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Elysian Odyssey (EU4 Quest - Byzantium in the New World)

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In no particular order:

I say we release the traders internally. The court may not like the lack of control and we'll lose some ability to influence internal policy, but I see the increased trade, wealth, and entrepreneurism the act will free up to more than compensate.

As for the future plans, I'm partial to the trade emphasis as it gives us more logistical options but can be talked either way. Being the biggest stick on the block lets us dictate affairs while diplomacy will give us options for trade and integration as well as partners against future European imperialism.

Onto the regular affairs. I say we urbanize Creta Minor. Not only are they a valuable naval station, but we need to reward their tenacity and loyalty.

I say we expand the fields in Nea Konstantinopolis as that's the biggest development bump and reinforcing our agricultural base will always be a good choice.

The treasury options are as usual a bit more of a mess. We definitely need to replace the troops we just lost and I want to start looking at the workshops for industrialization purposes. Beyond that, we should probably start expanding/improving roads for trade and expansion purposes.
 
Well, having grabbed a new settlement made mostly of recently annexed barbaroi means we really need to grab missionaries in Sydes this turn and start in on assimilating them at least enough that our society doesn't tear itself apart.

As for the rest, picking up on road-building like the Romans we are is nice and neatly finishes off the rest of our available treasury. Development wise, pay a little attention to Creta Minor and keep saving for increased control of the treasury and grabbing more grain/flour is always nice.

That all adds up to a very rough +15 or so income, so leaving some growth to boost income up to the point we can work on larger projects means we can either add a great big pile of militia or continue expanding the Allagia. IMO the bits where the update talked about having a more rapid response are pretty clear about which one is more useful for events, so I'd say to grab more Allagia and get our standing army back up to where it was before or better.

I'm pretty ambivalent on trade regulations, but for overall focus I just think that aiming for military hegemony is the wrong trajectory to set - I'd be fine with either trade or diplo focuses.

[ ] Plan Stronger Than Before
-[ ] The Urbanisation of Creta Minor: 132 Administrative Points (1->3)
-[ ] Expand the Fields in Nea Konstantinopolis: 250 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[ ] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/18] x3
-[ ] Missionaries in Sydes (60 Silver)
-[ ] The Paths of Pythagora (35 Silver)
-[ ] The Paths of Sydes (35 Silver)
-[ ] The Roads of Ivos (85 Silver)

The amount of militia we can call upon is almost double than what we had last turn, 9k vs 5k. I don't think we need more raw numbers so much as we need to replace and expand our professional soldiery who can respond to stuff in a timely manner.
 
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me.me.here said:
The amount of militia we can call upon is almost double than what we had last turn, 9k vs 5k. I don't think we need more raw numbers so much as we need to replace and expand our professional soldiery who can respond to stuff in a timely manner.
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agreed though I think we should form 4 Allagia not 3. Each is 500 after all and we really should be matching the Dynatoi in terms of professional troops. 4,000 is close to their power level of 5,000 and would leave us with 7,000 militia to call up if we get desperate.
 
It seems all 3 of us who want to make a plan or have made a plan agree completely on all actions except how we want to build up the military.... should we maybe consolidate just to ensure our plans go forward? What do you think @me.me.here and @Japanime ?

[ ] Plan maximum military buildup
-[ ] The Urbanisation of Creta Minor: 132 Administrative Points (1->3)
-[ ] Expand the Fields in Nea Konstantinopolis: 250 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[ ] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/18] x4
-[ ] Missionaries in Sydes (60 Silver)
-[ ] The Paths of Pythagora (35 Silver)
-[ ] The Paths of Sydes (35 Silver)
-[ ] The Roads of Ivos (85 Silver)

I at the very minimum believe we should nix the militia completely. Are you ok with leaving it up to @Japanime on whether to build up with 3 or 4 Allagia @me.me.here ? At least if he is fine with putting the militia on the backburner anyway.
 
For people wanting to keep pumping out Allagia I will point out our current professional army is just slightly under 1% of our total population right now. It may not be fesable to increase that percentage much further. Militia have the advantage of that they are still productive during times of peace so expanding them may be best for now as we keep our current Allagia as a professional backbone.
 
Czes said:
Can you further elaborate this statement? Apart from the usual "Free Trade for the win!" argument... I would consider changing my initial vote/opinion in regards to the regulation of trade.
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Short answer: Double the usual "Free Trade for the win!" plus further benefits.

For any nation internal domestic trade is always the most important as it derives benefit from both ends of the trade. Secondly, as domestic is usually conducted over shorter distances (as is our case) the capital used in it receives its returns more frequently/growth compounds on shorter intervals/is able to employ more workers with that capital. To further elaborate on the effect of the previous is to say that money used in domestic trade will have an inherently higher velocity than money used in external trade.
 
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Donkey Hote said:
Short answer: Double the usual "Free Trade for the win!" plus further benefits.

For any nation internal domestic trade is always the most important as it derives benefit from both ends of the trade. Secondly, as domestic is usually conducted over shorter distances (as is our case) the capital used in it receives its returns more frequently/growth compounds on shorter intervals/is able to employ more workers with that capital. To further elaborate on the effect of the previous is to say that money used in domestic trade will have an inherently higher velocity than money used in external trade.
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i general i agree,i love free trade and capitalism

but we just gave the emperoi a bone with allowing them a place in the administration,so it worries me the idea of throwing 2 bones in a row and create a political precedent
 
Eldon said:
For people wanting to keep pumping out Allagia I will point out our current professional army is just slightly under 1% of our total population right now. It may not be fesable to increase that percentage much further. Militia have the advantage of that they are still productive during times of peace so expanding them may be best for now as we keep our current Allagia as a professional backbone.
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Actually we had more Allagia than we do now last turn dude. Plus we had less population then as well.

EDIT: WE just lost a 3rd of them though so we want to replenish atm and add in some extra troops too.
 
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san said:
It seems all 3 of us who want to make a plan or have made a plan agree completely on all actions except how we want to build up the military.... should we maybe consolidate just to ensure our plans go forward? What do you think @me.me.here and @Japanime ?

[ ] Plan maximum military buildup
-[ ] The Urbanisation of Creta Minor: 132 Administrative Points (1->3)
-[ ] Expand the Fields in Nea Konstantinopolis: 250 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[ ] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/18] x4
-[ ] Missionaries in Sydes (60 Silver)
-[ ] The Paths of Pythagora (35 Silver)
-[ ] The Paths of Sydes (35 Silver)
-[ ] The Roads of Ivos (85 Silver)

I at the very minimum believe we should nix the militia completely. Are you ok with leaving it up to @Japanime on whether to build up with 3 or 4 Allagia @me.me.here ? At least if he is fine with putting the militia on the backburner anyway.
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I mean, I would be fine any of the proposed plans winning so far, as they are rather similar at the end of the day. I only went smaller in terms of number of troops as I thought it was a balanced approach. The real issues that are at contention at the moment that haven't yet been discussed are which of the three directions do we wish to take.
 
For me maximizing our money intake is important given how many large treasury projects we have in the pipe, so doubling down on free trade seems the direction to go. I'm content with merely replacing our military losses as the threat board is relatively quiet at the moment. We need to angle at that library for technological advancement and start making calls on assimilating our newly conquered territories and picking out the next bit to conquer. I for one want to continue north and secure Manhattan.
 
san said:
agreed though I think we should form 4 Allagia not 3.
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I dunno. 4 Allagia costs 16 Silver a turn to maintain, and my best estimate for how much income we'll gain is ~15*. Expanding our military so much that our net income cancels out or goes down is really not the kind of thing I'm interested in. 3 is certain to get us a little more troops than we had before, while also being certain to let us grow our net income regardless of what we decide re; trade or focus.

*That estimate, broken down, is as follows

Roads in Ivos = 2.1 silver (based on 6 tax development and moving to the same 1.7 multiplier other cities with roads have)
Paths in Pythagora/Sydes = 1.2 silver each (comparing multipliers in Creta Minor and Pythagora, also it looks like that'd be the difference between Pythagora and Sydes that might have been an accident in accounting)
Urbanization in Creta Minor = 3.4 Silver (1->3 tax development just multiplies tax income there by 3)
Development in Nea Konstantinopolis = ~6-8 Silver (the irrigation channels were supposed to have done the equivalent of adding 5 production without increasing development cost and this action adds 5 production development so should be similar)
 
Japanime said:
I mean, I would be fine any of the proposed plans winning so far, as they are rather similar at the end of the day. I only went smaller in terms of number of troops as I thought it was a balanced approach. The real issues that are at contention at the moment that haven't yet been discussed are which of the three directions do we wish to take.
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true but thats separate from the plans. I guess we can keep all 3 then.
 
me.me.here said:
I dunno. 4 Allagia costs 16 Silver a turn to maintain, and my best estimate for how much income we'll gain is ~15*. Expanding our military so much that our net income cancels out or goes down is really not the kind of thing I'm interested in. 3 is certain to get us a little more troops than we had before, while also being certain to let us grow our net income regardless of what we decide re; trade or focus.
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mmm thats what they cost in total not what it will actually cost us compared to our current expenses. If I remember right the cost to maintain the militia they were is deducted from that. in other words each is only -3 income for a total of -12.

its part of why expanding the court didnt bankrupt us. Look at how much it was supposed to cost us this turn vs how much it is costing us.

It was supposed to cost us an extra -61 on top of the 15.36 from before but instead we are only at -56 this turn.
 
Sayle said:
About the only other thing of note is the new border with the Pequot tribe, who are somewhat wary of their new neighbour. Perhaps in response to this sudden shift in power nearby is their expulsion of the local missionaries who had been making efforts to convert the local population.
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Looks like this'll be our future target for expansion - which is somewhat fortunate, actually, as they're sitting on top of Manhatten and Long Island, areas we would've almost certainly wanted to incorporate soon-ish anyways.

I'm of the opinion a nation's power ultimately stems from their economic robustness - from there springs a state's capability to field armies and fund lavish diplomatic efforts as well as constructing legendary monuments, extensive infrastructure, and construct a modern navy. If we go down the trade rout, it'll inevitably feed into the other two options, more than wielding a powerful army or set of satrapies would affect our economy.
 
[X] Plan Consolidation
-[X] The Urbanisation of Creta Minor: 132 Administrative Points (1->3)
-[X] Expand the Fields in Nea Konstantinopolis: 250 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[X] Expand the Militia (10 Silver/-2 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/4]
-[X] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/18] x2
-[X] Missionaries in Sydes (60 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Pythagora (35 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Sydes (35 Silver)
-[X] The Roads of Ivos (85 Silver)
 
So, if we're all agreed on the infrastructure actions we want to take, why don't we declare that in a separate block and then talk about the military and other decisions we want?

I, for one, think that we should take the diplomatic path whilst we're re-establishing our military and building up a stable population foundation.

[X]Plan Infrastructure
-[X] The Urbanisation of Creta Minor: 132 Administrative Points (1->3)
-[X] Expand the Fields in Nea Konstantinopolis: 250 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[X] Missionaries in Sydes (60 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Pythagora (35 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Sydes (35 Silver)
-[X] The Roads of Ivos (85 Silver)
 
[X] Elysia will cultivate its diplomatic presence and influence in the area.
[X] Major movements of trade must be tightly regulated.

[X] Plan maximum military buildup and rebuilding
-[X] The Urbanisation of Creta Minor: 132 Administrative Points (1->3)
-[X] Expand the Fields in Nea Konstantinopolis: 250 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[X] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/18] x4
-[X] Missionaries in Sydes (60 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Pythagora (35 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Sydes (35 Silver)
-[X] The Roads of Ivos (85 Silver)
 
Feels like diplomatic is probably the best play to contest North America with potential colonizers?
 
HeWhoAdds said:
Feels like diplomatic is probably the best play to contest North America with potential colonizers?
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I agree with it, but to be fair it depends.
Military brings nice hard power to either possibly cower the natives into submission or force them to nite as confedarecies. Trade might help us to get all of our projects faster, which would lead to more money and more development. Diplomacy gets us soft power and more influence in the region.
 
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[X] Elysia will cultivate its diplomatic presence and influence in the area.
[X] Major movements of trade must be tightly regulated.

[X] Plan maximum military buildup and rebuilding
-[X] The Urbanisation of Creta Minor: 132 Administrative Points (1->3)
-[X] Expand the Fields in Nea Konstantinopolis: 250 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[X] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/18] x4
-[X] Missionaries in Sydes (60 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Pythagora (35 Silver)
-[X] The Paths of Sydes (35 Silver)
-[X] The Roads of Ivos (85 Silver)
 
Czes said:
I would agree to it, but to be fair it depends.
Military brings nice hard power to possibl cower the natives and greater conferacies into submission. Trade might help us to get all of our projects faster which would lead to more mones and more development. Diplomacy gets us soft power and more influence in the region.
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If diplomacy is leading us into getting a bunch of native satrapies then it's also a significant boost to population as we can benefit from native tax bases and manpower pools if they're allied/vassals.
 
[X] Elysia will cultivate its diplomatic presence and influence in the area.
[X] Major movements of trade must be tightly regulated.

[X] Plan Consolidation
 
[X] Elysia will cultivate its diplomatic presence and influence in the area.
[X] Allow these private trading fleets.

[X]Plan Infrastructure
 
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