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From the Hidden City (Warhammer Lizardmen Temple-City Quest)

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Damn it. Do I really have to stay up until 3 in the morning when the vote opens if I want my plan to have any kind of reasonable chance?

[X] Fly like a butterfly V2
Martial: 10 dice
-[X] Egg Hunt: DC: 20. Successes Needed: 1. Limit: 3. 1 dice
-[X] Into the Soft Bits: DC: 40. Successes Needed: 4. Limit: 6. 5 Dice + Ittetuhlot (Chief) + Loqtli
-[X] Spelunking: DC: 0. Successes Needed: 3. 2 dice + Khaxilitli
-[X] Diving In: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 1. 0 dice + Huatza-Botl
-[X] Tracking: DC: 25. Successes Needed: 2. Limit: 4. 2 dice
Stewardship: 3 dice
-[X] Widespread Roosts: DC: 0. Successes Needed: 12. 0 dice + Poh'paloq
-[X] Gate Repairs: Eastern Gate - Successes Needed: 3 DC: 0. 2 dice + Tzakani
-[X] Fleet Expansion: DC: 0. Successes Needed: 2. 0 dice + Xehtzhail
-[X] Wall Repairs: DC: 10. Successes Needed: 4. 0 dice + Gif'a'Gahb
-[X] Tower Repairs: DC: 15. Successes Needed: 4. 0 dice + Xilotl
-[X] Clearing Rubble: - Temple of Xokha: 1 dice + Awanabil'tat
-[X] Raising a Clutch: DC: 0. Successes Needed: 2. 0 dice + Tehe'Tenq
Diplomacy: 1 dice
-[X] Getting to Know your Attendants: 1 personal dice
-[X] Furthering a Relationship: 0 dice + Zille'mi
--[X] Goal: Establish a deal whereby we trade metal and minor magic items in exchange for knowledge of local beastmen and orc movements.
-[X] Reaching Out to More: DC: 0. Successes Needed: 1. Limit: 4. 1 dice
Intrigue: 1 dice
-[X] Spying on Humans: DC: 0. Successes Needed: 1. 1 dice + Hua'Ximni
Learning:
-[X] Study [Artifact]: Choose one to Study:
--[X] Mirror-Shield of Quetzl. DC: 0. 2 5th gen Slann dice
--[X] Disc of Yuxa. DC: 50. Successes Needed: 1. 2 5th gen Slann dice
-[X] Exorcism: DC: 40. Successes Needed: 2. 2 5th gen Slann dice
-[X] (Mal)Functional: DC: 50. Successes Needed: 10. 1 5th gen Slann dice
Personal:
-[X] Lend your Insight: Getting to know your Attendants
-[X] Personal Project: Develop a fast acting poison derived from relevant flora/fauna designed to cripple an orcs mental faculties (for Munta da Hunta)
 
OK. This plan begins work on both Alignment to the Sea for our harbor-temple and Setting to Rights the Guardian Statues of the Ancient Gods that serve as our coast-defense artillery. My impression is that other plans don't do that, so with this plan having three actions related to geomantic mojo, I'm calling it "Double the Geomancy."

It also finishes work on the Temple of Xokha, hopefully unlocking another bonus, hopefully finishes the tower and wall repairs, puts a modest effort into animal husbandry, almost certainly unlocks completing the last pair of caved-in spawning pools, and sends out a recon mission to figure out what is up with those beastmen.

Diploskink is sent out to make broader contact with more than just the one tribe of humans, while our overall focus is on warning the humans to stay out of the way of orcs, and offering them our protection, since we have reason to think that the Prophecy of the Grass may be about humans turning to Chaos to protect themselves against orcs.

I had as a write-in for the chameleon skinks to just keep us posted. With the poison not ready for prime time this turn unless Lord Wik rolls well, and with there still being five contenders for power among the orcs, it seems fairly likely that they're not going to be coming after us next turn. Leaving them alone while we patch up defenses and complete some projects so that we're better equipped to meet them with a strong army may well be worth it.

[X] Plan Double The Geomancy

[] Widespread Roosts (DC 0, 12 Successes Needed, Limit 6) (2 dice + Poh'paloq)
[] Fleet Expansion (DC 0, 2 Successes Needed, Limit 6) (0 dice + Xehtzaihl)
[] Clearing Rubble- Temple of Xokha (DC 0, 3 Successes Needed, Limit 6) (1 die + Awanabil'tat)
[] Alignment to the Sea (DC: 20. Successes Needed: 3. Limit: 6) (0 dice + Gif'a-gahb)

[] Tower Repairs (DC 15, 4 Successes Needed, Limit 8) (2 dice + Xilotl)
[] Wall Repairs (DC 10, 4 Successes Needed, Limit 8) (3 dice + Tzakani)

[] Beast Pen Repairs (DC 0, 2 Successes Needed, Limit 3) (0 dice + Tehe'Tenq)
[] Egg Hunt (DC 20, 1 Success Needed, Limit 3) (1 die)
[] Raising a Clutch (DC 0, 2 Successes Needed, Limit 8) (1 die + Ittetuhlot)

[] Spelunking (DC 0, 3 Successes Needed, Limit ?) (0 dice + Khaxilitli)
[] Diving In (DC 30, 1 Success Needed, Limit 4) (0 dice + Huatza'botl)
[] Tracking (DC: 25. Successes Needed: 2. Limit: 4. ) (3 dice + Loqtli)

[] Furthering a Relationship: (1 die)
-[] Warn the humans that in this generation or perhaps the next, orcs will likely come out of the south. They are very fierce and very numerous. Humans would be wise to either escape to more distant lands when this happens, or to seek shelter with the lizardmen in Zlatlan, which is that way.
[] Reaching Out to More (0 dice + Zille'mi = 2 dice)
-[] Spread a similar warning among these humans, once contact is established.
[] Write-In Intrigue: Continue Monitoring The Orcs (1 die + Hua'ximni = 1 die)

[] Exorcism: (DC: 40. Successes Needed: 2) 3 fifth-generation slann dice.
[] Study Disc of Yuxa: (DC: 50. Successes Needed: 1) 2 fifth-generation slann die.
[] Study Leviathan-Bone Harpoon (DC: 20. Successes Needed: 2) 1 fourth-generation slann die.
[] (Mal)Functional: (DC: 50. Successes Needed: 10) 2 fifth-generation slann dice

Personal Dice:
[] Getting to Know your Attendants: 1 personal die
[] Write-In Personal Project: Create a highly lethal anti-orc poison, suitable for use against warbosses: 1 personal die
 
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[X] Plan Double The Geomancy

why not put Giff a ghab on Setting rights instead of the 4th gen?
 
@Simon_Jester for the two geo projects you are starting them but finishing neither, it would make more sense to finish one so we get the benefits this turn and finish the next the following turn, more so since we can use the Slann sub skink, gab, to do so.
 
Once more you swoop in just before me, @ Simon_Jester. :p



Also, I take it you don't want to start on a forward base?

Important note, everyone: In every piece of warhammer art I've found of them, Wyverns have two giant horns sticking out the sides of their heads. Plus, what does a flier need to worry about a flood?
 
Void Stalker said:
@Simon_Jester for the two geo projects you are starting them but finishing neither, it would make more sense to finish one so we get the benefits this turn and finish the next the following turn, more so since we can use the Slann sub skink, gab, to do so.
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I don't agree. Firstly, it's not entirely clear yet how Gif'a-gahb affects Stewardship actions that require a slann die- does he contribute two dice or one? I'd like to find out on the temple project. Secondly, because finishing either project would involve investing lizardpower dice that I think are more usefully spent elsewhere this turn. Thirdly, because I don't think either project is going to pay off very much in the short run. Repairing the statues won't matter until and unless a fleet invades the Bay of Stars. The temple alignment might matter if the geomantic benefits are significant enough, but we don't know what they'll be.

BelligerentGnu said:
Also, I take it you don't want to start on a forward base?
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No, because from the sound of it, constructing a forward base greatly increases the likelihood that the orcs will realize we're present in large numbers and decide to 'ave a go at da scaly boyz. Right now they're fighting among themselves and seem only vaguely aware of our existence; if they see us as a major military threat they're apt to WAAAGH! and we're not prepared for that given the parlous state of the city defenses.

Important note, everyone: In every piece of warhammer art I've found of them, Wyverns have two giant horns sticking out the sides of their heads. Plus, what does a flier need to worry about a flood?
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A very good point. I think I'll make that wyvern-rider my main assassination target next turn when I'm ready to go forward with that.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I don't agree. Firstly, it's not entirely clear yet how Gif'a-gahb affects Stewardship actions that require a slann die- does he contribute two dice or one? I'd like to find out on the temple project. Secondly, because finishing either project would involve investing lizardpower dice that I think are more usefully spent elsewhere this turn. Thirdly, because I don't think either project is going to pay off very much in the short run. Repairing the statues won't matter until and unless a fleet invades the Bay of Stars. The temple alignment might matter if the geomantic benefits are significant enough, but we don't know what they'll be.
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2 dice with one of those dice counting as a Slann dice. This has been asked before. And you are investing lizardpower dice, you are investing 2 dice on setting to rights. Move one of those to the align and you have one free dice and one slann dice that can go elsewhere and Gif can do the setting to rights next turn. As it is there is 0 benefit to starting the projects this turn and not finishing them when we can finish one and use our limited slann dice on actually clearing out our learning backlog.

edit- you are also not finishing spelunking, move 1 dice from setting to rights there, grab 1 from tracking and that action finishes so we can fix the spawning pools next turn, that still moves 1 dice from setting to rights to alignment to finish alignment and the gif can do setting to rights next turn with 2 dice added to finish that.

edit 2- back to Gif, as has been explained before bonuses only override if they are marked with a *, none of Gif's are marked with a * so they do not override each other.
 
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Hmm. Looking at the details of your plan now, @Simon_Jester . I think I'd really rather not bother with Setting to Rights this turn, and instead put the fourth generation slann on the Exorcism, and move one of those fifth gen slann to assist on Disc of Yuxa. I'd really like to see that succeed. Actually, if you move one more slann die from (Mal)Functional to Disc of Yuxa, for three die total, that's an 87.5% chance to succeed on it. I'd put the normal dice on Widespread Roosts or Spelunking. That would be the way I'd go.

That said, it looks pretty solid.
 
Rovos said:
why not put Giff a ghab on Setting rights instead of the 4th gen?
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Because Gif'a-gahb is busy working on Alignment to the Sea.

Void Stalker said:
2 dice with one of those dice counting as a Slann dice. This has been asked before.
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Hm. Interesting. I'm going to be perfectly honest with you, I forgot the answer.

[On the other hand, Gif'a-gahb doesn't have a floor on their rolls. A fourth generation slann set on either the harbor temple action or the coast defense statuary action will assuredly score us a success on that particular die roll. Gif'a-gahb has no such assurance, but that's just a general obsesrvation about the mechanics.]

And you are investing lizardpower dice, you are investing 2 dice on setting to rights. Move one of those to the align and you have one free dice and one slann dice that can go elsewhere and Gif can do the setting to rights next turn. As it is there is 0 benefit to starting the projects this turn and not finishing them when we can finish one and use our limited slann dice on actually clearing out our learning backlog.
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If Gif'a-gahb works the way you say, then we MAY be able to finish the harbor temple with only one lizardpower die... In which case I can see the argument.

Instead of 2 lizard dice + 1 slann on the statues and just Gif'a-gahb on the harbor temple, we could indeed shuffle things around tolerably well.

Militating against that is that I really do want to get the statues set up sooner rather than later, so putting serious effort into them seems important to me. Thinking about it, though.

edit- you are also not finishing spelunking, move 1 dice from setting to rights there, grab 1 from tracking and that action finishes so we can fix the spawning pools next turn,
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I'm pretty sure the spawning pools problem is locked by Diving In (which I have Huatza-Botl finishing), not by the general Spelunking action. Spelunking is about exploring the caves in general; Diving In is specifically about investigating the aquifers the spawning pools caved into.

The reason I'm not finishing Spelunking is that I don't consider it to be an urgent action, and don't think anything bad will happen if we gradually chip away at it over a period of several decades. I do think something bad may happen if we neglect, say, Tracking (where I want a margin of error and having more dice than are strictly required compensates).

Remember that while most construction actions have a DC of 0 and it's just a matter of investing dice, an action like tracking beastmen (DC 25) means you need a margin for error if you want to succeed reliably. Plus, over-successes will tend to yield good results.

So no, I'm not taking dice off Tracking for anything that isn't of critical immediate importance for the security of the city, and no, I don't think Spelunking is important enough that we 'need' to finish it this turn.

I am, however, going to think carefully about those other actions. One interesting point is that Awanabil'tat can probably finish off the harbor temple next turn very effectively if a slann does the initial work, thus allowing us to entirely complete the harbor temple action without ever spending any normal lizardpower dice on it.

BelligerentGnu said:
Hmm. Looking at the details of your plan now, @Simon_Jester . I think I'd really rather not bother with Setting to Rights this turn, and instead put the fourth generation slann on the Exorcism, and move one of those fifth gen slann to assist on Disc of Yuxa. I'd really like to see that succeed.
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Since both those actions have a DC higher than 20, slann are literally interchangeable on either action as far as I know. The ONLY time it matters which generation of slann you put on an action is when the DC is between 11 and 30. Which describes both the harbor temple and coast defense statue projects, but not the Disc of Yuxa or the armor exorcism projects.

So no, I won't be shuffling slann around between multiple projects. Also, I would very much like to use the fourth generation slann die on one of our construction projects this turn, simply because they are an assured success on those projects. They are not an assured success on the slannpower Learning projects we're working on this turn, by contrast.

The thing that makes fourth and third generation slann dice special is their ability to auto-succeed on DC 20 and DC 30 projects. That makes assigning them to such projects a high priority, because they are assured to succeed, while fifth-generation slann dice and lizardpower dice assigned to such projects sometimes fail.

Personally, I'm content to just put one slann at a time on the Disc of Yuxa until they get lucky, because I suspect its applications won't help us with our immediate orc problem so much as they'll help us with other, weirder and more esoteric things. The artifact armor is clearly a weapon, so we want to get it ready for use as soon as possible. The Disc of Yuxa is more likely to be a utility item that magically enhances something internal to the city. It may even require a construction project to integrate it into our facilities.

Actually, if you move one more slann die from (Mal)Functional to Disc of Yuxa, for three die total, that's an 87.5% chance to succeed on it.
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That I might consider doing.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Since both those actions have a DC higher than 20, slann are literally interchangeable on either action as far as I know. The ONLY time it matters which generation of slann you put on an action is when the DC is between 11 and 30. Which describes both the harbor temple and coast defense statue projects, but not the Disc of Yuxa or the armor exorcism projects.
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Right, brain fart. For some reason I was thinking of fourth gen as a minimum 40, not 20. My bad.

That said, I will stand by my belief that Setting to Rights isn't useful right now. Given an auto-success on 20s, I'd rather put them on....hmm, either A Bigger Boat or Black Eggs.
 
Hm. OK.

I'm thinking of moving one slann die from (Mal)Functional to the Disc of Yuxa examination, bumping the odds of success on this turn from 50% to 75%.

I'm thinking of cancelling the Setting to Rights action to repair the coast defense statues, reallocating the relevant lizardpower dice, and bringing the fourth generation slann home... but NOT to work on the temple. The temple action is unambiguously perfect for Gif'a-gahb because it involves a small number of dice. There's a 64% chance that Gif'a-gahb singlehandedly clears 2/3 of the actions so that we can easily finish it next turn, and even if he fails once but not twice (32% chance), Awanabil'tat can finish the job next turn with no lizardpower dice required.

No, I want that fourth-generation slann working on the Leviathan-Bone harpoon. Because we have a rare opportunity here, in that we're not using it on a sea voyage, and in that fourth-generation slann are ideally suited to clear the DC 20 check to investigate it. Yes, the action won't finish this turn. That's actually fine! Realistically even when we assign the minimum number of required dice, a lot of our actions don't complete in one turn because something fails. Which is okay! We can keep chipping away at projects over an extended period.

BelligerentGnu said:
Right, brain fart. For some reason I was thinking of fourth gen as a minimum 40, not 20. My bad.

That said, I will stand by my belief that Setting to Rights isn't useful right now. Given an auto-success on 20s, I'd rather put them on....hmm, either A Bigger Boat or Black Eggs.
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I'm thinking of the harpoon, mainly because the harpoon is physically out of the city on many turns. It's more time-limited. Building cruisers is nice but we have no immediate obvious use for them, and the black eggs will keep for centuries. We only get to scan the harpoon when it happens to be in town.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'm thinking of the harpoon, mainly because the harpoon is physically out of the city on many turns. It's more time-limited. Building cruisers is nice but we have no immediate obvious use for them, and the black eggs will keep for centuries. We only get to scan the harpoon when it happens to be in town.
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Only issue there is I think we can only use the Artifact-O-Meter once per turn.

reads

Oh, nope, I'm wrong, it's only enhancing that drains it. In that case, I am 100% on side examining the harpoon too. Ahoy!
 
OK, so I took the coast defense statue action offline in "Plan Double the Geomancy."

I put the fourth-generation slann on studying the harpoon, and the two lizardpower dice on Widespread Roosts (which will take pretty much the whole century to clear if we don't commit some labor to it, just from letting our hero tick over).

I moved one slann die from (Mal)Functioning over to the study of the Disc of Yuxa.

@EVA-Saiyajin , I am a bit concerned about your plan. "Plan Cleaning House" has at least one action (aside from major military campaigns) where two hero units are assigned, which is not normally legal. Some hero units appear to be missing (Gif'a-gahb comes to mind). And in general it's kind of difficult to keep track of the accounting because of all those extra paragraphs of blurbs you copied over from the turn update.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
@EVA-Saiyajin , I am a bit concerned about your plan. "Plan Cleaning House" has at least one action (aside from major military campaigns) where two hero units are assigned, which is not normally legal. Some hero units appear to be missing (Gif'a-gahb comes to mind).
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Thank you. I switched a dice on "That Looks Good" with Ittetuhlot and got Gif'a-gahb started on Setting to Rights, along with removing the fluff.
 
[nods]

My other big concerns (main points of difference between our plans) are:

1) "Cleaning House" doesn't finish clearing the Temple of Xokha inside the city. Since Xokha is the Old One associated with stone, duty, and strength, I strongly suspect we get a Stewardship-related bonus out of that, much as the Temple of Chotec gave us d5 less lethargy and thus more actions per decade/century.

2) "Cleaning House" makes no effort to spread our outreach to other tribes of humans. This is problematic because the humans are not a unified society; they are hunter-gatherers who presumably travel in bands or loosely affiliated clan/tribal groupings. If we want influence over what humans as a whole do, we will need to work on Reaching Out to More.
 
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