[X] The Tears of Winter: King of Winter
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Without intervention, this seems like a near certainty (as Aab and Taka have said). However, I think that closing out the Nilfel plot arc by putting the Arcanist to sleep is a bit of a waste for what is such an interesting piece of worldbuilding. How complex were the builders, that even a Shard of their legacy could raise up someone as powerful as Augustine? How tragic was their fall, that a Shard went so far into madness as to create someone as vile as Augustine?
It is time for the voters to take some ownership over the plot. One plan (from runeblue) involved scrying & chasing Aobaru's Chains of Fate enemy. Rihaku has asked the thread to suggest ways of helping Adorie to survive the political fallout of spending all of Nilfel's money and then abandoning her job. Why not add one more proactive effort, and engage directly with the Shard before we depart?
With Crimson Flare & Adorie's bloodline EFB, we know enough about bloodline manipulation to achieve whatever goal the Arcanist was shooting for when it created Augustine. With the remains of Procyon, we have something valuable to offer as a way to ensure a positive first impression. With Gisena's mastery over the "Sigils of the Arcanist" we can demonstrate our value as a collaborator / co-author. With Aobaru, we even have a direct connection to the Voyaging Realm itself.
Hunger does not need to wait and react blindly to each and every threat. We can take action and resolve this issue before leaving, even without voting for King of Winter. Plot votes are also an effective way of responding to threats!
For reference, Rihaku has talked about the way that challenges Hunger picks for himself amount to practice for the tests set to us by the Apocryphal Curse:
- Location
- Philippines
One can never tell if we'll end up having another vote where we get to choose to use Nilfel as ablative because of whatever potential events might happen. It'd be pretty shit though if it did come to that.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The real question is what form will the proc take? It probably depends on how quickly Hunger advances. If we're strong enough, the Shard will probably be something supremely inconvenient like taking our allies or territories hostage or maybe empowering Aobaru's enemy. Either one would be pretty bad, so if we end up taking Crimson Flare, we might want to go deal with her immediately. Considering the magnitude of improvement we've undergone and Gisena's True Nullity, I don't think it would be entirely impossible. Would kinda suck to keep hanging around in the VR for 2-3 more updates though.
Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Low-energy argument for Winter King:
Reawakening the Font of Myth is a unique opportunity for future exploration (Final Vestige), research, funds & safety.
Crimson Flare boils down to GET. GUD.
The opportunity cost of Crimson Flare can be gained by sheer effort and time as Hunger continues to grow in skill, whereas boosting the Realm of Myth now is a convenient shortcut without which we'll need to help with in the future, anyway, since the Arcanist will almost certainly come into play if we leave her unpacified.
Reawakening the Font of Myth is a unique opportunity for future exploration (Final Vestige), research, funds & safety.
Crimson Flare boils down to GET. GUD.
The opportunity cost of Crimson Flare can be gained by sheer effort and time as Hunger continues to grow in skill, whereas boosting the Realm of Myth now is a convenient shortcut without which we'll need to help with in the future, anyway, since the Arcanist will almost certainly come into play if we leave her unpacified.
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Gib Ring plox.
Is more relevant for Human Sphere stuff.
Can go thru shroud.
Also to be completely honest I just find Winter King to be less compelling. I mean...it's amazing. I've been comparing benefits all day.
I just care about the broader buffs to the entire party in comparison to the Nilfel and Adorie-specific buffs.
Gib Ring plox.
I also don't like the curse hunger has to shoulder. Can we just have some upgrades without extra complications pls?
See, I'm asking nicely
Pretty pleaseeeeeee
Is more relevant for Human Sphere stuff.
Can go thru shroud.
Also to be completely honest I just find Winter King to be less compelling. I mean...it's amazing. I've been comparing benefits all day.
I just care about the broader buffs to the entire party in comparison to the Nilfel and Adorie-specific buffs.
Gib Ring plox.
I also don't like the curse hunger has to shoulder. Can we just have some upgrades without extra complications pls?
See, I'm asking nicely
Pretty pleaseeeeeee
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@Aabcehmu
Don't feel obligated to spend money on the quest just to support your option. I'm sure the thread will be grateful but I don't think it's exactly the best use of such an option, plus unless we hammer out concrete terms, people might just backtrack on whatever and that'd be really crappy.
If you really feel like getting Nameless, maybe it might be better to get a Wish or just ask Rihaku for some lore that you find interesting.
I'm willing to back you up for the Apocryphal Armament, without much bribery involved, so long as we manage to actually get some Praxis training done before then (hoping for at least a technique or Refinement).
I don't think you need to escalate to Nameless tier bribery just so the thread agrees with you.
Don't feel obligated to spend money on the quest just to support your option. I'm sure the thread will be grateful but I don't think it's exactly the best use of such an option, plus unless we hammer out concrete terms, people might just backtrack on whatever and that'd be really crappy.
If you really feel like getting Nameless, maybe it might be better to get a Wish or just ask Rihaku for some lore that you find interesting.
I'm willing to back you up for the Apocryphal Armament, without much bribery involved, so long as we manage to actually get some Praxis training done before then (hoping for at least a technique or Refinement).
I don't think you need to escalate to Nameless tier bribery just so the thread agrees with you.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Hunger can be proactive, yes, but ignoring a Cold War between two interstellar powers with two dozen Armaments between them going hot for the sake of muddling around in the Human Sphere for a few more weeks goes almost beyond the pale, particularly when one of the Armaments very nearly just killed him and everyone else in Nilfel.
Hunger shouldn't do everything by himself, there's a reason why the curse of hubris is a crowning curse.
It doesn't force us to take a curse.
- Location
- Europe
This is a free marketplace, you can pick and choose but you can't have both!
Man, I've been holding on to this for a while since it's still too short. But with you saying things like this I have to put the idea out there before someone else sneaks it in.
In an instant, I am plucked from my chair and dropped on Buddha's palm, seared bare by the blue burning eyes of god.
"Are you sure?" Asks the man.
Words fail me, thoughts crumble before the meerest shadow of self-transcending infinity. Awash in the glare of an objective power that redefines all measures with its illuminating radiance I become aware, as acid on an open wound, of my cretinous nature.
In that moment I learn to hate.
It suffuses me, a river of bile that churns in my heart and thunders in my veins. Like a wave it builds in me and like a wave it crests and crumbles. There is no impotence more keenly felt than awe of the sublime.
"If it must be so," The eyes of the Accursed Bodhisattva close and I see the endless chains upon his form, each a fathomless depth. Enough to drag me low, even with every mote of this beings radiant power.
His eyes open once more and they burn with an uncompromising will that redefines weakness once more. This is no Buddha, no god, no Zarathustra.
Before me is Camus' Sisyphus, if in time he'd worn his mountain flat, crushed Olympus beneath his millstone and set his ceaseless tread to grinding down primordial depths.
"Go, then, and may good fortune be with you. Be cautious. Be clever. Grow strong. And remember this: You are my Cursebearer. Even should all creation rise against you, rise higher that you may strike them down. Even should the tides of the universe gather to oppose you, show them a universe that can live free of tides. Even should every path in every world be barred against you, still you will find a way through. That is your provenance. That is your legacy. Those are your words. Now go forth, and bear my Curse against this reality, and against all realities to come!"
As a figure revealed beneath a sculptor's hands my body is brushed aside and my essence pared free.
Then, as one might heat a brand, I am placed within a sun of radiative potential and thrust down into a doomed realm. Seared onto body and soul my ideogram of self is etched as a charred mark into the fundament.
As if stepping out of water in wet clothes I feel, all at once, weighed down by flesh. It drags on my bones, a ponderous tonnage no longer supported on all sides. But heavier still, as if the weight of mountains has been looped around my limbs, a dozen curses drag me down with their malice. Each an infinitesimal fraction of some greater malevolence, each the greatest burden I might bear.
I pry open my eyes, world indistinct and diffuse without glasses.
The sky is shadowed grey, covered in a blanket of pregnant clouds. Light slips past in stray beams and alights upon a barren beach of sodden, fine-grained sand. No bush or tree claws its way to life, not here. Before and behind me waits a smooth grey ocean that spans an all too distant horizon. To my left as if a ten-lane highway built from piled up sand, the beach stretches out. To my right, some twenty meters distant arises quite suddenly a forest that looms and bulges outward from healthy black soil.
In moments the distant water stirs. Three long lines of froth white force trace along the smooth surface, arcing toward me one and all
I glance down at myself. My left-hand holds a smooth oval of obsidian. About the size of my splayed hand it shows nothing of the sky, otherwise abyssal depths reflect no more and less than my pallid corpus.
In the mirror and in truth a jagged length of grey-white bone is held firm in my right hand. Its flanged and weighty head make it an instrument of crushing force, set to crumple armor and shatter skulls.
I brush my thumb across its osseous austerity and feel the porous texture beneath my fingertips. Like climbing chalk the grip is smooth and tacky all at once. It sends a pleasant shiver up my spine, the grip all but molded to my hand --none more suited.
In a breathless instant, as if unveiled, the naked truth of its nature is laid bare: Authority.
It is no quiet thing, no whisper or sigh upon the wind. This birth cry is as the rumbling crash of a mighty oak, its first motion as two hundred hands pressed up against the thin skein of prosaic reality to fulfill its Dharma at last.
Undaunted, even eager, it arranges itself about me as armor.
No time to think or understand it is the automatic, thoughtless revelation of the plenary brand shaped through Authorities lense that lets me understand what I can do.
I drop the obsidian mirror, certain it will be caught and held close enough to my head that I can see it without glasses, yet distant enough that it doesn't intrude.
Reflected in its depths is still my body, pallid skin and all. But, looming like a shadow cast by some centennial tree, a figure of bone and distorting force rises from the mace and enfolds me in the embrace of two hundred hands.
And then I see a spear flung at behind my back.
"Are you sure?" Asks the man.
Words fail me, thoughts crumble before the meerest shadow of self-transcending infinity. Awash in the glare of an objective power that redefines all measures with its illuminating radiance I become aware, as acid on an open wound, of my cretinous nature.
In that moment I learn to hate.
It suffuses me, a river of bile that churns in my heart and thunders in my veins. Like a wave it builds in me and like a wave it crests and crumbles. There is no impotence more keenly felt than awe of the sublime.
"If it must be so," The eyes of the Accursed Bodhisattva close and I see the endless chains upon his form, each a fathomless depth. Enough to drag me low, even with every mote of this beings radiant power.
His eyes open once more and they burn with an uncompromising will that redefines weakness once more. This is no Buddha, no god, no Zarathustra.
Before me is Camus' Sisyphus, if in time he'd worn his mountain flat, crushed Olympus beneath his millstone and set his ceaseless tread to grinding down primordial depths.
"Go, then, and may good fortune be with you. Be cautious. Be clever. Grow strong. And remember this: You are my Cursebearer. Even should all creation rise against you, rise higher that you may strike them down. Even should the tides of the universe gather to oppose you, show them a universe that can live free of tides. Even should every path in every world be barred against you, still you will find a way through. That is your provenance. That is your legacy. Those are your words. Now go forth, and bear my Curse against this reality, and against all realities to come!"
As a figure revealed beneath a sculptor's hands my body is brushed aside and my essence pared free.
Then, as one might heat a brand, I am placed within a sun of radiative potential and thrust down into a doomed realm. Seared onto body and soul my ideogram of self is etched as a charred mark into the fundament.
As if stepping out of water in wet clothes I feel, all at once, weighed down by flesh. It drags on my bones, a ponderous tonnage no longer supported on all sides. But heavier still, as if the weight of mountains has been looped around my limbs, a dozen curses drag me down with their malice. Each an infinitesimal fraction of some greater malevolence, each the greatest burden I might bear.
I pry open my eyes, world indistinct and diffuse without glasses.
The sky is shadowed grey, covered in a blanket of pregnant clouds. Light slips past in stray beams and alights upon a barren beach of sodden, fine-grained sand. No bush or tree claws its way to life, not here. Before and behind me waits a smooth grey ocean that spans an all too distant horizon. To my left as if a ten-lane highway built from piled up sand, the beach stretches out. To my right, some twenty meters distant arises quite suddenly a forest that looms and bulges outward from healthy black soil.
In moments the distant water stirs. Three long lines of froth white force trace along the smooth surface, arcing toward me one and all
I glance down at myself. My left-hand holds a smooth oval of obsidian. About the size of my splayed hand it shows nothing of the sky, otherwise abyssal depths reflect no more and less than my pallid corpus.
In the mirror and in truth a jagged length of grey-white bone is held firm in my right hand. Its flanged and weighty head make it an instrument of crushing force, set to crumple armor and shatter skulls.
I brush my thumb across its osseous austerity and feel the porous texture beneath my fingertips. Like climbing chalk the grip is smooth and tacky all at once. It sends a pleasant shiver up my spine, the grip all but molded to my hand --none more suited.
In a breathless instant, as if unveiled, the naked truth of its nature is laid bare: Authority.
It is no quiet thing, no whisper or sigh upon the wind. This birth cry is as the rumbling crash of a mighty oak, its first motion as two hundred hands pressed up against the thin skein of prosaic reality to fulfill its Dharma at last.
Undaunted, even eager, it arranges itself about me as armor.
No time to think or understand it is the automatic, thoughtless revelation of the plenary brand shaped through Authorities lense that lets me understand what I can do.
I drop the obsidian mirror, certain it will be caught and held close enough to my head that I can see it without glasses, yet distant enough that it doesn't intrude.
Reflected in its depths is still my body, pallid skin and all. But, looming like a shadow cast by some centennial tree, a figure of bone and distorting force rises from the mace and enfolds me in the embrace of two hundred hands.
And then I see a spear flung at behind my back.
The Accursed as an expression of Confronting the Absurd fits all too well. The boundless nature of the ISH and Rihaku's setting means that no omnipotent God (preferably benevolent) may ever be, so it is a ceaseless task to rise ever higher so that you are not cast down. Even then given enough time some being more suited to advancement will come and cast you in its shadow regardless, as the Accursed no doubt did to the previous forerunner.
There is no hope, no chance of true victory. The only satisfaction you can glean from such a crushing task is pride that you endure, enough will to prove yourself to yourself by surviving another day.
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Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
[X] The Tears of Winter: King of Winter
I keep rereading the blurbs and I just can't help liking King of winter. Mechanically I find Crimson Flare better but thematically King of Winter takes the cake. And the thematics were the entire reason behind my vote for myth. So might as well go all in on it. Besides I really want to finally get to the human sphere and King of Winter will let us leave with almost no complications.
I keep rereading the blurbs and I just can't help liking King of winter. Mechanically I find Crimson Flare better but thematically King of Winter takes the cake. And the thematics were the entire reason behind my vote for myth. So might as well go all in on it. Besides I really want to finally get to the human sphere and King of Winter will let us leave with almost no complications.
OK, looks like Saber's chances are fairly low. Of the two possible winners, I think I'll go with
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
I suppose that if we're going into the Human Sphere soon, having such mass buffs on hand would be convenient for many purposes. And especially if we're going to participate in the war on a large scale.
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
I suppose that if we're going into the Human Sphere soon, having such mass buffs on hand would be convenient for many purposes. And especially if we're going to participate in the war on a large scale.
Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Gonna try once more for the day. The core underlining argument for King of Winter I've put forth is mainly narrative-based:
Winter King will properly close Hunger's story within the Voyaging Realm without any lingering duties, ending on a high-note, assured that our accomplishments are secure.
It allows Hunger to fully focus and do his Uttermost in the Human Sphere without his mind getting bogged down or attached to concerns in the Voyaging Realm. Remember, Season's Greetings will also cover Elixir Sovereignty & Moon Temple simply by moving them into Nilfel, which would also grant the same longevity & increased Rank from Mythical exposure now that the Font of Myth is restored.
Architect of the Ages and Ennobling helps buff our polity's people to innovate their own wonders but why try to fix what's not broken, when we have the opportunity to restore Foremost infrastructure? Take advantage of the trodden path to further beyond instead of rediscovering similar Insights the Foremost have already explored.
From a character perspective, it's pretty clear this latest debacle will provoke an urgent need to find out what's happening in the Human Sphere, we don't have the leeway to proactively eliminate sleeping threats like the Arcanist, hence, we should solve it here and now. In the future, we can still return to explore her abode or awaken her if we're interested in learning.
I'm asking those voters prioritizing the Human Sphere to look at this as a down payment/security deposit for the freedom to act without burden. In that spirit, I'm going to reiterate a more appealing version of my leftover offer. Vote for King of Winter and ping me to receive:
1x Veto-less marker for any future Build Vote OR a high-stakes risk story vote (e.g. Hold the Line).
Winter King will properly close Hunger's story within the Voyaging Realm without any lingering duties, ending on a high-note, assured that our accomplishments are secure.
It allows Hunger to fully focus and do his Uttermost in the Human Sphere without his mind getting bogged down or attached to concerns in the Voyaging Realm. Remember, Season's Greetings will also cover Elixir Sovereignty & Moon Temple simply by moving them into Nilfel, which would also grant the same longevity & increased Rank from Mythical exposure now that the Font of Myth is restored.
Architect of the Ages and Ennobling helps buff our polity's people to innovate their own wonders but why try to fix what's not broken, when we have the opportunity to restore Foremost infrastructure? Take advantage of the trodden path to further beyond instead of rediscovering similar Insights the Foremost have already explored.
From a character perspective, it's pretty clear this latest debacle will provoke an urgent need to find out what's happening in the Human Sphere, we don't have the leeway to proactively eliminate sleeping threats like the Arcanist, hence, we should solve it here and now. In the future, we can still return to explore her abode or awaken her if we're interested in learning.
I'm asking those voters prioritizing the Human Sphere to look at this as a down payment/security deposit for the freedom to act without burden. In that spirit, I'm going to reiterate a more appealing version of my leftover offer. Vote for King of Winter and ping me to receive:
1x Veto-less marker for any future Build Vote OR a high-stakes risk story vote (e.g. Hold the Line).
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Some thoughts on our initial curses:
The reason this is required for Vengeance Hunger is because otherwise he'd start as an ordinary Cursebearer with no ability to immediately exit the universe, meaning the Hidden Ones would get him. Freedom Hunger started with enough power that he could leave the universe on his own terms so it wasn't a required pick for him.
The other reason it was offered was likely because of the similarity to the Forebear's Procession. Unlike Indenture, Procession can (and perhaps inevitably will) leave you stranded in some torture world, moves you to a new world via dying, might go on forever rather than just gazillions of years, and apparently can't be mitigated by the Forebear. Same basic idea though.
The Forebear never showed any signs of suffering this Curse, at least not from what little we've seen. That said, we've seen Hunger burn his self for power and every time he does the result is that he loses essence, powers, skills, identity, memories, ect... very similar to this Curse.
This curse is a reversal of Hunger's shattering. Hunger burns his self to change the world, while this curse burns the world to sustain the self. This relationship, burning the world vs burning the self, hasn't really been explored much in text but perhaps we'll see more in the future. A mitigation method unlocked by cracking the blade maybe?
The Forebear could restore his essence with the Foresleep, so I wouldn't be surprised if Hunger was offered a mitigation method involving sleep.
The Least Foresleep we were shown was the Affliction of Slumber but impossible to mitigate and also presumably much milder than the full Foresleep.
There are differences though. The Forebear's line "Better eons spent in recovery sleep than wasted on this dialogue" implies he's deriving positive benefits from the sleep. It is not described as something he suffers constantly like the Procession, not as some sort of Curse thrust upon him, but rather something he actively chooses to use in order to recuperate. And then add in the fact that Hunger got or was offered several bonuses in the beginning of the quest for sleeping, ranging from just powering up over time to Dead but Dreaming. Normally the Slumber curse prohibits earning power in your sleep.
Foresleep mentions it cannot be mitigated. This is interesting in light of the fact that Uttermost, another Forebear Curse, made it impossible to mitigate Tyrant. And the Forebear makes no mention of mitigating the Procession.
One possibility is that his Foresleep is a Curse someone/something cast on him, he partially mitigated it so that he could heal while sleeping (something the unmitigated Slumber does not allow), and the interlude just didn't mention that. But I think that's unlikely, turning a Curse into something positive is possible since we got offered to do just that with the Apocryphal but to mitigate Foresleep to that level while the Procession is still happening?
The other possibility is that the Forebear was drawing power from those Curses in the exact same way that Armaments do. Armaments are empowered by their Curses, "Once fitted with its Core and imbued with its Curse, even the steel and simple hydraulics comprising Procyon's body could stand toe-to-toe against Armament-flesh." Maybe the Forebear drew on the Curse of Slumber to create his Foresleep, just like how the power of an Armament comes from its Curse? If so then perhaps all Armaments are inspired by him.
The Forebear was called a "troubleshooter of worlds", somewhat similar to the Champion's remit to "solve problems". He definitely was unconquered, at least in spirit. He started out each world either alone or with just a few companions since he had to die each time.
It's not quite as clear a connection as the Procession and Indenture, or Foresleep and Slumber.
The connection here is that Uttermost, a Forebear advancement, prohibits mitigating Tyrant. Also Gisena speculates a bit on it, with the possibility that her refusal to mitigate is intentional. That's the best evidence we have; the Forebear's interlude shows him being strong-willed and not inclined to diplomacy but it hardly takes a curse to behave like that.
Perhaps it's the same deal as with Foresleep; the reason Tyrant can't be mitigated is because just as an Armament draws power from its Curse to be itself, Hunger draws power from the Tyrant in order to access the Praxis.
Apocryphal , Plenary, and Lunacy have no obvious Forebear connections. They could have meaning to Hunger personally; Lunacy if it counts Hunger's wife as valid, and Apocryphal if you take that line about it testing to see if you're worthy of the Accursed's mantle seriously.
...
Maybe the Forebear was given the Procession Curse directly, then learned how to draw on the power of various other curses along the way? It would explain why apparently the Foresleep is both optional and empowers him, why Tyrant (maybe?) empowers him to use something like the Praxis, but no mention of drawing power from the Procession is mentioned. Either that or drawing power from the Procession came later and just wasn't mentioned that interlude.
Either way, the Forebear drew power from Curses like an Armament so I think he's the one who kick-started that phenomenon.
884 words
The reason this is required for Vengeance Hunger is because otherwise he'd start as an ordinary Cursebearer with no ability to immediately exit the universe, meaning the Hidden Ones would get him. Freedom Hunger started with enough power that he could leave the universe on his own terms so it wasn't a required pick for him.
The other reason it was offered was likely because of the similarity to the Forebear's Procession. Unlike Indenture, Procession can (and perhaps inevitably will) leave you stranded in some torture world, moves you to a new world via dying, might go on forever rather than just gazillions of years, and apparently can't be mitigated by the Forebear. Same basic idea though.
The Forebear never showed any signs of suffering this Curse, at least not from what little we've seen. That said, we've seen Hunger burn his self for power and every time he does the result is that he loses essence, powers, skills, identity, memories, ect... very similar to this Curse.
This curse is a reversal of Hunger's shattering. Hunger burns his self to change the world, while this curse burns the world to sustain the self. This relationship, burning the world vs burning the self, hasn't really been explored much in text but perhaps we'll see more in the future. A mitigation method unlocked by cracking the blade maybe?
The Forebear could restore his essence with the Foresleep, so I wouldn't be surprised if Hunger was offered a mitigation method involving sleep.
The Least Foresleep we were shown was the Affliction of Slumber but impossible to mitigate and also presumably much milder than the full Foresleep.
There are differences though. The Forebear's line "Better eons spent in recovery sleep than wasted on this dialogue" implies he's deriving positive benefits from the sleep. It is not described as something he suffers constantly like the Procession, not as some sort of Curse thrust upon him, but rather something he actively chooses to use in order to recuperate. And then add in the fact that Hunger got or was offered several bonuses in the beginning of the quest for sleeping, ranging from just powering up over time to Dead but Dreaming. Normally the Slumber curse prohibits earning power in your sleep.
Foresleep mentions it cannot be mitigated. This is interesting in light of the fact that Uttermost, another Forebear Curse, made it impossible to mitigate Tyrant. And the Forebear makes no mention of mitigating the Procession.
One possibility is that his Foresleep is a Curse someone/something cast on him, he partially mitigated it so that he could heal while sleeping (something the unmitigated Slumber does not allow), and the interlude just didn't mention that. But I think that's unlikely, turning a Curse into something positive is possible since we got offered to do just that with the Apocryphal but to mitigate Foresleep to that level while the Procession is still happening?
The other possibility is that the Forebear was drawing power from those Curses in the exact same way that Armaments do. Armaments are empowered by their Curses, "Once fitted with its Core and imbued with its Curse, even the steel and simple hydraulics comprising Procyon's body could stand toe-to-toe against Armament-flesh." Maybe the Forebear drew on the Curse of Slumber to create his Foresleep, just like how the power of an Armament comes from its Curse? If so then perhaps all Armaments are inspired by him.
The Forebear was called a "troubleshooter of worlds", somewhat similar to the Champion's remit to "solve problems". He definitely was unconquered, at least in spirit. He started out each world either alone or with just a few companions since he had to die each time.
It's not quite as clear a connection as the Procession and Indenture, or Foresleep and Slumber.
The connection here is that Uttermost, a Forebear advancement, prohibits mitigating Tyrant. Also Gisena speculates a bit on it, with the possibility that her refusal to mitigate is intentional. That's the best evidence we have; the Forebear's interlude shows him being strong-willed and not inclined to diplomacy but it hardly takes a curse to behave like that.
Perhaps it's the same deal as with Foresleep; the reason Tyrant can't be mitigated is because just as an Armament draws power from its Curse to be itself, Hunger draws power from the Tyrant in order to access the Praxis.
Apocryphal , Plenary, and Lunacy have no obvious Forebear connections. They could have meaning to Hunger personally; Lunacy if it counts Hunger's wife as valid, and Apocryphal if you take that line about it testing to see if you're worthy of the Accursed's mantle seriously.
...
Maybe the Forebear was given the Procession Curse directly, then learned how to draw on the power of various other curses along the way? It would explain why apparently the Foresleep is both optional and empowers him, why Tyrant (maybe?) empowers him to use something like the Praxis, but no mention of drawing power from the Procession is mentioned. Either that or drawing power from the Procession came later and just wasn't mentioned that interlude.
Either way, the Forebear drew power from Curses like an Armament so I think he's the one who kick-started that phenomenon.
884 words
Rihaku
The Internet
Not necessarily, the range of beings among the observable highest tier is both finite and not that mindbogglingly vast. The arrival of the Accursed did shake things up, but even worn down by his curses no one has caught up to his individual power, nor does it seem likely than any will. Of course, what we conceptualize as progression may mean very little at that vaunted echelon, given that any such being is well beyond the power level needed to simply make themselves maximally talented, creating both infinite time and systems of physical and metaphysical advancement to exploit.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Alright, let's face it folks, the good times are over. Like the Fonts before them, the digital waterfall surged massively for a while but has now largely run dry. With that being the case, we should go ahead and take a look at our Arete budget and whatever investments are most important currently. These were selected for providing us the most non-Arete scaling, point for point, in roughly my order of priority:
[Ruling Ring] - The OG and still one of the best. At our current level of power, we should be comfortable enough to take on all comers (or at least, not less comfortable than the Apocryphal already makes us). Between being able to actually train at a Progression type's speed and the power of pick spam through Pillars, we really should pick this up. The fact that it allows us to apply our absolutely absurd level of Rank to all Dominions is just icing on the cake here. The path there is somewhat awkward though, between the relative rarity of Preeminences and the very lacking level of power they offer for 7 Arete options.
[Once and Future] - If you can't boost the speed of your Progression, you can instead make each point of progress more valuable. This kind of flat scaling is extra beneficial for our current situation because it represents an enormous boost in immediate power as well, especially with the Heroic Advancement providing us a boost one tier up. In addition to all of that, the visions of the Forebear come with free Praxis training boosts and other neat bonuses like an increase in rare advancements. Considering all of that, if we've ever saved up the necessary Arete for an EFB again (as opposed to the regular drip feed), this should almost certainly be our choice.
[To Shatter Heaven] - While I imagine Rune King is out the window by this point, there's probably some other avenues we can access this through. Praxis is naturally the best candidate here considering how most multipliers do nothing for it but if that's not available, the Signs would be a strong secondary pick to accelerate the rate at which the mythic power of our cloak gathers and perhaps allow us to obtain more than one Sign of any given level.
[Sword in the Stone] - Same general reasoning as the Once and Future series. It's a much less proactive kind of power than those so it's not at the top of my list but it will be an absolute godsend once we've completed our conquest and need to defend our territories for 50 years straight. The various benefits to our kingdom and the resurrection function are also nice to have and would likely have some very interesting interactions with Architect of the Age, for example.
[Refinement of Battle] - Painful to burn Arete on this before obtaining any more progression multipliers but perhaps if we spend the near future studying the Praxis, we'll only need to spend 7 to get it in a timely manner. This is pretty good already due to our existing bonuses to ruin and the earlier we get it, the more time it has to scale up. An automatic attack and defense against all vectors is incredibly valuable, especially considering how ruin bolsters all our other attacks as well. Consider a Rank Deathly Star with a thousandfold offensive multiplier applied, for example.
[Elixir] - Between the Magnitude improvements providing massive bonuses to all of our stats and making Graces an actually worthwhile time investment, it does a lot for our non-combat power and utility, at least for what we can obtain through training. A half-stage of Apocryphal Mitigation is a nice bonus, as is the service of Lucenthorn.
Those are all the options I can recall off the top of my head, at least for stuff that's available publicly. Anyone have any suggestions that I missed? Other than Fisher King, I mean.
[Ruling Ring] - The OG and still one of the best. At our current level of power, we should be comfortable enough to take on all comers (or at least, not less comfortable than the Apocryphal already makes us). Between being able to actually train at a Progression type's speed and the power of pick spam through Pillars, we really should pick this up. The fact that it allows us to apply our absolutely absurd level of Rank to all Dominions is just icing on the cake here. The path there is somewhat awkward though, between the relative rarity of Preeminences and the very lacking level of power they offer for 7 Arete options.
[Once and Future] - If you can't boost the speed of your Progression, you can instead make each point of progress more valuable. This kind of flat scaling is extra beneficial for our current situation because it represents an enormous boost in immediate power as well, especially with the Heroic Advancement providing us a boost one tier up. In addition to all of that, the visions of the Forebear come with free Praxis training boosts and other neat bonuses like an increase in rare advancements. Considering all of that, if we've ever saved up the necessary Arete for an EFB again (as opposed to the regular drip feed), this should almost certainly be our choice.
[To Shatter Heaven] - While I imagine Rune King is out the window by this point, there's probably some other avenues we can access this through. Praxis is naturally the best candidate here considering how most multipliers do nothing for it but if that's not available, the Signs would be a strong secondary pick to accelerate the rate at which the mythic power of our cloak gathers and perhaps allow us to obtain more than one Sign of any given level.
[Sword in the Stone] - Same general reasoning as the Once and Future series. It's a much less proactive kind of power than those so it's not at the top of my list but it will be an absolute godsend once we've completed our conquest and need to defend our territories for 50 years straight. The various benefits to our kingdom and the resurrection function are also nice to have and would likely have some very interesting interactions with Architect of the Age, for example.
[Refinement of Battle] - Painful to burn Arete on this before obtaining any more progression multipliers but perhaps if we spend the near future studying the Praxis, we'll only need to spend 7 to get it in a timely manner. This is pretty good already due to our existing bonuses to ruin and the earlier we get it, the more time it has to scale up. An automatic attack and defense against all vectors is incredibly valuable, especially considering how ruin bolsters all our other attacks as well. Consider a Rank Deathly Star with a thousandfold offensive multiplier applied, for example.
[Elixir] - Between the Magnitude improvements providing massive bonuses to all of our stats and making Graces an actually worthwhile time investment, it does a lot for our non-combat power and utility, at least for what we can obtain through training. A half-stage of Apocryphal Mitigation is a nice bonus, as is the service of Lucenthorn.
Those are all the options I can recall off the top of my head, at least for stuff that's available publicly. Anyone have any suggestions that I missed? Other than Fisher King, I mean.
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[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
Counterpoint: KoW increases Health, Damage Resistance, Condition Resistance, and Attack Speed by 75%, and Damage Dealt by 250% and that bonus is applied to Adorie as well (as Sovereign of Nilfel) . She is naive and sheltered so not a good fighter, better to fix her foundations.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But like... she's never going to be a fighter on Hunger's level. It's just not happening. She's got three relevant stats: Wits (so she can keep up with the action in a fight), Willpower (so she can maintain her Shroud longer in a fight) and Rank (to make her Shroud stronger). She's never going to be punching Armaments and suffering a serious hit i.e. one without the Shroud to interdict, is going to end with her death. I guess you could make a case for the Vanguard's protection helping out with that, assuming the multipliers involved stack. But honestly, if she's getting hit at all, Hunger has already fucked the dog super badly.
Who said fighting Armaments? Unlock Status: Foremost Maker and use the newspaper to slap them around. As the Shroud could not be maintend for too long, a bit of permament health, defense and condtion resistance are welcome. I consider Adorie a perma -0.5 Rank bot and Magic Sign researched. Hopefully she actually does her job and not slack off like some purple haired bitch.
There is still crazy ass amount of utility there. Besides, it also opens up the second possibility I didn't think about, which is to say designating Gisena or Letrizia as her champion. Obviously, Gisena's research and Artifice will benefit massively from bonus stats and Rank while Letrizia has amazing synergy with Rank thanks to her Element, to say nothing of Shrouds those two could manifest.
It could be that Adorie simply can't pick them as champion, of course, or that changing designated champion is not easy, but it's an interesting possibility. I guess that "Foremost Builder" might be linked to Adorie buffing Gisena?
It could be that Adorie simply can't pick them as champion, of course, or that changing designated champion is not easy, but it's an interesting possibility. I guess that "Foremost Builder" might be linked to Adorie buffing Gisena?
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Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Our best likely lead on Foremost Maker is Architect of the Age though! As for the others, why does she need any of them when she's got Rank 10? The only real benefit there is the Condition resistance and that's assuming she isn't already immune to Exhaustion due to her bloodline.