Hmm. As a challenge to the thread, try come up with the optimal (or just plain interesting) Ordinal builds for our party members.

I'm particularly fond of the idea of Aobaru becoming an Elements focused caster who has an Attainment that allows him to empower his Vigorflame while banning all other Elements.
 
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That's exactly why she should get it: between Legion and Accelerate, she'd benefit massively in her ability to advance across all areas. Considering how she has more demands on her time than Hunger in a lot of ways and is our primary source of utility, I'm not sure how we can justify not giving it to her.
Gisena's graces are all Nullity. Gisena's soul evocation would be Nullity.

On the other hand, her Ring allows her to have magic that's not Nullity. She could take the Mind domain next as a nootropic, or use Artifice to sidle into a cybernetic brain enhancement.

If graces are int + cha, then Ordinal sounds like a pure INT system. Assuming that Ordinal is exempt from the pattern where [everything Gisena herself does is Nullity] then this would indeed make Gisena into a real powerhouse of magic synergy. Definitely worth making the attempt to grind out the 26 Arete
 
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Since apparently some people here aren't particularly familar with the Ordinal Spiral, here's a primer/infodump on the subject. You pick one of two spells at each Ordinal. As an alternative to picking a new spell, you can upgrade a previously acquired spell. Spells are like musical instruments. Specialization is strongly encouraged. Spells have a high level of meta-protection. Practicing the Ordinal Spiral provides some level of Cognitive Enhancement/Wits cultivation. Periodically unlocked attainments are abilities unique to the individual. Haeliel used TSH to take the Ordinal Spiral beyond the bounds of its original power with massive amounts of Attainments. Some of this is copypasted.

Edit: Extending on this a bit, there's the Rite of Absorption, which allows Ordinalists to gain magical development from slain foes, and perhaps another rite for those who reject it as a hypothetical 0th Ordinal. There is the Rite of Ordinal Purism, which means if you forsake all other magic systems, your development in Ordinalism is improved.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

The Gardens of Enoch: Terrascape Academy Original

Actually, a reality warping effect with poor meta-defense like M:tA / M:tAw would be trumped utterly by the Ordinal Spiral, which has Nobilis+ level meta defense. This is apparent in Ordinal Adept nigh-immunity to non-Dominion mind magics, for example (such as those granted by Conjoiner powers).
Actually, a reality warping effect with poor meta-defense like M:tA / M:tAw would be trumped utterly by the Ordinal Spiral, which has Nobilis+ level meta defense. This is apparent in Ordinal Adept nigh-immunity to non-Dominion mind magics, for example (such as those granted by Conjoiner powers).

1. Seeker/Shield
2. Conjure/Construct
3. Elements/Examine
4. Dominion/Dispel
5. Augury/Accelerate
6. Lance/Legion
7. Terrascape/Teleport - 1st Attainment Unlocked
8. Overwhelm/Oathsworn
9. Nightmare/Nexus
10. Vindicate/Valor
11. Wyrd/War
12. Radiance/Revenant

Goes up to 26.


1. The First Ordinal, Seeker/Shield [25 XP]

Seeker - The user fires, typically from an appendage, a focused missile of magical force. Though relatively slow (10-200+ mph depending on skill), the missile is quite powerful and highly responsive to the caster's guidance. The Seeker spell is easy to cast and even practitioners of moderate skill can maintain multiple Seekers to home in on an enemy. Most importantly, the Seeker spell can be combined with a number of other spells, allowing the user to exert fine control and continuous guidance over a number of higher Ordinals. The Lance spell can be made to split into multiple smaller beams, each of which homes in on an enemy, or the Elemental Fire spell can launch a searing explosion shaped to spare one's allies.

Shield - The user generates a coating of protective energy around their body. It is selectively permeable and skilled users can remain under a continuous shield without penalizing their day-to-day living, save for the Ordinal Slot committed. Extremely easy to cast, the Shield spell is resilient to errors and provides at least some degree of protection from virtually all forms of harm. It can adopt the qualities of a highly supple or highly rigid material seemingly at whim. Most importantly, the Shield spell can be combined with a number of other spells, imparting conceptual qualities of improved convenience and defensive versatility upon a number of higher Ordinals. The user can envelop themselves in an otherwise impermable Construct barrier without suffocating, or clad themselves in armor of Elemental Stone with far fewer practical obstructions.

2. The Second Ordinal, Conjure/Construct [50 XP]

Conjure - The user retrieves an item from, or deposits an item to, an extradimensional storage space. Virtually all parameters (speed, size of space, etc) improve with skill. Minds capable of perceiving a Spirit (almost all animals) cannot be deposited. Despite the spell's simplicity, it's extremely useful for obvious reasons.

Construct - The user projects and controls a crude object of magical force attached to their body. Virtually all parameters (strength, degree of control, fineness of construction, size of construct) improve with skill. Swords, appendages, armor, crude mechanisms are all possible. Despite the spell's simplicity, it's extremely useful for obvious reasons.

3. The Third Ordinal, Elements/Examine [100 XP]

Elements - The seven elements are Air, Fire, Earth, Water, Metal, Wood, and Gamma Radiation. Users are discouraged from choosing Gamma Radiation as their element. The user chooses one Element when selecting this Form. The user may launch an explosive orb of the element, affecting a large radius, or raise a barrier of the element. In addition, they are highly resistant to harm from their chosen element. A skilled practitioner can shape their element to a degree somewhat approaching the versatility of the Construct Spell. Each purchase of a Specialist Form grants an additional Element, on top of the standard bonuses of a Specialist Form. A combatant with this Form is extremely devastating; even unskilled practitioners can bring down buildings with sustained effort.

Examine - The user gains a resource pool of superhuman perception that can be focused to provide detailed information about an object, dispersed to grant awareness of surrounding objects, or sent out to remotely view a location. Useful in class. An operative with this Form is extremely devastating; even unskilled practitioners can eavesdrop on a secure conversation, while on a different floor of an adjacent building. Ordinal magicians of the third level and higher can sense the presence of Remote or Focused Examination.

4. Dominion is a mind control technique. Dispel is a countermagic technique

5. Augury is a self-targeted danger sense/precognition. Accelerate is temporal acceleration.

6. Lance is a high precision cutting energy of considerable destructive power. Legion lets you split off into various clones of yourself. Pick two(Number of Bodies, magical power Preservation, and maintaining intelligence. The Gardens of Enoch: Terrascape Academy Original)

7. The 7th Ordinal, Terrascape/Teleport

Terrascape - Like a reality marble I guess.

High Skill - Create advantageous terrain for yourself and screw over enemies, sense everything inside your Terrascape, moderate physical shifting of the terrain

Very High Skill w/ Specialist Forms - Moderately alter the laws of reality (symmetrical, though), pierce almost all concealment magics inside your Terrascape, extremely potent physical shifting of the terrain, cause lifeforms to spawn as cannon fodder, other weird crap

8. The 8th Ordinal, Oathsworn/Overwhelm (Seeker applicable)

Overwhelm - The user may fire blasts of reality-warping energy. This attack is relatively slow, but exceptionally dangerous, as depending on relative magical might, presence and quality of Vitalist artifacts in one's system, and relative WILL scores, it can serve as an "instant-kill" attack against which the Shield Form performs only partial defense. Effect can be shaped (into beams, omnidirectional bursts, etc) with sufficient Skill. Seeker allows blasts to dynamically change shape and alter direction according to your programming.

Medium Skill: Parts struck can be transformed into glass, plasma, edible vegetation or ash.
High Skill / Specialization: Larger variety of transformation states (Governance unsure what the rules are, few people take Overwhelm), likely including some or all of the seven Elements
Very High Skill / Specialization: Effects somewhat similar to the reality alterations of a Terrascape are possible. Unlike a Terrascape, these effects persist until overwritten or dispelled.

Oathsworn - The user may swear oaths involving themselves and another party. You would only be able to swear oaths that place no obligation on you, else they would fail due to RHoG. Some portion of one or both character's MIND, BODY, or WILL scores may be put up as collateral or voluntarily transferred. The spirit, rather than letter, of the compact is enforced. It is unsure what entity judges this. Use of the Oathsworn Form either completely exhausts the character's Ordinal magic for an amount of time depending on Skill and stakes (usually between several days / hours), or costs a small but permanent fraction of the character's Ordinal power well. The latter is often chosen because most fights are too large for magical endurance to come into play, but some spells require it. Of course, overuse can result in total loss of Ordinal power; an unsavory proposition.

Medium Skill: A character may accrue stats of up to peak human with this spell
High Skill / Specialization: Skills can be traded to some degree. A character may accrue stats somewhat above peak human.
Very High Skill / Specialization: Abstract concepts can be traded with varying levels of success. Vitalist organs have successfully been traded in the past, at severe cost.

9. The 9th Ordinal, Nightmare(Seeker/Shield Applicable)/Nexus

Nightmare - The user summons a semi-illusory creature of immense magic and physical might. The creature will either guard the character with its life or follow programmed instructions (for you, both). You may also program it to defend someone else, or some thing, or even an ideal, with its life (only you may do this). So long as you have Multicasting to maintain another spell alongside this one, nothing stops you from fighting alongside the creature. Should the creature be destroyed, its respawn time depends on Skill and specialization.

At every Skill-Rank ending in .0, the creature's physical parameters and raw magical power increase.
At every Skill-Rank ending in .5, the creature gains a Trait. Traits include:

*Skill - The creature has a high-Ranking Combat Skill
*Sense - The creature has some form of extrasensory perception, usually very powerful. Weak precog, spatial radar, conceptual bloodhound, etc.
*Movement - The creature has some form of augmented movement, usually very powerful. Phasing, dimensional tunneling, extreme speed flight, teleportation etc
*Might - The creature either has "magical resistance" scaling with its strength, or an EP 7.5 Conjoiner power.
*Vainglory - The creature is awesome and terrible to behold, affecting characters who perceive it unfilitered according to the higher of their MIND and WILL scores. You are unaffected by this and cannot perceive it.

Reports of multiple Nightmares sighted from a single caster are unconfirmed, but persistent rumors stir campus. Surely such a student would be well known?

Nexus - This Form seems to have something to do with designing Ordinal Rites. The Rite of Purity and Rite of Absorption were not created this was, but the Name Rite and the Humaniform Rite were. Christianten has this. This Form is almost totally useless in combat.

10. The 10th Ordinal, Valour/Vindicate (Seeker/Shield Applicability unknown on Valour, Arthur got Valor and we got to see some more detailed build options for it))

Vindicate - The user may unmake objects or events, restricted by the conceptual 'strength' of the object in question. People or parts of people can be unmade. Events can be unmade in part or in whole, but energy requirements scale dramatically with time elapsed. An attack could be unmade to the degree that the character it slew is resurrected. A person could be unmade utterly, but erasing their entire history would require unrealistic quantities of Ordinal power. Erasing the contingent effects of an event, such as memories, is possible but increases difficulty and energy cost.

At high enough levels of Skill and Specialization, virtually any effect can be negated, un-done, or reversed. All but the smallest applications of this Ordinal are extremely taxing on a character's Ordinal well. This Ordinal is exceptionally difficult to perform, even for its rank. However, because it can be used to say "I told you so" while avoiding the real-world consequences of such, it is highly popular among Ordinal archmagi (or so Christianten's notes claim).

Imperia has this.

Valour - The user summons the Perishing Blade. The Perishing Blade has a number of Facets unique to its user and skill level. The Perishing Blade is an almost unbelievably powerful weapon capable of slaying most third years in a single blow. Only one character may wield the Perishing Blade at a time; priority is given to those with the higher composite Skill, Specializations, and some unique factor accounting for the character's identity. Recorded Facets of the Perishing Blade (it is unknown which are unique and which general, because only one character survives who is known to wield it. Wielders of this Form are incentivized to kill each other for obvious reasons.):

Greatly amplify the character's other Ordinal Magic
Emit a tidal wave of semi-liquid flame / destructive energy
Grant the user Grandmastery (Swords)
Cuts through anything (?)
Renders user immune to all Conjoiner powers (?)

Imperia tells you that Foxglove has this.

11. The 11th Ordinal, Wyrd/War (Seeker/Shield Applicability unknown on both)

Wyrd - The user becomes immutable for the duration of spellcasting. They do not age, breathe, eat, sleep, or drink. They are unhindered by wounds except those that would cause them to become unable to cast this spell. Their arm could be severed and it would simply hang off in mid-air, following the user's shoulder and performing actions as normal. It could be reduced to dust and the dust particulates would hang frozen in the shape of an arm, performing actions as normal. This spell can be activated after being wounded to receive similar benefits.

This includes brain injuries that do not specifically damage the parts of the mind required to cast this spell. Conceptual strength of 'immutability' and ease of maintenance scale with Skill and Specialization. Probably. There are likely other effects of Skill and Specialization that this spell grants, but they are unknown because no one has it, as far as Christianten knows.


War - The user becomes a nigh-invincible god-beast of destruction with multiple unique powers, supposedly. This allegedly always stacks with other forms of self-enhancing magic, no matter how improbable. No one has ever managed to actually cast this, as far as Christianten knows, or maybe if they did Imperia removed that event. Or maybe it's the Nettlespine. Of course, with Skill Boost you are practically guaranteed to be able to cast it at some level, but who knows, really?

(Imperia tells you it's not the Nettlespine. But can you trust her on this? What a coup it would be, to be thought a Conjoiner or a Vitalist, and to have been an Ordinalist all along... !)
 
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Man, that is a very cool and detailed system that I would absolutely love to explore in more detail. Gisena could research spells only during this Pillars visit and still get some major benefits out of those early options.

On the other hand, Daylian is friend shaped, and Wolber needs a hug. What an excellent update.
 
Man, that is a very cool and detailed system that I would absolutely love to explore in more detail. Gisena could research spells only during this Pillars visit and still get some major benefits out of those early options.

On the other hand, Daylian is friend shaped, and Wolber needs a hug. What an excellent update.
And when you get enough elemental forms, you can sacrifice some to get more power in the ones you've got left. There's probably other details I didn't remember but that seems like an interesting one to bring up.
 
[X] Orm Embar

I would be all for getting the High Cursebearer buddy, but I'm not sure how realistic is getting 26 Arete in time.

I mean, we did have better grinds in past, but we sorta need the deluge of works.
 
And when you get enough elemental forms, you can sacrifice some to get more power in the ones you've got left. There's probably other details I didn't remember but that seems like an interesting one to bring up.
I see you're all-in on the Aobaru empowerment schema. I think you'll have an uphill battle, considering the opportunity cost. Consider that we only get three 'charges' to spend from Haeliel. Any expenditure of a charge must be at least as valuable as recovering from certain Indenture failure. Directly empowering Aobaru risks activating the Apocryphal Onslaught, which would require another 'charge' from Haeliel. Instructing him in Ordinalism alongside Gisena is an appealing alternative, but that leaves us with only one 'charge' to spend on Resurrection / Indenture Rescue / True Wish against the Apocryphal Curse.

I'll fight beside you to get Aobaru and Gisena as two Ordinal Mages, but I'm not sure the thread is ready for that yet.

Philosopher's Wreath allows companions to advance more quickly and break conceptual limits, much like a discount TSH effect
 
The greatest Omakestorm we've ever produced (the Praxis pick buying one) got us 12 Arete IIRC. With the doubling that's 24. So we'd need to outdo our strongest Omakestorm of all time to be able to take the angel. I'd be happy to have Ordinalism in the party, it's an interesting magic system, but I'm a little short of the time and effort for serious Omaking ATM.
 
The greatest Omakestorm we've ever produced (the Praxis pick buying one) got us 12 Arete IIRC. With the doubling that's 24. So we'd need to outdo our strongest Omakestorm of all time to be able to take the angel. I'd be happy to have Ordinalism in the party, it's an interesting magic system, but I'm a little short of the time and effort for serious Omaking ATM.
Each successive Omakestorm will be the hardest thing we've ever done in our lives this thread.

On the other hand, we've got considerably more time between updates. We got to 24 Arete on the back of moderate but sustained effort since the Pillars buy.
 
The optics of the Induction and being paired with the Seraph starts out as kind of funny. At first glance you would think we are basically being given a babysitter and she wouldn't get much out of it, but the Accursed might actually think we have what it takes to survive and end up a boon for her as well.

I can't tell if this is a vote of confidence or no confidence!
 
I see you're all-in on the Aobaru empowerment schema. I think you'll have an uphill battle, considering the opportunity cost. Consider that we only get three 'charges' to spend from Haeliel. Any expenditure of a charge must be at least as valuable as recovering from certain Indenture failure. Directly empowering Aobaru risks activating the Apocryphal Onslaught, which would require another 'charge' from Haeliel. Instructing him in Ordinalism alongside Gisena is an appealing alternative, but that leaves us with only one 'charge' to spend on Resurrection / Indenture Rescue / True Wish against the Apocryphal Curse.

I'll fight beside you to get Aobaru and Gisena as two Ordinal Mages, but I'm not sure the thread is ready for that yet.

Philosopher's Wreath allows companions to advance more quickly and break conceptual limits, much like a discount TSH effect
I don't know what I think about Aobaru empowerment. It's somewhat tempting but there are other options out there. Arete to spend on things that may turn up later.

Also there's Philosopher's Wreath. The exact words don't suggest companions get conceptual limit breaking
[ ] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)

The twilight hours are a time of contemplation, growth of mind and spirit. Perhaps there are more things in earth and heaven than are dreamt of in one's philosophy. But that may not always be so.

They for whom the heavens themselves are aegis and raiment, these are the hours to speak - perchance to dream. And in dreaming, grow strong beyond the imagining of mortal men.


[+Intelligence, +Wisdom, +Charisma]

Select one magic system which you have personally encountered and which is no greater than the Noble Praxis. You may use that system to the limits of your Intelligence or applicable Attributes, developing any appropriate qualities within reason, but this may no more than double your overall advancement. Alternatively, you may improve an existing magic you possess under the same conditions, hastening your rate of advancement in that art by [Intelligence x 100%] and substantially increasing both the variety and the conceptual potency of effects available to it.

Allied mages with which the wearer dialogues extensively find they may develop novel applications of existing abilities and steadily grow in knowledge & power with effort, independent of their own paradigm. This can no more than triple their overall level of advancement, but any progression done on their own will raise this cap. Should said mage no longer be allied, the wearer may strip this power at will, like a dream dissolving at break of day.

We get a substantial increase to the variety and conceptual potency of effects in a <= Noble Praxis magic system.
Our party members get up to tripled magical development.
 
The greatest Omakestorm we've ever produced (the Praxis pick buying one) got us 12 Arete IIRC. With the doubling that's 24. So we'd need to outdo our strongest Omakestorm of all time to be able to take the angel. I'd be happy to have Ordinalism in the party, it's an interesting magic system, but I'm a little short of the time and effort for serious Omaking ATM.
We also got additional EFB back when we had falling in the trap vote. It's doable, although it requires obviously high amount of effort.

Still, with DSB's CYOA, perhaps another Jiko quest, a lot of reactions and half a dozen of arts pieces we might do it. But yeah, the question is if players care enough to get big sis to help us out.
 
[X] Daylian Erranthus [Committed, 7 Arete]
I'm kind of surprised so many folks are going for the basic version...
 
Hmm. As a challenge to the thread, try come up with the optimal (or just plain interesting) Ordinal builds for our party members.
There's a case to be made for Gisena specializing in Examine & Dispel. Those two really shore up weaknesses in her build, you know?

More seriously, Elements is a no-brainer for Aobaru, he can take the Form repeatedly and reduce back to fire alone to focus its power. We saw the biggest weakness of Elements when Arthur was fighting Coldbriar and could only disperse his mist with the First Sword. Mundane flames don't have the conceptual firepower to breach certain types of defense, no matter their intensity. But Vigorflame's more like the findross-refined idea of fire, its ardent intensity and ability to inspire made manifest as a Surge. Aobaru might not even need an Attainment, Arthur was able to create Acheron-techniques without one.

The Strategist implied a sufficiently mastered Elements could command 'all the flames in Creation'. Basically, the Elements Form works well as a control and scaling mechanism if you can get exotic effects from other magic systems; this was one of the ideas behind Versperikles' build. So many possible synergies... Vigorflame augmentation's capped because stuffing too much of the Surge into a body causes it to explode? Good thing the Form renders you resistant to your choice. Metal Elementalists can ignore bullets, Arthur could swallow cold fire. How much better will it be with a custom Vigorflame technique, which is intended for augmentation?

Half-baked ideas about adding the nuclear fusion domain and making a Vigorflame sun that buffs all allies who bask in its light aside, let's think about Gisena. She's the most intelligent party member and would make a great Ordinalist, but just doesn't have the time to leverage all her abilities. Thankfully, there's an app Ordinal for that: Accelerate. It's demanding, we know people take it in hopes of bootstrapping their development only to burn out. Willpower's a limited resource, as Wolber would say. But Gisena's a genius wearing the Azure Ring, which has time as one of its domains. She can attack the problem from two angles and get even more subjective time out of her three week stays in the Realm of Evening.

Unfortunate that Accelerate's exclusive with Augury, the precog/danger sense Ordinal. It's not infallible (as Genevieve learned the hard way), but for someone in the Apocryphal's line of fire it'd be invaluable. Both Forms of the 5th Ordinal overlap with her Ring's theoretical capabilities. This would be a good use of an Attainment, if at all possible, Arthur's proof that you can have two of the same tier. In terms of other Ordinals, Nightmare might merit consideration? Renaissance Woman's a significant upgrade, but physical combat's not Gisena's forte. It'd be nice to have a disposable combatant that can protect the kids or be programmed to seek out crafting reagents. Scaling would be an issue, though. Dispel might be unironically a good idea if Gisena can get another tier of mitigation out of it too, she's smart enough to make a generalist build work.

For Letrizia, I want to say Examine? She's not a frontline fighter even with Sharpbright, if she's in that situation something's gone wrong. The Totality interface is good at shielding its pilots (Augustine's amazing rolls aside), but the experience of merging with the machine's got to be overwhelming even for someone accustomed to it. Examine entails the back-end improvements to absorb the information it yields, above and beyond the clarity and cogmentation all Ordinalists develop. Could make her a better pilot and would help her scientific aspirations outside the cockpit. Once Letrizia gets to the 11th Ordinal she can weigh Wyrd's benefits, she needs all the longevity she can get.

Aeira... man, that's a tough one. Teleport, probably? She's a ninja, our Cloak's got a cooldown (if someone snags the first Form of the 8th we can take a Nightmare on our Nightmare Flight!), it's a useful capability for reconnaissance. As a spy it's hard to go wrong with Examine, though she hasn't done much surveillance for us recently. Lance attacks can be woven, allowing her to combine them with Shadowcord. I want to say she could make good use of Valor as an assassin, but given the Daystar Facet Aobaru's likely the better wielder. Can you imagine adding the First Flames and Vigorflame templates to Elements (Fire)? That poor terminator, nobody told him John Connor was the second coming of the Sun King!
 
[X] Daylian Erranthus [Basic, 0 Arete]
[X] Daylian Erranthus [Committed, 7 Arete]

[X] Wolber Strobe [Basic, 7 Arete] /
[X] Wolber Strobe [Committed, 12 Arete]

This is a valid vote, right? Anything but Overspend Angel?
 
Tripled Gisena advancement from Philosophers Wreath and she has Total Eclipse. She also has Retinue boosting her growth rate for up to one cardinality of infinite escalation.

Moving on from that insight...

Ponderances on Cursebearer Choices currently within our reach from an Arete Standpoint.

Daylian Erranthus(General) - He is as strong as Hunger, slightly stronger in some areas. He can theoretically keep up with Hunger from a growth standpoint. Charismatic. Boisterous. Friendly. Only a fraction as good as he thinks he is. He's got 2 stages of mitigation on the Curse of Hubris, the question though is how he mitigated it and if we can take advantage of it for his own good/protection.

Abilities:

Extreme Swordfighting Skills
Cosmic Scale Geokinesis
Cosmic Scale Healing Magic
Debuff Aura targeting those with ill intent towards him
Lazulite Manipulator(Summon, Banish, Create, Manipulate), given the connection to Immortal Myth this may be helpful from a Synthesis standpoint.
Lazulite Effects


Daylian Erranthus(Basic, 0 Arete) - He's only interacting with us because the Accursed asked him to. Compatibility is lower compared to Committed. 20-33 percent chance of being available per future apocryphal proc though so we presumably get along semi well in spite of that. He probably interrupts the Apocrypha proc to the tune of Trombe! Pros: Low Arete cost. Less time spend having to play minder to him. Viable as a long term peer if he doesn't get himself killed. Cons: Lower overall access to his abilities which could be extremely useful from a Synthesis standpoint. Less personal compatibility compared to committed. Future bailouts are erratic and not to be counted on.

Daylain Erranthus(Committed, 7 Arete) - We get along notably better, to the point he spends all his indenture freetime hanging out with us(Not 100 percent availability, but enough to make him a serious recurring character). Given the Curse of Hubris, we need to keep him from doing suicidally stupid things while he's around. We're going to need more social skills for that. Anything that can buff manipulation and other mental stats, we need. We also are going to need to think about what makes him go Leroy Jenkins and then not do that. Pros: Having another Hunger tier combatant that likes hanging out with us around regularly, more reliable access to his formidable and helpful abilities. Chance to save him from his own hubris, raising his odds of being a viable long term peer. Cons: We have to play minder and not do things that incentivize Leroy Jenkins behavior. Doing this effectively will necessitate investments in manipulation and mental stats as well as thread discipline.

Wolber Strobe(General) - He's an Imperial Praxis training fixated sickly man in a cloak with no meaningful physical stats due to the affliction of Lepropsy and several missing body parts that may or may not have been replaced by prosthetics. He's got Three Stages of Apocryphal Mitigation which is fairly close to what we have. 10 percent first stage from Gisena, 2.5 from Adorie, 5 percent from All-Defeating stance, and another 10 percent from Renaissance Woman/Gisena. He's got 2 stages of mitigation on the Mutilating Affliction so he may have been able to heal some of his mutilating Affliction injures. He's also got 2 stages of Brand of the Wretched mitigation and we're going to need to figure out how to take advantage of them. Finally, he's got 1 stage of mitigation on the Affliction of Lepropsy.

He is an extremely skilled Scientist/Strategist/Tactician/Minmaxer if we can make ourselves listen to him somehow
He has Imperial Praxis level offense and defense effects, along with a few utility tools

[ ] Mutilating Affliction - HP is halved. Cursebearer loses one eye, one ear, one arm, one leg, one lung, and one kidney. Organs cannot be replaced but prosthetics can be employed. However, the subjective enjoyment of the lost organs can never be regained. Shapeshifting into a multi-limbed form, such as that of an octopus, would see the Cursebearer with four tentacles instead of eight.

[ ] Affliction of Leprosy - Constantly suffer from low-level illness, inflicting penalties to all actions. Proactive use of any physical attributes imposes a penalty scaling with the power of the attribute. Horrific leprous appearance can only be overcome by physically covering the body.

Wolber Strobe(Basic, 7 Arete) - He's only interacting with us because the Accursed asked him to. Lower compatibility/affinity for Hunger compared to committed. Brand of the Wretched ensures bad first impression and interacts poorly with Doom of the Tyrant. Considering even Committed takes some time for us to be able to listen to him, this is a terrible idea and a waste of Arete. His availability for Apocryphal Procs besides the one we're about to deal with is presumably limited. Likely to be a teeth-clenched teamwork one time bailout at best. I will be very surprised if we have any regular level of interaction.

Wolber Strobe(Committed, 12 Arete) - Something about our interaction convinces him to move to the Voyaging Realm/Human Sphere and we actually have the ability to eventually get past our first impression with him. Pros: Near 100 Percent Availability. Imperial Praxis user guaranteed to be relevant against most things for the forseeable future. Helpful for magiscience projects/highly insightful. Spends time training in the praxis enabling him to keep up with us for a while. Cons: Helping him deal with the people around us. Not a viable long term peer barring a miracle or significant investment into him. Needing to help him with his Apocrypha procs. Quintessential glass cannon.
 
[X] Daylian Erranthus [Committed, 7 Arete]

Having another example of a progression cursebearer around might let Gisena reverse engineer a better version of retinue.

Angel girl is cool and all but not 50 arete cool and Daylian provides a useful ally that doesn't completely overshadow Hunger and has automatic scaling. It'll also be funny to have Hunger be the voice of reason for once.
 
I'll put up an effortpost later for sure, but the only insight I have right now is that each character choice selects a different part of Hunger's personality to explore. Daylian seems like a chance to see Hunger act like a friend, Wolber will showcase Hunger's character flaws, and Haeliel will illustrate how much growth Hunger has in front of him. I'm trying to be objective here, but I can already tell that I have a preferred option.

With Daylian, Hunger will have a peer to compete with. Hopefully it will be one who is "good natured" enough to ignore the worst Tyrant outbursts. We will have to chase after a daredevil who is even more careless about risk taking than we are.

With Wolber, Hunger will have an immediate dislike and might be mean to the frail nerd. We will probably get burnt by ignoring objectively good advice more than once before the characters learn to work together.

With Haeliel, Hunger will be in the subordinate position w/r/t power. This might be a chance to learn about how to operate inside a hierarchy without burning everything down at the first Tyrant proc. On the other hand, this limits our Sponsor's screentime to rare crossover episodes.
 
Tryna do something cool but can't on my phone so have to wait til I can get to my laptop. No one steal the idea in my head before that, thanks.
 
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