Fanwork#3567 Words, Tripartite Evening Reaction/Tactics
The winner was [X] Tripartite Evening (Nightmare Flight, Bastion of Myth, Supreme Enclosure).
The combo option made it? I'm not sure if there will be any strong benefit to sticking to the theme, but I'm satisfied regardless. Nightmare Flight and Bastion were the ones I wanted, and since both Enclosure and Pennants were a bit unwieldy this is fine, too.
The three parts of Evening, then, are the states of being safe, being trapped, and running away? All of them are responses to danger, just like +Protection is. What is this danger that surrounds Evening, is it the day or the night? Since the Noonday signs are the ones of dominance and war, particularly against the darkness, it seems like it's the Evening that protects the Night against the Day. I suppose Enclosure is trapping others, though, so it's not the same thing? But it does bind the summons against harming the summoner, so it still fits.
The question is this- what is so cruel about the Sun?
And now I'm also looking suspiciously at the link between the Lord
Protector, his patron of smoke, and this sky nonsense.
Hunger goes now to meet with the ostensible leader of the Royalist faction, their last surviving heiress Adorie Mirellyian. He intends to negotiate for possession of both Artifacts capable of contributing substantially to the contest against the Lord Protector in exchange for his entry into such. Of course, there are many other matters both diplomatic and practical to sort out as well. Princess Adorie is renowned as a skillful & charming negotiator with a comprehensive grasp on matters personal and theoretical. Care should be taken lest Hunger commit himself & his Kingdom unduly to a cause, especially if he decides to integrate the Tower of Sky rather than destroying it for Decimator mitigation.
Despite paying 50 Arete for these artifacts out of character, Hunger still has neither in his hands. Which means he's going to walk up to Adorie (or Gisena is) and be like "yeah, give me everything." While trying to avoid committing everything in return, against a more talented diplomat. It's a big ask, so I guess whoever enters the negotiations will be benefitting from the Arete we already spent? It's the only way I can see that doesn't end in Total Mirellyian Domination. Work hard, friends, you'll need everything you have to make it out of here with a single scrap of non-Artifact wealth.
Hunger went all in on "eh, borders aren't real" for his ruling philosophy, so him shortchanging his Kingdom in favor of Adorie's isn't actually an issue for him. It's an interesting position to be in, that he still doesn't value the currency of this minor nation! We don't have to tell Adorie that, of course, because she already has too many advantages here.
I'm roughly in agreement with him about that, and also think that the "diplomatic and practical" issues unrelated to the LP fight/Artifact exchange are much lower in priority, so we have ground to give there. But only if we have to, so tactics about diplomacy would be welcome. First step- anticipating what these issues actually are. I've never been a princess before, but countries should more or less want the same things. A very incomplete list-
1. Legitimacy. Of particular importance to Adorie, who is a Tower Princess against a Tyrant with majority approval. She'll have freedom to build her popularity after we win, but public recognition from another polity would be a welcome boost at first. Not that the Myth nations currently being conquered should be undereager to support the non-expansionist. And the perception that she's selling out to a foreigner would be an issue as well. The "cultural artifact" of the tower that nobody cares about could suddenly turn into an issue. Bleh. It's lucky the average Nilfelian doesn't know of its importance, but we should trade a symbol for a symbol. Pity we don't have one, but maybe something can get slapped together.
And on that note, it's amazingly convenient for the purposes of negotiation that we're gonna give the Tears right back to Adorie. That's a massive shitstorm we won't have to deal with!
2. Trade. The Elixir
Sovereignty Kingdom has unique wizards, and healy water that makes wizards, and last-gen sci-fi tech. The comparative advantage when trading with the Land of Myth is in the last one by far. If the factories of Elixir can churn out quality of life improving gadgets in return for whatever Nilfel makes, good. They can keep their grubby, greedy hands off the Elixir magic, they already have enough.
-2.5 The logistics thereof. It's a looooong way between Nilfel and Elixir, and Versch is not a freighter. Practically, it'd have to be Nilfelians with their higher Rank traveling to Elixir rather than the other way around. Unfortunate for Hunger/Gisena's negotiations. Maybe Roilweft could help, but he's not high enough level. None of them are, really. Since Enclosure won, maybe a friendly Astral summon could help? Too blue-sky for negotiations. How do you build a hyperspace lane in the Voyaging Realm?
3. Military. For the purposes of Nilfel, Hunger and co. is the Elixir military, everyone else is a rounding error. Be nice if friendly Nilfel soldiers could help defend the Elixir, I guess. But I'm more interested in getting military instruction sent over, von Steuben style. As the Elixir King, that is, personally I couldn't care less. (Edit: That'd be the "improve Agent quality" listed under the Gisena option, I'd say. Geniuses think alike!)
I'm not opposed to having Hunger stick around and troubleshoot (and get picks!) for a few days after the LP is dead and the Affliction is satisfied, if Adorie is willing to give any ground for that. Basically what we figured we'd be doing for the LP if we went that route, with less moral concerns.
Not 4. Please unfuck our constitution, we rolled bad. /s
4. Holy shit please please please help us with Decimation Mitigation. Yes, even after I didn't destroy the Tower right in front of me. I admit I'm the worst, but please help. I (Projectile) am willing to sacrifice... basically everything else in return for meaningful assistance with not turbomurdering people. Our interests are aligned here as well, but leaning on that would come off as a threat, which I don't want.
So those are the big things I can think of off the top of my head, but Hunger's IC concerns are scattered through the update, so I'll come back.
5. The lifespans of the Temple Civ. I put those guys behind me, but if we can easily do them a solid, great. Though I'm not entirely sold that, between two groups with equal lifespan, the people who used to have access to life-extension magic should receive it over those that didn't. But "lifespan for everyone!" would be fantastic, if it's available for trade. And it might make up for any decimation, to assuage my guilt.
-5.5 But that does remind me of an issue that
is specific to the Temple. We know they can hunt to solve their food crisis, but if we can get food sent their way it'd free their guys up to address the multitude of other issues they're sure to have. Not that Nilfel is sure to be the best way to solve this, with the distance, but who knows.
6. Unfuck our constitution, but for real. Since "Improve government beyond adequate" was listed as a potential benefit, apparently this is on the table! I had been thinking that it was too much a show of weakness to say "I am not great at government" even for such a friendly diplomatic challenge, but then again Adorie is currently out of power and locked in a tower. So she's in no position to take advantage, lol.
[ ] Into the Breach - Some things are a King's responsibility alone. If he would shirk this negotiation, how well could those below him rely on his leadership when he administers not merely one Kingdom, but the entire Human Sphere? Undoubtedly the Princess is a formidable opponent in the social arena, but Hunger is no slouch himself. Note that due to the timing of this contest it will occur before Hunger has access to the Opalescent Tower or Tears of Winter EFBs, for obvious reasons. He is still guaranteed to acquire both Artifacts even if he 'loses' the negotiation. [+1 Arete for taking on the challenge]
*Unlike the other options, can generate picks and thus opens up an opportunity to purchase Once and Future, in theory.
*Adorie is a challenging opponent; though your interests are mutually aligned, Hunger would prefer maximum latitude of action and favorable trade terms for the Sovereignty while she would prefer to bind you strongly to her cause in exchange for her artifacts of legend.
Even though I'm voting for this, I wholly disagree with the initial sentiment- negotiations like this should have swarms of diplomats and bureaucracy nerds working with the King and looking over every angle. Or at least Gisena and Aeira, since we don't have swarms in easy reach. Hm, Aeira. I want her right next to Hunger or Gisena with spreadsheets, dispensing facts even though she doesn't have any negotiating power. It's a social weakness, I suppose, but her knowledge of what the Elixir has available should make the process much smoother. Especially because our interests are aligned, we can afford to show Adorie our back for the sake of advancing them.
Hunger isn't a slouch at social... hm. He's got huge Charisma, good appearance, and with HDS
and Bastion (wait, nevermind, that's part of Tower) Adorie's Rank advantage should be
negligible small. His Manipulation is garbage (y'know, on this level) except against Guile, so we shouldn't be too treacherous, but fortunately she can't be, either. Our Int and Wis are also eeehhhhh, I expect Adorie to be smarter than us. She's definitely a superior opponent, to the degree that we get an Arete for daring to oppose her. Good for picks, potentially, bad for Hunger's ability to do whatever he wants. Most of these problems are solved by ADS, which we get an Arete for! Cha, Manip, Int, Wis, Wits, buy Adorie-Defeating Stance today!
The picks will help us defeat the Lord Protector, and make us safer- I think this is the Not Dying option. XP is always good, and since the alternative is +Gisena and waiting I think it's worth going after even if we concede more to Adorie, since we're seriously desperate right about now.
There's also the Doom of the Tyrant. Since this is a negotiation, I think we're pretty safe? But what happened to "diplomacy is a laughable dream" or whatever? I must conclude that I have no idea how Tyrant works and leave this bit to everyone else to figure out. I think it's vanishingly unlikely Hunger will flip out, but if others disagree I'll switch.
[ ] Hide Behind Gisena - It's entirely the purpose of a Princess Regent to handle negotiations that are below the attention of a figurehead King! Hunger is merely the mouthpiece for Gisena's policy implementations so it's only fair that she handles this matter as well. Besides, it'll give her a chance to crush her rival Princess beneath her heel... or perhaps give her a much-needed comeuppance. Whoever wins, Hunger can't lose! [+Gisena]
*Higher chances of victory. Success here could bring great wealth and quality of life improvements to the Sovereignty, and potentially open up ways for Sten's civ to regain their extended lifespans. Though Hunger does not always act it, he is still responsible for the lives of all these people. Can improve Government quality beyond Adequate, improve the effectiveness and Elite-production rate of Throne Agents, and overall make life much better for Hunger's subordinate polities.
*Having Gisena do the negotiations means Hunger will be less stressed out and/or mentally compromised and is thus free to regale Aobaru & co with tales of his adventures
*Takes the outcome out of your hands; defeat is still possible and mid-battle power-ups are unlikely (?)
*Is it wise to yield this matter to an adjutant, no matter how trusted, when the nature of Hunger's progression requires conflict and adversity for him to grow?
The first sentence of this option is also garbage! This is definitely not unimportant- we're foisting it off on Gisena
because it matters! As he later acknowledges by calling himself just a mouthpiece. Bah, since we know Hunger likes to joke about being King, I won't take any of those puffed-up lines seriously.
Because Gisena blew herself up, we didn't get to see her put Larissa in her place, so this could be considered an opportunity to make up for that- but no, Adorie won't go down so easily. In fact, if it wasn't for the higher chance of victory being explicit, I'd worry that the Rank disparity would leave Gisena with worse chances than Hunger. Doesn't say much for our chances that she'll do better even with that handicap. But, of course, we don't have to win, so that's fine. I wouldn't go as far as to say she needs her ego punctured, the problem I've seen people express with Gisena is just that the banter is getting excessive screen time, I think. +Gisena is nice. I'd say we've been slacking on grinding relationships, but since we reached Nilfel we've grabbed +Letrizia and ++Aeria, and Aobaru bonding is almost locked in, so that's no longer true. So it's just nice.
Ah yes, Sten, Sten and the Temple civilization, and their lifespans, who we absolutely care about. With Hunger's new characterization, I guess we actually do. That'll take a bit of adjusting to. Added to point 5 of negotiation predictions. "Though Hunger does not always act it" cuts like a knife, Rihaku. How dare you make us face the consequences of our own actions. Everything here has been added to the list.
We can have storytime with old man Hunger- I'd like to trash talk this by saying there's not a big mechanical benefit, but that'd be dishonest. I'd absolutely loooove to read that. Hunger backstory combined with bonding with his new friends is the best 2-for-1 fluffiness deal I could ask for. So, to support Hunger doing it himself, I'll instead point out that "stress" is for people who didn't take the cool under pressure personality trait and then double down on it.
And again, we need picks. I hadn't considered that we could get them in the middle of negotiations, but that'd be amusing to see. That'd incentivize not solidly agreeing to anything too vital until we powered up... lol. That'd piss Adorie off, though, let's not play silly buggers here. The picks are for defeating the Protector or the Decimation or Aobaru's enemy, it's fine if Adorie wins here.
[ ] Cut Through - Just give Adorie what she wants - a binding commitment to liberate her nation and oppose the Lord Protector - in exchange for her Artifacts. Table the matter of trade negotiations until after victory has been achieved. While this will significantly reduce Hunger's potential scope of action in the future (as he will give his word), in some ways it can be considered only fair to match House Mirellyian's commitment with one of equal scope. They are giving you their ancestral fortress and crown jewels essentially for work you haven't yet done... [+Adorie]
*Saves time, but Hunger will have to give his word. He considers this an absolute commitment.
*Goodwill can lead to a more amenable ally than any amount of formal strictures, but some would say it's power built upon a foundation of sand. When you base your strength on the kindliness of allies rather than strictly articulated obligations, you are ultimately placing yourself at the mercy of their interpretation of your circumstances.
*The matter of trade, even if procrastinated upon, may still rear its head in the future...
And since it's fine to have her win, here's the option to just let her win. I appreciate that this is an option, and that Hunger is capable of seeing that. We even get a +Adorie for it! More valuable at this exact point in time than Gisena's, and you know what they say about first impressions. It's not the worst thing if the foundation isn't solid, since I already deprioritized this, but in this case relying on Adorie's kindliness isn't necessarily foolish. For one thing, she is reputedly kindly. For another, Hunger's "interpretation" of how the Elixir and the Temple are isn't as set in stone as one might expect. Particularly the Temple, he has a strong bias there. And Adorie might be more inclined to do more than the bare minimum we can squeeze out of her if we leave it to her interpretation.
I am (and the thread in general is, I think) mostly cool with dealing with the LP, especially after he sprung his trap. The only issue is that I'd like to deal with the Decimation first, and though that should be easy to negotiate (especially given it's her people who'd pay the price), this is the option that doesn't negotiate. But other than that, it's fine. Postponing the trade discussions is more than fine, since Hunger would be more suited to dealing with them after he powers up. Tower, Tears, OaF+Winter King or ADS, assorted nonsense... as usual, I like procrastination. In this case, though, Adorie benefits as well. She also gets the Tears bonus, and the situational bonus of not being a prisoner anymore is less tangible but no less important. So while Hunger would do better later, Gisena would just get steamrolled more if we delay. Last, trade negotiations are boring, which is a more pedestrian reason for procrastination!
There's the benefit (?) of not being completely shameless, here, since we passed over that Feat. After grabbing 50 Arete of artifacts from them, asking for more is pretty ballsy. On that note, we should totally reject the Vendor's "Prince's Ransom" if it isn't already included in Tower+Tears on principle, Adorie has more than paid for her rescue. Hunger's seriousness about his promises continues to be satisfying to read about.
Saving time is good for Mitigation, but since we're committing to prioritizing the LP and we can't negotiate for Adorie's help, I don't think this is the best option for that goal.
I'm amused by how this is the "Cut Through" option. It's definitely the simplest, so it fits, but most often we Cut Through by being violent and awesome, in contrast to, basically, rolling over. Secretest Forebear Lore: he was also an Arthur!?
What's Hunger's attitude towards Aobaru's mission?
Attitude? "Not this shit again," I'd say. At least no one is dead or maimed- even if you didn't see the alternatives, you felt the strength of the Exposition Cat. Though, with your bloodthirst, maybe the lack of epic fights is a downside. But no matter what, Hunger is going to help Aobaru with his Epic Quest to Repair the Amusement Park!
[ ] Impart, then Depart - The role of a mentor comes with occupational hazards because the story must remove the mentor's protective influence. But a teacher that simply transmits wisdom and is not present for the hazards of one's journey is at much less narrative risk for death. Hunger will train Aobaru intensely so that he may fight his own battles. The boy is welcome to accompany him until his first major threats are dealt with, but then their paths must split. ++Aobaru Power
*Hunger will keep Aobaru with him long enough to deal with the Chains of Fate-summoned enemy
*You'll eventually lose access to Aobaru's buff, though you may regain it after Aobaru finishes his mission
*Low, if any, risk from Fate intervening to kill Hunger
*Though you'd still have to worry about the Apocryphal Curse regardless
*At least you'd minimize Aobaru's exposure to it
*After he succeeds, Aobaru would be a powerful ally and potentially in control (?) of the Voyaging Realm or large segments thereof. Maybe he could turn off the mage extraction filter, or introduce some exceptions?
[s/]Absolutely not. I refuse to leave Aobaru alone when his death will provoke the Apocryphal Curse into sending an Onslaught at us, I don't think we can survive it. It's true, I suppose, that we won't be in the "mentor" position. But while it's a good thing to consider the narrative in the land of Myth and Rank and Apocrypha, this is favoring it above the more grounded concerns of leaving a weak spot undefended...[/s]
Wait, nope, I completely misinterpreted this. We do kill his assassin first. Buh. That's good, that's what we wanted to do. Whether to stick with Aobaru afterwards on not, I'd prefer to procrastinate on that decision until we know more. And with ++Power, this would be safer for us than Priority Two... presumably we'd also fight the Chains enemy, and he'd be better able to defend himself while we do.
This is the better option for survival, then, except that it commits to giving Aobaru the boot in a kind of callous and selfish way. That shouldn't be enough to turn me off of it (I don't even like him that much), but something about this rubs me wrong. I'll have to think on it.
[ ] Priority Two - Aobaru should be kept close to maintain his safety, but Hunger intends to return Letrizia to the Human Sphere ASAP, and it's almost certain that events in the Human Sphere will conspire to keep Hunger & Gisena there. Thus it is of utmost importance that some means of extracting magi from the Voyaging Realm be found... +Aobaru Power
*As he intends to defend Aobaru directly, Hunger will not spend as much time training him
*You'll retain access to Aobaru's buff for the foreseeable future
*Aobaru won't be able to complete his destiny without enormous degrees of power and skill anyway, something that's likely in the far future
*Not long ago he was still a child. He'll be happy to see the Human Sphere and the Empire from which his predecessors departed.
Everything about this seems reasonable, except that the eminently trustworthy Exposition Cat told us that Aobaru's mission should be Hunger's top priority. Potentially a concern, but Exposition Cat has their own agenda. If the Armor is anything to go by, service to the Foremost is ingrained all over the place, so I
think ignoring that bit of advice should be less than a disaster? Especially since every line in this seems reasonable. We'll be able to protect him, which is the most important thing for Hunger's own safety, and he's not ready to take on his destiny yet. Delaying and grinding should be fine? It's not even hypocritical, Hunger's been doing the same for his own mission until now! :s The weakness is that the grinding is less intense... but, hm, if Aobaru is sticking close, he'll be able to benefit from things like Undying Vanguard and Lunar Coronet. If we pick them, of course. And who knows what opportunities will come up.
My primary concern with this option would be that Aobaru would get dissatisfied, but with the last line I'm not worried about that. Risk of him buying into Imperial hype, with his might=right mindset, but eh. So it's good? My secondary concern is the dissatisfaction of the Voyaging Realm. Will its apocalyptic rage be even greater at the extraction of the chosen one, above and beyond a mere mage? We'll see. I think this is the kind of challenge we can deal with, especially with Arete. Whereas the Onslaught will just kill us, so I'm willing to take the risk.
The biggest upside is that we finally, after more than a hundred thousand words, start our actual job. And get Letrizia home, and maybe heal her dad, and deal with whatever plots are brewing, and not have the whole Human Realm get exploded before we even start conquering it. The thousand year time period we have is illusory, I bet, because it won't last that long without us. Joania wasn't a conquest mission, but it sure was buckling fast...
[ ] The Long Voyage - Letrizia doesn't even want to return to the Human Sphere, so you might as well see this through ASAP. It'll be much easier to conquer the Human Sphere with the systems of the Foremost at Aobaru's beck and call. Even limited access could yield overwhelming advantages; what if there's some way to control or disable enemy Armaments? +Aobaru Power, +Aobaru Progression
*Committing to Aobaru's mentorship means Hunger will have a chance to confront and overcome the mistakes of his past, and his own feelings of resentment against Fate. +Mental Stability
*Those who were meant to protect him, failed, their promises unkept, the apellation of Chosen more curse than succor. It will not be so for this lad; for it is not capricious Fate that watches over him, but the scion of the Forebear himself, and he will see his charge defended no matter what rains may come. +What Rains May Come Advancement.
*Should you really neglect the Human Sphere this greatly?
*Fifty years is a long time for the Apocryphal Curse to wrest one province or another from Hunger's control. Maybe it would be wiser to deal with the Human Sphere as soon as possible, who knows how many technical violations the Curse could potentially force upon him, mandating a reset of the timer and future complications?
The potential of using the Voyaging Realm to help conquer the Human Sphere falls flat for me, we'll surely be swole enough to not need the help by the time we're done completing every sidequest. The only reason I'd have considered this, before reading this blurb, is because Exposition Cat's wisdom suggested this option. And I've already written about that. Leaving the Human Sphere to implode (as I'm 99% sure it will) would be bad.
The last bullet point is assuming we'll already have conquered the Human Sphere at some point, I think? Indicating how long-term Aobaru's issue truly is. It's not that much of a downside if the Apocryphal Curse dings us down to 89% control once in a while. The timer might reset, but we're indentured for octillions of years, I could not give less of a shit how long we spend on each task. The suffering it causes while Hunger is away is another matter, of course. But so far in the future, who knows what we'll have available to deal with that? And we've already committed, sort of, to hands-off leadership. But still, I'd rather focus on the Human Sphere over the Voyaging Realm, once we actually get there. To do otherwise would be asking for trouble- not that there's any choice that doesn't at this point.
The bribes to take this action are strong. +Progression to Aobaru (!), +Mental Stability, and Rains? Rains especially makes me salivate, 3-pick Advancements don't grow on trees, and Effectiveness boosts are wonderful at this point given the diminishing (multiplicative) returns on +'s. I waaaaant it. But I have to keep in mind that these rewards are small in comparison to decades of work, which we'd be committing to. +Stability can be found with a few days of slacking, in particular. And +Progression is the mechanical representation of that effort, rather than being on top of it. There's a strong argument that getting Rains in the present, when we're seriously threatened by the LP, is worth mortgaging the future for. But I don't wanna, so there.
[ ] Procrastination - Just don't think about it right now. You've got more important matters to consider. [+3 Arete]
*It's free Arete, what could possibly be wrong with that?
*Even if it's a trap, you could use the power from that Arete to overcome it!
*Somewhat reckless, but eh
This is bait. I mean, getting What Rains May Come for freeee* is also bait, but the hook there is obvious, since we're making an enormous commitment and leaving our actual task undone and vulnerable to curse nonsense, but this is master bait. Especially because, like, it should be okay to procrastinate a little bit, here? Just give me a single week, okay, so we can deal with the mess we're in right now. The Voyaging Realm isn't an immediate concern unless it makes itself one, our itinerary should be the same in the short-term no matter what we decide to do about it. Defend and train Aobaru while tackling the Protector and Decimation. Nothing 3-Arete worthy.
But since this is too good, I won't vote for it. I guess Aobaru will be dissatisfied and scared because Hunger doesn't appear to be taking his problems seriously? Maybe bailing because of that? That's the most reasonable negative consequence I can imagine. Or maybe Apo-chan doesn't like Hunger's dithering, and milli-onslaughts us as a warning? I'd like to not have to deal with either scenario, so paranoia wins the day, as much as it pains me to leave Arete on the table.
