut, basically where we see Blood Halo's unhealable thing but not its amplifying thing.
Eye and orbital socket cracked from a shockwave. ? Status
Cut off her own arm TIM style to not let a blow land. Healed since its self inflicted.
Face gets cut up. ? Status
Arm gets bit. ? Status
Left side got crushed by Hunger's attack. Cuts it off and wounds are flawlessly sealed and she's gaining blood instead of losing it, findross called out as shaking off Hunger's remaining influence and the only influence to shake off would be the Blood Halo effects.

So she currently has no open wounds Hunger did not inflict but "her wounds would recover if slowly" nonetheless as of the end of the update which implies that they're going to get better if this is dragged out not worse.
 
[W] Improvement. Unlock Protection. Attacks on my spirit are essentially the only method to kill me. Countering that will be important.
Hubris! Attacks on your ontology would also do the trick, and there are doubtless other methods. Still, Protection can be broadened enough to defend from them all.
[W] Improvement. Unlock Charisma. Honestly, I'm probably going to try and find a way to feed this into Protection or Might like Hunger. Regardless, I'll need to work on something to keep myself from pulling a Plenary Brand and striking everyone dumb with ten billion impressions of me seared into their soul.
Why not just pick something else, then? Progression is the most obvious by far, but presuming it's off the table, Luck is still an option. If non-canon Attributes are possible, then you could try Magic, Perception, Versatility, Fate, Compatibility, or possibly even Worthiness.
(Cheesing this into a Cursebearer offer is, of course, probably the strongest option on the table.)
 
Hubris! Attacks on your ontology would also do the trick, and there are doubtless other methods. Still, Protection can be broadened enough to defend from them all.

Why not just pick something else, then? Progression is the most obvious by far, but presuming it's off the table, Luck is still an option. If non-canon Attributes are possible, then you could try Magic, Perception, Versatility, Fate, Compatibility, or possibly even Worthiness.
(Cheesing this into a Cursebearer offer is, of course, probably the strongest option on the table.)

It works off of Aabcehmu's Dreams CYOA Attribute system, so as the Attribute rises, it gains a little conceptual value in addition to being roughly 60% more valuable per plus. 666 is basically infinite, given that's the bonus provided by the multiverse fruit.

Actually, yeah, Magic would probably be better, especially when Charisma's role would be largely filled by Appearance(basic human Attributes in Wish-verse are Strength, Intelligence, Vitality, Agility, Wisdom, Luck, and Appearance), and Magic would make my plans for crafting magical wells across the multiverse with altered metaphysics to cause them to endlessly produce Magic, at least within their confines, much more viable. Good idea.
 
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Ilbgar The Bizarre Hermit​

After making my Wishes, I set about hurrying up and waiting. At first, I spent a lot of my time simply reading massive swathes of fanfiction and catching up on an absolutely enormous backlog of shows and movies I had considered watching but never gotten around to. I also wrote a great deal. Some for various Quests I liked, and some for projects of my own. I effectively had all the time to do so I could ever want, after all. Relaxing more or less constantly did a great deal to mitigate the strain of having to off myself on a regular basis to avoid the pangs of hunger. Water was easy enough to get my hands on, but going out for food held too much risk of a butterfly effect. Not to mention the fact that I was so far from my own time that I might as well have been living in a bubble my whole life and vice versa where disease was concerned. Sure, Protection would probably help with that on my end, but nobody else on the planet that I knew of had that defense. The bunker's sewage system took care of any diseases my waste, including my daily corpses, might have produced, but that didn't do anything if I actually left it.

So I effectively sat there in the bunker the Genie had provided. And I waited. And waited. And waited... I wrote entire novels worth of Omakes for A Simple Transaction. As much for lack of anything better to do as anything else. Of course, over even a thousand years, a minimum of a thousand words a year was quite a bit. Especially as my Prowess, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Wits increased, as did my ability to ignore requirements for sleep as my Vitality and Willpower rose, giving me even more time on top of Thirteenth Hour. While I kept a few hours in reserve, I spent most of it to push my ten million years up about 830,000 more, meaning about 63000 more for all my Attributes.

By the ten thousandth year, with all my Attributes over 800 thanks to Thirteenth Hour, I had achieved infinite effective Strength, Intelligence, Vitality, Agility, Wisdom, Luck, Appearance, Prowess, Magic, Willpower, Wits, Protection, and Theft. Now, I obviously wouldn't have been anything resembling a fight for endgame Hunger, to say nothing of a High Cursebearer, but I thought I could mess around a bit with improving things for my multiverse.

Now, with my prodigious intellect, something that was objectively true and not a matter of pride, and a pool of Magic that was effectively of a single cardinality infinite backed with similar levels of Prowess in using it, I could make pocket dimensions of arbitrary size more or less at will. I spent millennia experimenting with that capability, revising my work dramatically every dozen points gained in my mental Attributes as previously incomprehensible matters became so simple that to compare them to 1+1 was a grave disservice to that calculation's difficulty, and every dozen points in Magic and Protection made it simpler to mold them and to shield the wider universe from any negative consequences I had not expected, either from their presence or if something went wrong. I began experimenting with modified physical laws around the time I achieved 1000 in my Attributes. Spaces where up and left were synonymous. Areas of modified time where aging did not occur, and mortal creatures would experience the benefits of the Needless Wish, but they could still act, and wounds and the like would heal without issue. Infinite planes where time and distance were related.

My reasoning for these pocket dimensions was twofold. First, they allowed me to experiment with my abilities with only minor effects on my local cosmology unless I deliberately chose otherwise, as unlike the Backrooms, my layered dimensions could not be reached by accident. Not in significant numbers at least, and I could easily detect any such instances and chuck them back out. Second, they would serve to buttress the universe, and in time, the multiverse. Certainly not enough to even inconvenience Hunger or the maiden, or entities of similar power. I recalled the smashing of other dimensions and sub-layers of reality in the opening rounds of that final fight, the entire multiverse the Human Sphere resided in being shaken by that conflict. I had absolutely no reason to believe that no such beings might exist in my multiverse, or at least no reason to believe no such potential existed in any beings, considering Cursebearer potentials likely existed within it. It was never very clear how many Cursebearers the Accursed had, but I highly doubted there were any multiverses without at least the one. The better supported the cosmology was, the less likely a calamity was to shatter it.

This was not to say I didn't keep an eye on the Earth. I was reasonably certain my Protection would ignore normal paradoxes, but that was no reason to take undue risks until I was sure the timeline had either been butterflied into oblivion or I'd at least achieved 10,000 in Protection and could be absolutely certain that messing with the timeline wouldn't cause problems for me. Unfortunately, I had overestimated the efficiency of the sewage treatment facility in the bunker, and while I'd stopped bothering with my abuse of True Immortality around the point I achieved 100 Vitality and Willpower around 1200 years in, that still left biomatter of impossible durability floating around, which slowly percolated through the environment, affecting the entire biosphere over the course of millennia. The residue of my ludicrous amount of mental energy, Magic, and Protection in these bodies was also affecting the spiritual energy of the Earth, to the point the average... I suppose I'd default to the common term, mana density had skyrocketed. Around 15000 years in, I noticed primitive mana-based lifeforms, which upon analysis seemed to be the Undertale Monster equivalent of Homo Habilis. Well, given I was fairly sure there wasn't a Mt. Ebott in my original timeline, let alone anything else to do with Undertale, I could be reasonably certain the timeline was screwed up. Just in case, I let things play out a few thousand years more. A few hundred points of Intelligence smarter and Wisdom wiser, I reassessed, and concluded that the Stands coming into existence among the ancestors of humans, splitting off alongside the chimps and bonobos from those of the gorillas, indicated the timeline was, bluntly, fucked.

Shrugging mentally, I assumed that 1250+ Protection was indeed enough for me to utterly ignore conventional paradoxes. So there was little reason not to interfere in a general manner. I began by using my ability to steal at the conceptual level and became a thief of my own energy. My Protection blocked any negative effects from this, with my Prowess and Luck assisting in the effort, so while my ownership of any given iota of energy was lost, I myself wasn't losing any energy. I began distributing this across the cosmos, constructing a 'pipeline' dimension to ease doing so across the multiverse. With each decade, the quality of this energy improved in one fashion or another, as did the quantity, and while I began merely able to destroy a singular universe and thus of little consequence on the scale of a multiverse, by the time I had achieved my first million years, 83,000+ in any given Attribute was more than enough to affect the entire multiverse.

Further, my pocket dimension project had born a great deal of fruit. An infinity of infinite planes served as a support structure for my home universe in 23 dimensional axes and counting, each set of infinite numbers of infinite planes having backups in the works. What's more, my understanding of physical and metaphysical laws allowed me to essentially make any sort of dimension I wished. Wells of magical energy of any type, as the nature of that dimension produced it naturally, whereupon it could be drawn out, and while the drawn out energy would be altered by the trip and could be consumed like any other form of energy, the well itself would never run out. A number of alien civilizations across the multiverse were tapping into them already, with the occasional push from me to keep them from blowing themselves up. No vagueness from this godlike entity, I would literally just tell them why something was a bad idea, sometimes showing them some of my failed dimensions or planes to drive the point home.

Still, my home universe seemed to be having a number of strange effects appearing even beyond the general multiverse. I suspected my personal presence was influencing it, since the energy I was releasing was calibrated for as even a distribution as possible across the multiverse, as I was not yet ready to expand my reach across the Hyperverse, nevermind the Outerverse containing all related structures connected in any way to my universe, the Metaverse containing all structure fictional and non, and certainly not the Omniverse that contained all of existence. No need to draw attention from any eldritch horrors from beyond just yet. The Megaverse, the collection of the million local multiverses, was under consideration though. From there, I would move on to the Gigaverse, the collection the nearest billion Megaverses, the Teraverse, the collection of the nearest trillion Gigaverses, the Petaverse, the collection of the nearest quadrillion Teraverses, and so on to Archverses of higher cardinalities than my current singular cardinality. Although, I supposed all the dimensions I was grafting onto the universe and multiverse as a whole was increasing it's size to an unusual level, making my local Multiverse a Macroverse.

The point being, I was officially multiversal. I had achieved speeds so far beyond lightspeed that I was effectively omnipresent in any universe which held my direct attention, and could at least keep track of the entire multiverse, though a few sub-dimensions devoted solely to their monitoring were of great aid to that particular endeavor. It made keeping an eye on any civilizations messing with world-destroying projects much easier. I was the opposite of the Great Filter. It was technically my responsibility in the cases where they were attempting to draw energy from one of the magical wells I had constructed anyway. At any rate, I began to interfere on a wider basis. I experimented with many timelines and variations of any given universe, testing the effects of unfinished universes and dimensions in the long-term, as opposed to ones that had self-destructed from some basic underpinning I had not fully understood failing, or the odd act of interference by one cosmic entity or another, as I had suspected would appear. The vast majority of these entities self-destructed within a century of their appearance, either killing each other or having their ascension come undone, as many were the result of their timeline or universe falling apart, with their survival having left them broken in fundamental ways. I was glad the Genie had granted me a safe means of ascension. It was no Progression, but no Curses to deal with was an even trade in my opinion.

Some survived, however, and slowly, they banded together. Drawing some inspiration from the Undertale multiverse of my original timeline, I crafted a version of the Omega Timeline they could use as a neutral ground. A pleasant enough sub-continent-sized landmass set in an infinite white void, which I would slowly expand over the years as it became a general evacuation zone for any destroyed universes and timelines, until it was larger than the solar system and growing. I even provided the doors that served as portals across the multiverse, on the understanding that they wouldn't abuse the privilege, being careful about anyone who'd shown themselves as a bad actor. I was under no obligation to police everyone, unlike Hunger's Tyrant Curse when combined with Indenture. However, I would not abet abuse of the networks I created to aid the inhabitants of my home multiverse.

Yet more time passed, my mental faculties making myself of a century before seem like an idiot, with my physical abilities being similarly improved and my Magic making my uttermost limits more akin to the most basic of spells. By my five millionth year, I was well on my way to expanding my system into the Gigaverse, more than 20% of it's constituent Megaverses having gained the dimensional reinforcement and slew of magical wells I provided, with Omega Timelines set up to evacuate refugees from broken universes and timelines, which I repaired as best I could, through both the mystical and technological mechanisms available to me. It seemed simulation theory was, in a manner of speaking, true, as the Undertale multiverse had indicated with coding being present in all beings not fundamentally broken by paradoxes such as being killed by their future self outside the bounds of their universe's flow of time. This meant that retrieving code fragments from destroyed universes made it possible to revive them, at least normally. A little help from some spells designed for this purpose never hurt.

Still more time passed, and the Megaverses under my watch blossomed. Apparently, like dandelions, while they would appear even in poor conditions, decent or great ones would see universes sprout up like weeds. Of course, I immediately began experimenting with my higher and lower dimensional infrastructure to influence this, mostly to have a control mechanism if they began outpacing my ability to support them, as had happened a few times early on, resulting in massive destruction in that multiverse. I certainly didn't want that happening again. The number and quality of my support dimensions constantly increased, now populated by Elementals I'd constructed to be capable of aiding in the protection and maintenance of the associated universes, multiverses, and so on. I was creating a small number of dimensions to provide limitless living space to head off any conflicts on that front in a few universes where habitable planets and structures were at a premium for one reason or another, such as not being able to terraform and/or build fast enough to keep up with their population. When you could casually make infinite planes of infinite number, solving space issues was trivial, and I'd long since resolved energy issues.

Finally, I hit my 10.83 million year mark, with 830,000+ in all 13 of my Attributes. Enough that I might actually have been a decent fight for Hunger or the maiden, though still well below the level of relevance to a High Cursebearer, or being of any interest to the Accursed. Given how long I'd spent living a largely solitary existence, I decided to celebrate roughly reaching my original point in time by taking some time off. I crafted an avatar for each of the universes under my self-proclaimed jurisdiction, and sent them off. Each avatar, because of how thinly spread they were and my own lack of care for if they were destroyed since they were basically created for semi-vicarious leisure time, had Attributes of 8 across the board, which put them at roughly 11 times the maximum for a human, though still well below the level of any major comic book character. Heck, in this modified timeline, a number of ostensible humans were stronger than my avatars. Still, being able to life 5.5 metric tons and equivalent feats for my other 12 Attributes was nothing to sneeze at as long as I kept a low profile.

Besides, I was basically Avatar Darkseid. Even if something did happen to me, the real deal would just send out another avatar. Plus, experiencing my home world from a relatively low-power perspective would help keep me grounded, which was another reason for all the avatars. Maybe I'd start some forum Quests in my off time. Hadn't gotten the chance to post most of the Omakes I'd written back in the beginning of my time in the bunker, since the timeline had been so dramatically altered that I was fairly certain half the people on the equivalents of Sufficient Velocity and Spacebattles didn't exist in this new timeline, and vice versa. Maybe I could sell some of the previous timeline's Disney, Netflix, etc. content back to the new iterations to make this avatar a nice sum. I could totally just have the main me cast a few spells to get arbitrary amounts or become the ultimate landlord of one paradisiacal pocket universe or another, but I'd rather not call on the main me to do extra work, and I was here to relax myself, and rocking the boat in that manner wasn't something I was interested in.

It was as I thought this that I witnessed a tall, thin man dressed in a vibrant red outfit try and send his Stand out to murder someone. Sighing, I went over to step in. It was entirely possible red suit had just had his family threatened or something, but he should at least take this somewhere more private than broad daylight if that was the case. Hopefully my inhuman Protection and Luck would let me resolve this without major incident.

...It was resolved without mass casualties, at least.

AN: So, my jury-rigged Wellspring emanations have modified the local multiverse into a combination of the Undertale multiverse, Madness Combat, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Epithet Erased, Metal Gear, El Goonish Shive, Grrl Power, Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss, Baki, and Miraculous Ladybug, all taking higher interpretations(so, for example, Undertale has Error 404 rolling around). All kinds of weird shit resulting from me just tossing energy into the cosmos, though divided between an infinite multiverse's individual universes. Then there's all the infinite planes I'd been making, including the infinite wells of magic across the multiverse. Really, my... well, it's not a non-interference policy, but I mostly intervene when there's something civilization-ending going on, like nuclear Armageddon, or a timeline collapsing. Anyway, my tendency not to interfere is the main reason my home universe hasn't become a Megaversal superpower, given the somewhat inadvertent headstart the others had gotten could be easily countered with active help, especially since my home base has by far the most developed interdimensional infrastructure. I've had a few nasties to deal with here and there, but I generally had an Attribute advantage of 100+ at least, so it's never been a problem, especially when I usually had Prowess to let me outskill them utterly. I'm currently top dog of my corner of existence, though well aware that's more a matter of nobody caring enough to bother me than anything else. I'm certainly not going looking for trouble by expanding as fast as possible. Slow and steady and what they say about that and races.

This was all mostly set up for the Slice of Life Omakes to follow, as I engage in shenanigans with the various casts. Abusing admin access to any and every sub-dimension you could want to mess with. From a recreation of the Backrooms, to a knockoff of the Realm of Evening and the Realm of Daylight, among others. Transcendent Ilbgar has played around with universes where everyone has their Imaginary Elements unlocked or what have you, but he's not Greedy. He's mostly interested in simply accumulating power at his current pace, reinforcing the cosmology to prevent some random conflict between universe destroyers from wiping out the local multiverse, and maybe becoming a Cursebearer someday. Geas of the Sanctum would probably work, given how long he/I spent in that bunker without moving from that spot. 2nd stage mitigation should be a simple matter for pretty much any Curse, 3rd shouldn't be too hard, and maybe even the 4th could be possible with dedicated research. Being a virgin for 10 million years is probably better for Cursebearer suitability than being 35 and being a virgin. Even assuming each order of magnitude longer provides a couple percent better suitability, 5 orders of magnitude would add up. Given I find the human body disgusting and have no plans on losing my virginity, like that one Omake where a certain Lich was offered Cursebearerhood on the basis of being the ultimate virgin, I imagine I might qualify for 2-Curse Progression. Plenary would probably be my other pick, given I despise sleep IRL, so I'd never pick Slumber, though I might go for Restless Slumber, if ignoring sleep requirements through Vitality sufficient to ignore universe-destroying blows like Superman would a handgun and horrifying Willpower is an option at stage 3-4 Mitigation.

Could he/I create a pocket universe where time passes a billion times faster and abuse that to supercharge my Attributes from the perspective of the rest of existence? Absolutely. There's already a few pocket dimensions with that sort of time dilation, meant to contain things like the SCP's Unkillable Lizard. Am I interested in doing that when I could actually go out and do things? No. Now, if the Accursed made an offer and doing that to power up beforehand was an option? Definitely, but I don't think the Accursed can bugger off to let you power up first and then come back to re-offer Curses and boons to you. It's a binary choice unless you do something to get offered more Curses, from what I've seen. Maybe he's just waiting until I'm in dire straits because I'm only suitable enough for 4 Curses even with the virgin thing. Or for me to actually do that 'wait a billion years in a time-accelerated dimension' tactic to maximize early Curse Mitigation. Because if I can be confident in hitting stage 3 in basically any Curse, I might go for a bunch of extras for free just to help him out, since Progression is a really powerful boon when you're already this strong and your main limiter is really slow growth compared to basically any other system that has ever existed. He can always use it, after all, and he'd know if I was willing to do that.

3700 words discounting this line.
 
Being a virgin for 10 million years is probably better for Cursebearer suitability than being 35 and being a virgin.
That's not really how it works.

There's no magic suitability quality that makes you better at being granted Progression to outside what is dictated by the Accursed's Curses.

Haeliel, for instance, had purity several ISH tiers above what's possible for an ordinary human before she had her own Transaction with the Accursed by virtue of her 26 Ordinals, but that didn't automatically mean she had amazing suitability. In fact, it was quite the opposite.

Starting power inversely correlates with suitability, because the Curses want the Accursed to have a hard time with getting great allies.

My personal suspicion is that potential is also a relevant factor, given that Hunger's starting power was relatively minimal, but had to take a Crowning Curse, Indenture, and two other Curses.

Reason being is that according to Rihaku, Hunger could trivially accomplish Indenture without a chance of death without Apocryphal, because the Procession of Worlds was a whole lot worse in terms of escalation (Unmitigated Indenture makes sure you're no more than twice as strong as the most powerful agent likely to be active in the setting), and the Forebear didn't have Progression to smooth the way to boot.

Apocryphal throws everything into whack, though. There's a reason why it's called the Bane of Heroes.
 
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