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A Simple Transaction I

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[X] The Tears of Winter: King of Winter

Urg, Flair, can we please not lock our heroic advancement for the Ring into an advancement that diffuses most of its power into buffing others?
 
That's why we should vote Saber instead! In Rihakuverse, rapidly scaling individuals will always dunk on large groups of people! We appear to not even be close to starting our conquering ambitions, so why even stop now? The smart thing seems to be scaling up until we can wreck Armaments, then start speccing into diffusing our power as opposed to the other way around. This is because most problems we will be facing are martial, and consolidating power in a single person is just much more effective than spreading it out.

However, if it comes down to it I will vote for Adorie since Apocryphal shelter is ridiculously good
 
Talace said:
That's why we should vote Saber instead! In Rihakuverse, rapidly scaling individuals will always dunk on large groups of people! We appear to not even be close to starting our conquering ambitions, so why even stop now? The smart thing seems to be scaling up until we can wreck Armaments, then start speccing into diffusing our power as opposed to the other way around. This is because most problems we will be facing are martial, and consolidating power in a single person is just much more effective than spreading it out.

However, if it comes down to it I will vote for Adorie since Apocryphal shelter is ridiculously good
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I really think that skill on the order of millennia practicing with Rank 11+ bloodcasting is the way to solve the Armament problem.

King of Winter makes us better at physical confrontations, but the fight with Procyon showed that we are still leagues away from being able to directly contest an Armament in physical combat. Only tactics, age, and Treachery gave us the W. Against any other match up we would have been wrecked.

King of Winter doesn't get around the fundamental problem that Hunger couldn't even see the punches coming without using RoQ
 
King of Winter reactivates the Fonts of Myth, which are very likely to be tied to the Signs, which will hopefully make acquiring the Armory of Night much more achievable, which will in turn hopefully handle any future Armaments we square up with.
 
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Zampano said:
King of Winter makes us better at physical confrontations, but the fight with Procyon showed that we are still leagues away from being able to directly contest an Armament in physical combat. Only tactics, age, and Treachery gave us the W. Against any other match up we would have been wrecked.

King of Winter doesn't get around the fundamental problem that Hunger couldn't even see the punches coming without using RoQ
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Isn't it the other way around? Flare lets us have much higher physical stats, and improves our bloodcasting and bloodsense. This is still resisted by Armaments and other creatures with Rank, albeit less so since our casting is so strong. Damage Resistance and Condition Resistance weaken all forms of non-damaging assault (see: the Shroud). Not to mention, if we get hit by illusion, no matter how physically strong we are, we'll get creamed unless our Resistances are up to snuff.

Ultimately though, Saber is just that much better than everything else in physical competition. Another 0.5 Rank at our level is overwhelmingly powerful and is likely to improve all aspects by a ginormous amount due to our existing external buffs, so don't discount Saber as just sword play, everyone! We also go up in power by a lot in bloodcasting, military matters, and defensive rank. Why not learn to Cut Through pressure? I know that would be pretty appealing.
 
The actual task of conquering the human sphere is kinda... trivial, in a sense.

A Hunger's rate of growth he'll effectively have outscaled the task within a few years at most. Given this task has a time frame measure in the thousands of years to accomplish this is... somewhat impressive.

The trick, of course, is actually surviving that long.
 
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Aabcehmu said:
King of Winter reactives the Fonts of Myth, which are very likely to be tied to the Signs, which will hopefully make acquiring the Armory of Night much more achievable, which will in turn hopefully handle any future Armaments we square up with.
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I admire your optimism. I do not share your faith in the thread. We put 12A into Fisher King that is still just sitting there, inert. We went for the greedy Signs set bonus but couldn't close the deal.

Talace said:
Isn't it the other way around? Flare lets us have much higher physical stats, and improves our bloodcasting and bloodsense. This is still resisted by Armaments and other creatures with Rank, albeit less so since our casting is so strong.
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It's not the other way around.

Flare allows us to apply an esoteric attack (from hundreds of miles away) that would otherwise be resisted. KoW is an empowerment of our existing set of sword attacks, which is a tactic that involves closing to close range against an opponent whose attacks were faster than Hunger's perception.
 
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Zampano said:
Flare allows us to apply an esoteric attack (from hundreds of miles away) that would otherwise be resisted. KoW is an empowerment of our existing set of sword attacks, which is a tactic that involves closing to close range against an opponent whose attacks were faster than Hunger's perception.
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Even if we had Flare, it would have been useless against a mechanical opponent. That is the obvious vector for Apocryphal attack. KoW is weaker but is always aplicable and sets us up for powerful RoB. Bloodsense can be circumvented by ghost/robotic attacks. Yes Flare is more powerful but due to blood specialization. In second form we will lose all those benefits, while KoW is always on.

EDIT: I don't know if Flare can affect the pilot when the shroud is up.
 
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[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

Reconsidered some stuff. I am doubtful about us actually getting Ruling Ring, so an effective second Progression+ added to Blood Advancement is a reasonable way to keep rapidly escalating. The fact that you could actually argue that buffs set of Blood is actually better than Winter's does not hurt.

I am also somewhat open to Saber, but idk if it is competitive at this stage.
Byzantine said:
The actual task of conquering the human sphere is kinda... trivial, in a sense.

A Hunger's rate of growth he'll effectively have outscaled the task within a few years at most. Given this task has a time frame measure in the thousands of years to accomplish this is... somewhat impressive.
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Sparsity of actually viable targets to mug for picks makes things difficult. We now need to hunt Armaments and Sovereign Astral beasts to get picks, and we'll outscale those real quick too.

RR could solve that by making training actually viable, but idk if we are going to actually get it.
 
Sharkey_smt said:
Yeah, that was the corner case with the Plenary Armament. Human pilot with blood, piloting a mechanical machine. If they are one and the same, can blood affect it?
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Probably a bit, though maybe not as much as an Armament that has more integrated biological components? That's just a guess, though.
 
Sharkey_smt said:
Yeah, that was the corner case with the Plenary Armament. Human pilot with blood, piloting a mechanical machine. If they are one and the same, can blood affect it?
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IIRC, R did mark reaching through Shroud to affect the pilot as a potentially viable attack vector during Procyon tactics discussion - our blood casting simply wasn't good enough back then.
 
I mean the trick is that with sufficient range Hunger can just ko the pilots before they ever enter their armaments. Totality can't protect them 24/7.
 
Sharkey_smt said:
Even if we had Flare, it would have been useless against a mechanical opponent. That is the obvious vector for Apocryphal attack. KoW is weaker but is always aplicable and sets us up for powerful RoB. Bloodsense can be circumvented by ghost/robotic attacks. Yes Flare is more powerful but due to blood specialization. In second form we will lose all those benefits, while KoW is always on.

EDIT: I don't know if Flare can affect the pilot when the shroud is up.
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This is uncharacteristically level headed. Are you feeling okay, detective?

Anyway, you're correct. A ghost (like an Astral Denizen?) or a robot could be an attack vector. However, with regards to the specific threat of the biomechanical Foremost Armaments that constitute strategic power in the Human Sphere, I remain confident that Bloodcasting is a more effective countermeasure than fisticuffs.

KoW doesn't really have an answer to the ranged combat & surveillance abilities from Crimson imo
 
One thing I would also like to note is that, like, in the fight against Procyon, Refinement of Quicksness following by a Artful Thorn: Deathly Star did a lot of damage, and now that Adorie's undertaken the Oath of Winter, Artful Thorn (or Pierce Through I suppose) is semi-spammable, Refinement of Quickness is even more spammable, and Deathly Star now fires with a Rank of 10. Collectively, they seem like they could now be a real showstopper, possibly even against an Armament with superior stats to Procyon.
 
Prospalz said:
Sparsity of actually viable targets to mug for picks makes things difficult. We now need to hunt Armaments and Sovereign Astral beasts to get picks, and we'll outscale those real quick too.
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That was one of the primary arguments for pillars - It allows for training 21 days a month even if we outscale the universe. This can be improved since we already tripled the time we can spend there, and know there is an advancement for visiting every night, and there is one up on offer now that almost doubles the time we can stay in it per year.
 
Byzantine said:
That was one of the primary arguments for pillars - It allows for training 21 days a month even if we outscale the universe. This can likely be improved since we already tripled the time we can spend there, and know there is an advancement for visiting every night.
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Yeah, but there were some whispers of doubts about the efficiency of pillars training lately. Maybe I saw things that aren't there, IDK.
 
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

I'm swapping to ring. It's intensely close in votes, arguments, and my own preference.
The clincher, for me, is the motivation to push for RR.
 
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