A Harry Potter Quest: He who was not

[X] "You guide the way." - You like dueling, clearly, but you don't have any aspiration to it. While trying your very best may be a bit much, you will invest some brain matter into developing your skills to further improve. But this is not an overly important matter to you in the end.

[X] "You guide the way." - You like dueling, clearly, but you don't have any aspiration to it. While trying your very best may be a bit much, you will invest some brain matter into developing your skills to further improve. But this is not an overly important matter to you in the end.

I like this option. To me it encompasses their relationship through dueling so far. Jacob likes learing and he also like pushing Tracey. And I think this does that without trying to over do it. He wants to learn and explore and keep safe. But he also wants to keep up with Tracey.

My 2 cents.

Honestly I just think that dedicating himself towards doing his best with dueling is a fitting thing for Jacob, if our plans for learning spells to keep up with Dueling Club is influencing Jacob at all.

RookDeSuit said:

I'm about confused with your argument here. I agree with everything up to the underlined statements, but the following logic doesn't fit. We don't need to do option 3 for Jacob to learn self-defense. We're already doing that by learning spells and reviewing past knowledge. Heck, several prior plans had Jacob attempting to learn new spells specifically for the purposes of staying challenging for our fellow members in dueling club.

Then there is the latter statement based on how Jacob doesn't need to build his identity around dueling. However, Option 3 is the one where Jacob's feels the strongest regarding duels. In a very real way, option 3 makes dueling part of his identity whereas Option 2 is more inline with the stated desire to limit dueling as a facet of our personality and not a full part.

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I ended up editing/changing my vote if you check above.

SuperSonicSound said:

I feel we shouldn't be afraid of attribute training failure. Yes it's sad that the action is essentially wasted but if we want to be great it's going to be something we have to suck up. At least to the point where we have stats at the 6-7 range. Garunted success for the lower attributes is nice but it's also slightly less meaningful. Ultimately I'd love to train our stats to 6-7 before we put level up points into them.

Two attributes at 6 means we could level up and push them both to 7, that opens up getting skill 12 in all skills that use those two attributes and with Int and creativity that opens enough options up that we could feasibly aim for skill 15 in charms or DADA by the end of this year for instance. My ideal scenario is that come the next level up we've a stat at 7 and can drop two level up stats into it to get the stat to 9. I'd probably choose int for this. it should easily be possible to train constitution and Empathy to 4 before then as well.

AS we're likely to be two turns away from a level up I think it's okay to risk attribute training failure.

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I think your potential plan is missing the forest for the trees. Based on our Attributes when we started the Chargen, I'm thinking that an attribute of 3 for our age group is pretty damn high, probably the best. I don't think anyone in our age group has anything higher than a 4 in their specialty. Throwing away actions just because you want to raise them higher this way doesn't make sense to me. It seems similar to the phrase, 'perfect is the enemy of good'. Any Attribute training with a DC 50 seems risky.

We could be learning spells with these actions instead of trying to raise an attribute by 1 point. And we do need to learn spells. The simple fact of the matter is that we need to dedicate 2-3 actions on spells/potions every month if we want to have them all done by the end of the year (that doesn't include the Advanced Protego btw). And yes, that is accurate. I mapped it out specifically so I could know how much leeway we had with learning spells/potions and how long it would take (closer to 3 actions a month tbh). We don't have time to sit around studying for months on end to maybe raise an attribute by 1.

Honestly, the best path forward so that we don't possibly waste valuable Personal Actions is to try to train Attributes until we reach DC 40. That is the sweet spot where the risk of training them up with actions turns from acceptable to risky. At that point we should start to switch to a level up build and start doing more Exploration and taking more Cases to level up and raise them up that way.

[X] "You guide the way." - You like dueling, clearly, but you don't have any aspiration to it. While trying your very best may be a bit much, you will invest some brain matter into developing your skills to further improve. But this is not an overly important matter to you in the end.

Hm, in this situation, the trope that comes to mind is Spirited Competitor. For the Spirited Competitor, winning or losing is not what is truly important to them. What ultimately matters to them is the chance to face a challenge, of being able to test themselves against worthy rivals over and over again.

I would not mind Jacob and Tracey being Spirited Competitor, Worthy and Friendly Rivals to one another.

[X] "This is the Road to the Top" – Tracey's goal seems to be clear. She wants to rise in ranks, however long it takes her. Her fierceness inspires you as well; this is something you can do. You will aim to win the dueling tournament at the end of this year, however farfetched that goal is. Because this feels like something that could be a lot of fun.

[X] "You guide the way." - You like dueling, clearly, but you don't have any aspiration to it. While trying your very best may be a bit much, you will invest some brain matter into developing your skills to further improve. But this is not an overly important matter to you in the end.

RookDeSuit said:

an active hobby

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While I don't necessarily disagree with anything else you said, I disagree with this. Second choice is not the "hobby" choice - you do hobby because you like doing it, not because you're interested in hanging with people who do it.

@BeepSmile we got different tastes then. Coming along for company but not putting forth the best of Jacob's abilities doesn't appeal to me.

ShyGuy said:

I don't think anyone in our age group has anything higher than a 4 in their specialty.

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Had this been 10 in universe years later, I'd agree with you. But unfortunatly, the Golden Trio are here. But if we don't count them, I agree.

Tzaphquiel said:

I would not mind Jacob and Tracey being Spirited Competitor, Worthy and Friendly Rivals to one another.

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To be rivals though, wouldn't you need to be aiming for the same thing? Which is what the third option is.

And I don't know about you, but I'm imagining a Future!Jacob that has a passion for some kind of magic archeology and dueling to be an interesting type of character.

[X] "You guide the way." - You like dueling, clearly, but you don't have any aspiration to it. While trying your very best may be a bit much, you will invest some brain matter into developing your skills to further improve. But this is not an overly important matter to you in the end.

ShyGuy said:

I think your potential plan is missing the forest for the trees. Based on our Attributes when we started the Chargen, I'm thinking that an attribute of 3 for our age group is pretty damn high, probably the best. I don't think anyone in our age group has anything higher than a 4 in their specialty. Throwing away actions just because you want to raise them higher this way doesn't make sense to me. It seems similar to the phrase, 'perfect is the enemy of good'. Any Attribute training with a DC 50 seems risky.

We could be learning spells with these actions instead of trying to raise an attribute by 1 point. And we do need to learn spells. The simple fact of the matter is that we need to dedicate 2-3 actions on spells/potions every month if we want to have them all done by the end of the year (that doesn't include the Advanced Protego btw). And yes, that is accurate. I mapped it out specifically so I could know how much leeway we had with learning spells/potions and how long it would take (closer to 3 actions a month tbh). We don't have time to sit around studying for months on end to maybe raise an attribute by 1.

Honestly, the best path forward so that we don't possibly waste valuable Personal Actions is to try to train Attributes until we reach DC 40. That is the sweet spot where the risk of training them up with actions turns from acceptable to risky. At that point we should start to switch to a level up build and start doing more Exploration and taking more Cases to level up and raise them up that way.

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Does that planning include seeing how a attribute focus backloads spell learning? The real benefit on such a plan is that it means we can get to Skill 12 rather rapidly in any skills we want, that leads to a bonus of 36 or so to any spell learning.

The problem with DC40 is you're basically saying that we should train an attribute to 5 and no higher, if that's what we're going to do we might as well not bother with an attribute or skill training in the plans at all as the benefits from high skill training aren't apparent in anything other than a skill gate keeping level until you get to 11+ where each point matters massively more at least in the short to mid term.

Consider the plan I posted earlier which has us with a 36+ bonus to spell training for DADA by February, throw 6 spell training actions in there and we're getting around 500 DC worth of spell learning a turn that would clear nearly every DADA spell on the list. Even including the Patronus charm.

The attribute training plan I put together still puts spell training in any way. It just front loads a lot of stat and skill advancement to progress more rapidly in the mid point.

Diffindo – DADA. The Severing Charm is a charm used to precisely and accurately cut something. It is taught in second year charms classes, and if used inappropriately can cause death or injury. DC 50.

Expelliarmus (Needed for exams at the end of the year) - DADA. The Disarming Charm, is a defensive charm which forces the victim to release whatever they were holding at the time. It is common to see this spell used in duels, to make an opponent release their wand. (Requires Charm and DADA skill of at least D+), DC 100

Expecto Patronum - What stops an unstoppable force? - DADA. The Patronus Charm, is a ancient and mysterious charm conjures a magical guardian, a projection of all your most positive feelings. The Patronus Charm is difficult, and many witches and wizards are unable to produce a full, corporeal Patronus, a guardian which generally takes the shape of the animal with whom they share the deepest affinity. You may suspect, but you will never truly know what form your Patronus will take until you succeed in conjuring (Requires Charm and DADA skill of at least P), DC 500, DC 300 + New trait if learned while Lupin is Professor.

New Spell Research, Protego (Deep Understanding) – DADA. Stronger version of the Shield Charm. Protego is a term applied to several varieties of charms. They create a magical barrier to deflect physical entities and spells, in order to protect a certain person or area. Conjurations may sometimes rebound directly off it back towards the caster or in other cases, may ricochet off in other directions or dissipate as soon as they hit the shield. Requires DADA Skill of A, gives a +15 to defending rolls. DC: 150

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Any way, why compare Jacobs skill to his current peers rather than the people he's likely to face in the duelling tournament which will include older students unless I've misunderstood things, if we want to beat them as well then we need to optimise at least a little to ensure we'll have skills that surpass them and the best way to do that is to build your plan around getting a skill to 12 early so you can bump all the spell learning rolls and mechanically I believe it's intended that unless you start hitting into those 10+ range in attributes and skills the difference between any wizard is going to be pretty minor. The only differentiating factor will be known spells.

I believe it's possible with good planning to have skills in the 11-12 range and know as many spells as our most accomplished peers, then we'll race ahead towards the end of the year on the strength of building a strong foundation.

DarkKing98 said:

To be rivals though, wouldn't you need to be aiming for the same thing? Which is what the third option is.

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Not sure about that. The third option has this undertone of something harsher then rivals.

RookDeSuit said:

Not sure about that. The third option has this undertone of something harsher then rivals.

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Hmm, what are you envisaging, because I see a friendly rivalry from that option.

SuperSonicSound said:

snip

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Yeah there's a MASSIVE issue with your logic here.

Tabula Rasa said:

To get a feeling as to what the grades even mean, it is rare for a student to reach skill levels of Exceeds Expectations (E) during his school life in Hogwarts and very rare for someone to reach skill levels of Outstanding (O). It happens at times with the best students of a given subjects, but only few times in a generation for multiple subjects. Only the brightest minds reached so far beyond what is expected of them. A good absolvent moves in the range of Acceptable (A), while most never even reach that.

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Please read what QM says about this. Especially the part I have bolded. Seriously, some of you guys are far to hyper focused on the damned numbers and not what actually matters. Seriously, you're even missing the blatantly obvious issues of trying to get a stat passed 6 is going to take quite a few attempts, and that spells offer better bonuses than stats and skills ever will for a LONG time.

SuperSonicSound said:

snip

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I see where you are going with that plan. But frontloading all that training for attributes only works if the dice are kind and other opportunities don't pop up. To get our Intellect up 2 more points the natural way you are likely looking to spend around average 3 - 4 Personal Actions on it alone. We don't live in a vacuum however. Another spell may pop up on our list that we feel the need to learn immediately in order to complete some special event or challenge. We may find something awesome in Ancient Runes Club that forces us to put some time into brushing up on the subject or maybe researching it. We may need to learn some additional spells in order to complete some Exploration actions.

I'm all for Attribute Training, but in moderation as we only have so many personal actions. There comes a point when the DC becomes too high to train it effectively and we need to rely on stat points from level ups.

Edit:
[X] "This is the Road to the Top" – Tracey's goal seems to be clear. She wants to rise in ranks, however long it takes her. Her fierceness inspires you as well; this is something you can do. You will aim to win the dueling tournament at the end of this year, however farfetched that goal is. Because this feels like something that could be a lot of fun.

Flip-flopped back to this because I think having some fire in him is a good trait to have. Not 100% sure though. May change my mind later again though so who knows. It's a hard vote because I think both option 2 and option 3 have good things going for them. It is tough to decide when you don't think either of them is necessarily a bad option.

Edit2: Also, I hope we can all agree that we should try to aim for at least one social action of some kind every month. Jacob's interaction with his classmates was nice to read. And it is probably good for him to mentally connect with someone with everything going on in his life (Dementers, the Family Book, etc.). It is good and healthy way for him to de-stress.

DarkKing98 said:

Yeah there's a MASSIVE issue with your logic here.

Please read what QM says about this. Especially the part I have bolded. Seriously, some of you guys are far to hyper focused on the damned numbers and not what actually matters. Seriously, you're even missing the blatantly obvious issues of trying to get a stat passed 6 is going to take quite a few attempts, and that spells offer better bonuses than stats and skills ever will for a LONG time.

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Just 5 actions with a 95% chance of success in the case of transfiguration, Dada, and charms.

However, I really don't understand why just because many wizards don't reach that level we shouldn't strive to do better.

[X] "This is the Road to the Top" – Tracey's goal seems to be clear. She wants to rise in ranks, however long it takes her. Her fierceness inspires you as well; this is something you can do. You will aim to win the dueling tournament at the end of this year, however farfetched that goal is. Because this feels like something that could be a lot of fun.

Speaking of the core classes and electives:

Potions (CRT/INT) → D+

Herbology (INT/EMP) → D-

Astronomy (INT) → D-

Ancient Runes (INT) → T

Arithmancy & Magical Theory (CRT/INT) → T

History of Magic (INT/EMP) → D-


Charms, Transfiguration, and Defense are at P-, so the rest need to be improved as well. One more time for Potions to reach P-, and some attempts spread out to get the other classes up to par. Specifically, Ancient Runes and Arithmancy/Magical Theory rather do need to be improved, since Jacob is taking those electives.

In the process, perhaps some time needs to be devoted to improving Alchemy and Occlumency as well.

darknessworld said:

Just 5 actions with a 95% chance of success in the case of transfiguration, Dada, and charms.

However, I really don't understand why just because many wizards don't reach that level we shouldn't strive to do better.

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The issue isn't that we don't want to do better. It is that we don't need to have the ability of a exceptional 7th year while we are still a 3rd year. There are also other things that may pop up. Limited time opportunities where we may need to learn something else. We may find something cool in Rune Club and decide we need to spend some actions there. We may need to learn some specific spell for a Case or Exploration action. Spending 3-4 Actions to maybe get Intellect up by 2 points when we could have knocked down 2 spells or more in that same amount of time doesn't seem to be worth it.

Edit: I guess what it comes down to is that I don't really see the appeal to spending one of our limited personal actions on what is basically a 50% chance of success that gets increasingly worse when we have other things to train and other ways to raise high attributes. Because in the end, leveling up isn't that difficult. I could see the argument if it took 1000 xp to get to the next level, but that isn't the case.

[X] "This is the Road to the Top" – Tracey's goal seems to be clear. She wants to rise in ranks, however long it takes her. Her fierceness inspires you as well; this is something you can do. You will aim to win the dueling tournament at the end of this year, however farfetched that goal is. Because this feels like something that could be a lot of fun.

I feel like having a passion for something, anything, can be a great force when you're a teen. Whether or not that passion flickers out or keeps burning, Jacob will have something to ground his stated tendency towards distraction. Much better than simply going with the wind.

[X] "You guide the way." - You like dueling, clearly, but you don't have any aspiration to it. While trying your very best may be a bit much, you will invest some brain matter into developing your skills to further improve. But this is not an overly important matter to you in the end.

ShyGuy said:

It is that we don't need to have the ability of a exceptional 7th year while we are still a 3rd year.

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Then, what we should do that has an higher chance of success than that.

You talk about limited time opportunities, while you ignore that the ability that gave us such an high chance of success in those classes it's exactly that.

darknessworld said:

Then, what we should do that has an higher chance of success than that.

You talk about limited time opportunities, while you ignore that the ability that gave us such an high chance of success in those classes it's exactly that.

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I'm confused on what you are trying to say? Can you clarify?

Edit: Basically, what I would like to see when you really get down to it is us spending 3 actions a month learning spells/potions. Split the other two up however you want. Spend them on Attribute or Skill training or however you like. Take some minor actions and turn them into more personal actions if you feel the need. As long as we spend around 3 actions learning spells a month, I don't really care as that gives us enough leeway to be prepared in case something unexpected comes up.