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A Simple Transaction I

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Sacrificing Letrizia is an option. You can just give them what they want and then rezz her later.
 
Shard said:
Sacrificing Letrizia is an option. You can just give them what they want and then rezz her later.
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True.

How many times can Hunger apply Artful Thorn and how fast in a battle? If Gisena can hit Procyon with True Nullity and we can get Verschlengorge to distract it for a moment, could Hunger plausibly deal sufficient damage to critical points to disable or weaken it to a state where fighting it would be easier?
 
Orm Embar said:
To flee from a greater power right after Hunger's direct investiture by the Seraph of Heroism herself would be a bitter turn indeed, the promise of deliverance and justice gone silent in the face of mere strength. But that doesn't mean Hunger has to be an idiot about this. Favor becomes geometrically more powerful the more OaF Advancements he takes and I have faith that, with Hunger's extensive experience in risktaking, he can scare up a two-pick fight to get the next in the series. A transcendent shounen murderhobo prevails by picking the right fights, in the right order. Here's hoping we don't delve too deep and wake Augustine's mother by accident...

[X] Call Up
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[X] Call Up

Hard agree from me.
 
Rihaku said:
[ ] Plenary Brand - Like a blazing sun, the radiance of your power is wholly unconstrained, and the shadow of your potential looms perilously, a pall over reality that is impossible to ignore. The truth of your essential nature is broadcast without concealment or pretext. Even if it would normally do so, this effect will not cause others to like you more.

You automatically attract the attention of everyone who perceives you, and your rough capabilities are made apparent to them, to whatever degree they can reasonably comprehend. Disguise is impossible, your nature is blindingly obvious, and enemies so informed of your abilities will act accordingly. Snip Progression-types in the bud with overwhelming strength, retreat and attempt to outscale Combat-types, etc. One of a Cursebearer's greatest strengths is the ability to grow in power undetected by the mighty; anonymity is very often the greatest defense. With this Curse, enemies will never overlook or forget the severity of the threat you pose. Even ostensible allies will likely foment contingency plans.

The Plenary Brand overpowers any forms of stealth or misdirection you might attempt. Furthermore, in any situation where it is remotely reasonable to do so, all enemies will focus their efforts on defeating you first.

Unlike most Curses, the strength of this Brand slowly increases with time. Unless efforts are paid towards mitigation, your mere existence will eventually sear ten billion impressions of yourself into the minds of your allies, rendering them comatose, while your enemies become monomaniacally determined to end you.
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Rihaku said:
[ ] Doom of Lunacy - The large majority of your power (75%) is sealed within a monstrous battle-form that forcefully emerges under conditions of extreme duress. You may voluntarily enter this form, but doing so causes you to go absolutely berserk, attacking without regard to friend or foe until everything in your vicinity is destroyed. Affected area scales with your power, but is always very large. Anyone who perceives the form is afflicted by terror and hatred as if by a Brand-type Curse; all but the most stalwart of allies will turn upon you in the face of it.

This Curse can be only be effectively mitigated by one means. Very occasionally you will encounter certain individuals that are highly compatible with you in some way. It is highly likely that any such individual(s) will be substantially weaker than you in most regards. In their presence the Doom will begin to shift to the Geas of Lunacy, if you do not suppress the change. The Geas of Lunacy does not limit your power in any way, but afflicts you with an unhealthy level of devotion to the individual in question. Their happiness and safety are certainly more important than your own and you will find it difficult to refuse even their slightest whims. It is always surprisingly difficult to augment their power beyond its natural rate of progression.
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The relevant curses, for reference.

So, one thing I noticed.

Plenary: Furthermore, in any situation where it is remotely reasonable to do so, all enemies will focus their efforts on defeating you first.
Doom of Lunacy: may voluntarily enter this form, but doing so causes you to go absolutely berserk, attacking without regard to friend or foe until everything in your vicinity is destroyed.

So, if we figured out how to get Procyon and Fervenweirr in the same area (Nightmare Flight Procyon? Surrender to Procyon, then instigate social warfare against Fervenweirr?), then proc'ed the latter's Doom of Lunacy, our problems will solve each other. With some.. ..collateral.. damage. How nice, really. I've just written up a set of apocalyptic powers with horrifying collateral damage for an unrelated superpower.
 
[X] Call Up

Guess I'll just change my vote now so we can keep up momentum; since we know we have OaF III unlocked gunning for it is a very viable alternative, and it doesn't leave Niefel to hang due to our own choices. One might call this fundamentally responsible.
Birdsie said:
If there's still corpses left over after Procyon turns them to meaty paste, sure.

Like his death scene? I'm sorry, but any fight is untenable here; we're fighting against a goddamn Armament at full strength. Procyon is more than capable of literally grinding our corpses into dust at hypersonic velocities. I'm not confident, even with rerolls.
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They likely won't need corpses to be resurrected; it's magic, bro. Also lul at Procyon being hypersonic; we were hypersonic back at our first Elixir visit. Procyon is FTL easily and likely hilariously so.

But now that I have changed my vote, can I convince you to change to Call Up? We know for sure we have a possible out to this situation with OaF III plus whatever more we find; and this vote would not risk the citizens of Niefel and allow us to preserve the heroic resolution we were just given. Letting other suffer to preserve your own life is the very opposite of heroism, and how can we claim to champion it if we do not stand for it's principles.

And it's also very much not suicidal, since you care so much about that. We have won on much worse odds in the past, and we have clear ways in which Call Up can clearly advantage us. Some inefficiencies to preserve more heroic inclinations is something I will always take.
 
BrainInAJar said:
[X] Hold the Line

Pfeh. We were so eager to accept the favor of heroism before, but now that we must be encharged with its duties people would rather run away. Where did that resolution against could calculus go?

I'm not going to say fighting Procyon directly is the best idea. I can say it's the most expedient solution to the problem we face, and we are fighting just before our first Realm of Evening trip, something that could heal any Conditions we have and even revive dead Companions, meaning the consequences of an action like this have been lower than ever. And I will also say that using our teamwork to take down an Armament would be really, really cool.
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Bruh, we are going to die against 5 pick fight. We actually have a rough estimation of 5 pick power level power level
Rihaku said:
[ ] A Fish Out of Legend - Rumor foretells of a continental beast whose overturnings send entire oceans a-roil, whose roar is the death of island chains and whose latticed fin in rise-and-fall spawns tsunami waves capable of wiping entire civilizations away like grout before the cleaner. To confront a beast of this scale, even with Hunger's superhuman agility, is surely folly. And yet the mechanics of Rank are such that only he who dares may win. Venture deep, deep into the vast pitiless blue of the Voyaging Sea, far past all hope of returning to shore from whence you departed; there in the endless azure dark will you find the shadow of the Armament-Fish, whose embryonic thrashings are an Ereadhihr's birth-throes.
*Hunger desires to seek out this legend and seize immortality among the fishermen's ranks.
*Are you fucking crazy
*Risk: Insane
*Reward: 5 picks + variable, but undoubtedly great, Rank reward depending on tactics and results
*Securing an additional Armament, even if incomplete, would be an enormous coup. There are fewer than two dozen across the entire Human Sphere, each one irreplaceable and unique.
*Hunger's build is actually quite well-suited to fighting opponents of higher Rank, and will be even more so once he completes his Trinity of Artifact EFB-equivalents. That said, this is still absurdly risky, but perhaps with the power of the Praxis as well...
*Why would you pick this
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After that we gained 5 EfBs (Sliver,Tower,Tears,OaF,ADS) + 2 Rank updates ( Feat: Reckoner + Crown ) + Trinity + King of Winter title (+7 Arete spent on 30% attack speed) and do you know what happened?

We reduced the fish to 3 pick fight. All that power we gained and it was still 3 pick. 5 pick fights are death sentence. Honestly anything else besides Fall Back is idiotically over optimistic (Rihaku`s words btw). I doubt OaF 3 would actully be the salvation. We need probably praxis EFBs to fight that monster.
 
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Sharkey_smt said:
Bruh, we are going to die against 5 pick fight. We actually have a rough estimation of 5 pick power level power level

After that we gained 5 EfBs (Sliver,Tower,Tears,OaF,ADS) + 2 Rank updates ( Feat: Reckoner + Crown ) + Trinity + King of Winter titel (+7 Arete spent on 30% attack speed) and do you know what happened?

We reduced the fish to 3 pick fight. All that power we gained and it was still 3 pick. 5 pick fights are death sentence. Honestly anything else besides Fall Back is idiotically over optimistic (Rihaku`s words btw). I doubt OaF 3 would actully be the salvation. We need probably praxis EFBs to fight that monster.
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Man, you sure do look silly right about now, let me preserve this post for posterity!
 
Birdsie said:
[ ] Sacred Restoration - Aqua's wellspring of divine energy is restored at once, and she becomes ready and capable of mitigating another level of Kazuma's curses at once; two curses will be mitigated immediately, two more in less than a week. Why this is useful, I do not think I need to say.

Aqua's future Progression options will focus more on curse mitigation and restoration/healing.
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This is just straight up way better than the other options, even if Stage III is far off, accelerating Stage II means that Kazuma will have to bear a lot less weight from his Curses. Without Curses the power of Progression is utterly and totally busted, no additional capabilities necessary.

Birdsie said:
[ ] A Witch's Love - Subaru receives a low degree of control over Return by Death. He starts to comprehend where his current 'save slot' is, and he can sometimes force the creation of a new one when it would be appropriate, or warp further back to the original save point. He is also no longer forbidden from indicating that he possesses Return by Death.
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The Cardinal upgrades are really nice, but we already have Kazuma for really nice interventions into the physical world. This focuses on Subaru's unique ability of time travel. Telekinesis is amazing, but save-states are usually better still.

Sharkey_smt said:
Bruh, we are going to die against 5 pick fight. We actually have a rough estimation of 5 pick power level power level

After that we gained 5 EfBs (Sliver,Tower,Tears,OaF,ADS) + 2 Rank updates ( Feat: Reckoner + Crown ) + Trinity + King of Winter title (+7 Arete spent on 30% attack speed) and do you know what happened?

We reduced the fish to 3 pick fight. All that power we gained and it was still 3 pick. 5 pick fights are death sentence. Honestly anything else besides Fall Back is idiotically over optimistic (Rihaku`s words btw). I doubt OaF 3 would actully be the salvation. We need probably praxis EFBs to fight that monster.
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Trinity was technically a Rank upgrade as well! Though the extra two Artifact slots have aided Hunger immensely in recent times...
 
Here's one solution (lmao the collateral damage):

1. Nightmare Flight to Voyaging City. Aggro Fervenweirr, then get them to chase us all the way to the Realm of Myth.
2. Make Fervenweirr voluntarily enter Doom of Lunacy.
3. Fireworks.
 
Rihaku said:
You can't outrun Procyon in Versch, Procyon is currently far stronger.

If you teleport in front of them, it's not really any different than teleporting outside their view, since in either case they'll continue attacking Nilfel until their diviners know where you went (several hours at minimum). You could try yelling a destination, but why would they believe you?
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...Ring of Truth.

Like, seriously - is it possible for Gisena and maybe Letrizia to speedrun a "make the truth evident" effect?
 
Shard said:
The relevant curses, for reference.

So, one thing I noticed.

Plenary: Furthermore, in any situation where it is remotely reasonable to do so, all enemies will focus their efforts on defeating you first.
Doom of Lunacy: may voluntarily enter this form, but doing so causes you to go absolutely berserk, attacking without regard to friend or foe until everything in your vicinity is destroyed.

So, if we figured out how to get Procyon and Fervenweirr in the same area (Nightmare Flight Procyon? Surrender to Procyon, then instigate social warfare against Fervenweirr?), then proc'ed the latter's Doom of Lunacy, our problems will solve each other. With some.. ..collateral.. damage. How nice, really. I've just written up a set of apocalyptic powers with horrifying collateral damage for an unrelated superpower.
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Remember that Lunacy only triggers the berserker state when it's voluntarily triggered, involuntary triggers from extreme duress maintain full control...

Also, you'd still have to deal with the Armament that won!
 
BrainInAJar said:
And it's also very much not suicidal, since you care so much about that. We have won on much worse odds in the past, and we have clear ways in which Call Up can clearly advantage us. Some inefficiencies to preserve more heroic inclinations is something I will always take.
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Ekhhh.

Fine. You make an adequate argument.

[X] Call Up

Shard said:
Here's one solution (lmao the collateral damage):

1. Nightmare Flight to Voyaging City. Aggro Fervenweirr, then get them to chase us all the way to the Realm of Myth.
2. Make Fervenweirr voluntarily enter Doom of Lunacy.
3. Fireworks.
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I'd definitely go for this, but is it an option?
 
Rihaku said:
Remember that Lunacy only triggers the berserker state when it's voluntarily triggered, involuntary triggers from extreme duress maintain full control...

Also, you'd still have to deal with the Armament that won!
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How many picks would a Fervenweirr exhausted from Procyon be? Also how long would the battle between the two take?
 
I'm surprised no-one has said we could likely flash-buy a Praxis EFB if we choose Hold the Line, it would be near the perfect opportunity for it. If we get some kind of Refinement of Rank, it could be just what give sus the cahnce to succeed.
Sharkey_smt said:
After that we gained 5 EfBs (Sliver,Tower,Tears,OaF,ADS) + 2 Rank updates ( Feat: Reckoner + Crown ) + Trinity + King of Winter title (+7 Arete spent on 30% attack speed) and do you know what happened?

We reduced the fish to 3 pick fight. All that power we gained and it was still 3 pick. 5 pick fights are death sentence. Honestly anything else besides Fall Back is idiotically over optimistic (Rihaku`s words btw). I doubt OaF 3 would actully be the salvation. We need probably praxis EFBs to fight that monster.
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For the record, I do think getting OaF III would reduce the Armament to at least a 4 pick fight; since getting it normally is gated behind 75 Arete and five total picks. It costs more than Trinity did; and that benefit was build-defining. And there's still a chance to pick up Foremost lore that can advantage us well, plus even a bonus 7 Arete pick given generation plus current reserves. Plus not leaving the citizens of Niefel hanging is much more important to me, so whatever.
 
Shard said:
Here's one solution (lmao the collateral damage):

1. Nightmare Flight to Voyaging City. Aggro Fervenweirr, then get them to chase us all the way to the Realm of Myth.
2. Make Fervenweirr voluntarily enter Doom of Lunacy.
3. Fireworks.
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He's not going to chase us without being provoked into Lunacy Rage in the first place, which we won't be able to outrun. We might not even be able to outrun a non-procced Fervenweirr!

And that's leaving aside how long it would take us to make it back to the Realm of Myth overland, how exhausting it would be, and how we would be out of Nightmare Flight to escape Procyon and Fervenweirr. This plan is worse than Fall Back on the face of it, since it requires equivalent or worse abandonment of the Nilfellians with less promising results.
 
[X]Fall Back

Being a Progression type means taking the cowardly route sometimes. The point of Progression is to outscale incredible threats, not try our hands at life and death gambles.

Additionally, a fair few of our recent powerups have been delayed-reward or not directly combat relevant. We need some time to benefit from the fruits of our labor.

Don't give the Apocryphal Curse a chance to turn this fight into our last. Even if Call Up does grant us a decisive advantage over Procyon, that can turn right around on us in an instant if Apocryphal wishes it to be so.
 
[X] Call Up

Hunger picked the options with some risk in exchange for more power and heroics for the entire quest, and I see no reason to change it now when we just picked a favour from the patron of Heroism.
 
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