A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
But she's a princess regent not a princess.
If I'd ever regretted passing on Tribulation, this would've laid any doubts to rest.
Anyway, Aobaru's fight scene was good, I would watch his anime. Seeing Hunger's Pressure from another perspective was particularly enjoyable; the thunderclap metaphor from Ber was solid gold, but it can be hard to appreciate what Rank does, and this really sold the image of Hunger as a distant titan, his spirit shaping the battlefield. How'd Aeira roll, out of curiosity? She should've been able to disengage at will, but Augustine shouldn't have been able to find Versch and she did decide to target companions...
The Good Idea Fairy is an insidious creature, but if you ignore it it'll return to its lair in the Pentagon in no time.
Too right. The non-ceremonial responsibilities of a regent weigh so heavily on her, it simply wouldn't be safe. Poor Gisena; is it even possible to diet when sustained from within by findross?
- Location
- Pindorama
Having another Hunger-tier fighter is good, and something we arguably need given our required hunt for Mitigation every month, but I really don't feel like spending an EFB on Aobaru right now. Especially when unique opportunities from having defeated the Lord Protector lie just around the corner! Burning Spirit is still quite the upgrade to his power while having the most benefit to us, something that might be quite relevant should we assult Augustine directly! Which is what I really think we should do.
I really don't think we need another party member eating up screentime, especially one that committed such heinous acts in the past! You may say they were justified given the lack of the privileges of Progression-type, but I really can't say that she didn't become quite monstrous in her attempts to defeat one. Would she be a kinder monster, in the end? Who could say. But I really do not think it appropriate do give her a shounen speech of redemption, nor do I think such a thing very likely! Right now, we have good odds of defeating her without major complications, and defeating her is what we want, so we really should do it instead of wheeling around to face another unknown enemy. Time is in our favor here; the more time we have before we face the Shard, the more likely she will be easily defeated! In a way, delaying is our best option.
I really don't think we need another party member eating up screentime, especially one that committed such heinous acts in the past! You may say they were justified given the lack of the privileges of Progression-type, but I really can't say that she didn't become quite monstrous in her attempts to defeat one. Would she be a kinder monster, in the end? Who could say. But I really do not think it appropriate do give her a shounen speech of redemption, nor do I think such a thing very likely! Right now, we have good odds of defeating her without major complications, and defeating her is what we want, so we really should do it instead of wheeling around to face another unknown enemy. Time is in our favor here; the more time we have before we face the Shard, the more likely she will be easily defeated! In a way, delaying is our best option.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
[X] Diplomacy
[X] A Burning Spirit
No need to spend Arete right now. It's quite possible we will get the chance to get Adorie's EFB next vote, that might actually buff Hunger as well
As for Augustine, her dislike of Gisena won me over!
[X] A Burning Spirit
No need to spend Arete right now. It's quite possible we will get the chance to get Adorie's EFB next vote, that might actually buff Hunger as well
As for Augustine, her dislike of Gisena won me over!
Last edited:
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
(854 words.)
Seriously though, here are some arguments for Diplomacy:
*I want to fight the Shard. She's a jerk.
*She and her minions are one of the few remaining Pick sources in reach, and we really kind of need those to unlock Pillars of Creation. (Or Ruling Ring, but that one is even more pick-dependent.)
*Augustine is dangerous in combat, but probably less adroit in the social sphere - she appears to be a Sorceress of the Arcanist, rather than of the Maiden. Also, I suspect a Gisena-tier manipulator would have been just fine conquering the kingdom as a pretty pink princess, rather than dressing up as an evil overlord.
*Get lore and powers.
--Especially utility and short-term-prep - our build doesn't have a lot of infogathering tools, and the latter would really help optimize our action economy.
--Augustine has both, but the Shard likely has greater still.
*Leave the world as well-off as we can.
--Augustine seems like the sort of person who might be convinced to repent, and she's definitely more useful alive than dead. (Remember Sten? We can get picks from beating her, even if we spare her life.)
--Shard of the Arcanist is totally willing to murder innocents for the sake of power. She's also much, much older, and commensurately unlikely to change her principles. Keeping her knowledge would be useful, but the woman herself? Needs not to be a threat to anyone, which probably means dead. ("The only way to keep my family in line would be to bury them in a row", and all that.)
--Obviously the genocide has got to stop. The unification probably isn't a bad thing in principle, though. Can we manage Hungertopia #3, and if so how?
--The soldiers need to be dealt with in such a way that they don't turn to banditry, and ideally return to society as functional members. I think Augustine's plan for this, if she thought that far, was to get most of them meatgrindered in a mutual-kill with the Shard? Alternately, to keep conquering until there's enough land and riches to give them all cushy retirement plans.
All these in mind... what if Hunger pretends to be the Lord Protector? If I'm right about Augustine's powers being souped-up Graces, we can probably mimic a lot of them with Edeldross. That could do several things, including keep the transfer of power from being too messy, but it's only part of a plan.
Need to know more about Augustine's motives. If her deal is "willing to kill tens of hundreds of thousand-thousands of innocent neighbors in order to keep the Shard from torturekilling at her current rate"... well, honestly it might be a net positive in the long term, but surely there's a plan with fewer atrocities total?
Whereas if her deal is closer to "present a united front against the Shard before her ritual finishes and turns the Realms of Myth into a torture dimension, and imperialism was by far the most expedient method the local ontology would support", she would seem a lot more reasonable.
Her motives determine how we can approach her, what to offer, basically everything about diplomacy (and diplomacy-into-violence). So actually, I'll go more detailed:
*The basic tension of her character, as we know it, is between her rage at her parents' crimes, and her willingness to hurt uninvolved parties. How can these resolve?
-Sheer myopia: "I don't care how many innocents I hurt, I just want vengeance for myself and my siblings specifically." Implications: Wants to hurt her mom, wants to be responsible, any attempt at getting her on-side will have to be framed as her being the motive force in the relationship.
-Plausibly higher calling: "Due to Circumstances (probably some combination of intensity, temporal scope, and expected scaling), Mom's atrocities considerably outweigh those of my soldiers." Implications: Wants the Shard dealt with by any means available. Will likely be willing to trade very large concessions for this. Not so stuck on personal vengeance, but really wants to be sure.
-Semi-innocence: "My soldiers are extremely well-disciplined and atrocities are severely punished; this will ultimately be a good thing for the nations I conquer, and also provides my best shot at very-well-deserved vengeance." Implications: Wants vengeance, power, and good things for her people, in more-or-less that order. Both emotional and pragmatic reasoning mean she'll prefer to keep her existing power base to, say, becoming Hunger's companion - but she might be talked around, if we offer it as a choice between her pride, and her vengeance.
I guess these are mostly tactics for diplomacy. There's probably some clever tactic to do with finding the Shard's dungeon, but I'm tired and want to get this out before Sunday.
You have convinced me away from his EFB, though.
[X] Diplomacy
[X] A Burning Spirit
Seriously though, here are some arguments for Diplomacy:
*I want to fight the Shard. She's a jerk.
*She and her minions are one of the few remaining Pick sources in reach, and we really kind of need those to unlock Pillars of Creation. (Or Ruling Ring, but that one is even more pick-dependent.)
*Augustine is dangerous in combat, but probably less adroit in the social sphere - she appears to be a Sorceress of the Arcanist, rather than of the Maiden. Also, I suspect a Gisena-tier manipulator would have been just fine conquering the kingdom as a pretty pink princess, rather than dressing up as an evil overlord.
Thank you for reminding me of the possibility. Let's see what our goals are here?
*Get lore and powers.
--Especially utility and short-term-prep - our build doesn't have a lot of infogathering tools, and the latter would really help optimize our action economy.
--Augustine has both, but the Shard likely has greater still.
*Leave the world as well-off as we can.
--Augustine seems like the sort of person who might be convinced to repent, and she's definitely more useful alive than dead. (Remember Sten? We can get picks from beating her, even if we spare her life.)
--Shard of the Arcanist is totally willing to murder innocents for the sake of power. She's also much, much older, and commensurately unlikely to change her principles. Keeping her knowledge would be useful, but the woman herself? Needs not to be a threat to anyone, which probably means dead. ("The only way to keep my family in line would be to bury them in a row", and all that.)
--Obviously the genocide has got to stop. The unification probably isn't a bad thing in principle, though. Can we manage Hungertopia #3, and if so how?
--The soldiers need to be dealt with in such a way that they don't turn to banditry, and ideally return to society as functional members. I think Augustine's plan for this, if she thought that far, was to get most of them meatgrindered in a mutual-kill with the Shard? Alternately, to keep conquering until there's enough land and riches to give them all cushy retirement plans.
All these in mind... what if Hunger pretends to be the Lord Protector? If I'm right about Augustine's powers being souped-up Graces, we can probably mimic a lot of them with Edeldross. That could do several things, including keep the transfer of power from being too messy, but it's only part of a plan.
Need to know more about Augustine's motives. If her deal is "willing to kill tens of hundreds of thousand-thousands of innocent neighbors in order to keep the Shard from torturekilling at her current rate"... well, honestly it might be a net positive in the long term, but surely there's a plan with fewer atrocities total?
Whereas if her deal is closer to "present a united front against the Shard before her ritual finishes and turns the Realms of Myth into a torture dimension, and imperialism was by far the most expedient method the local ontology would support", she would seem a lot more reasonable.
Her motives determine how we can approach her, what to offer, basically everything about diplomacy (and diplomacy-into-violence). So actually, I'll go more detailed:
*The basic tension of her character, as we know it, is between her rage at her parents' crimes, and her willingness to hurt uninvolved parties. How can these resolve?
-Sheer myopia: "I don't care how many innocents I hurt, I just want vengeance for myself and my siblings specifically." Implications: Wants to hurt her mom, wants to be responsible, any attempt at getting her on-side will have to be framed as her being the motive force in the relationship.
-Plausibly higher calling: "Due to Circumstances (probably some combination of intensity, temporal scope, and expected scaling), Mom's atrocities considerably outweigh those of my soldiers." Implications: Wants the Shard dealt with by any means available. Will likely be willing to trade very large concessions for this. Not so stuck on personal vengeance, but really wants to be sure.
-Semi-innocence: "My soldiers are extremely well-disciplined and atrocities are severely punished; this will ultimately be a good thing for the nations I conquer, and also provides my best shot at very-well-deserved vengeance." Implications: Wants vengeance, power, and good things for her people, in more-or-less that order. Both emotional and pragmatic reasoning mean she'll prefer to keep her existing power base to, say, becoming Hunger's companion - but she might be talked around, if we offer it as a choice between her pride, and her vengeance.
I guess these are mostly tactics for diplomacy. There's probably some clever tactic to do with finding the Shard's dungeon, but I'm tired and want to get this out before Sunday.
Then why not play in my subquest? That generates Arete!
Why not buy votes, then?
You have convinced me away from his EFB, though.
[X] Diplomacy
[X] A Burning Spirit
Hey, weren't we going to get the option to give her True Shadowcord and Threnody Sorceress? Did the Lion just interrupt that, somehow?
Last edited:
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
[X] Diplomacy
[X] A Burning Spirit
I've been convinced. Besides this is probably our last chance to get major power ups before HS so we should milk it for all its worth. If we can defeat the shard than we may actually out scale an armament.
[X] A Burning Spirit
I've been convinced. Besides this is probably our last chance to get major power ups before HS so we should milk it for all its worth. If we can defeat the shard than we may actually out scale an armament.
Last edited:
???
Aobaru's Vigorflame buffs continue to apply to Hunger. We'll have ISH 2.3 Quickening if we get this EFB, for example. The matter of how ISH 1.3 Strength would interact with strength-scaling Ruin is also of some interest.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Big derp there. What I meant is that it might buff Praxis as well. In my defense I just woke up.
Rihaku
The Internet
That an option will be at some point be unlocked of course does not make any guarantees about the exact timeframe! Modulate your spending with that in mind, but note that the Arete efficiency of different characters can vary. For example, taking Once and Future when Hunger has high Rank is considerably more efficient than most other EFBs.
Aobaru is a powerful buffer, but is that where his true strengths lie?
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Hey everybody, the answer here is almost certainly "No."
True Vigorflame can burn things with a conceptual or abstract component. In the right situation, Aobaru can deliver an attack against an opponent considerably higher on the ISH than we've operated so far. For example, what would happen if Aobaru were to go into the realm of forms and burn up the very notion of having a contract that binds Hunger and an Astral Entity?
I think that True Vigorflame has the potential to be a get-out-of-jail-free card if we use it right
(edit: admittedly we can probably only play this card once before Apocrypha-chan starts accounting for it)
Last edited:
Yeah, but Aobaru's buff is even better, +0.3ISH vs just x7 increase. Like, having our physical stats moving that much along the ISH is obviously good enough on its own, but then you consider synergy with Quickening(+1.3ISH total) or ADS(+0.3ISH Ruin) and it's very strong. Plus Aobaru can buff every party member with 0.3ISH and you get additional Hunger tier fight in party and you get powerful Curse mitigation.
This is basically Aobaru's version of RW, and just as RW it offers a lot to Hunger too.
It's very strong. Of course, the downside is that Aobaru is his own dude, so it's not our power, but it's still a lot of power.
That being said, as we've talked previously, right now we are not looking for power much, so I'd much rather save our Arete for Pillars/Fisher King/RR. Although, having this goal might cause greater Arete generation which is always a plus.
If Hunger manages an arete debt suicide, does Aobaru still get the 25 arete version?
I'll endeavor to return to the mines. I've been damn lazy even considering my schedule.
I do feel pretty motivated by the excellent fight scene. Hunger and Gisena's banter also continues to amuse, but I also yearn for more substantial discussion. I feel as if they havne't really talked since the Temple. (likely an exaggeration)
The color pallet makes me think of the comparisons between the Dawn and Fire Caste anima banners in the last of Rihaku's Exalted quests. The fury of the fire vs the all-piercing light of the sun.
Appropriate, given the immense gulf in power between the options. If only we could secure an Exaltation for a paltry 25 arete.
The companion power debate is getting interesting again, as Hunger's managed to catapult past what the others can expect to reach. I do feel that companions receive more efficient choices than Hunger, most of the time, but that's to compensate for their lack of Pick choices, and relative paucity of Arete. I'm pretty firmly in the crowd which favors boosting them further, as I love these quirky friends and want them to stick around in greater capacity.
But!
We didn't pick retinue. Some time in the future, it will stop being efficient to grant power to these allies. One can easily argue that that point has already come to pass. Sooner or later I'll have to accept that Aeira isn't on the active combat roster, and likewise with the others.
So why continue chasing buffs for them at all? Why not cut the cord and get it over with?It's not like they'll lose all attachment just because we didn't give them our meta points.
Versatility, short-term power, security and fun come to mind.
So: War because we only have room for one young lady with a ten digit kill count on this squad, and A Blazing Sun because I want SharpBright training sequences with Aobaru and Letrizia training his new Rank, so that I can finally start shipping them.
[X] War
[X] A Blazing Sun
Tough vote!
Expect me to change as the discussion evolves.
I'll endeavor to return to the mines. I've been damn lazy even considering my schedule.
I do feel pretty motivated by the excellent fight scene. Hunger and Gisena's banter also continues to amuse, but I also yearn for more substantial discussion. I feel as if they havne't really talked since the Temple. (likely an exaggeration)
The color pallet makes me think of the comparisons between the Dawn and Fire Caste anima banners in the last of Rihaku's Exalted quests. The fury of the fire vs the all-piercing light of the sun.
Appropriate, given the immense gulf in power between the options. If only we could secure an Exaltation for a paltry 25 arete.
The companion power debate is getting interesting again, as Hunger's managed to catapult past what the others can expect to reach. I do feel that companions receive more efficient choices than Hunger, most of the time, but that's to compensate for their lack of Pick choices, and relative paucity of Arete. I'm pretty firmly in the crowd which favors boosting them further, as I love these quirky friends and want them to stick around in greater capacity.
But!
We didn't pick retinue. Some time in the future, it will stop being efficient to grant power to these allies. One can easily argue that that point has already come to pass. Sooner or later I'll have to accept that Aeira isn't on the active combat roster, and likewise with the others.
So why continue chasing buffs for them at all? Why not cut the cord and get it over with?It's not like they'll lose all attachment just because we didn't give them our meta points.
Versatility, short-term power, security and fun come to mind.
So: War because we only have room for one young lady with a ten digit kill count on this squad, and A Blazing Sun because I want SharpBright training sequences with Aobaru and Letrizia training his new Rank, so that I can finally start shipping them.
[X] War
[X] A Blazing Sun
Tough vote!
Expect me to change as the discussion evolves.
Man, they grow up so fast. Daddy Accursed must be proud.
We might get Retinue in the future. There are opportunities to get more Curses(first Praxis proc would get us that if we managed to get 25ap option) and hopefully that Accursed Favor from Fisher King will work towards that.
[X] Draw Augustine to the Shard
[X] A Chosen Purpose [25 Arete]
Changing my Aobaru vote because on second thought this is absurd.
Look at this. Just look at this.
Hunger has a ring of power and the Forebear's blade and Progression, given to him by the Accursed himself. He has 7, count them 7, different EFB's, along with two trinity-type bonuses. He has gotten dozens of picks, some of which were crazy dangerous to get. Multiple defining advancements. Several other artifacts. Decades of practice being a hero. Weeks and weeks spent doing insane stunts to power up.
And then Aobaru comes along and in one single fight gets all that. And more, because he's better than Hunger now.
It's basically like our Arete is worth 7-14 times more than normal here, and that is so ridiculously powerful that I think it's worth it.
[X] A Chosen Purpose [25 Arete]
Changing my Aobaru vote because on second thought this is absurd.
Look at this. Just look at this.
Hunger has a ring of power and the Forebear's blade and Progression, given to him by the Accursed himself. He has 7, count them 7, different EFB's, along with two trinity-type bonuses. He has gotten dozens of picks, some of which were crazy dangerous to get. Multiple defining advancements. Several other artifacts. Decades of practice being a hero. Weeks and weeks spent doing insane stunts to power up.
And then Aobaru comes along and in one single fight gets all that. And more, because he's better than Hunger now.
It's basically like our Arete is worth 7-14 times more than normal here, and that is so ridiculously powerful that I think it's worth it.
- Location
- a place
I kind of wonder if extra curses might come with extra remittances.
Last edited:
