[X] Hopeless and Tireless Maiden Prayer [All Ambrosia]

On the topic of how terribly that last vote went for Zane, I'd just like to point out that this happening was Incredibly Obvious and I don't see why Anyone voted for this (It's not like Johnny is even fully saved. We stopped One attack (which on that note was a really stupid way to go about it if Zane had two seconds(personal) to watch the blow he should've pushed Johnny back instead and not suffered horrible wounds even if the outcome would've been the same), the mangler can still kill Johnny at any point without trouble and there's good odds he will if we don't suddenly kill him somehow.)
On the topic of this vote, Hopeless And Tireless Maiden Prayer is the only option which- Potentially- lets Zane 1) Survive and 2) Not sell his soul to a demon.
 
[X] Hopeless and Tireless Maiden Prayer [All Ambrosia]

Well damn.
Out of all the options... This one feels least hopeless? Well okay, it is hopeless. It has no hope for whoever would succeed Zane. It bets everything on a single chance that doesn't spell doom to humanity. And then keeps betting, even after first and second chances fail.

It really is Hopeless and Tireless, which I like about it.
 
Now, since our probability of survival here(in the HaTMP case, which Is leading) is directly proportional to how much Ambrosia we have, probably a good idea to try to increase the degree of that. That means more words.
7 minutes of looking blankly at the above and trying to think of a topic later...
anyone have a theory about how Hopeless And Tireless Maiden Prayer actually works? Like, yes, power from the Lotus Maiden, sure, but as we've seen that can take a few forms. We got access to the prayer for being a knight-aspirant, so maybe it's channeled through our knight arm? But then in what form? would it be a new Invocation which is pre-mastered? I don't think that's strong enough to win us this fight, though. An Invocation which is stronger than it should be for the Arm level, and is pre-mastered? an improvement to the Knight Arm as a whole? also possible, but those sound sorta like potential picks and so not the sort of thing you'd get while fighting the mangler to death. Maybe it's more like getting another one of the options from the Lotus Maiden- the Lotus remade thing, or something? depending on the specific option, that Is more short-term. this Is about getting an X Ambrosia improvement, not a temporary buff, so whatever it is would stick around.
[the following was not here at initial posting]
I don't think it's like getting another one of the options from the Lotus Maiden, though. for one thing, the improvement on offer is theoretically worth 25 Ambrosia, but a time-limited option to get another lotus-maiden selection cost 25 Ambrosia plus one pick in the Knight Arm Improvement. higher cost implies a stronger improvement more at 11 and probably so does being time-limited. But for another, I don't think the benefits would come in a format that... clashes, I guess? the Con of Hopeless And Tireless Maiden Prayer is low probability, not 'ending up with a build that's a random mishmash of things and doesn't fit together'.
...On the whole, I continue to have no idea what form Hopeless And Tireless Maiden Prayer success takes.
 
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As Joe said, if you are voting for the Maiden Prayer, it's recommended that you engage in some form of discussion or writing in order to elevate your chances of seeing a good roll as much as possible - otherwise, it'd be significantly more preferable to vote for another option - Maiden Prayer is the only one that could result in the quest actually ending!
 
Well, even if we don't engage in writing / we don't get more Ambrosia, it's possible to still prefer Maiden Prayer. Its base rate is already- as I understand the blurbs- a higher chance of uncompromised survival than any other option has access to. Ending the quest is bad, but we also have next to no information about what continuations once Zane dies would entail- do we control Zanes friends? Zane in the afterlife? Zane several years later after one of his friends gets a resurrection ability? something else?- which makes 'the quest continues' in many ways similar to 'a new quest of some kind starts'. Of course, I'm not saying Hopeless and Tireless Maiden Prayer is 'the right call'- It's very much a value judgement, and it's just the side of the judgement I landed on, though I do get the impression it also matches with the decisions made recently in terms of implied values.
Regardless, more discussion/writing is of course beneficial to Maiden Prayer, though it's likewise for every option since Ambrosia is still Ambrosia.
 
[X] Hopeless and Tireless Maiden Prayer [All Ambrosia]

anyone have a theory about how Hopeless And Tireless Maiden Prayer actually works?
Dude, I don't even have any idea what Ambrosia is, much less the things it lets us buy seemingly at random.

I will say that I think the hopeless part in this prayer is if we win the 25 Ambrosia power. Because the Mangler has demonstated such an extreme and holistic level of physical enhancement that I just don't think even a relevant power is going to give Zane much of a chance.
The tireless part is that we are still going to try. The hubris of youth demands risking it all for the best result, rather than a bitter compromise.
 
Dude, I don't even have any idea what Ambrosia is, much less the things it lets us buy seemingly at random.
fair enough.
(here's an attempted description: It's an abstract representation of how much threading the thread has been doing. Birdsie wants to encourage engagement, so proportional to the amount of engagement, he gives Ambrosia, which we can then exchange for improved story outcomes within the range of plausible outcomes. For instance, 'Brother Mine' was a power that Zane could have gotten from the Boreads card, but it would've been rather exceptional given his compatibility and that it was his first unlock; so we could've spent Ambrosia to make that happen. Brawlers Repute is something like this trade writ large, since I don't think Brawler(s life saving/odds doubling effect) is an in-universe thing per se. A 25-Ambrosia power is 'a power that is worth as much as 25 Ambrosia of general outcome improvement', roughly. Hopefully this helps?)
I will say that I think the hopeless part in this prayer is if we win the 25 Ambrosia power. Because the Mangler has demonstated such an extreme and holistic level of physical enhancement that I just don't think even a relevant power is going to give Zane much of a chance.
Luckily, we know this isn't the case.
from discord, Birsie:
A 25-Ambrosia power of sufficient esoteric puissance or at a particularly good vector might completely turn this around into a full victory.
A 12-Ambrosia power might, on the other hand, give you a chance of escaping.
the 25-Ambrosia power might not be of 'sufficient esoteric puissance' or have a 'particularly good' vector, but the odds of victory were much lower than the odds of escape to start with; if 25 Ambrosia gives a high chance of winning for some options then it's also going to give a higher chance of escape for a wider variety of options, and I doubt the contents of the power will (or possibly even Can) be left up to a roll (so it's not like we're going to get a power that is completely or even nearly inapplicable.).
 
Adhoc vote count started by Birdsie on Dec 8, 2021 at 7:55 PM, finished with 22 posts and 17 votes.
Given the massive relevance of Ambrosia to this vote, here are your current statistics:

Ambrosia Multiplier is 2.2x
Ambrosia Income is .5 Ambrosia.
And that, in brutto, gives you around 1.1 Ambrosia to work with, on top of the 3.1 you already have.

We'll do the final tally sometime this Friday or maybe on the weekend, depending on circumstances - I'll be generous and give you as much time to consider the wisdom of your decisions as I can without it becoming too forgiving.
 
Dude, I don't even have any idea what Ambrosia is, much less the things it lets us buy seemingly at random.
I'll add that in many ways, this quest comes from the same "genre" as ones that Rihaku writes (like current A Simple Transaction I). Colored options, participation points in various names (be it Beyond Points, Arete or Ambrosia), insane escalation of PC and their enemies (at least post-Maiden it truly became that way), high risk from various over-powered enemies, plentiful build votes, even the 7-12-25 prices which keep popping up. Also, this isn't his first quest that comes from this "genre", either.
So many of us just go with it, as it's intuitively understandable, but it can throw new people for a loop.
anyone have a theory about how Hopeless And Tireless Maiden Prayer actually works?
I am going to preface this theory by a more thematic guess- Birdsie made a number of biblical/Christian references previously, and one of the alternatives to this quest was a priest quest. So it's a good guess to consider it a potential inspiration, even if only a minor/subconscious one.

Fundamentally, I believe it's a prayer with all that implies. A supplication to God that is the Maiden, not unlike a man going on a pilgrimage to a holy place to ask for a cure for his daughter that was deemed doomed to die by doctors, or a monk locking themselves in their room to do nothing but pray for the famine that struck his homeland to pass quickly.
It's hopeless in giving up on earthly solutions to the problem at hand, and it's tireless in dedication Zane would display here, continuing to pray even after first (and second) prayer fails. For there is no true power that doesn't comes from God, and no hope that doesn't come from God (which I say more as a reference rather than a statement- Maiden most likely isn't the strongest being around).

And just like Christians at Baptism receive 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit, to allow them to fulfill their mission for the Church, so did Zane receive his immense gifts to fulfill the mission for the Maiden (and in both, the person in question is drenched in water).
In this way, this prayer is an earnest request for additional gifts in order to fulfill his purpose, entrusting his fate in hands of the Maiden, showing his faith in Her.

If this vote wins, we shall see whether She grants him this miracle.
 
[X] Hopeless and Tireless Maiden Prayer [All Ambrosia]

Fuck it. Expect a musical theme for this fight.
 
This isn't particularly an argument in favor of Hopeless and Tireless Maiden Prayer, but I am scrupulously fair and also it gives me more things to say so I'll relay this information: The form of game continuation for the two options where Zane Almost Certainly Dies is that Zane gets to rise after death a ghost. Judging by the form of the blurbs, he Probably still has his Knight Arm afterwards if nothing happens to it in the process. I don't think this is something that happens to everyone in Godcard, Zane would be a special case in that regard; and for some reason, picking Hopeless And Tireless Maiden Prayer prevents it. So... make of that what you all will preferably in a manner containing lots of discussion.
 
Well, that gives me hope then. New Hope of Zane becoming a Force Ghost.
I mean, let's say we get to 5 Ambrosia. Doable, I guess. That means we'll get, what? 15% chance of near-victory first, then 20% chance of escape, then 25% chance of maybe-escape (and that's assuming the Ambrosia works for subsequent rolls as well!).
So what's the chance of any victory/survival chance at all?
1 - (0.85 * 0.8 * 0.75) = 0.49
Less than a coinflip of ANYTHING.

Sorry, Maiden, but Zane is not applying for a Confirmation of being your Saint.
[X] Fly Up Like Booming Thunder
 
1 - (0.85 * 0.8 * 0.75) = 0.49
Less than a coinflip of ANYTHING.
actually, it's slightly more than a coinflip of anything there. the thing you have slightly less than a coin-flip for is nothing, since you multiplied all the nothing-chances together and then subtracted them from one.
granted the difference is a whopping 0.02 but in verbal terms it's the difference of a whole word from 'less' to 'more'.

On the force ghost topic, I'm not going to vote for it, but if I Were voting for one of the two I'd pick 'fall down til the end' because Fly Up will reconfigure the knight-arm into who-knows-what and that could effectively remove it from Ghost!Zanes ability to usefully use for some time.
 
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There may be a chance the Maiden will try to fuck us over in the long run. She is described as 'Adversarial' towards the Lord of Seasons and Arcadia, so there may be a chance that - while she is helping us save Earth from the Hell Invasion - she will try to betray us in some way. Mind you, it's an argument I'm picking out of the air, built upon a few sentences said by Birdsie in the Discord, so... maybe we can pull something out of it and prepare, just in case.

EDIT: Unlimited Fanwork... Works!


View: https://soundcloud.com/gabrygabra97/the-mangler?si=c0f0d11237ab4601a97f0ba6b4be4c5e&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
 
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Though it's possible, I don't think that's reason enough to believe it. She's adversarial to the Lord of Seasons and Arcadia, but we aren't them. There is a reason she's against them, as well- she's trying to 'turn back heavens wheel' while within it, which naturally means she's opposing the forces of Stagnation or Acceleration for heavens metaphorical wheel.
Zane is not one of those forces, though, and I don't think there's a probable case within the scope of the quest where his actions become notably relevant on that level. I'm also dubious we'd be able to do much if she betrayed us- She's the, to my understanding, leader of several Knight-Champions, at least one of whom is powerful enough that he could seriously harm Turenval (under favorable conditions.), so there is no way whatsoever we'd be able to oppose her with only Godcard-based power. Hell is offering more power than her, but I, ah, rather doubt that the Maiden is worse than Literally Hell morally speaking. So even if we want to oppose her and even with her being able to turn off the Knight Arm at-will, we'd Still be better off staying on her side for now and expanding our Knight Arm into a direction which grants non-arm empowermentlike an invocation that turns Food Into Power we have like 2 orders of magnitude of multiplier to that or something come on! at a later opportunity.

Invocation Idea: A Lotus is a Life (Cultivation)
A Lotus Is A Life(Cultivation)
The whole of your being is the aspect of every heart, the resounding advance of life itself. And it Is.
Originally formulated in the aspect of an unmerged Knight Arm, this Invocation responds strangely to the subsequent shift in nature, but it remains useful, albeit more unwieldy. Whatever the form, the effect is constant. It is a lifeline, a lichs phylactery that doesn't exist. It is more than a return to health, however. The Aspirant will be resurrected somewhere new, apart from the dangers that previously threatened them. there is no grace period, but one effectively forms by avoidance of any place where true threat could occur swiftly. The Life that the Knight-Aspirant obtains is free of complications- although it does not arouse the suspicions of surprising arrival(any possibility thereof is passively mitigated by the aftereffects of the Invocation, and areas capable of resisting are avoided), nor does it have family or friends. It is not wealthy, but nor is it poor; it impresses onto the Knight-Aspirant no great talents, but also no great failings. it is simply... a life, albeit assuredly a New life- be it scent or mannerism, the Aspirant will not be tied to their old identity except by their own willing deactivation.

Of course, an effect so powerful comes at great cost. The Invocation is triggered only by the loss of the Aspirants Life, so in order to provide them a new life in their place, one must be procured- and a Lotus is a Life. Using this Invocation seals the Knight Arm's Flower form. This seal is not permanent, and can be removed in several ways, but until it is removed the Flower form is unusable; this does not increase the power of the Teko form. After the fusion of the Flower and Teko forms, the seal instead manifests through the death and withering of the plant life of the Knight Arm. this makes it substantially weaker materially, and weakens or even seals any Invocation pragmatically based on that plant life; for instance, A Seed is a Strike would no longer produce Seeds.
The Seal can be removed by metaphorically or literally creating a lotus. However, mundane lotus will obviously not suffice. Although the degree of stringency will reduce as the Invocation is mastered, at base a Lotus worthy of lifting the seal would need to be a powerful reagent, sufficiently so that if its powers were pointed in that direction it could achieve this Invocations effect independently. This is, for obvious reasons, very difficult to do when all Plant-based invocations are attenuated or sealed. To make matters worse, after a Lotus has been produced in a given manner, the next repetition is made moderately more difficult. This is all the clearer for the second method- Metaphorically creating a Lotus. In the vein of A Flower Is A Fist, A Seed Is A Strike, and A Stem Is An Arm, creating the structure of a Lotus metaphorically through Invocations is another way to lift the seal. Once, this can be done simply by creating the appropriate invocations(forming a conceptual metastructure through their interplay which releases the seal at the price of its coherence), but repeating the process would require increasing levels of either detail or potency to the metaphorical lotus for it to qualify, be that in the form of requiring Invocation Mastery or further precise sub-invocations. Like the first method, this will be very difficult if any of the Lotus Invocations have been Sealed in the merged form of the Knight Arm, though it is still possible to master them indirectly, such as through Aspiring Knight Meditation- and one would hope not to die so commonly that this would be terribly relevant.

Not as polished as I'd like(especially the shift in the Invocation from fusing the Knight Arm- I wrote it 'responded strangely' before deciding how and then didn't think of anything actually strange enough.) and much wordier than the others, but I'm not sure where to cut down off the top of my head and the times are pressing.
 
As of right now, you have an Ambrosia Modifier of 2.5x, and a raw income of 1.2 Ambrosia (pre-modifier.) Altogether, that means you've got 6.1 Ambrosia, brutto.

In order to, perchance, stimulate discussion and give you one last burst of opportunity to grind, I will post a worldbuilding Interlude in a few (1-2 hours.) A couple of hours after that, once the discussion (assuming there is any,) slows down, I will do the final tally.
 
Fundamentally, the Hopeless Maiden Prayer is choosing to gamble with damning the entire world. If it fails, the world will be made categorically, undeniably worse for Zane Li Black for having been in it, as far as we know. Maybe we'll get lucky and the Maiden will avenge us, even if she would not save us. But if she doesn't, this world is well and truly doomed to the depredations of Hell. At least as a demon or a ghost, we'd have a chance to turn things around.
 
EDIT: Unlimited Fanwork... Works!
[music I can't select to quote]
Uh... that sure is a song, but I don't really see how it's remotely Mangler-y. If I were to describe the character+context it seems to fit, I'd say... Ominous Dark Lord Figure Pre-Fight theme into The Dark Lord Self-Destructs While Gloating into Melancholic But Successful Aftermath Or Maybe All Hope Is Lost, like if instead of Zane getting assassinated by the Mangler, he got assassinated by a similarly-powerful person who had the Godcard of... I dunno, some evil-overlord-lich(I just spent 10 minutes looking for a good specific example so that's all you're getting.) but then the person ate an energy field larger than his head for a pre-fight powerup and exploded while he was gloating, but also this explosion destroyed several buildings and/or the lichness means he'll be back eventually. Or possibly he then rises from the wreckage having fused with death itself and become more powerful than we could possibly imagine.
doomed to the depredations of Hell. At least as a demon
I... don't think the archdemon/devils we would subsequently owe our soul to would let us stop hell. Unless we're getting to shop around for demons which specifically are against this particular invasion for political or bureaucratic reasons.
(As is implied by my not saying anything about the Ghost outcome, I do agree that it's much more probable we'd be able to do something as a ghost.
Assuming our last act before becoming a ghost isn't 'retune our powerset for this specific case and then blow the whole thing up'.)
 
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Interlude: Occult
This Interlude contains Nazism - although not its glorification. It also, coincidentally, contains murder and Satanism.

---

Occult

October 31st, 1942 undisclosed location south of Oslo


"Good evening to you, my friends. As we are now assembled, let us begin."

There was a brief scrape and a rain of sparks as a friction stick was ignited against a patch of sandpaper, then used to light a candle in the center of the round table.

There was darkness in the airy chamber around them, a translucent wind blowing the curtains of the castle their divisions had taken as its brief residence for the purpose of this gathering.

"As you may know, tonight we have gathered together on the night of Hel's Feast in order to evoke one of the venerable vaettir slumbering within the soils of this ancestral land. Since not all of us know each other and we had to come together on… sadly short notice, I shall do the honors of making the introductions, so that we may be acquainted." And like that, Oberführer Rauff launched himself joyfully into describing the deeds of the people seated at the table.

Joseph had been skeptical and uneager to participate to start with, but the sudden realization he'd be forced to sit here through a bunch of pointless monologue about people he cared nothing for made him tap his finger impatiently against the table's edge, lips creased into a frown.

"We have with us, Standartenführer Bernhard Becker, a renowned member of both the Waffen-SS and Ahnenerbe, known for his contributions on the expedition to Poland where he aided in the recovery of the thirty-two pieces of the Veit Stoss altar and well-known participant in the eine Gruppe and the establishment of the Reichskommissariat Norwegen. It's thanks to his largesse as our host that we may gather here tonight. We thank you."

A few polite claps. Joseph decided to join in, if only to not appear disrespectful.

"We have the respected and brilliant Oberst Kurt von Hegener, a Heer leader whose unmatched bravery, sheer ingenuity, and countless contributions to strategy were essential in retaking control of the Rhineland, as well as our noble regime's invasion of France. A true warrior and a good friend."

More clapping; Joseph unexcitedly went along.

"And furthermore, we have..."

And then he kept going like that, for what felt like dull hours, every passing minute comparable to a blow from a spade to the back of the head. There were all sorts of people at the wide table, and Joseph knew this much already - it was a waste of time to listen.

There were esteemed German scientists and brilliant professors who arrived from far-off universities. There were noble counts - men of wealth and taste who supported racial ideology. And there were researchers from the Ahnenerbe think tank; members of the Geheime Staatspolizei and Kriminalpolizei; commanding officers of the Waffen-SS, particularly respected and important members of the Allgemeine-SS, a few commanders from the Wehrmacht who seemed to feel entirely inadequate with being seated at a table with a bunch of Schutz-Staffel members. Even a few of the sick vindictive fucks from the Death's Head Division. And the worst part was, maybe, that he already knew most of them - if not in a personal fashion, then either as casual acquaintances or by the grapevine of distant rumors.

There were a few women present, surprisingly; for the most part, wives or close family members of those men present. Around thirty people in total seated around the table, all of whom deserved - in Oberführer Rauff's frankly all too optimistic opinion - an introduction of their own.

It was the point where Joseph's opinion diverged. He was proud to call himself German - prouder still to openly call himself an occultist in the face of the ridicule he regularly faced as a result. He'd never once needed 'people' or 'help' to elevate himself. He'd arrived at the point where he stood almost exclusively by working harder than other people and convincing those lazy fat bastards who called himself his superiors that he was almost indispensably competent; a necessary hire. And yet, he weathered the worst of it for his attitude, for his refusal to intermingle with the societal expectations of polite company, and he hated them all for it, deep down - he wished for nothing more than to already master his arcane powers and make them regret every word they'd ever said about him.

At this point, he was fully committed to making that his life's one and only task - even at the cost of his own soul, he wanted to see as the skeptics ate their own words and choked on their blood. He despised them more than he valued himself, and he valued himself more than everything else other than his spite.

"And finally, we have," he paused as his eyes fell on Joseph, "my dear and welcome friend, Obersturmführer Joseph Maximillian von Herff of the Übernatürlich-SS."

He waved a hand as the clapping turned in his direction. Among the introductions so far, this one was maybe the curtest, leaving a few people at the table curious as to why he'd been left in the cold, in such a manner.

One of the ladies at the table spoke, the wife of Hauptmann Hössler. She was a petite little woman, with pretty blue eyes like sapphires that sparkled even in the darkness. Even without any of the witchcraft and supernatural powers that some of his contemporaries attributed to him, Joseph could see her past, present, and future unwinding in front of his eyes like a book open with eye-wateringly bright text - the benefit of political experience. He used to make a game of it, in his conversations with von Horstenau: picking a random person in the room and making guesses as to who they were.

As for the woman, she'd been married off to Hössler as a trophy wife and nothing more, for the dowry, and to make sure his children had blue eyes and blonde hair. There was probably nothing more to it. She didn't contribute much - very much the contemptuous archetype of the innocent housewife, here to support her husband in all endeavors, emotionally and in other less - and maybe to some, more - obvious ways. Her question, however, was piercingly irritating. It was worded so genuinely, too, that he was forced to wonder if maybe she knew it'd irritate him, but she also played the game.

"You and the Oberführer work together?"

"Something like that," Joseph replied, not letting his acrid bitterness show in his wide-toothed smile. "He proved, I suppose, to be more enlightened than me."

"Ah, don't be crass, Joseph," said Rauff with a smirk of his own. "I'm sure you're next in line for the promotion. Our division needs more skilled commanders anyhow."

"Of course, of course," Joseph said, blowing him off gently. If they'd been in private, he would've felt more secure in blowing him off more firmly.

"And the reason you've gathered us here, I suppose, is related to your division's work," said Gideon, one of the Death's Head members. There was some coy laughter from his fellows at his words, and a few cracked smiles from the other people at the table. Even in their mutual rivalry, both Rauff and Joseph could agree on one thing - hatred of the skeptics, the blind fools, too enamored with the temporal world around them to understand.

However, where Rauff preferred to cajole and convince the morons to work together with them, Joseph detested them and would sooner rely on his own strength - it was the difference between them; a supplicant and a master of his own fate, carving apart the lines of the world with his will to power, as Nietsche's often-misunderstood writings postulated. It was sad, then, that Joseph was the one who lost a majority of the time in the end of their games. It was not how the world was supposed to be, and as acrimonious as he felt about it, there wasn't much he could do but sit and take it for now.

"I assure you this is no mere joke, no child's play," Rauff said.

"Our work is important," Joseph stepped in to support his rival's words - a rare but necessary occurrence when in a room with this many uninitiated outsiders. This many fucking idiots.

"Indeed," Rauff continued. "Although, rather understandably, the supernatural is poorly understood and documented, we have acquired demonstrable results in our efforts, as many of you know. It is a science no more and no less valid than the likes of physics and mathematics, and we know frighteningly little of it! It's what makes it all the more important to pursue its constant advancement. Every step of progress we make is critical, for it accelerates us ever closer to running forward and plumbing the secrets of the world. And once those secrets - those mysteries that dance in the night's sky are ours - we may very well find that we already have the world in our grasp."

"It's sad, then," Gideon replied, taking hold of his cup, "that you do not have more funding, hm?" He took a sip of wine, smiling as he did.

"At least we do something with the money we do get," Joseph said as the fucker drank his fill, feeling vindictive hatred for this arrogant imbecile. "We don't simply throw it into the mud to invent new ways of applying the Final Solution and on Berlinian whores." Gideon promptly started to choke on his wine.

There were gasps. There was some outrage, and Rauff was fast to chastise Joseph for his words openly but was also quick to let the matter go.

At least, despite their rivalry, both men understood their position in the ranks of the SS. The so-called 'Paranormal Division' was, to other people, a waste of funds at worst, and a polite joke at best - a way for grown men to play with pseudo-spiritualism and pseudo-occultism like teenage boys. It was fortunate they'd be proven wrong, and soon.

It didn't change the fact that Rauff deserved to be shot for being a conformist weakling, but at least, Joseph could admit he deserved to be shot last. An intelligent conformist was intelligent still.

"I must say the ritual we'll be attempting tonight is… ah, complex," Rauff attempted to explain, a smile on his face. "It necessitates the presence of many esteemed individuals with positions of authority in order to provide it the vital energy it requires to anchor its binding elements. I won't bore you with the details, but as it happens - and as the letters that I had sent already said - I would request your full cooperation with the ritual, putting skepticism aside that we may work together and prove to you that the fruits of your labor are not to be scoffed at."

There was some silence - a few appraising eyebrows, not asking any questions, but silently judging. It was funny that Rauff was the one drawing most of the contempt and skepticism for once.

"Now, let us begin. May we please move the table to the side?"

There was some brief stumbling and clattering as people stood from their chairs, and then a collaborative effort to push the furniture to the corners and sides of the room. It created a clear space in the middle, around twenty square meters with which to work. It was more than sufficient - they'd practiced for it.

Oberführer Rauff, Joseph, and a few of their lower-ranking men proceeded to draw out a specific arrangement of Nordic runes on the floor, in a specific spatial organization, within circles and other geometric shapes, while chanting softly. A majority of the esteemed German officials in the room seem amused, doubtful; a few were virtually on the edge of laughter; Joseph felt like a clown, and yet, also felt a kind of vindictive glee at knowing how woefully wrong he'd prove them in but a few moments.

At last, the runic array was complete - after some odd ten or fifteen minutes of minor corrections, adjustments, and measurements.

It was by far the most complex of workings they'd ever managed to put together - the result of thousands of hours spent on tireless research and trial-and-error which they knew would yield a ritual that could prove the Paranormal Division was an asset.

Of course, Rauff had barely contributed any research of actual worth, preferring to sit on his own ass for the majority of the time and steal Joseph's hard-earned credit - what he didn't know was that Joseph had sneakily drawn in a few extra runes near the end of the process. His heart raced as he did, and as he stepped back, he looked around frantically to make sure that neither Rauff nor the junior occultists noticed his action; if they did, his little plan would likely end right there.

However, they didn't, and the ritual continued.

"And now, please, follow my instructions," Rauff said.

All the officials present joined their hands and chanted together under Rauff's conduction, using a specific cipher of Nordic phrases and words. Joseph could see their actual thoughts written plainly on their faces - most of them believed this was utterly ridiculous. A few had refused to participate and were now laughing.

Eventually, as doubts reached their peak and people start shaking their heads and leaving the circle, Joseph braced himself, feeling his heartbeat. There was a flash of light and a sudden wind that closed every window in the room and puts out every candle. There was modest panic, people shuffling around and moving, yelling.

All according to plan so far, but he couldn't help but be nervous. His actions were calculated, yes, but this he'd never done before. It was like playing around with mathematics when you didn't fully know the formula - it could give a final result that wasn't exactly favorable.

He steeled himself, nonetheless. He prepared himself for the worst. It was his spite winning over his importance that led to his decision to alter the ritual, and he feared now that he might regret it, but he kept himself still and hard nonetheless. He wouldn't go out regretting it, no matter what.

Someone managed to light a candle.

"Rauff! What happened?"

"What was that flash of light?" Becker requested with surprisingly polite tones.

"Due to a failure to adhere to ritual, the vaettir was summoned improperly," Rauff said.

"I expected as much," Joseph said. "I knew that no one would take this procedure seriously. However, this was merely-"

"A cheap trick," a skeptical professor cut in. "A flash of light? A breeze? Please. It'd be idiotically simple to do that with some chemical mixture. As you drew the circle, you surely prepared a chemical concoction in the center - one that we failed to see due to the darkness, and that detonated as soon as people started leaving in ridicule. Is this really the power of the Übernatürlich-SS, the vaunted pride of the Paranormal Divison, the fruit of your labor, and the reason that you wasted all of our time in requesting our attendance? I feel... I feel as if this is a joke in poor taste! I feel insulted that I had been invited to participate in something this ridiculous!"

Another discussion erupted, close to being an argument of feverish and heated opinions. It even seemed like a few of the SS commanders might go to blows for a moment with the Wehrmacht staff, but this was soon interrupted as the door clattered open, and then subsequently closed on its own. There was a brief noise as it locked.

And then, silence, for a good five seconds. All of the people in the room stared in that direction - the closing had been near-instant, but everyone saw as the door locked itself. It was possible to see even in the relative umbrage of the room, lit only by a few candles, even for people who stood near the back.

It was further evidence in the Paranormal Division's ritual - most of them realized - or maybe a further trick?

"Are you still doubtful, Mr. Diethard?" Rauff asked with vague smugness.

"A string," the same professor from earlier declared, voice frightened - it wasn't as cocksure as before, but held a deep resolve, as if he were trying to convince himself as much as the others. "It was a string, pulling the door, and, uhm... another string was in the lock."

"Not a string," Joseph answered with a frown. "A spirit."

After a moment's wait, Rauff walked into the middle of the room, closer to the circle, and looked around as if in search of something, muttering spells in a few noble languages. It didn't produce any effect to his confusion - because this wasn't a vaettir, even one whose summoning was botched.

It was something else, as a result of Joseph's alteration to the ritual. His feet were uneasy; he shifted constantly, a small mote of fearful regret dancing in his chest like an ember near a fireplace. He didn't let it dominate his mind, however - he was the master of himself.

"Are you one of the vaettir, walking here among us?" Rauff asked promptly, returning back to German, voice carrying a note of reverent anxiety. He was pale in the face despite his earlier smugness, he'd noticed the spirit's unnatural behavior, and that was enough to tip him off.

This wasn't an experiment or prototype - they'd done this ritual a dozen times before, tested in laboratory conditions, and learned to predict its outcomes. It was meant to be a way of proving their labor's possible effects, a way to curry funding…

And yet, Rauff now realized that something was different.

A few seconds later, a voice whispered into their ears. It took a second for people to realize it came from nowhere and everywhere at once.

"I am. Who called me here?"

Once they realized, there was screaming, moving, pushing - a mad dash to go for the door.

As one of the Wehrmacht officers attempted to open it, he found it didn't budge. He yelled out that the door was locked, and then started to attempt to kick it down, but Joseph stopped him and pulled him away. "Calm yourself! Do you want to offend an ancestral spirit?"

It wasn't a fucking ancestral spirit, and he knew that, but now that it was here, he needed to make himself appear as useful as possible - servile - and to keep as many people in the room as possible.

There was a sudden pause, as many people realized they were stuck in a bad situation.

"We did," Rauff answered, finally, after several moments of nervous silence. "Are you keeping the door closed? Please, open it."

"It'd be improper to leave," Joseph hissed at him. "It'd be rude."

"I will not," said the spirit.

It revealed itself, then - a figure like the flakes of dust in a sunbeam, transient and untouchable. A spirit of wind, most of them, especially Rauff would've thought - for this, Joseph used one of his lesser incantations, letting himself soak in the aura of feelings and emotions circling the space around him. He drank in the fear with satisfaction, feeling contended that he'd finally proven them wrong in the end. There was one thing left to do, however, but that could wait - it'd resolve itself without his intervention.

Everyone in the room stared for a moment, as the creature stepped forward, out of the circle - an impossible deed for the circle they'd drawn. At last, Rauff breathed in as he realized it wasn't a vaettir.

It moved a bit closer to Rauff, a few steps - making the man back away in sudden alarm and realization that he was screwed. It opened its mouth to reveal opaque white and red teeth, like ivory stained with blood. It grinned at them, head swiveling around the room in a whimsical manner.

"My God," someone whispered. There were some thuds in the room, but Joseph was focused on the entity in front of him - on the wicked spirit.

"Fear not, little mortals. I can sense a great potential in you. Most of you hold some kind of deeply tethered darkness in your heart. You shall be great."

"Great?" Joseph asked. Contrary to most people in the room, he was calm - he controlled his own breathing, looking at the entity in front of himself with something that was almost like appreciation as he understood how much control it held over the situation. It appreciated his expression and emotions in return, favoring him with a grin.

"Most of the people in this room are cruel but talented," said the entity, responding to his question. "I can make great use of your souls, in various ways. Some of you as food, some of you as soldiers, a few as servants… And those of you I handpick shall be great, far beyond your current, fleeting imagination."

As the being spoke, Rauff was looking around the room and noticed one of the windows was open. There would've been bushes right below. As he stepped in the open window's direction, it closed itself remotely.

"None of that, mortal. We're friends," the entity said.

"I exorcise you," Rauff said, in Latin, and then continued the chant, "Every impure spirit, every Satanic power-"

He started to choke, hand desperately pawing at his own throat as he fell down onto his knees. A few seconds later, Rauff was dead, lying on the floor.

"You aren't a priest, mortal. You are a waste of potential. I'd thought that I might have two apprentices as I depart this wretched Earth. Now, I realize that I will only have one, won't I? How sad."

The demon smiled at him, at Joseph, and then looked the other corpses in the room, all of them cut down to the bone as if they'd been dipped into a pool filled with living, writhing razorblades for several hours. Joseph realized they'd been dead since the moment that someone spoke the name of god in the entity's presence.

All of them save Joseph and Rauff, the latter of whom died when he attempted to exorcise the entity they'd unwittingly called into the world.

It didn't want his torment, he realized, and instantly, his heart became lighter because it meant his gamble had paid off. It wanted his service - exactly as planned.

As if happy with the realization, the demon turned in order to address him, and came more fully into their reality - revealing itself as a wicked apparatus of sharp wrought iron barbs smashed together into a form reminiscent of a humanoid porcupine, its hairs segmented and sharpened like miniature chopping swords. Its eyes were pits into the unfathomably deep void; darker than starless midnight. Its claws were rusted and chipped, as if through heavy overuse. Its smile was made from needles of steel, as sharp and narrow as those of syringes, cutting into its gums of thin bronze.

"I am Baharot, the Blade of Cruel Sadness. And from now on, should you choose to accept my patronage, I am your new master, Joseph Maximillian von Herff. None of the mortals of this Earth know of this yet, but in the near future, this world shall bring Hell's entire attention onto itself, and Hell will send forth its paragons and tempter lords to conquer it and harvest its souls. Should you choose to accept me as your master, I will make you the leader of its would-be conquerors, and bestow you with power far beyond your feeble magic. You know nothing of sorcery yet - I will teach you its true signs."

"And if I refuse?" Some idiotic part of him asked itself that, and that unspoken question translated into spoken words a moment later. He was curious, but the demon didn't appear to mind such a hypothetical scenario.

It smiled. "Then I can make use of you in other ways, but I don't think you will. After all, you are exactly like me."

"And that would be?" He steeled himself.

It had been smiling already, but its smile broadened then - unnatural and wide, oddly symmetrical in a way that set his heart quivering in fear at its uncanniness. He didn't break externally, however - it wasn't like him to allow a creature of darkness or ghost to scare him. He would've never signed up with the Paranormal Division if that had been the case. He was Joseph Maximillian von Herff, a man who'd carved his own destiny from nothing, who'd mastered the secrets of terrestrial magic and summoned a demon onto the mortal Earth, and was then offered a deal as it desired to acquire his greatness in the form of a competent servant - all of his own doing and free will, as a part of his own plan to become something greater and more powerful even when the structure around him refused to let him ascend to his rightful place.

It confirmed as much in its reply.

"Isn't it obvious? We're pragmatists, and we both know that we're far better than our supposed..." it looked down at Rauff, sneering, "betters. I know it wasn't an accident that I was summoned here, Mr. Herff - I know you altered the spell when your half-witted rival wasn't looking. It's his loss, to be so blind and underestimate you."

"I suppose that is true," Joseph admitted finally. "Although I didn't expect you to kill so many people. I didn't believe that you'd have so much power."

"And that ought to make your answer to my offer all the clearer, hm?"

He contemplated its words for a time. It was sufficient to mull it over for several seconds - if he didn't accept, he'd simply die here, and his soul would be fed to their overlords anyway. And he'd summoned it here, in the hopes it would offer a pact, one almost exactly like this, anyhow.

It was better to serve in Hell than to fall into oblivion. And it was better to become a part of the abyss than stare it down forever without approaching and let it stare back.

"I suppose we are," Joseph finally surmised. He shrugged his shoulders and smiled back. "I accept."
 
alright I'm convinced. Clearly, Hell is actually the good guys
Square Bracket Ecks Square Bracket Defiance

more seriously, this supports something else I was going to say but didn't- In universe, did Zanes presence even affect Hells invasion? Baharot doesn't sound like a time traveler- though he might be- so that he knew this would happen... well, suggests it's not down to one person who hadn't even been born. If so, Zane didn't make things worse by living, probably, even if he fails the prayer.
 
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