Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
Where else do you throw garbage?
edit: The eye that gets scooped out is the garbage is what I'm getting at.
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A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Where else do you throw garbage?
edit: The eye that gets scooped out is the garbage is what I'm getting at.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
You could so me a favor and quote all my vote in all the updates and my precise reasoning behind all of them instead of asking me to do it. What categorically unfun shit to ask someone to do when they are just trying to bow out of an argument. As a matter of fact, litigation of all my past votes is pretty horrible for me, so don't actually do it.
But let's suppose that I have indeed been part and active participant of the 'MOAR RISK MOAR POWER' train for the entirety of the quest; Does that require that I retain those preference even in light of new information and perspective?
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Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
This is 100% valid and I apologize for the unfun tangent. Point withdrawn
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
It's not entirely clear how Favor will create problems to acquire this power. The best combination for safety is probably Favor + Haeliel bailing us out. As a matter of comparison, we already have several problems on our plate that force us to accumulate power. Here are a few examples: escalating to win the Geas task, outpacing Apocryphal, outpacing Aobaru's hunter, sating Decimator procs, etcetera.
Here's how we break out of that cycle: by shoring up a severe deficit in our build AND reducing Apocryphal procs by 5%, we end up needing to acquire less power overall. I think stating that we acquire power simply from surviving is erroneous: it requires the active and engaged pursuit of conflict to get picks. Thus, the logic of my point is simple: increasing our rate of progression, we spend more wordcount on character interactions and lore description, which is personally why I enjoy the quest.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Question: How powerful is the Least Wish scaled to? If it's scaled to Haeliel, then, well.. Omnipotence ahoy?
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Nah, even I wouldn't screw up the balance that bad. Just as a Least Wish from the Accursed would grant a wish scaled to the Cursebearer doing the wishing, a Least Wish from Haeliel would be scaled to the beneficiary.
- Location
- Pindorama
Not gonna lie, I am tempted to coward it out and go Guidance/Grace/Exaltation. I'll see my opinions in the morning.
Accursed: Yo H-dog, Apocryphal Curse is coming to fuck you up.
Thread generates 26 Arete(bravo btw) and spends 50 Arete on a sponsor.
After that the current consensus is to gamble for Potential(TM) of Signs, and don't get any immediate power anyway for the upcoming proc and spend the the 3 options for Potential(TM) again.
Finally some people are salty that we took dangerous gambles - what is the current vote if not dangerous gamble (just think of the Potential baby!) and probably we have to burn our Wish to survive
DarkSideBard
Flying, without moving on
!!!!.........:
...well, anyways,
Oh my god, she nailed him. She fucking boomed him.
A metaverse epilogue that will never be reached, yet must be aspired to, by attaining good epilogues for every Rihaku Quest....
Well, here we go, the big yikes. Obviously we need to combine some degree of immediate power with some degree of long term gain here, otherwise we're bungling 50 Arete's worth of power and it'd be mostly my fault. Nothing like that to motivate a guy, let me tell you.
Wish Vote:
-Deferral: the pick to possibly get Catherine back pre-epilogue, which is very tempting, as well as just banking a wish in case we need it later. This has no immediate value and substantially less long-term value than the other options, but has to be weighed as though it's Hunger making the requests. Is not taking this option here an abandonment of his love for Vengeance? Is it him being uncertain he can protect Catherine and not wanting to risk her? It's really hard to say, but the non-mechanical value it holds is significant, in that getting Catherine back is part of "winning the quest", in my opinion.
-Grace: Turning aside a significant foe once per Geas task is a tremendous boon for someone as loose with risk as Hunger, and is basically a stockpile of slowly reforming Wishes. This is just like a larger scale Slice Fate, which WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN, IT WAS SO GOOD.
...I'm not going to make that mistake again.
-Exaltation: This takes care of the immediate danger somewhat, though it risks completely fucking us and is really short term compared to the long-term possibilities of these options. Even if it's small, I really, really want to emphasize the chance of it killing Aobaru and triggering the Apocryphal Onslaught, wiping us out. I'm honestly too leery of the death chance to take this option.
-Guidance: You should pick this one, enough said. This has some decent gains, allowing us to induct people into Ordinalism and also possibly providing a loooooot of AccursedVerse lore, both stuff interesting to us and stuff that is relevant to Hunger. It's also one of the ones that might have a strong long term positive impact, since it could could trigger even as little as once a century and still be amazing, though obviously more disappointing to us when the quest is still playing as closely as we have been.
-Favor: The real power option. Getting OaF X+1 is...kind of insane, though it costs a full panoply slot and only gives conjunctional advancements. If I'm reading that right, it means it "only gives conjunctional advancements", rather than "it gives no other advancements besides OaF X+1", which is actually still pretty good since we don't necessarily need another source of single-item advancements, being able to get them from the 4 items we have already. Anyways, OaF II alone is great here, and the supplementary X+1 effect is pretty insane, to say nothing of the increased high-end Apocryphal mitigation! Plus, since it boosts everything up the ISH, it will probably make our current Mythic Platinum problem more tractable by improving the success rate of Amplification and Distillation. The only problem is that Favor takes two wishes, which means that only Catherine Rez, Geas help, or advice can be taken with it.
If...IF!...we assume that Hunger is the sort of person who could unlock Haeliel's "commited" stage (probably through an act of incredible Heroism or consistant goodness), then that might handle Catherine resurrection later, if we're in the "yes, but not now camp". I wonder if we lost points with her for killing Seralize, or if Seralize was too low tier of a hero to be called a Hero. Maybe Elixir is a good path towards Haeliel commitment, especially now that Hunger has seen Heroism in its pure state? Actually, do you think that this encounter might have just permanently unlocked it as a possible advancement? That would be funny.
Another path to Committed Haeliel might be taking Guidance to get more face-to-face time with her, though somehow that feels less likely to be it, given that she seems to know what we've been through. I'm happy that I don't feel like that's right, because my gut is telling me that Grace is too important. It's like that old trick where you flip a coin up in the air to decide between two options and then figure out what to do by paying close attention to your feelings to see if one option would disappoint you.
Summary: Immediate power is necessary, and since Favor so decisively claimed my heart, I think it has to be Favor + another pick. I wouldn't want to rez Catherine soon, because it's too risky, so I'd put my bet on eventual Committed Haeliel, especially given how crazy Hunger is. And to get there, it seems like Heroic leanings while carrying a sign of her favor > more interaction with her, which is really sad because I wanted that lore. But the most prudent long term route is Favor + Grace, and I think you have to be prudent with 50 Arete.
Empyreal Signs: All of these are good, but I can't help but feel that Night's Ambition is better, so I won't analyze them separately. Though it locks us into Evening Sky signs for the next two Signs, and Favor gives us the immediate power that allows waiting to be safe.You absolutely cannot be taking Night's Ambition without Favor, you utter fools. You cads. Maybe we can go 7/7/7 on Empyreal Signs domains as a sequence and get a trinity boost? Who knows how powerful those later Signs might be, though, especially after the presumptive Ruling Ring.
...now I'm imagining Ruling Ring->OaF II for a boosted "free" OaF III. Jesus fuck.
Wish Vote:
-Deferral: the pick to possibly get Catherine back pre-epilogue, which is very tempting, as well as just banking a wish in case we need it later. This has no immediate value and substantially less long-term value than the other options, but has to be weighed as though it's Hunger making the requests. Is not taking this option here an abandonment of his love for Vengeance? Is it him being uncertain he can protect Catherine and not wanting to risk her? It's really hard to say, but the non-mechanical value it holds is significant, in that getting Catherine back is part of "winning the quest", in my opinion.
-Grace: Turning aside a significant foe once per Geas task is a tremendous boon for someone as loose with risk as Hunger, and is basically a stockpile of slowly reforming Wishes. This is just like a larger scale Slice Fate, which WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN, IT WAS SO GOOD.
...I'm not going to make that mistake again.
-Exaltation: This takes care of the immediate danger somewhat, though it risks completely fucking us and is really short term compared to the long-term possibilities of these options. Even if it's small, I really, really want to emphasize the chance of it killing Aobaru and triggering the Apocryphal Onslaught, wiping us out. I'm honestly too leery of the death chance to take this option.
-Guidance: You should pick this one, enough said. This has some decent gains, allowing us to induct people into Ordinalism and also possibly providing a loooooot of AccursedVerse lore, both stuff interesting to us and stuff that is relevant to Hunger. It's also one of the ones that might have a strong long term positive impact, since it could could trigger even as little as once a century and still be amazing, though obviously more disappointing to us when the quest is still playing as closely as we have been.
-Favor: The real power option. Getting OaF X+1 is...kind of insane, though it costs a full panoply slot and only gives conjunctional advancements. If I'm reading that right, it means it "only gives conjunctional advancements", rather than "it gives no other advancements besides OaF X+1", which is actually still pretty good since we don't necessarily need another source of single-item advancements, being able to get them from the 4 items we have already. Anyways, OaF II alone is great here, and the supplementary X+1 effect is pretty insane, to say nothing of the increased high-end Apocryphal mitigation! Plus, since it boosts everything up the ISH, it will probably make our current Mythic Platinum problem more tractable by improving the success rate of Amplification and Distillation. The only problem is that Favor takes two wishes, which means that only Catherine Rez, Geas help, or advice can be taken with it.
If...IF!...we assume that Hunger is the sort of person who could unlock Haeliel's "commited" stage (probably through an act of incredible Heroism or consistant goodness), then that might handle Catherine resurrection later, if we're in the "yes, but not now camp". I wonder if we lost points with her for killing Seralize, or if Seralize was too low tier of a hero to be called a Hero. Maybe Elixir is a good path towards Haeliel commitment, especially now that Hunger has seen Heroism in its pure state? Actually, do you think that this encounter might have just permanently unlocked it as a possible advancement? That would be funny.
Another path to Committed Haeliel might be taking Guidance to get more face-to-face time with her, though somehow that feels less likely to be it, given that she seems to know what we've been through. I'm happy that I don't feel like that's right, because my gut is telling me that Grace is too important. It's like that old trick where you flip a coin up in the air to decide between two options and then figure out what to do by paying close attention to your feelings to see if one option would disappoint you.
Summary: Immediate power is necessary, and since Favor so decisively claimed my heart, I think it has to be Favor + another pick. I wouldn't want to rez Catherine soon, because it's too risky, so I'd put my bet on eventual Committed Haeliel, especially given how crazy Hunger is. And to get there, it seems like Heroic leanings while carrying a sign of her favor > more interaction with her, which is really sad because I wanted that lore. But the most prudent long term route is Favor + Grace, and I think you have to be prudent with 50 Arete.
Empyreal Signs: All of these are good, but I can't help but feel that Night's Ambition is better, so I won't analyze them separately. Though it locks us into Evening Sky signs for the next two Signs, and Favor gives us the immediate power that allows waiting to be safe.
...now I'm imagining Ruling Ring->OaF II for a boosted "free" OaF III. Jesus fuck.
Instead of voting here, I'm going to abide by my democratic responsibility to use my omake power for good, and probably do an argument map tomorrow once I'm home. But I'm currently feeling Grace + Favor + Ambition.
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Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
For nothing? Hey Hunger, some people worked very hard to bring you this opportunity, y'know!? You'd better seize it as best you can; there's a reason you took Decimator over Champion after all!
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DarkSideBard
Flying, without moving on
There you are.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
A Foolish Transaction: Planning
Seven hours and a half remaining. The Shattering Entity had learned quite a bit about the world and it's base magical system - Accretion, one of literal narrative weight upon existence. It had and grown in power further still; Still the matter of the Affliction loomed, threatening a reset of their attempt. It did not intend to lose in this contest.
What were the Shattering Entity's plans to survive it's first night, insensate to the world for sixteen entire hours?
{} Tomb of Horrors 2.0
The Shattering Entity mused over it's past experiences. A dungeon indeed, would be most suitable. Unfortunate that the shore was quite lovely, and would be poor scenery for what they intended to be a locale where the lich Acererak kept their phylactery (or something like that, it did not remember the full details), slumbering for the eternities. Nonetheless, it was a practical option still, even if it would have to be somewhat rushed.
* Shardcraft Focus: Generalist/Necromancy. A tomb requires monsters, traps and precision for maximal effect. This is no DM-designed dungeon, intended to challenge but not kill - This dungeon intends death at every turn.
* Developing the most obvious facets to a reasonable level of power, the entity is left with much time with which to prepare a dungeon hellscape for adventurers.
* Spectral armies, Random Ghost whales, Giant Crabs, etc.
* Shardcrafting allows helpful 'floor collapse' traps, direct magical assault and even stored Sharding assaults as a last resort.
* With effective every entity being an undead creature, structuring the dungeon in an obnoxious manner becomes feasible, for example partial flooding presenting drowning risks, or areas kept filled with terminally poisonous gasses. Shard is reasonably confident in his capability to generate such environments using their half-remembered knowledge of chemistry and biology. They know the frailty of form.
* Initial Visibility: Low. It's a tomb buried by sand.
* Power Level: Moderate. Standard necromancer army, etc.
* Deterrence: Low. If this realm is anything like D&D, breaking into tombs is planetwide pastime.
{} Cthulu
The Shattering Entity considered the sheer power of Shardcraft as applied to the mind. A fragment of a mind.. is still a mind. They were hardly people, bearing an eerie resemblance to what were once in life. They wondered as to the nature of power being paved with atrocities.
* Shardcraft Focus: Conceptual, Mental. Application of Shardcraft to 'The Mind' allows concerning rapid mind control sprees, at a rate competitive with chaos cults.
* Have access to a society, sort of.
* Mind-Controlled villages, towns, castles, sea creatures, etc.
* Unlike the other options, allows practical development of Accretion as a side-magical system, with modest synergies with your own Shardcrafting.
* Unquestionably an ethical atrocity. Also undeniably a very rapid gain in power and knowledge.
* Access to safe locales allows Shard to begin practical curse-mitigation efforts. Also provides ablative armor in regards to the Apocryphal Curse.
* Initial Visibility: Moderate. People will start noticing the change in behavioral patterns soon.
* Power Level: High. Access to major living armies.
* Deterrence: Very High. You are a nation-state. Even if people don't realize it yet.
{} Fallout Shelter
The Shattering Entity contemplated the efficacy of it's fusion attacks, which had brought it far indeed. By simply selecting a locale and directly poisoning the surroundings to an extreme degree before erecting numerous obstacles, much could be deterred. Hopefully. The remainder would hopefully be incapable of penetrating their shelter.
* Shardcraft Focus: Physics, Conceptual. Blatant exploitation of Shardcraft's interaction with reality allows radioactive wastelands amplified by Shardcraft.
* The effects would be lethal for any mortal human within minutes, the very air eroding their very being from without and within. Plus, Shard is pretty sure nobody has NBC suits, so the obvious technological counters don't exist. Magical methods to defeat them might exist, but Shard is pretty sure radioactive hellscapes are currently an outside context problem.
* Wound that walks. Unlike the Decimator's Affliction, this can be fixed later. If desired.
* The Shelter itself is reasonably tough, and would require superhuman levels of strength to breach.
* Few, if any, actual guards. The area is eerily silent.
* Initial Visibility: High. It's a literal radioactive hellscape.
* Power Level: High. Combat via nuking your enemies is extremely potent.
* Deterrence: High. A radioactive hellscape with basically nothing in it.
Seven hours and a half remaining. The Shattering Entity had learned quite a bit about the world and it's base magical system - Accretion, one of literal narrative weight upon existence. It had and grown in power further still; Still the matter of the Affliction loomed, threatening a reset of their attempt. It did not intend to lose in this contest.
What were the Shattering Entity's plans to survive it's first night, insensate to the world for sixteen entire hours?
{} Tomb of Horrors 2.0
The Shattering Entity mused over it's past experiences. A dungeon indeed, would be most suitable. Unfortunate that the shore was quite lovely, and would be poor scenery for what they intended to be a locale where the lich Acererak kept their phylactery (or something like that, it did not remember the full details), slumbering for the eternities. Nonetheless, it was a practical option still, even if it would have to be somewhat rushed.
* Shardcraft Focus: Generalist/Necromancy. A tomb requires monsters, traps and precision for maximal effect. This is no DM-designed dungeon, intended to challenge but not kill - This dungeon intends death at every turn.
* Developing the most obvious facets to a reasonable level of power, the entity is left with much time with which to prepare a dungeon hellscape for adventurers.
* Spectral armies, Random Ghost whales, Giant Crabs, etc.
* Shardcrafting allows helpful 'floor collapse' traps, direct magical assault and even stored Sharding assaults as a last resort.
* With effective every entity being an undead creature, structuring the dungeon in an obnoxious manner becomes feasible, for example partial flooding presenting drowning risks, or areas kept filled with terminally poisonous gasses. Shard is reasonably confident in his capability to generate such environments using their half-remembered knowledge of chemistry and biology. They know the frailty of form.
* Initial Visibility: Low. It's a tomb buried by sand.
* Power Level: Moderate. Standard necromancer army, etc.
* Deterrence: Low. If this realm is anything like D&D, breaking into tombs is planetwide pastime.
{} Cthulu
The Shattering Entity considered the sheer power of Shardcraft as applied to the mind. A fragment of a mind.. is still a mind. They were hardly people, bearing an eerie resemblance to what were once in life. They wondered as to the nature of power being paved with atrocities.
* Shardcraft Focus: Conceptual, Mental. Application of Shardcraft to 'The Mind' allows concerning rapid mind control sprees, at a rate competitive with chaos cults.
* Have access to a society, sort of.
* Mind-Controlled villages, towns, castles, sea creatures, etc.
* Unlike the other options, allows practical development of Accretion as a side-magical system, with modest synergies with your own Shardcrafting.
* Unquestionably an ethical atrocity. Also undeniably a very rapid gain in power and knowledge.
* Access to safe locales allows Shard to begin practical curse-mitigation efforts. Also provides ablative armor in regards to the Apocryphal Curse.
* Initial Visibility: Moderate. People will start noticing the change in behavioral patterns soon.
* Power Level: High. Access to major living armies.
* Deterrence: Very High. You are a nation-state. Even if people don't realize it yet.
{} Fallout Shelter
The Shattering Entity contemplated the efficacy of it's fusion attacks, which had brought it far indeed. By simply selecting a locale and directly poisoning the surroundings to an extreme degree before erecting numerous obstacles, much could be deterred. Hopefully. The remainder would hopefully be incapable of penetrating their shelter.
* Shardcraft Focus: Physics, Conceptual. Blatant exploitation of Shardcraft's interaction with reality allows radioactive wastelands amplified by Shardcraft.
* The effects would be lethal for any mortal human within minutes, the very air eroding their very being from without and within. Plus, Shard is pretty sure nobody has NBC suits, so the obvious technological counters don't exist. Magical methods to defeat them might exist, but Shard is pretty sure radioactive hellscapes are currently an outside context problem.
* Wound that walks. Unlike the Decimator's Affliction, this can be fixed later. If desired.
* The Shelter itself is reasonably tough, and would require superhuman levels of strength to breach.
* Few, if any, actual guards. The area is eerily silent.
* Initial Visibility: High. It's a literal radioactive hellscape.
* Power Level: High. Combat via nuking your enemies is extremely potent.
* Deterrence: High. A radioactive hellscape with basically nothing in it.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
We even start off with Brand of the Wretched to speed things up!
How can I be so consistently conflicted over votes, the Seraphs Favor threw a wrench into all my plans!
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
I believe these two fulfill my max +epilogue bonus suite desire. I have to keep the eye on the prize and not get distracted by OAF.
In addition to these, sorry Catherine, but I think we have to defer things for possibly much longer. For my other choices to become relevant I believe we need a pick me up now.
[X] "I wish for my junior's exaltation."
Also, thank you Big Sis Haeliel!
Unasked for, though perhaps not undeserved! I can't think of a better scene to have been restored in honestly!
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
I believe these two fulfill my max +epilogue bonus suite desire. I have to keep the eye on the prize and not get distracted by OAF.
In addition to these, sorry Catherine, but I think we have to defer things for possibly much longer. For my other choices to become relevant I believe we need a pick me up now.
[X] "I wish for my junior's exaltation."
Also, thank you Big Sis Haeliel!
Unasked for, though perhaps not undeserved! I can't think of a better scene to have been restored in honestly!
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I had considered what implications Daylian might have on his character, but had somehow not realized Haeliel could also have an impact!
This was both an unexpected and very welcome advancement. Truly, we got all the best stuff just by letting Big Sis spoil us, and if we're all for her advice corner, we should really begin taking all of her suggestions seriously!
Starting with:
Just in case anyone missed the gospel!
Rihaku
The Internet
There's something to be said for the versatility of deferring, it may potentially open up many more options than even the realized seven-Sign benefit would, and do you really want to lock in Evening Sky signs for the next two Empyreal picks without having even seen the alternative? You've already given up immense utility from As Above in exchange for the Armor of Midnight.
Haeliel's favor is immensely potent, but the costs are similarly immense - not only would you be out of Panoply slots once again, but you'd be cashing in the potential of two wishes in exchange for crystallized power along a certain Advancement path. Not taking Favor is the only way you could take both Grace and Guidance, for example! That would also allow you to either defer or Exalt Aobaru (or maybe Letrizia?) alongside. Guidance + Favor means you'd be giving up Grace, which is certainly a hard pill to swallow...
Haeliel's favor is immensely potent, but the costs are similarly immense - not only would you be out of Panoply slots once again, but you'd be cashing in the potential of two wishes in exchange for crystallized power along a certain Advancement path. Not taking Favor is the only way you could take both Grace and Guidance, for example! That would also allow you to either defer or Exalt Aobaru (or maybe Letrizia?) alongside. Guidance + Favor means you'd be giving up Grace, which is certainly a hard pill to swallow...