the rune carved in findross,
I don't believe that this would actually do anything, as unlike the Arcanists runes, which are powered by what they are carved onto, the Praxis is developed and powered entirely by the self and operates on the most fundamental laws of reality in the Rihakuverse.

Writing them onto Findross would likely weaken them, as the levels of reality below the Realm of Forms are a shadow of it and the light emitted from Praxis runes comes from the Firmament they are carved into. Given what we know about the Praxis we can assume that the Firmament is the most fundamental level of reality, with the shadows produced by its light being the lower levels of reality below the Realm of Forms, Findross is definitely not a better medium to write Praxis runes in as it isn't operating on a level of reality more fundamental to existence than the Realm of Forms.
 
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Basically, the idea is that each user in the thread responds to the previous Cardinal and writes up another set of four spells. The ultimate goal is to stockpile a grand number of 360 Cardinals in total, or 1,440 spells. It's a collaborative effort!

Assuming that the users in the thread participate as projected, this should feed us a healthy and constant stream of Arete that everyone can bolster. On top of that, it ought to be most interesting to read.
Are there any guidelines for what kinds of things a new Cardinals spells should be, other then that all 4 in a cardinal start with the same letter?
 
Day 31:

I love the way your golden eyes pierce fiercely into mine. We're meant to be. Our love is fated. What was his name again? Ah yes, Lord Hunger. I needed to learn more about him so I decided I will stalk him tomorrow.
What, Aeira too focused on Hunger going without a shirt to forego an obligatory mention of Hunger's eyepatch and how much it adds to his brooding demeanor? Methinks her priorities are skewed. :V
Also, kudos on how much cringe yet horrified fascination this omake has induced while reading it, thank the Accursed it's over.
 
What, Aeira too focused on Hunger going without a shirt to forego an obligatory mention of Hunger's eyepatch and how much it adds to his brooding demeanor? Methinks her priorities are skewed. :V
Also, kudos on how much cringe yet horrified fascination this omake has induced while reading it, thank the Accursed it's over.
YA Aeira is not shallow like that. Also there is not cringe, just pure love. But a cynical voter like yourself will never understand it.

EDIT: Real talk, I actually don't know how people read such YA drivel. I know taste is subjective and all that jazz, but holy shit I was cringing when writing some of the examples.
 
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You know I got you babe Rihaku
Adhoc vote count started by Rah13 on Nov 14, 2020 at 2:18 PM, finished with 329 posts and 65 votes.
 
I've updated the ending of Needs Must, and I think I'm going to call a re-vote on account of the new information. Also, @Orm Embar, tagging you because I think you might appreciate it - if not, my apologies.
When I touch down, the road ahead is slick with - yes, that's blood. The mostly-exploded corpses give it away, most of them posed cheerily. Furthermore, the blood shimmers organically and resolves into a giant screen, showing what can only be Jack Slash.
"Welcome, hero! The Livingston Fair has been announced, and fabulous prizes are here to be won!" The screen changes to show a whole town's worth of innocents, slowly being fed into torture machines by spiderbot-zombies. In the background, I spy a real-looking sign saying 'Slaughterhouse Creek'.
Then it shows various challenges - a forest obstacle-course, apparently for racing the Siberian. Monstrous cyborgs who were probably parahumans in life, posing on the roof of a hunting supply shop. Crawler, prowling a massive arena made from a car lot, with what must be Belabor off to the side cracking his whip-chains. Shatterbird, floating in a chapel, holding a book I can't quite make out. And what must be Miasma, in a cloud of purple mist so thick I'm not even sure he's inside. Then it switches back to Jack.
"Will you win, and become the hero of the hour? Or will you fail, and return in disgrace? Cheating is, as always, prohibited - unless you don't get caught." He winks, and the screen goes dark.

Well.
Presumably Mannequin and Hatchet Face, on account of their stealth foci, don't get early reveals. Neither does Jack.
Who do I target first?

[ ] Jack. Most important to kill by a significant margin, but also going to make them stop playing.
[ ] Siberian. I might be able to spin this one as an accident, and doubles as a significant asset denial. Without her, the others can be nuked.
[ ] Bonesaw. Possibly even more important asset denial, and the most important to turn. I'd want tactics.
[ ] Shatterbird. Without her, Dragon has a fair shot at soloing these guys. Also, considerably eases artillery support.
[ ] The Victims. An obvious trap. A really obvious trap. But I might be able to avoid it, sort of, if I head there and ask for a task worth freeing them over. And my defenses are possibly the strongest in the world right now...
[ ] Write-in. Hatchet Face, Crawler, Mannequin, Miasma, Bonesaw's Miniboss Squad, and the possible recruits are all valid targets to look for. Probably save more civilians that way, and maybe getting used to fighting will be worth a bit of time?

A/N: I wanted to get this out before the month was unambiguously over, so the teaser sequence is not fully described. I may edit more in come Monday. Happy Halloween!
UPDATE: Done! The situation is significantly different now, although the wordcount is not much changed.
 
Hmm. Entirely unrelated to anything going on currently but I wonder if Progression ever reaches a point where each additional level (under Seram's system) represents more power than all the previous levels earned combined.

Easily I'd say. While levels seem somewhat linear at first, due to the nature of the system, the boost eventually becomes multiplicative, then exponential and later hyper exponential. This will continue to extend to additional dimensions and types of power etc. This means there will eventually be a point where the power multiplier will be larger than the amount of levels you have, and thus the increase must be larger than all your previous power combined (it will probably happen a bit sooner).

A bit like essence in exalted. Though essence is not really a perfect example, since the gaps are larger, it's slower to advance and it's capped at 10. I wonder what increasing essence without limit would look like, might even scale up faster than the levels (in power per level, cursebearer leveling is undoubtedly faster).
 
Are there any guidelines for what kinds of things a new Cardinals spells should be, other then that all 4 in a cardinal start with the same letter?
Nope. Unlike the Ordinal Spiral, the Cardinal Geometer is meant to hold no such limitations! Imagination, power, wild recklessness, and grandeur! That's what we're aiming for - beat the Spiral and conquer it!
 
Also, kudos on how much cringe yet horrified fascination this omake has induced while reading it, thank the Accursed it's over.
But how am I supposed to laugh at YA Aeria if she's dead?
I've updated the ending of Needs Must, and I think I'm going to call a re-vote on account of the new information. Also, @Orm Embar, tagging you because I think you might appreciate it - if not, my apologies.
[DD] Jack.
Without his power it'll become much easier for parahumans to contribute meaningfully.
 
[D] Jack.

Not only will our parahuman allies have an easier time getting in without him interfering, getting him out of the way, as I've said before, allows us to attack the coherence of the S9 as a group, and maybe even turn some of its members against each other.
 
[DD] Jack.

I agree with the points above wholeheartedly. Jack is the lynchpin here; he essentially embodies the Nine. Without him, the serial killers have much less of a chance to cooperate let alone continue on as they were. Once they dissolve, hunting them down would be easier.
 
Yeah. It's a cruel and heartless idea, perhaps too much for the SI, but killing Jack and then fleeing with the tinkers would still be a win overall, even if I hope we'll be able to bag a few more than that.
 
I don't believe that this would actually do anything, as unlike the Arcanists runes, which are powered by what they are carved onto, the Praxis is developed and powered entirely by the self and operates on the most fundamental laws of reality in the Rihakuverse.

Writing them onto Findross would likely weaken them, as the levels of reality below the Realm of Forms are a shadow of it and the light emitted from Praxis runes comes from the Firmament they are carved into. Given what we know about the Praxis we can assume that the Firmament is the most fundamental level of reality, with the shadows produced by its light being the lower levels of reality below the Realm of Forms, Findross is definitely not a better medium to write Praxis runes in as it isn't operating on a level of reality more fundamental to existence than the Realm of Forms.

Versch was created by the Foremost, and held inside him a library that taught the classical form of the Praxis. The classical form involves carving blue runes that then do magic. The Foremost wrote an entire book series about blue-glowing praxis runes. They then stored that book series inside the Implement that they used to implement their magic spells, exactly like how I have a whole bunch of books and reference materials related to my job sitting next to my desk. Given that books are typically created in large quantities with the specific goal of widely distributing knowledge, I think it's reasonable to assume that the blue-glowing runes in the wall and the blue-glowing runes carved by Hunger are in fact the same phenomenon and that this is a semi-standard construction method used wherever the Builders went.

Except from what we've seen the blue-glowing praxis runes in the wall appear to incorporate golden findross.

They arrived at last at the Walls of Myth which encircled their destination realm. The Walls seemed a nigh-impassible barrier: semi-translucent battlements reaching limitlessly skywards and spanning to the horizon, their wavering distortion-surface thick with runes of golden azure. Raw magic, sheer conceptual weight seeped from the surface of the walls, a heady denseness of reality that stultified mind and spirit, Pressure more comprehensive than even that of Astral Rank.

The Foremost really knew what they were doing, so if they think golden findross + blue praxis is better than just praxis then I think Hunger should copy them.
 
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Here's a tactic for if we don't get Foe Defeating Stance: Dodge-Tanking

The All-Defeating Stance applies the power of ruin against all incoming attacks. Versch's main attacks are melee, but Procyon has the advantage of full ammunition. If Hunger first focuses on evading Procyon's arsenal then then when they close the distance to melee range, every punch that hits the Armor of Midnight will actually do damage to Procyon himself.

This is Dark Souls and we're running a fast roll build, basically.
 
Here's a tactic for if we don't get Foe Defeating Stance: Dodge-Tanking

The All-Defeating Stance applies the power of ruin against all incoming attacks. Versch's main attacks are melee, but Procyon has the advantage of full ammunition. If Hunger first focuses on evading Procyon's arsenal then then when they close the distance to melee range, every punch that hits the Armor of Midnight will actually do damage to Procyon himself.

This is Dark Souls and we're running a fast roll build, basically.
Do we know how fast Hunger can switch Stances?
 
For everyone voting for Foe Defeating stance, we can't use all-defeating and foe defeating at the same time, and also it's a waste of Arete, see this post below which Rihaku rated insightful.

Hmm. Isn't it better to buy some of the individual components (we can use four including ADS IIRC) of the FDS without the stance itself? Unlike FDS, they could be used simultaneously with ADS. I wouldn't gamble on FDS being so much better than ADS in this situation that it alone would let us pull through.

...though I guess this whole situation is one giant gamble. Still, the Shattering Blow's costs are too great. This isn't our last fight by far.
 
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C was just used, but Ch represents a completely different sound, and why should Cardinalism bow to such whimsical structure as English? There's probably a language that has Ch as a character of its own, separate from C, after all. 1171 words.
(I can't seem to get the quote from the previous submission working, sorry.)
Chance - this spell does not require any spoken, somatic, or material components. once set running, a purely mental act, the spell is largely self-maintaining. in terms of function, the spell alters the variation of acts in its vicinity, seemingly bending probability itself. This is largely an illusion, of course; rather then bending probability, it would be more accurate to say that it adds an additional positive influence to any act with possibility of both success and failure. represented on a game system, it would be more accurate to consider this a bonus to skill checks then a source of rerolls. Some kinds of probability are beyond the spells capabilities to affect; powerful creatures will generally be resistant or immune, even if they enter its fairly-limited base range. Lastly, without Clarity cardinal or a divinatory effect, the spell will be unable to divine the most favourable outcome if it is non-obvious, preventing trivial divination of arbitrary information via repeated coin-tossing.

More skilled use of this Cardinal improves the magnitude of the effect, the range of outcomes it can influence, and the accuracy of its determinations of benefit, but it will almost never reach visible reality-warping unless one has taken hundreds of other Cardinals whos benefits amplify it.

Choosing this Cardinal improves the Limits of the users other Cardinals, altering the upper bound on their power, efficiency, and other qualities. It does not significantly improve the baseline probability of the best effects, but the direct operation of the spell handles that.

Charge - this spell is closer in practice to a metamagic effect. In its base state, it can be used to store up physical energy for a motion while not preforming that particular motion, and then preform that motion with power equal to the users ordinary strength, times the amount of time spent charging. This would generally be an underwhelming effect, hardly worthy of the Cardinal Geometer at all, if it was not also possible to apply to other spells. By multiplying the casting time or energy consumption of a spell, depending on which is the most salient part of the spells cost, the spells overall effectiveness is increased accordingly. There is a certain extent of diminishing returns when multiplying energy consumption past the original size of the users energy pool, as storing energy further is lossy, but this does not apply to casting time multipliers.

sufficiently skilled use of this cardinal allows for control over which costs are multiplied in cases of ambiguity, and reduces the energy loss when casting a spell greater then ones reserves. As well, a skilled user can keep a Charged action indefinitely even while preforming the same action in a non-charged manner, granting significantly improved capabilities even without warning.

Choosing this Cardinal, in addition to its above effects, passively improves the Capacity of other Cardinals and mana-style resources, allowing for greater use in succession or for more mana to be poured into a spell even without activating the Cardinal.

Chi - Ah, the path to shameful muscle wizardry. Inefficient, sweaty, biological, and unpleasant to train, muscle wizards use their bodies and their spells, which means less time on spells overall. Chi grants various abilities, such as energy blasts, flight, and wasteful, brute, physical force, but their utility is far outweighed, not just by the utility of any of the other four Cardinals in this set, but by the sheer virtue of not being a muscle wizard! truly, anyone who takes this Cardinal must have taken leave of their senses.
...perhaps I allowed my prejudice to get a bit ahead of me there. This is supposed to be an impartial account, after all. While I can't personally see the appeal of Chi over the power of Charge, the utility of Chant, or the convenient benefits of Chance, I do have an understanding of their proponents counterarguments. the Chi Cardinal doesn't simply grant access to a separate and inferior pseudo-magic system of Chi, but a sort of mastery. While of course time is still necessary to master the Chi Cardinal itself, users of the Chi Cardinal essentially have supernatural talent in the Chi system, as the Cardinal allows them almost-complete control over their Chi at all times, as well as improving their quantity and quality of Chi, and any other benefits other Cardinals have granted the user. It's also a comparatively simple road to various dedicated utilities, such has superhuman vitality, resilience, rejuvenation of oneself and others, immortality- against age, but not harm, a projectile attack... but it shamefully provides Muscles as well, which is something many people cannot abide. Sufficiently skilled users of the Chi Cardinal can even awaken the system in others, which- if one can stomach the Muscles that will come with it- is yet another reason not to take the Cardinal yourself, as many of its benefits can be passed on.

Choosing this Cardinal improves the Vibrancy of the users other Cardinals, granting all spells an inherent resistance to disruption, dispellation, and deterioration, as well as a small mind maintaining or improving the effects. At sufficiently high levels, this can grant genuine life to some types of spells.

Chant - Perhaps the most versatile of the Cardinals in this set, the Chant cardinal is very simple to activate: you need only chant something, a word, phrase, or sound, to activate it. Its power is fairly lacklustre when you do so, however, no greater then the benefits of the Chance cardinal, and benefiting only towards the accomplishment of things related to the word or phrase, or the symbolism of the sound. Besides which, they require the user to continually Chant, which is not only embarrassing and unsubtle, but difficult to maintain in active combat or during exertion, or during many other spells. The true use of this Cardinal, then, is in groups: The Chants power scales to the number of Chantees, with mundane helpers roughly half as efficient as a first-level Cardinalist. this captures mostly the waste or excess magical energy emanating from the Chanters, so the very greatest Cardinalists, Archmages, etcetra will counter-intuitively provide minimal benefit, and it will not drain the power of the other chanters. It's very difficult to turn this against the members of the Chant, since the goal of the chant will be clear when using words, and it would require more convincing to get people to chant a meaningless sound. When used in groups, Range, magnitude, blatancy, and variety of effect all increase, such that a moderate group chanting "Earth Spike" will be able to conjure a spike roughly the size of a human and launch it, while a single user will only be able to manifest one perhaps the size of their finger, or more likely, slightly increase the likelihood of a nearby stalactite falling.

Choosing this Cardinal improves the Collaboration of the users other Cardinals, making them more powerful or effective when used in combination with another Cardinalist, either as multiple people applying the same effect, or separate effects applied for a single goal, as well as slightly increasing the ease of using multiple Cardinals at once.
 
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I think it's generous to assume that Procyon can hurt himself punching into Hunger's Ruin, but that's still good tactics, Zamp.
Sounds like any tactic is gonna involve some generous assumptions. But sometimes people roll a Nat 20, and our odds are technically *higher* than getting a Nat 20 if people keep proposing ideas...

Do we know how fast Hunger can switch Stances?
There's a quote about this in the index:
It doesn't take long to swap Stances in the first place, though doing it constantly does lead to side effects...

I'm not sure what that means. I can't imagine Rihaku running out of patience for build votes, so there might be a decision point between
[] buy the component stances of FDS
[] buy FDS in full, which is mutually exclusive with ADS
 
Huh.

Also, IMO it's unlikely that buying the FDS components will result in anything as significant as buying FDS itself, just going from comparing ADS to its components.

Yeah, we can't be in both simultaneously, but now equipped with the knowledge that stance switching is a valid tactic as long as it's something we only do rarely, I think obtaining the advanced benefits of FDS would be worthwhile.

Plus, I get the feeling that there are advancements that are locked behind having both EFB stances, and Cool Blurbs are always nice.
 
Yeah, we can't be in both simultaneously, but now equipped with the knowledge that stance switching is a valid tactic as long as it's something we only do rarely, I think obtaining the advanced benefits of FDS would be worthwhile.
The issue for me isn't frequency so much as speed: the Armament is still faster than Hunger and any time delay might be a problem.

Basically, this is something where QM knowledge about the system makes it hard for players to make an informed decision. I'm voting FDS as a signal to say "there is a snap-buy available and we have enough Arete to pay for it."

We might just have to trust that Hunger/Rihaku will invest the Arete efficiently.
 
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