Imagine if there was some way to perfectly mitigate any hostile effect that would happen to us if we refuse. Damn, that would be OP as fuck. It could even apply to Curses and grant two stages of mitigation.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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The oath isn't a hostile effect, it's our own power. Expecting Silver to defend us from this is kind of naive.
Expecting a perfect defense to not apply to everything is strange.
Perfect defense against hostile effects. We're the ones enacting these bindings, it's a part of Supreme Enclosure. Maybe we'll get super-lucky and Rihaku will allow us to basically discard the cost of the spell, but I won't count on it.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
All Paths?
Astral Beast summons Hunger (2020 colorized). Totally not hostile effect that you willingly do.
When I am drunk as shit, and my body wants to puke I consider that a hostile effect, no matter that it is my own body.
Q.E.D
You can try and rules-lawyer things. I'll watch with great enthusiasm.
Maybe we could find whoever is the enemy of this summon and offer them T2 Hunger marker to destroy something of their choice? 🤔
Do you know how Cúchulainn died? He had a geas to never eat dog meat but also he had to eat food offered by a woman. Now, how can we weaponize that - we can just ask that Astral Beast to order us to do it and then proc Doom of the Tyrant, slaughter the shithead and be back for lunch to the kids.
@Zampano you are a
I'm pretty sure that any harm would count as a hostile effect, even if said effect originates from the self.
So you would argue that Perfect Defense would stop us from using magic casting resource such as mana or motes?
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Truly sad
[X] Glimpse
I'm all for not locking ourselves into this restrictive oath, even if it costs Arete. Augustine's personality seems fairly similar to Hunger, so maybe we can even recruit her as a fellow vengeful soul. She should be reasonably happy to get the power to truly fight her mother, right?
Ofcourse we have to convince her that we're not her mother's pawn and that we can scale powerful enough, but 1) pink hair makes everything cuter and 2) it sounds fairly fun.
[X] Glimpse
I'm all for not locking ourselves into this restrictive oath, even if it costs Arete. Augustine's personality seems fairly similar to Hunger, so maybe we can even recruit her as a fellow vengeful soul. She should be reasonably happy to get the power to truly fight her mother, right?
Ofcourse we have to convince her that we're not her mother's pawn and that we can scale powerful enough, but 1) pink hair makes everything cuter and 2) it sounds fairly fun.
Not Zampano but if we consider the existence of logic to be a hostile effect when it does not work in our favour then we might be able to use it to ignore the consequences of our actions.
I would assume that it would remove the costs of spells if choose to.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
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- Simping for DSB
# 510 Words
This is a sticky one. The Supreme Enclosure gives Hunger's own promise that he will answer if he is "called" to defend something for a day. However, the nature of that "call" is pretty ambiguous. The fact is that we do not currently have a way to reach the Astral Realm, and we certainly do not have a way to return from the Astral Realm. For our favor to be valuable at all, Hunger cannot be called to defend something that he cannot access.
That leaves two possibilities. The first, which I personally find more likely, is that the thing which Hunger must defend will be delivered to us. We'll be given an artifact, or a baby entity, or some other horrible thing that Hunger must defend from interference or heroism. This would add complications to whatever business we have going on at the time, but does not remove Hunger from the board for a full day.
The second possibility is the one that everybody else seems to assume is going to happen: the thing to be defended will be located in the Astral Realm and Hunger will disappear for 24 hours. But in my opinion this use of Hunger's favor is unlikely for two reasons. The first is that if there's something to be defended, putting it in the Human Sphere inside the influence of two Rings of Power, an Armament, and the Chosen One is possibly the safest place in the local multiverse. The second is that (absent knowledge of ADS) the Astral Denizen has no way of knowing that Hunger's abilities are equally powerful in the Astral Realm. A favor from a progression-type cursebearer is a powerful asset. It would be foolish to risk wasting that boon.
Suppose that Hunger absolutely is going to be teleported away from the party, and that the Nightmare Flight ability is not able to bring our companions along for the ride. In this case, Hunger's Silver of Evening really might be able to apply to the summons. The argument would be that Hunger's promise is being used in bad faith: Invoking a favor from an ally and leaving them stranded in a new universe with no way home absolutely might count as a hostile effect. This charge would hinge on whether the Nightmare Flight is able to return Hunger to the Human Sphere after his favor is repaid. If not, there's (maybe) some legalistic grounds in objecting to the call.
More likely, imo, is that we'd have a snap decision to make: which 4 companions would we drag with us for 24 hours? My guess would be that bringing Verschlengorge to the Astral Realm would be a mistake, so instead I'd expect a favor to summon Hunger, Aobaru (his squire), and Gisena (his administrative assistant). If the favor is invoked while we are still in the VR, Aeira can hide Versch. If the favor is invoked while we are in the Human Sphere, Letrizia and Versch will be busy anyway. Maybe Aeira will come along in that case.
This is a sticky one. The Supreme Enclosure gives Hunger's own promise that he will answer if he is "called" to defend something for a day. However, the nature of that "call" is pretty ambiguous. The fact is that we do not currently have a way to reach the Astral Realm, and we certainly do not have a way to return from the Astral Realm. For our favor to be valuable at all, Hunger cannot be called to defend something that he cannot access.
That leaves two possibilities. The first, which I personally find more likely, is that the thing which Hunger must defend will be delivered to us. We'll be given an artifact, or a baby entity, or some other horrible thing that Hunger must defend from interference or heroism. This would add complications to whatever business we have going on at the time, but does not remove Hunger from the board for a full day.
The second possibility is the one that everybody else seems to assume is going to happen: the thing to be defended will be located in the Astral Realm and Hunger will disappear for 24 hours. But in my opinion this use of Hunger's favor is unlikely for two reasons. The first is that if there's something to be defended, putting it in the Human Sphere inside the influence of two Rings of Power, an Armament, and the Chosen One is possibly the safest place in the local multiverse. The second is that (absent knowledge of ADS) the Astral Denizen has no way of knowing that Hunger's abilities are equally powerful in the Astral Realm. A favor from a progression-type cursebearer is a powerful asset. It would be foolish to risk wasting that boon.
Suppose that Hunger absolutely is going to be teleported away from the party, and that the Nightmare Flight ability is not able to bring our companions along for the ride. In this case, Hunger's Silver of Evening really might be able to apply to the summons. The argument would be that Hunger's promise is being used in bad faith: Invoking a favor from an ally and leaving them stranded in a new universe with no way home absolutely might count as a hostile effect. This charge would hinge on whether the Nightmare Flight is able to return Hunger to the Human Sphere after his favor is repaid. If not, there's (maybe) some legalistic grounds in objecting to the call.
More likely, imo, is that we'd have a snap decision to make: which 4 companions would we drag with us for 24 hours? My guess would be that bringing Verschlengorge to the Astral Realm would be a mistake, so instead I'd expect a favor to summon Hunger, Aobaru (his squire), and Gisena (his administrative assistant). If the favor is invoked while we are still in the VR, Aeira can hide Versch. If the favor is invoked while we are in the Human Sphere, Letrizia and Versch will be busy anyway. Maybe Aeira will come along in that case.
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Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
[X] Shelter
Why? Silver was never mention as being capable of making us ignore Praxis' exhaustion, which would be very useful in every instance where we spammed Thorn. Likewise, it's not capable of removing casting time of Signs, which would under your definition fall into category of self-inflicted harm/resources spent.
So why exactly would you believe that Silver could do something like that when there is no instance where it did or was capable of doing something more than reducing Curses and blocking hostile attack?
Astrals are capable of opening portals to their realm seemingly at will, given how consistently they were assaulting Verslengorge. That's assuming that our own spell doesn't just reverse summon us.
There's almost endless amount of scenarios that will be disastrous for us(i.e. we are defending the planet when the summon happens or we need to defend something we want destroyed) and Apo is there to ensure that they actually happen.