- Location
- Wisconsin
Doesn't the O&S fight also give you two rewards as long as you kill Ornstein last given he'll drop the leo ring?
Accursed Citrine - Yet another Dark Soul/Madoka Magica Crossover
- Thread starter AClassyBunny
- Start date
- Fantasy Action
True, though in that case it's both completing the set for the Four Knights' rings and rewarding you for taking the harder option, so I can see why it'd be stretched there.
Ramblings about the Dark
- Location
- The Land of Giant Bush Bunnies
I'd say Hollowing isn't so much solely a human trait as much as it is a decline of how much power of the Flame a person has.
While that does mean humans are naturally the most common to experience Hollowing, Gwyn and the Nameless King both appear very much Hollow. Gwyn had sacrificed pretty much his entire Flame-based soul to rekindle the First Flame, leaving nothing but the empty hollow husk you face in the Kiln.
The Nameless King, if you accept the theory that he's Gwyn's firstborn, had his divine status stripped. Presumedly, this consists of more than just Gwyn telling him he's not a big boy anymore and kicking him out, and in some way involves stripping him of his power - which would've come either directly from the First Flame or indirectly through Gwyn.
You could even pose the arguement that Ornstein (if it's actually him and not a copycat) in DS2 has Dark magic instead of lightning because he abandon his position as a divine knight in a similar manner that the NK was stripped of his divinity. At the same time, it's also possible it had been so long that his own memories of his old power has faded and been influenced by the more Darkness-focused beliefs surrounding him.
Point being, I think Hollowing is more the absence of the power of the Flame, which can be seen as almost reverting back to before the Flame was discovered.
Technically, the husks that found the First Flame were still in some way alive. It's possible that they didn't so much gain souls from the Flame, as much as their tiny scraps of existance gained enough power to actually be something recognisable as a soul.
Was just a random thought I just had, didn't really put much thought into it.
The Darkness is a form of the Flame's power, specifically the emotion and thought of everything, especially humans. Because of this, it's not merely horrors and madness that must be feared, but also joys and comforts to be embraced. Hollowing isn't actually a result of Darkness, but instead the total lack of any of the Flame's forms of power.
I see the Dark as not so much an opposite to the Flame, but just another form of its power. Kind of...
Darkness can only exist when there is light, as it came to be thanks to the power of the First Flame. The Dark Soul was found within the flame and therefore must have some degree of similarities to Gwyn's sunlight and Izalith's Chaos, but it also seems to hold a lot in common with the empty state that preceeded discovery of the Flame. This may be because the Dark Soul was supposedly the weakest of the four souls found and therefore the similarities are solely due to the lack of enough power to fully break from the past state.
But then, Hollowing isn't nessessarily a result of Darkness, as using Humanity - which is a fragment of darkness - reverses Hollowing.
The Dark Sign seems to be a requirement to go Hollow. Said Dark Sign is likely a means of draining a person of the Darkness created by Gwyn or in his name to keep Humanity weak and tame.
So, the Dark Sign, which is made to drain someone of Darkness, results in Hollowing and the only way to reverse Hollowing is to use a Humanity, what does that mean? I think Humanity is just another form of the power of the First Flame and Hollowing is the absence of not just light, but also Darkness.
It's also interesting to note that, from what I can remember, there aren't actually any Hollows in the Abyss-consumed Oolacile. Of course, the creatures people have turned into there are far from in the best state. However, the Abyss in Dark Souls 1 is clearly stated to be driven into a frenzy by Manus's own frenzy, which contradicts the "gentle" state that the Abyss/Darkness is in in Dark Souls 2. This seems to imply the Abyss/Darkness is heavily influenced by human emotions and, as a result, thought.
In Dark Souls 1, it was feared due to the propaganda of Gwyn and the Way of White, and a frenzying madness in the DLC from the mental state of Manus.
In Dark Souls 2, people seem to have forgotten a lot of that fear (at least in Drangleic) and even worship it to some extent, resulting in the Abyss/Darkness being somewhat calm and gentle.
Then, in Dark Souls 3, you see the Darkness at its worst in the Ringed City where all of Gwyn's schemes and manipulations to supress the Darkness of humanity has been focused tenfold. It's a vile filth that infects everything in the city in the same way the people who lived there were made to believe it to be. Midir was made to consume the Darkness, assuming it to be an evil. It's also something to note that Midir is (from what I'm aware) a true dragon, and therefore likely isn't a good natural match with the Darkness he's consuming (and his soul was gained by the Darkness he consumed in a more violent way than the original gods obtained their's through).
With all this in mind, it might be interesting to look at the power of the First Flame itself. It didn't just grant powerful souls to the original four, but rewrote the very laws of reality.
Heat and cold, life and death, light and dark.
From these new laws, the four forms of power came into existance:
Gwyn's light and warmth - his glorious sunlight - stood for the order that came to rule the world's new reality.
Izalith's light and warmth - her uncontrollable Chaos - stood for the brilliant disorder and randomness that can be found in nature.
Nito's death and cold - his gentle, accepting death - stood for the inevitability that everything in this new world - be it men and gods, plants and beast, beliefs and civilisations - will eventually die.
Finally, the Pygmy's dark - his cold, yet seemingly gentle abyss - stood for the deep madness of thought and emotion. Everything from joy to grief, love to hate, dedication and insanity.
Another aspect that gives credit to the Darkness being the embodiment of emotion and thought is that the four Sisters of Dark that are seen in Dark Souls 2.
Nashandra embodied want and desire - both the grandures and corruptions that it brings.
Elana embodied wrath - both the uncontrolled anger of fury and the focused hatred of those who threaten oneself and one's people.
Nadalia embodied loneliness and the craving for affection - both the all-consuming and toxic obsession and the gentle comfort that love and care brings.
Alsanna embodied fear and sorrow, for she was the weakest of the sisters - both the paralysing fear of uncertainly and the strength and determination from seeking to avoid further sorrow.
The fragments of Manus, and therefore the Darkness itself, doesn't just represent the bad, but also the good that can come from any emotion. There is no such thing as truely evil, only the corrupting and uncontrollability of being overwhelmed by something.
This ended up being just one massive ramble that took me hours to write. It was mostly me just randomly thinking things that are somewhat related to the topic/question and throwing them out there, so it's probably not the best.
Darkness can only exist when there is light, as it came to be thanks to the power of the First Flame. The Dark Soul was found within the flame and therefore must have some degree of similarities to Gwyn's sunlight and Izalith's Chaos, but it also seems to hold a lot in common with the empty state that preceeded discovery of the Flame. This may be because the Dark Soul was supposedly the weakest of the four souls found and therefore the similarities are solely due to the lack of enough power to fully break from the past state.
But then, Hollowing isn't nessessarily a result of Darkness, as using Humanity - which is a fragment of darkness - reverses Hollowing.
The Dark Sign seems to be a requirement to go Hollow. Said Dark Sign is likely a means of draining a person of the Darkness created by Gwyn or in his name to keep Humanity weak and tame.
So, the Dark Sign, which is made to drain someone of Darkness, results in Hollowing and the only way to reverse Hollowing is to use a Humanity, what does that mean? I think Humanity is just another form of the power of the First Flame and Hollowing is the absence of not just light, but also Darkness.
It's also interesting to note that, from what I can remember, there aren't actually any Hollows in the Abyss-consumed Oolacile. Of course, the creatures people have turned into there are far from in the best state. However, the Abyss in Dark Souls 1 is clearly stated to be driven into a frenzy by Manus's own frenzy, which contradicts the "gentle" state that the Abyss/Darkness is in in Dark Souls 2. This seems to imply the Abyss/Darkness is heavily influenced by human emotions and, as a result, thought.
In Dark Souls 1, it was feared due to the propaganda of Gwyn and the Way of White, and a frenzying madness in the DLC from the mental state of Manus.
In Dark Souls 2, people seem to have forgotten a lot of that fear (at least in Drangleic) and even worship it to some extent, resulting in the Abyss/Darkness being somewhat calm and gentle.
Then, in Dark Souls 3, you see the Darkness at its worst in the Ringed City where all of Gwyn's schemes and manipulations to supress the Darkness of humanity has been focused tenfold. It's a vile filth that infects everything in the city in the same way the people who lived there were made to believe it to be. Midir was made to consume the Darkness, assuming it to be an evil. It's also something to note that Midir is (from what I'm aware) a true dragon, and therefore likely isn't a good natural match with the Darkness he's consuming (and his soul was gained by the Darkness he consumed in a more violent way than the original gods obtained their's through).
With all this in mind, it might be interesting to look at the power of the First Flame itself. It didn't just grant powerful souls to the original four, but rewrote the very laws of reality.
Heat and cold, life and death, light and dark.
From these new laws, the four forms of power came into existance:
Gwyn's light and warmth - his glorious sunlight - stood for the order that came to rule the world's new reality.
Izalith's light and warmth - her uncontrollable Chaos - stood for the brilliant disorder and randomness that can be found in nature.
Nito's death and cold - his gentle, accepting death - stood for the inevitability that everything in this new world - be it men and gods, plants and beast, beliefs and civilisations - will eventually die.
Finally, the Pygmy's dark - his cold, yet seemingly gentle abyss - stood for the deep madness of thought and emotion. Everything from joy to grief, love to hate, dedication and insanity.
Another aspect that gives credit to the Darkness being the embodiment of emotion and thought is that the four Sisters of Dark that are seen in Dark Souls 2.
Nashandra embodied want and desire - both the grandures and corruptions that it brings.
Elana embodied wrath - both the uncontrolled anger of fury and the focused hatred of those who threaten oneself and one's people.
Nadalia embodied loneliness and the craving for affection - both the all-consuming and toxic obsession and the gentle comfort that love and care brings.
Alsanna embodied fear and sorrow, for she was the weakest of the sisters - both the paralysing fear of uncertainly and the strength and determination from seeking to avoid further sorrow.
The fragments of Manus, and therefore the Darkness itself, doesn't just represent the bad, but also the good that can come from any emotion. There is no such thing as truely evil, only the corrupting and uncontrollability of being overwhelmed by something.
This ended up being just one massive ramble that took me hours to write. It was mostly me just randomly thinking things that are somewhat related to the topic/question and throwing them out there, so it's probably not the best.
Outside of the meta rules of "one boss, one reward" it makes sense that Priscilla drops both a soul and a weapon. She's a hybrid of a dragon and god/human/something, after all.
Uh, quick reminder: given the Sunlight Blade miracle's location and description, Gwyn's firstborn was exiled after Gwyn left for the Kiln and the subsequent construction of his 'tomb' in Anor Londo.
How this happened, when presumably he would have been the one to take leadership in his father's absence given his being firstborn, is unclear, though given Gwyndolin hasn't thrown his sibling's last gift to their father out of the tomb the falling-out can't have been too dire.
- Location
- The Land of Giant Bush Bunnies
I always imagined Gwynevere was actually more of the true heir than the Firstborn. Even if he was indeed the firstborn son, he was also a god of war who apparently didn't care about anything beyond strength of arms. Gwynevere, meanwhile, was the kind and gentle goddess who still knew how to manipulate. I feel like, if anyone, Gwynevere would've been the one to be made the designated heir, not the Firstborn who only knew of violence.
Even Gwyndolin would've made a better choice of an heir at the time due to being humble-yet-proud-and-manipulating, and he seemingly did considering he was still ruling even in Dark Souls 3 (until the whole Sulyvahn and Aldrich thing...)
True, Amazing Chest Ahead's whole deal does seem more suited to a leadership position than the firstborn's, and her cathedral-palace is the central structure of the player-accessible region of Anor Londo - though whether it was hers originally or it was rebuilt to be such at some point after Gwyn himself departed is unclear enough that she herself might never have resided there - though one would expect more reprisal directed toward Seath's kidnapping of her Maidens for experimentation were that the case, as even if that happened after she herself had run off Gwyndolin would presumably want to keep up the illusion of normalcy by responding to events as if Gwynevere were still in charge.
Speaking of, it's honestly incredible that the Gwynevere-illusion is actually capable of maintaining the Covenant that served the original, right down to enabling use of its exclusive miracles. Seriously, when they're at that level of potency and ability to interact with the world around them, are they even still 'illusions'?
- Location
- Wisconsin
Manus's soul is described as being warm after you beat him.
I'm honestly surprised aldrich managed to get his slime on Gwyndolin the dude is surprisingly capable.
RecurringExtra
Designated Background Character
- Location
- Out of Focus
You call that mad rambling? It seems that my time has come (That time being 1 AM right before I collapse asleep)
I swear I didn't put it in double spoilers, but it is now for some reason and so I'm keeping it like that.
Regardless, even if he were exiled after the fact, seeing as he essentially defected to join the Dragons, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to essentially willfully renounce his inheritance, or at the very least be willing to relinquish his claims on it. Seeing as he's physically hollowed when encountered in DS3, he clearly gave up whatever Divine Spark he was meant to recieve, but seeing as he nevertheless drops a soul, it's likely he basically made his own over the years. Maybe he wanted the challenge of starting over and building from the ground up, or maybe he just banged a dragon and everyone else didn't like his new fluffy daughter, it's kind of hard to be sure with how vague the lore is, but that's half the fun in the end.
Gotta be careful here to avoid some spoilers for my own quest, but one of the ways I've looked at it is that while the Dark is related to Hollowing, it's more so due to the fact that, now that there IS something, it's impossible to truly go back to that original state of nothingness. So in a sense, when somebody goes hollow now, they're left with Dark, because the actual literal "nothingness" that defined the original state of people in the world (IE The hollows from the DS1 Intro) no longer exists. So basically, the Dark as a concept just kind of "fills in" whatever the Light is missing, but there's a difference between the Dark and something like the Dark Soul itself, or even something like the Abyss, etc. The Abyss seems to be more like an energy source kind of thing? It's weird, it's kind of like a metaphysical place that Gwyn sealed off from Humanity that keeps leaking into the world because he did a rush patchjob and didn't use enough flextape or something. Maybe setting the flextape on fire wasn't the right call, but that's besides the point. So the Darksign is meant to stop dark "leakage" which in this case is because the Dark is somehow both something and nothing at once, due to it being, well, Darkness. If you make the absence of something an actual thing, then things are going to get weird. More likely though, it's meant to stop the Dark Soul itself from leaking out, and instead burn whatever does come out, which in turn is what leaves people Hollow: they're filled with Darkness, yes, but it's not the Dark Soul itself, which is where the issues come in. That's essentially the big secret of the Sable Church is figuring out how to basically use the off-brand garbage like the real deal. Or maybe not, I'm honestly half asleep and making shit up off the top of my head right now, so I'll probably come read some of this tomorrow and not understand where any of it was going.
I swear I didn't put it in double spoilers, but it is now for some reason and so I'm keeping it like that.
Sunlight Blade's description is a bit weird. Essentially, it's not an uncommon thing for someone like a reigning monarch or some other figure to have their tomb built before they actually died. Considering Gwyn likely planned out the Firelinking in some capacity, it's likely he had it built before he actually left for the Kiln, because unless Gwyndolin built the entire thing himself I'm not sure how it would've been constructed.
Regardless, even if he were exiled after the fact, seeing as he essentially defected to join the Dragons, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to essentially willfully renounce his inheritance, or at the very least be willing to relinquish his claims on it. Seeing as he's physically hollowed when encountered in DS3, he clearly gave up whatever Divine Spark he was meant to recieve, but seeing as he nevertheless drops a soul, it's likely he basically made his own over the years. Maybe he wanted the challenge of starting over and building from the ground up, or maybe he just banged a dragon and everyone else didn't like his new fluffy daughter, it's kind of hard to be sure with how vague the lore is, but that's half the fun in the end.
It's a faith based covenant. The illusions don't really do much work, rather it's the belief of the followers doing all the heavy lifting here. As for why you only have access to said miracles in the covenant, that's likely due to needing the proper mindset to cast them. It's hard to get into the story of Gwynevere, Daughter of Gwyn, and Goddess of Fertility when you're trying to roleplay as a giant lizard in order to achieve immortality.
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- Location
- Canada
Your take on Hollowing being an absence of Flame in any form, including Dark which the Darksign drains, is very unique, one I haven't seen before! I'm always glad to see someone with a somewhat plausible opinion that differs from big lore-theorists.
Although, I have to point out that Darkdwellers, an enemy type in DS2 that spawns next to the Abyss entrance in Drangleic castle as well as the Wharf, look an awful lot like the corrupted citizens of Oolacile (see the arms). Methinks that 'peaceful' dark isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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Uh, you kinda have a phrasing inconsistency there - you refer to them as 'Darklurkers' [the name of an apparently-singular boss entity] in the main text and then as 'Darkdwellers' [as far as I can tell their actual name] in the name of the spoiler.Your take on Hollowing being an absence of Flame in any form, including Dark which the Darksign drains, is very unique, one I haven't seen before! I'm always glad to see someone with a somewhat plausible opinion that differs from big lore-theorists.
Although, I have to point out that Darklurkers, an enemy type in DS2, look an awful lot like the corrupted citizens of Oolacile (see the arms). Methinks that 'peaceful' dark isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Also, those things are apparently linked to Pyromancy... somehow... despite not dropping anything related to Chaos Pyromancy, which one would assume to be the varant which would possess mutagenic effects given its origins. No, they just drop regular Pyromancer gear and Flames.
E: They don't drop anything connected to Oolacile's Dark-aligned Pyromancies, either, so that's the other potential mutation source crossed off.
Also, they're scared of torches, which is... unusual, considering neither Dragons nor fully Dark or Abyssal entities react in such a manner to the presence of fire, whether that's lowercase-f or capital-F.
E2: Gonna have to ca it night here, so I won't be able to respond further, sorry.
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- Location
- Canada
Whoops. I meant to edit that before posting after I wrote the wrong one as a placeholder while trying to remember the name, but it slipped my mind. Fixed now.
Anyway: The pyromancy link only helps the connection. Dark pyromancies exist in DS1 and DS3, and can be found in Oolacile/the Abyss. These are presumably powered, or at least influenced by Humanity/the Dark Soul rather than from the same source as other pyromancies.
- Location
- The Land of Giant Bush Bunnies
Right, probably should've checked Manus's soul, of all things, beforehand...
The age of the gods had long passed by the time of Dark souls 3, even if they refused to accept it. I believe the Pontiff had more or less taken complete control over Gwyndolin's kingdom by the time Aldrich arrived and was gifted the little god to eat.
The gods may be powerful, but our own adventures in the games have shown that they're not unbeatable. Gwyndolin's illusions and fancy magic probably wasn't much help when trapped in a single room as a massive wave of hungry living sludge slowly fills up the room and consumes him alive. And that's not even taking into account the possibility that his power has dwindled with the decline of his father's influence.
High praise, considering it was just me throwing the first thing that came to my head as I wrote.
- Location
- Wisconsin
Another crazy thought, there is no real specifications about how long it took for the children of dark to form after Manus's death save that some came together faster than the others and the dlc where you kill him takes place an unspecified amount of time in the past. Technically there is nothing to stop Nashandra or her sisters from showing up here.
- Location
- The Land of Giant Bush Bunnies
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- The Land of Giant Bush Bunnies
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Part 5: Undead Asylum V
- Location
- The Land of Giant Bush Bunnies
[x] Ask some more questions
-[x] The hell is this place?
-[x] Wait, undeads?
You heave a sigh and lean back on your hands, looking up at the grey clouds covering the sky. "Damnit, she has to be here somewhere… Maybe she woke up somewhere else for some reason? Somewhere not so… ruin-y." You look back down at Oscar with a frown. "Speaking of this place being all ruined, where are we? You called it an asylum, but it looks more like some kind of prison to me."
The knight nods slowly, looking around at the crumbling walls surrounding the courtyard. "A prison is certainly a better way to describe it. It's official name is the Northern Undead Asylum, which I suppose suggests they've built more of these prisons elsewhere. Unique or not, we're currently at the highest peak of an unnamed mountain range in the furthest northern reaches of the Kingdom of Lordran."
"Seems pretty remote then." You comment "Isn't it kinda inconvenient to build a prison somewhere so hard to reach. How do the prisoners and guards get here? How do they get food and stuff?"
Oscar chuckles at your question. "I suspect they were more concerned about being certain the Undead remained imprisoned than they were about accessibility. As for guards, I've only seen a demon or two patrolling about. I'm not too sure what they eat, but I can't imagine they bother with feeding the Undead prisoners."
You make a "hmm" sound and detach your soul gem, holding it up to the fire and admiring the reflection of the embers. "You keep saying Undead, but I assume you're not talking about Magical Girl, considering most people don't even know about them."
"Magical Girl, you say?" Oscar muses thoughtfully. "That sounds a bit redundant, considering many nobles know at least a little bit of magic or miracles. How is it related to the Undead?"
"Well, where I'm from, magic isn't really that common, I don't think." You reply showing him your soul gem. "A little white-ring puts your soul in one of these gems or something in exchange for a wish. I think Oriko said something about the body losing its preservation thingy or something." You say, putting your finger to your chin and try to remember Oriko's words. "Either way, I guess not having the soul in your body technically make you undead? It lets me fully recover from anything as long as I have enough magic left."
You thrust your hands into your lap and lean forward, running your finger from your shoulder to your hip. "I even got cleaved in half one time. The look on the girl's face when I got her from behind was pretty good."
"That sounds somewhat different to the usual Undead Curse." Oscar says, his helmet angled down to the soul gem in your hand. "Those suffering from the Undead Curse have their soul gradually dwindle, but to have it fully removed and still function normally is something else."
"You need to stop answering my questions with more weird terms." You say flatly, frowning.
The knight chuckles. "Ah, I'm sorry. Wherever you're from, it seems that the Undead Curse has yet to reach there. Or perhaps you've progressed to the point of memory loss." He takes out his sword and scratches a rough map into the gravel. "No one remembers where or how the Undead Curse began, only that it spread through the lands like a plague. One by one, the world has been consumed by the Curse, with fear and mistrust spreading like wildfire."
He draws a circle around a spot somewhat central to his map. "Not even Lordran itself has gone untouched, from what I've heard. Although, I suspect from this asylum's existence that they're still holding out somewhat under the guidance of the gods."
"So, uh… why dump all these Undead people in a prison in the middle of nowhere?" You ask. "You called yourself an Undead when I found you, so I take it you're not just mindless zombies or something."
"That's… only technically true. Beyond the obvious undying, the Undead suffer from gradual memory loss that eventually devolves into mindlessness. They will often continue whatever tasks they were doing at the time, but will also lash out at those around them. Because of this, they are hunted down and thrown in here, or…"
You notice his hand tighten around his sword. "or they make sure the body is beyond repair and burn them."
He goes quiet after that, so you get to your feet and stretch. As you do so, you dispel your magical girl outfit and return to your school uniform. Next, you untie the bag from your wrist and attach it to your waist so that it's not flapping around a lot whenever you move your hand.
"I've never seen magic like yours before." Oscar says, following you to his feet and admiring the ring your soul gem flashed into. "Weapon and armour enchantment, but never complete transformation or creation out of nothing."
You just shrug. "It's pretty common among the other magical girls I've met. I guess we're just special?"
--------------------
[] Ask some more questions
-[] Write in
[] Search the Asylum some more
[] Head for the exit
[] Write in
-[x] The hell is this place?
-[x] Wait, undeads?
You heave a sigh and lean back on your hands, looking up at the grey clouds covering the sky. "Damnit, she has to be here somewhere… Maybe she woke up somewhere else for some reason? Somewhere not so… ruin-y." You look back down at Oscar with a frown. "Speaking of this place being all ruined, where are we? You called it an asylum, but it looks more like some kind of prison to me."
The knight nods slowly, looking around at the crumbling walls surrounding the courtyard. "A prison is certainly a better way to describe it. It's official name is the Northern Undead Asylum, which I suppose suggests they've built more of these prisons elsewhere. Unique or not, we're currently at the highest peak of an unnamed mountain range in the furthest northern reaches of the Kingdom of Lordran."
"Seems pretty remote then." You comment "Isn't it kinda inconvenient to build a prison somewhere so hard to reach. How do the prisoners and guards get here? How do they get food and stuff?"
Oscar chuckles at your question. "I suspect they were more concerned about being certain the Undead remained imprisoned than they were about accessibility. As for guards, I've only seen a demon or two patrolling about. I'm not too sure what they eat, but I can't imagine they bother with feeding the Undead prisoners."
You make a "hmm" sound and detach your soul gem, holding it up to the fire and admiring the reflection of the embers. "You keep saying Undead, but I assume you're not talking about Magical Girl, considering most people don't even know about them."
"Magical Girl, you say?" Oscar muses thoughtfully. "That sounds a bit redundant, considering many nobles know at least a little bit of magic or miracles. How is it related to the Undead?"
"Well, where I'm from, magic isn't really that common, I don't think." You reply showing him your soul gem. "A little white-ring puts your soul in one of these gems or something in exchange for a wish. I think Oriko said something about the body losing its preservation thingy or something." You say, putting your finger to your chin and try to remember Oriko's words. "Either way, I guess not having the soul in your body technically make you undead? It lets me fully recover from anything as long as I have enough magic left."
You thrust your hands into your lap and lean forward, running your finger from your shoulder to your hip. "I even got cleaved in half one time. The look on the girl's face when I got her from behind was pretty good."
"That sounds somewhat different to the usual Undead Curse." Oscar says, his helmet angled down to the soul gem in your hand. "Those suffering from the Undead Curse have their soul gradually dwindle, but to have it fully removed and still function normally is something else."
"You need to stop answering my questions with more weird terms." You say flatly, frowning.
The knight chuckles. "Ah, I'm sorry. Wherever you're from, it seems that the Undead Curse has yet to reach there. Or perhaps you've progressed to the point of memory loss." He takes out his sword and scratches a rough map into the gravel. "No one remembers where or how the Undead Curse began, only that it spread through the lands like a plague. One by one, the world has been consumed by the Curse, with fear and mistrust spreading like wildfire."
He draws a circle around a spot somewhat central to his map. "Not even Lordran itself has gone untouched, from what I've heard. Although, I suspect from this asylum's existence that they're still holding out somewhat under the guidance of the gods."
"So, uh… why dump all these Undead people in a prison in the middle of nowhere?" You ask. "You called yourself an Undead when I found you, so I take it you're not just mindless zombies or something."
"That's… only technically true. Beyond the obvious undying, the Undead suffer from gradual memory loss that eventually devolves into mindlessness. They will often continue whatever tasks they were doing at the time, but will also lash out at those around them. Because of this, they are hunted down and thrown in here, or…"
You notice his hand tighten around his sword. "or they make sure the body is beyond repair and burn them."
He goes quiet after that, so you get to your feet and stretch. As you do so, you dispel your magical girl outfit and return to your school uniform. Next, you untie the bag from your wrist and attach it to your waist so that it's not flapping around a lot whenever you move your hand.
"I've never seen magic like yours before." Oscar says, following you to his feet and admiring the ring your soul gem flashed into. "Weapon and armour enchantment, but never complete transformation or creation out of nothing."
You just shrug. "It's pretty common among the other magical girls I've met. I guess we're just special?"
--------------------
[] Ask some more questions
-[] Write in
[] Search the Asylum some more
[] Head for the exit
[] Write in
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Being fair, Oscar's leaving out a few things here, like the difference between how Thorolund handles 'normal' Undead versus how they deal with one of their priests getting the Curse, though it's possible he might not know those things due to being, well, from Astora, not Thorolund. Likewise, his not mentioning how Humanity intake can stave off the Hollowing process can probably be attributed to him being unsure if that information is relevant to Kirika's situation.
On another note - which, I'll grant, is connected to the current situation only by it being a thing that happens in the Asylum - anyone got a theory on why the Black Knight that shows up on returning apparently brought the doll which allows entry to the Painted World here to leave it in the player's cell, other than 'it's a relic of the old plot'?
It's, well, one of the few things I haven't been able to come up with an in-story reason for. I can come up with one for doing New Londo before the Bells, even - 'the PC is somehow connected to the place and decides to prioritize finding out what happened there over this 'Bells of Awakening' nonsense' - but not this.
On another note - which, I'll grant, is connected to the current situation only by it being a thing that happens in the Asylum - anyone got a theory on why the Black Knight that shows up on returning apparently brought the doll which allows entry to the Painted World here to leave it in the player's cell, other than 'it's a relic of the old plot'?
It's, well, one of the few things I haven't been able to come up with an in-story reason for. I can come up with one for doing New Londo before the Bells, even - 'the PC is somehow connected to the place and decides to prioritize finding out what happened there over this 'Bells of Awakening' nonsense' - but not this.
- Location
- The Land of Giant Bush Bunnies
He was freeing all the Undead because "why figure out who the Chosen Undead is when you can just let them all out?"
Considering the player is apparently the only one that we find in-game who isn't Hollow, it's a safe bet for him to assume Kirika is either who he was looking for or good enough.
I think the only theory I've seen is "~~~timey wimey, the return visit is before your first time~~~" which is generally not a very good explaination, in my opinion.
I suppose it could have something to do with Velka, since her servant takes you from the Asylum and she clearly has some kind of connection with the Painted World.
Honestly, a hyperthetical return to the Asylum would be... awkward at best. I'm contemplating just putting the doll somewhere else and skipping a return to the Asylum altogether, although I'm not decided yet.
Now I'm just trying to remember how Red Soul integrated the doll. I know Kyoko got it at some point considering the quest died somewhere around when we got dragged into the Painted World, but I don't remember if it was a starting gift, early find, or what.
... Not only does that not actually explain anything, Hollowed Oscar is right there. The floor in the courtyard where the Asylum Demon camped out is still damaged enough from your fighting it to drop you straight on down into the Stray's room, and more importantly was intact on your exit trip.
... Maybe someone with command authority over the Black Knights - which would presumably mean one of Anor Londo's gods, especially Gwyn's family members and subordinates - decided to either 'pardon' you or put you through a 'prison transfer' to the Painted World for whatever reason? Though why it'd be you specifically is, well, a mystery, as would the need to bring the doll in the latter case given whichever of Anor Londo's factions was dumping 'undesirables' in there doesn't seem to have needed to send the doll in with any of the other groups. In fact, considering that there's an exit just past Priscilla and yet none of those exiled to the painting seem to have ever used it, it's possible the doll's required to properly leave, not to enter.
... I doubt it was Gwyndolin using it, since going off the way the Darkmoon operate he's uh, not the type to go for 'imprisonment' as a solution to things - similarly, I doubt Irithyll's dungeons in 3 were built on his orders, given both his typical solution to crimes he considers heinous enough to punish, and that they match neither the architectural style of Anor Londo or the rest of the city.
E: To be clear: what I meant by that second sentence is that, if Gwyndolin wants people gone permanently, he has the Darkmoon stab them to death. Disappearing people into a hellish prison for the rest of their lives wouldn't be necessary.
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- Location
- Wisconsin
[X] Head for the exit
If I remember right the only real loot the asylum has at this point is the spots that have your starting gear, the rusted iron ring which is useful like a grand total of 3 times (blight town swamp, fighting the crystal golem that contains Dusk behind where the first hydra is, and in the black tar pit at the bottom of sens fortress) and a soul item just past where you normally fight the asylum demon. I don't think there is much of a point in searching the asylum anymore so we may as well get headed out.
If I remember right the only real loot the asylum has at this point is the spots that have your starting gear, the rusted iron ring which is useful like a grand total of 3 times (blight town swamp, fighting the crystal golem that contains Dusk behind where the first hydra is, and in the black tar pit at the bottom of sens fortress) and a soul item just past where you normally fight the asylum demon. I don't think there is much of a point in searching the asylum anymore so we may as well get headed out.
I mean.
This is where the first game's item exchange crow lives.
Does that count?