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A Simple Transaction I

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SpectatingRaven said:
That type of thinking is going to kill us. We managed fine against the Rotbeast because we were allowed to snap buy Astral Thorn. Otherwise it would have been a slog of a fight with a lot more casualties and complications. I'm saying now that there might be no convenient snap buys and instant power ups so we don't get to easily cross the gap in power. We got off easily this time because of Gisena. We got off easily the previous time because we got the conditions to snap buy a Praxis technique. Don't underestimate Apocrypha then fucking boost it.
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It cannot be the case that every Apocryphal fight must be met with a snap purchase. If that were true, then the Apocryphal is simply a death sentence. Indeed, there's WoG that it is possible to survive the curse even with zero Arete expenditure. We are at considerably more than 0 Arete expenditure.

We are not facing a malicious DM, who can just say Rocks Fall, Everybody Dies. We are facing a string of interesting situations which are "usually not be beyond [our] ability to overcome." Rihaku has pointed out that the curse only has imperfect scaling relative to Hunger's level of power. When we have outscaled it, that is the time to take reasonable risks.

What payoff makes this risk reasonable? One that guarantees a 7x improvement in our offensive and defensive parameters is a good place to start. Triple Praxis (with strain) guarantees that.

What payoff makes this risk reasonable? One that promises absolute immunity to attack below the universe-destroying level would be another path forward. Intensive research is also highly likely to give us traction on the mage extraction problem.
 
Zampano said:
It cannot be the case that every Apocryphal fight must be met with a snap purchase. If that were true, then the Apocryphal is simply a death sentence. Indeed, there's WoG that it is possible to survive the curse even with zero Arete expenditure. We are at considerably more than 0 Arete expenditure.

We are not facing a malicious DM, who can just say Rocks Fall, Everybody Dies. We are facing a string of interesting situations which are "usually not be beyond [our] ability to overcome." Rihaku has pointed out that the curse only has imperfect scaling relative to Hunger's level of power. When we have outscaled it, that is the time to take reasonable risks.

What payoff makes this risk reasonable? One that guarantees a 7x improvement in our offensive and defensive parameters is a good place to start. Triple Praxis (with strain) guarantees that.

What payoff makes this risk reasonable? One that promises absolute immunity to attack below the universe-destroying level would be another path forward. Intensive research is also highly likely to give us traction on the mage extraction problem.
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And you are still underestimating it. Yeah its not Rock Falls Everyone Dies the Curse but as seen with Augustine it doesn't need to. It didn't boost her base power and let her have a power boost but rather just nudged her to preparing the right spells to counter us and remove our Rank advantage. We would have won without Gisena but with punishing complications but thanks to her being the genius she is we got off lightly. It doesn't need to kill us when it could make us suffer under lots of complications. A Death By A Thousand Cuts.

Don't think the Praxis is an all defeating solution too. Our Astral Thorn having been not improved required multiple casting to defeat her defences. The 7× Stats has a counter too just like Rank and probably whatever Signs we get. The Apocrypha could pull all sorts of stuff out of its ass and have the exact counter to us.

It will not probably kill us but it will make us bleed if we underestimate it like you are doing.
 
SpectatingRaven said:
And you are still underestimating it. Yeah its not Rock Falls Everyone Dies the Curse but as seen with Augustine it doesn't need to. It didn't boost her base power and let her have a power boost but rather just nudged her to preparing the right spells to counter us and remove our Rank advantage. We would have won without Gisena but with punishing complications but thanks to her being the genius she is we got off lightly. It doesn't need to kill us when it could make us suffer under lots of complications. A Death By A Thousand Cuts.

Don't think the Praxis is an all defeating solution too. Our Astral Thorn having been not improved required multiple casting to defeat her defences. The 7× Stats has a counter too just like Rank and probably whatever Signs we get. The Apocrypha could pull all sorts of stuff out of its ass and have the exact counter to us.

It will not probably kill us but it will make us bleed if we underestimate it like you are doing.
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So now we've backed up from "That type of thinking is going to kill us" to "punishing complications." The thing is, if we have a proc right away, that gives us three weeks of healing to recover from any complications or lasting effects. If we have a proc after our time in the Realm of Evening, then we will have three weeks worth of advancement in a realm with almost infinite ability to generate resources. The only outcome that is worth worrying about is where the next proc burns rerolls to prevent it from killing us outright. But that outcome is less likely than ever before if we get Refinement of Battle or the 5th Empyrean Sign!

Everything has a counter. Sure. But the point of getting Refinement of Battle is that it eliminates some of our biggest weaknesses by bringing our Stats closer to matching our Rank. If we have both extreme Rank and extreme stats, then attacks that undermine one or the other are no longer silver bullets. Also, remember that one of the Empyrean Signs we turned down would have given us effective immunity to Augustine's task: Indomitable Dominion would have blocked targeted spells like the one that tried to sever our soul's connection to the Astral plane. Widening our build directly improves our ability to withstand Apocryphal attacks. Refinement of Battle and the Empyrean Signs both accomplish that goal.
 
Zampano said:
So now we've backed up from "That type of thinking is going to kill us" to "punishing complications." The thing is, if we have a proc right away, that gives us three weeks of healing to recover from any complications or lasting effects. If we have a proc after our time in the Realm of Evening, then we will have three weeks worth of advancement in a realm with almost infinite ability to generate resources. The only outcome that is worth worrying about is where the next proc burns rerolls to prevent it from killing us outright. But that outcome is less likely than ever before if we get Refinement of Battle or the 5th Empyrean Sign!

Everything has a counter. Sure. But the point of getting Refinement of Battle is that it eliminates some of our biggest weaknesses by bringing our Stats closer to matching our Rank. If we have both extreme Rank and extreme stats, then attacks that undermine one or the other are no longer silver bullets. Also, remember that one of the Empyrean Signs we turned down would have given us effective immunity to Augustine's task: Indomitable Dominion would have blocked targeted spells like the one that tried to sever our soul's connection to the Astral plane. Widening our build directly improves our ability to withstand Apocryphal attacks. Refinement of Battle and the Empyrean Signs both accomplish that goal.
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Its interesting times the curse not every three weeks complications the curse. You expecting it to follow your neat timeline and expectations when it could suddenly arrange things to get out of control is really dangerous. And patching up our build doesn't suddenly makes the boosted Apocrypha manageable. Broadening our abilities doesn't make the danger lesser just cut off easy avenues of attack.

Look we are both just gonna disagree on this matter. You are saying the Praxis or Signs plus Pillars is capable of solving whatever the problem is, I'm saying the boosted Apocrypha is gonna smash all the preparations to pieces and make us scramble for a solution.
 
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Rihaku said:
The man had attacked them without provocation. Now that the tides had shifted he wanted to parley? Absurd. His audacity was impressive, but a tactic that disingenuous didn't even deserve a response.

He struck, a terrible reaving arc of blade-force meant to split the pirate from shoulder to sternum, but the black-armored man reacted quickly and caught the blow on his shield. The sheer pressure of the attack tore a gouge in the metal, shards spraying upwards in a flying plume as the man visibly staggered under the blow. Hunger was already moving, swapping knife-edge to pommel as he closed to strike the man across the helm.

This time. This time he wouldn't need to be rescued, by his wife or anyone else. This time he would end the threat before it could claim them. Whatever cost necessary would be paid from his own body.

His blow struck true; the pirate's helm tolled like an evening bell as it deformed, deflecting and radiating the strength of the blow as force became sound's echo. He was forced back, repelled by the dispersed vigor of his own blow. Still the power of ruin was not easily denied; blood dribbled through the slits in the pirate's visor.
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well, that's a good start.

Wouldn't it be funny if we later discovered these people were actually good guys and this was REALLY all a misunderstanding?

VERY unlikely, but it would be a fun way for the Apocryphal Curse to hit us.

Rihaku said:
Despite the prodigious ferocity of his assault, the enemy was not totally hapless. In one decisive motion the pirate discarded his shield and lunged forward just as Hunger made to withdraw. They toppled in an ungainly grapple, impossible weight of the pirate's armor bearing down on him, pinning him to the deck. He struck with his sword through a gap in the armor but felt resistance beneath, as if punching through clay. Shadows curled and boiled off that armor, pinning him to the deck, obstructing his sight.
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look, if there's something that d&d taught me is that NOBODY understand grapple rules. We just need to wait for the moment he realizes he doesn't know what he has to roll!

oh, wait, we're not running on d&d 3.5.

my bad, you may proceed evil pirate! :V

Rihaku said:
The pirate reared back and smashed his head into Hunger's own. For a moment the world went static and white, then bright agony ripped through his side. With desperate strength he heaved forward, hurling his opponent back and retreating to the middle distance. A sharp pain in his torso brought him up short, and he looked down to see the violent-flame blade of his enemy hanging from his side. Luckily it had slid between his oblique muscles, missing his liver and intestines. The pain was terrific, horrible, but a meagre shadow of the least cut from the Tyrant's personal blade. Even the flames of this blade sheeted and sputtered away from his flesh, as if afraid to burn him.

He raised his eyes to the enemy, who was panting heavily, gathering himself for another strike. He shook his head. This man wasn't the Tyrant. He wasn't even a poor imitation.
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good of you to notice the difference, Hunger.

He was still good enough to hurt you though.
Rihaku said:
Blood dripped steadily from his wound. He pulled the flame-blade free and tossed it overboard. Foolish of him to get wounded. Reckless to rush in without knowing the armor's capabilities. Pommel to the head would murder most armored knights, but he'd been over-eager, closing the distance against an opponent with all four limbs and greater mass than his own.
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but what is the power of 4 limbs compared to the power of accretion?!
Rihaku said:
His enemy was just a skilled thug with a formidable suit of plate, deprived of a weapon that wasn't worth one-tenth of the Forebear's Blade. Fury had ruled Hunger, made him sloppy. No more. Today, there were people counting on him still. He would dismantle this enemy properly.

The pirate juked to the side, going low, hand outstretched for the ballista bolt embedded in his comrade. Hunger sent a blade-wind into those fingers, shearing off dark scraps of plate and throwing the man off-balance. He followed with a thrust projection, pure killing force that shivered through the air and struck the pirate's chest, knocking him onto his ass. Given the weight of his armor, there was no recovery from that position.

Hunger drew deep upon the well of power within him, summoning forth a tide, a tempest of murderous cuts; sword-breath that hummed and pulsed like a buzzsaw's edge, that curved and shrieked like carrion birds.

With each blow the armor rang, reflecting and dispersing the main power of his strikes, but the persistence of his onslaught had the plate chiming lower and lower, its efforts grown feebler and feebler, until the battered darkness bled from the armor and fled into the crevices between worlds, abandoning its wearer to his doom. The ring flared upon his finger, a fresh well of power flooding him once more.
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the armor was pretty good.

Also did Hunger get power here because he won, or because he basically destroyed and absorbed the armor's power?

Rihaku said:
Victory, though the price had been steep.

"Wait, mercy, please-"

Now he advanced to melee range, kicking open the man's visor to reveal eyes of deep blue, trembling and terrified.

The Forebear's Blade descended, a swift and painless ending. While he lived in interesting times, best not to keep any enemies alive lest they fester and grow strong.
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sensible, pragmatic, and quite a bit heartless of him.

Still, he's right. The curse would make it so that an enemy spared would come back to us, unless we had VERY good reasons to believe otherwise we can't afford mercy.

After all Mercy is a luxury that only the truly strong can afford.

Rihaku said:
As the man died a new sensation emerged from the ring, an onrushing infusion of blood and vigor, vitality wound so tightly within him that it seemed fit to burst. Hunger, and the Curse of Hunger, the Affliction of the Decimator that drained life from the world, would be sated for a time.

That had been closer than it looked. If his opponent's blade had been positioned more adroitly, if he'd failed to rally and properly create distance... the man was not skilled enough to overcome him in full, but he could have ended up far more grievously wounded.
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and the lesson is: we need better tactics. Also more power, but that's a given.
Rihaku said:
That had been closer than it looked. If his opponent's blade had been positioned more adroitly, if he'd failed to rally and properly create distance... the man was not skilled enough to overcome him in full, but he could have ended up far more grievously wounded.

No time to dwell. He turned and fired his grappling hook, attaching it to the Armament, and ran up the rope. Blood leaked continuously from his side. The pain would distract him, hamper his mobility, but the power of his legend and the Forebear's Blade would ensure his survival and eventual recovery.

Gisena had taken a few wounds of her own, a deep gouge in one shoulder and cuts across her midriff and face. Blood flowed freely from a thin laceration of her cheek, a pale red curtain that spilled past neck and shoulder. She smiled brightly at his approach, dancing between a pair of Rift creatures to reach his side.
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Tis but a flesh wound. And yet somehow I didn't really expect Gisena to get hurt.

I overestimated her a bit. I have to remember that outside of her anti-magic she's not THAT strong

Rihaku said:
"Aw, were you worried about me? You shouldn't have. This gun is so much fun to play with! Propulsion of a kinetic impactor via chemical energy, what an ingenious idea..."

"Stand back and don't bleed on me."

"My, how dashing!"

"Thanks. I'm the veritable flower of chivalry, killing pirates and now monsters."

"Such a dainty flower, I may just swoon!"
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but does this dainty flower have dainty feet?

Here I am, asking the important questions!

Also if that's her reaction to a gun I wonder how she'll react to even more advanced things..

Rihaku said:
They cleaned up the Astral beasts in short order and Gisena sealed the rift. Luckily, no further surprises were waiting for them on the river bank. Letrizia, prepared as always, had medical supplies in her cockpit, but Gisena waved them off.

"As cute as I'd look with a bandaged cheek, it's better to save our resources. The Grace of the Maiden means I'll heal faultlessly and without scars!"

He looked grimly down at his own wound, one more scar for the tapestry. "How convenient."
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I hear some jealousy :V

Rihaku said:
She grinned, learning forward. "Isn't it? I know you'd just be heartbroken if my dazzling beauty was marred."

"You should work on your dazzling ego."

"That's just empirical self-assessment, a scientist's first technique! Speaking of which, how is your wound?" She laid a gentle finger on a spot near the injury.

"How do you think? It fucking hurts."

She giggled. "I'd offer to kiss it better, but you haven't quite earned that, have you?"

"I'd rather have one of Letrizia's bandages."
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I disagree! Kiss it better, I dare you!

Rihaku said:
Letrizia perked up. "I've got medical salve as well! It'll numb the pain and promote healing."

He nodded. "Good to hear."

Opening her medical kit, she began applying the cream. "You'll be good as new in no time!"

"Or my money back?"

"Huh? ...A-As if you're paying me enough for this! Be honored that a Duchess is tending to you personally!"

"You're supposed to be paying me. And Gisena and I are both nobles."

"W-well, consider this a bonus!"
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Poor Letrizia. She tries :V

At least she's doing better than Suizhen. After all she hasn't even bought a single bridge since we met her!

Rihaku said:
He glanced past the pilot to her Armament, the beast's head silent and staring vigilantly forward. The sense of affinity between them seemed to have dulled somewhat, the sharp edge of its keening blunted by some unseen factor.

"I'm hungry. After you're done, let's go fishing."

"F-fishing?"

"You use a rod and line to catch fish. Haven't heard of it?"

"That's rather primitive," Gisena interjected. "I've got a better idea! Find a school of fish, then drop chemical explosives near them. Water is hard to compress, so it'll be even more effective than on land! We can re-purpose the defunct munitions launcher on Verschlengorge's shoulder..."

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...Well, I doubt it's actually illegal there, and even if it was why would they care.

Still, Gisena just invented Blast Fishing!

Rihaku said:
The winning vote was [X] Knowledge and [X] No Quarter. You have are at roughly 82% of your health but due to your Accretion Rank are fighting at 91% of full strength.

The pirate's dead; what spoils did the ring of power extract from his defeat? You currently have 2.8 Arete. Choose 2 of the options below, along with any suboptions you can afford. A number of the options below are unique to this point in time.
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so Double Letrizia and single Gisena won. Reasonable enough I guess. Also we get the chance to spend Arete for the first time. I think it was 2.2 arete = 1bp?
Rihaku said:
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might. Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]
-[ ] 2 Arete: Undying Echo - The Forebear could withstand unbelievable punishment, only to rise again. [+++Constitution]
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so, the same physical boost we could get before, and a massive constitution boost if we spend Arete here. Not bad, we'd likely come out better than we entered the fight with this one.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke - A devastating blow of unutterable magnificence from which no recovery is possible. A powerful, but draining strike that inflicts cursed wounds from which spirit and will leak as freely as blood. Resists healing.
-[ ] 7 Arete: A Thousand Cuts - In the Forebear's grip could even a common knife blaze with fell power. All melee attacks made with the Forebear's Blade now apply cursed wounds. Septuples the power and speed of the Fell-Handed Stroke and allows it to be used with blade projections. Such horrific offensive power allows one to challenge foes vastly stronger.
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The same special attack of before, but also a version that apply that cursed status to ALL our attacks, + a 7x power/speed increase to our ultimate, and it ALSO makes it a ranged attack.

It's basically a Further Beyond though. Pretty expensive, I don't think we can afford it before the next update, though it would be very useful. Right now we really lack a good finisher, and that's without considering the massive gains to our base hitting power.

Rihaku said:
[ ] 2 Arete: Sword That Was Stolen - King of Thieves - It is the prerogative of the hero true to take the implements of his enemy and turn them against him. For what righteous weapon could deny the verity of his cause, or the valor with which he pursued it?

[++Agility, +Stealth, +Theft], and combat experience now yields some degree of thieving skills. Increases ease and power of the Abduction Forbidden Art.

[ ] 7 Arete: Evening Sky - Star-stuff and velvet darkness in a mantle like billowing clouds. The power of this mantle withstands supernal force and deflects the merely mundane, granting comprehensive protection against many of the ills of the mortal realm and beyond. Abducted by he who hungers, cast now into his thrall. He who dons this mantle speaks with the voice of Evening and shares its haunting majesty. Progression can unlock further abilities.

[++Protection, ++Charisma, grants superior resistance to a wide array of status effects such as poison, mental interference, suffocation, bleeding out, etc. Somewhat vulnerable to dispellation, but acts as an ablative layer to protect the wearer from such.]
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uh, the first mention of forbidden arts! So, thief skills with 2 points, and what seems like a possibly improved version of the pirate's armor's powers.

varied array of defenses, and charisma too!

And yet, I don't think we can afford the 7 points.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Hunger - Sleep of the Just - While sleeping, the character is massively more difficult to harm or forcibly move, and may choose to deny interruptions to his slumber, allowing his body to be used as a potent shield.
-[ ] 2 Arete: Slumber of Aeons - Increases well-rested threshold to 10 hours per day, but hours of sleep can now be banked up to a month in advance. Dramatically increases strength gained with age.
-[ ] 25 Arete: Dead But Dreaming - That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons... Death merely induces slumber in the wearer until the heavens align for his emergence once more. Gain access to the [Outer Sorcery] skill, by which means one's dreams may twist reality towards one's purposes. Apply the effects of To Shatter Heaven to [Outer Sorcery].

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Base version seems useless. The 2 points is not bad, as it would allow us to take advantage of calm periods of time while also accelerating our passive growth.

25 points is basically an EVEN FURTHERER BEYONDER, but we OBVIOUSLY can't afford it, so it doesn't matter.

It's also the first mention of NEW MAGICAL SKILLS!

Outer Sorcery... would we basically get lovecraftian magic?

One also has to wonder just how long it would take for us to rez, and what happens/WHERE we wake up if our body is completely destroyed.

While I'm curious about the Outer Sorcery it's obviously not something that we're going to get anytime soon.

...I'm now also wondering, would we STILL passively drain life energy while sort-of-dead? Probably so, these curses are annoying like that...
Rihaku said:
A Hunger Sated - Temporary condition that causes the Decimator's Affliction to abate completely for a time. You may upgrade it with Arete. By default: Reduces progress from Hunger by 10% for a month. During that month the Decimator's Affliction slumbers.

[ ] 2 Arete: Quelling - Instead halves the drain rate of the Decimator's Affliction for six months. Additional unknown effect.
[ ] 7 Arete: Conclusion - Reduces progress by 25% instead, but lasts 2 years. It is easier for the hero to find some measure of peace with regards to the losses suffered at the Tyrant's hands, and is less likely to be emotionally compromised by events that remind him of such. Gives you the moral high ground and the ability to travel to lands barren of life, like outer space. Additional unknown effect.

The primary means to gain Arete, as opposed to Experience are:
*Thread participation in the form of (non-spam, non-GM) posts and discussion. Calculated every story/major update.
*Fanworks of all kinds, including reactions, etc
*A sizable additional bonus is applied for non-voting discussion. Almost all discussion unrelated to the current vote qualifies - story & setting or character discussion, making long-term plans, commenting/reacting to sections of the update not related to the vote, commenting/reacting to others' fanworks and speculations, etc.
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...I don't get it.

base version nullifies the affliction for a month. ok.

2 point halves it for 6 months, + mystery box. We're still draining 4.5% though.

7 points... if it's 25& of the curse (so it would go down by 2.5%) for two years it's TECHNICALLY the best in the long term, but how does this give us the moral high ground? We're still stealing life energy, even if at a reduced rate.


Well, it will probably be explained better in another post. I doubt I'm the only one with doubts about this.

Right now I'll assume we WON'T get to 7 arete before the next updates (unless a consolidation happens), so I'll say that I'd pick

[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might. Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]
-[ ] 2 Arete: Undying Echo - The Forebear could withstand unbelievable punishment, only to rise again. [+++Constitution]


for the general fighting boost, and... one of the other 2 points, though I'm not sure which one.

If we got to 7 I'd probably take one of the 7 point options, though I'm not sure which one. Probably the cursed attack one.



868 words
 
Pittauro said:
7 points... if it's 25& of the curse (so it would go down by 2.5%) for two years it's TECHNICALLY the best in the long term, but how does this give us the moral high ground? We're still stealing life energy, even if at a reduced rate.
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The 7 Arete option reduces the rate Hunger grows by 25% and in exchange decimation is completely stopped for a full 2 years. The moral high ground is that Hunger gives up some of his future progression in exchange for the well-being of those around him.
 
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Tyrant_Rayne said:
The 7 Arete option reduces the rate Hunger grows by 25% and in exchange decimation is completely stopped for a full 2 years. The moral high ground is that Hunger gives up some of his future progression in exchange for the well-being of those around him.
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Can we spend 7 arete on that now? :V Seems pretty ok.
 
Ultimately trying to outscale Apoc is a short term solution. It always catches up. Far more important is true mitigation (ex:RW, companions, mental stats).

If the plan is to do repeated Temple 2.0s to handle escalation of Bers, at some point we'll die. Or well, just burn a lotta rerolls (...) and maybe the defensive wish that we apparently have I guess.

Having more power but having to spend it ZK style continually escalating is not sustainable without endless Arete mining. I suppose we could try that, but it doesn't seem an enjoyable quest experience and environment to have constantly.
 
[X] Sightseeing
[X] Mentor's Duties

I'm voting this because I know that when pillars come up were gonna have a similar choice of work with UNLIMITED resources or relax, and I bet the shinies are gonna be even better than they are right now. I'd rather get our chill mental health benefits now and train when we can call up anything we need. I won't be too upset if signs build wins though because we can't focus on the realm while in pillars time.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Tyrant_Rayne on Sep 28, 2020 at 11:14 PM, finished with 186 posts and 48 votes.
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Currently, it looks like "2x Rulership combo" is winning, with "Comfy Quest finally" trailing slightly behind. Also it looks like "Drive yourself insane for power" is losing, for now anyways. Have we finally stopped our recklessness?

I wish Intensive Research was higher up though - Intensive + Consolidate gives a free 4th sign, giving us some power growth without the dangerous Apocryphal upgrade and Mental Stability hit. It's a very good middle ground between "No power, full comfy" and "Mental Stability and avoiding danger is for sissies." I've noticed a tendency in recent votes for compromise options to fall off, being ignored in favor of Extremes, which seems to be holding here. Strange, back in the day compromise options were very successful. Maybe the thread's attitude has changed?
 
Posting another tally because I think the single-option tally is very misleading and would result in a vote combination not voted by the majority to actually win.
Adhoc vote count started by BrainInAJar on Sep 28, 2020 at 11:44 PM, finished with 190 posts and 48 votes.
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Rihaku said:
Looks to be a tightly contested vote! Especially with the omake power distribution as it currently stands...
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Someone should try offering Pittauro markers to secure his vote, the diligent reactions make it quite valuable. He doesn't have a horse in this race yet and the vote weighting will have expired by the time he catches up, though needless to say the Arete and set of fresh eyes are both appreciated in their own right.

Of course, this and all other considerations will be but dust in the wind when DarkSideBard unveils his Final Form. No walls of GPT-2 or argumentative agility can shield us from that storm.
 
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