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A Simple Transaction I

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I'm becoming increasingly attracted to Myth and Legend. Here's the thing: even without Adorie, it's a huge combat buff, since Artful Thorn is one of our best offensive powers, only rivaled by Deathly Star, and being able to use it more easily is worth a lot. It also allows us to basically solo Armaments without excessive risk. So we're not tied down to Adorie to be effective.

On the other hand, if we are around Adorie, Hunger turns into an absolute monster. Speedblitzing all over the place with RoQ, and enough Artful Thorns to probably take down multiple Armaments.

Then we get feat: Saber, and the consequences of this fight are negated. Good stuff.

Finally, advanced Adorie may be able to more easily research Empyrean Signs, allowing us to work towards those 6th and 7th Signs. This is very good obviously, the 6th 7th and 7ES bonus are together worth about 52 Arete and 5 picks.

Anyway, as amazingly cool as Hunger having his own giant robot is, in terms of usefulness I'm currently rating Myth and Legend as the best.
 
ImperatorV said:
I'm becoming increasingly attracted to Myth and Legend. Here's the thing: even without Adorie, it's a huge combat buff, since Artful Thorn is one of our best offensive powers, only rivaled by Deathly Star, and being able to use it more easily is worth a lot. It also allows us to basically solo Armaments without excessive risk. So we're not tied down to Adorie to be effective.

On the other hand, if we are around Adorie, Hunger turns into an absolute monster. Speedblitzing all over the place with RoQ, and enough Artful Thorns to probably take down multiple Armaments.

Then we get feat: Saber, and the consequences of this fight are negated. Good stuff.

Finally, advanced Adorie may be able to more easily research Empyrean Signs, allowing us to work towards those 6th and 7th Signs. This is very good obviously, the 6th 7th and 7ES bonus are together worth about 52 Arete and 5 picks.

Anyway, as amazingly cool as Hunger having his own giant robot is, in terms of usefulness I'm currently rating Myth and Legend as the best.
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Here's the thing, ImperatorV.

Oath of Winter is Adorie's Relationship EFB.

That means we can buy it later, eventually.

That means we could have it and Armory of Night, simultaneously, eventually.

Imagine that for a moment. Imagine using Pierce Through, while piloting the Apocryphal Armament.
 
Rihaku said:
The functional effect of these Signs with the Set Bonus will be for Hunger either to enhance or outright manifest an Armament of his own;
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Is this better than we could expect from getting them at a later point without a discount? Because if not, I'm thinking Myth And Legend for the second (possibly third with the Haeliel mystery box) highest level of immediate power, acceleration towards getting the one that surpasses it as well, Saber as the only option on this list other than Haeliel we aren't likely to eventually see again (note, this is if it's confirmed the Armament set bonus will still be available when we get the set bonus), and negation of our horrid condition. So long as that's the case, I'm fairly certain I can argue it's clearly better than anything but the mystery box, which I can't judge. Its power comes close to Armory, gives us the potential to get Armory later where we might otherwise never see it again, and everything else is something that, at worst, Hunger can get in the epilogue from Pillars use over a few decades realtime (and that's if we don't keep playing through this full Geass task). Please note that the immediate power boost is just as crucial as the long term potential, since it hopefully enables us to put some more focus on growth boosters.
...My only complaint is we can't spend our Heroic Advancement on Ruling Ring, since there's no option to get RR, so I guess it has to go to Pillars.
 
Birdsie said:
Fixed. This is what I linked, by the way.
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Someone like that could provoke the Hour of Reckoning...

ImperatorV said:
Armory of Night either gets us super Verschengorge or The Apocryphal Armament. Notably, Super Vershcengorge allows us to take Foresleep or Grevious Exertion and not really care because we have a 4x power Armament to fight for us. Also suddenly makes Letrizia into the most relevant companion, more powerful then Hunger himself.
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There are issues with Grievous Exertion beyond the reduction in combat strength! Plus you still do actually have to cast the Signs in question, which may be difficult with crippled Rank.

Conjured Blade said:
There's a lot to read and review here but I tried Condensing the Blurbs for People. I'm not sure how precisely to Parse Sword in the Stone though at the moment.
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I think you did a good job of consolidating the myriad of benefits SitS offers! It's an incredibly powerful Advancement that also comes with a resurrection function, something that may be overlooked here.

BrainInAJar said:
What a shame, is there no way to change her mind? The most important realms this would give a boost in we already surpass; I legitimately think it would be a better investment given to someone else. Might chang vote thanks to this, depending.
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Hunger is the only member of the party to have meaningfully served as Adorie's Champion during the instigating event, so she will pick him. Even if he didn't desire this, he is not conscious to give input.
 
[X] Armory of Night
[X] Grievous Exertion

Besides turning Versch into a super armanent, who with Letz sharpbright should be extremely useful for us, we've already seen that the signs are nothing to scoff off while also getting exponentially stronger. It'd be great to get the next two immediately and activate Night Ambition.

Between the power of those extra signs and the huge jump in power from gaining a Armanent able to take on 4 on their own plus the time we're able to spend in the realm of evening soon, this seems like one of the best options for power and safety while allowing Adorie to stay in Nilfel, keeping our apocryphal curse mitigation intact.
 
Expend 5 picks, 50 Arete and the Heroic Advancement in order to receive +3 Haeliel Points and become one of Haeliel's Chosen, being empowered as per the Hero of your universe.
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being empowered as per the Hero of your universe.
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hmmm
Treasures numbering three,
Ought hero's panoply be.
Crown, Saber and Orb,
Shield, Symbol and Sword,
Blade, Mantle and Ring;
Aloft to murder a king.
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I think that this gives us (or immensely accelerates progress to) two other trinities, and whatever uber-thing we get after getting all three trinities.

Depending if Hunger still counts as a hero of Hidden Master's realm ofc

Otherwise, back to the "axiomatically good, but idk specifics" mystery box
 
I'd like to remind people of something. This entire mess started because we baited the Apocryphal Curse. Grievous Exertion Baits an apocryphal proc our way. Apocryphal Curse Mitigation is a moving average. The Apocryphal mitigation is a lower hypothetical average proc strength in the realm of evening. Outliers are possible.

[x]Armory of Night

[x]Over-refined
 
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agumentic said:
Armory of Night is simply access to 6th and 7th Evening Signs, which Myth and Legend would even accelerate. So we can get both of them simultaneously eventually in any case.
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The form that the Signs take is context dependent. It's unlikely that we could get an Armament-generating Sign to drop again without fighting and killing another Armament, and if we're able to just casually kill an Armament for a Signs drop we probably aren't going to gain much from being able to make one ourself.

Meanwhile, Praxis improvements are always relevant.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Yep. I was mostly wondering why this was a vote worth buying, or rather, which of the options was worth buying the vote for.
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While I really do think I like Armory best and also think that Armory is the hardest for us to buy at another point, I'm really mostly buying your vote so that you don't vote Lessening, since Lessening winning functionally gets rid of all the high cost options, which are the ones I like the most.
 
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Aabcehmu said:
Really, while I really do think I like Armory best and also think that Armory is the hardest for us to buy at another point, I'm really mostly buying your vote so that you don't vote Lessening, since Lessening winning functionally gets rid of all the high cost options, which are the ones I like the most.
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My plan for that is to just generate another ~15 Arete. That sounds doable, right?
 
Minor (but possibly interesting) point: The Forebear seems to draw a lot of his strength and utility effects from unimitigated/unmitigatable curses. Uttermost allowed access to the Praxis... but made mitigation of Tyrant impossible. The Foresleep allowed rest and recuperation without further complications... and is also an unimitigatable version of Slumber.
Thoughts?
 
[X] A King For All Seasons
[X] Least Foresleep

Not only do we get to abuse Refinement of Quickness that much more, we also get shitton of praxis picks + SiTS. We can literally access the Imperial Praxis or double down on powerful techs, plus the safety bonus from SiTS.
 
A consideration: Affliction of Slumber does bad things to time-dilation.

Will it interact badly with the Realm of Evening? We have a lot of Decimator mitigation relying on Pillars and getting nerfed would be really painful...

this is an exciting vote but i have a dissertation to write so throw tomatoes at me if you see me effort posting before Sunday.

(I'll still try to vote for something, and may entertain selling my vote depending on which options seem to be viable as things develop...)
 
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TBH I'd really like to see the Evening Armament, clad in the armor of midnight and firing deathly stars as weapons. It's just so cool.

It's just kinda hard to take here. Grievous Exertion may prevent us from summoning our Armament at all, and baiting an Apocryphal Proc when we've gained nothing, have -80% Praxis capability and -2 rank is really bad. Foresleep is much better in the short term, but is a severe detriment in the long term. Even with Gisena nerfing it Slumber eats a lot of our ability to act freely, and creates a weak-point that the Apocryphal can strike us at. Over-refined is a big hit to our combat power, but restricts our actions much less then Foresleep and doesn't have the weakness. I'm not sure anyone will want to give up on Praxis for a year though, not unless we have a big timeskip so it passes quickly, and with the Human Sphere War going on that sounds unlikely.
 
I'm waxing Narrativist right now for some reason.

Heroic Upgrade for Reference: A Heroic Upgrade will grant the Advancement a unique, highly powerful, and otherwise difficult-to-replicate enhancement.

Over-Refined+Armory of Night: It's like a Genre Change. We get a big upgrade to one of the non-praxis advancements we already have, but the lions share of our power becomes our Robot. It could be interesting in terms of the cameraderie with Letrezia. We also don't bait the Apocryphal Curse. We could upgrade the Outer Shadow for example and maybe get a shot at Outer Darkness again. Or the Opalescent Tower. Or our Blood Powers.
 
ImperatorV said:
over-refined is a big hit to our combat power
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I thought this is only relevant for about 1 week outside the Realm of evening, though?

Remember that when we come out of the Pillars, it'll be like the Apocryphal has had 1 week to charge up. If Apocryphal activates while we are inside Pillars, it will have even less power to spend.
 
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