- Location
- Italy
Information notwithstanding, House Alynne's forces still count as the more valuable strategic asset and they allow Hunger to focus his efforts on attaining the Ring rather than on what happens after.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
I was worried coming in that Foment Rebellion would read more like punishment for not picking Cut, but I'm quite pleasantly surprised. Who Walked Away and Larissa of House Alynne are both excellent choices with a high chance of reducing civilian casualties while still helping in battle.
The division seems to be how we want our allies to support us. We can have them distract our foes, empower us, or seriously fight. I think most of us are avoiding the Silver Legion on the grounds of pointless loss of life feeling bad. For the latter two, it seems to be a question of approach.
Who Walked Away offers two picks, roughly equating to:
-Heartpiercer, the option that lends incentive to Aristeia buffing us and using our allies to manipulate Immortals into one-on-one engagements.
-Iron Maelstrom, the option for leading from the front. Greater numbers plus Hero-Defeating Stance means we can probably take the Immortals as a group.
-Fierce Quickening x2, the option whose build synergy is greatest. Stacks high speed with room for Magic-Defeating Stance, and next 2-pick's slated for Ferocity Incarnate.
Larissa of House Alynne offers only one pick:
-Dominion: War, a risky option that wants to stack with Hero-Defeating Stance. Allies should stay out of the way when fighting Immortals, focusing on saving civilians.
-Fierce Quickening, a dime bonus to speed. Take Weapon-Defeating Stance for stats and slay Immortals with surprise attacks when they attempt to engage your forces.
-Exalted Spirit, a costly investment in a superior Soul Evoker army. Wants World-Defeating Stance for Null-Immunity, but might have to make do without it.
-Opalescence, objectively the greediest. Provides little present benefit, requiring an expensive Stance to cover for it. Casualties will rise and odds are we'll be among them.
I'm sure you see now what I'm voting for.
The division seems to be how we want our allies to support us. We can have them distract our foes, empower us, or seriously fight. I think most of us are avoiding the Silver Legion on the grounds of pointless loss of life feeling bad. For the latter two, it seems to be a question of approach.
Who Walked Away offers two picks, roughly equating to:
-Heartpiercer, the option that lends incentive to Aristeia buffing us and using our allies to manipulate Immortals into one-on-one engagements.
-Iron Maelstrom, the option for leading from the front. Greater numbers plus Hero-Defeating Stance means we can probably take the Immortals as a group.
-Fierce Quickening x2, the option whose build synergy is greatest. Stacks high speed with room for Magic-Defeating Stance, and next 2-pick's slated for Ferocity Incarnate.
Larissa of House Alynne offers only one pick:
-Dominion: War, a risky option that wants to stack with Hero-Defeating Stance. Allies should stay out of the way when fighting Immortals, focusing on saving civilians.
-Fierce Quickening, a dime bonus to speed. Take Weapon-Defeating Stance for stats and slay Immortals with surprise attacks when they attempt to engage your forces.
-Exalted Spirit, a costly investment in a superior Soul Evoker army. Wants World-Defeating Stance for Null-Immunity, but might have to make do without it.
-Opalescence, objectively the greediest. Provides little present benefit, requiring an expensive Stance to cover for it. Casualties will rise and odds are we'll be among them.
I'm sure you see now what I'm voting for.
- Location
- a place
Since she can extend her shadow cloaks, I think the best place for her is right next to Hunger and Gisena. Not only does it maximize her combat power thanks to buffing, but a ambush from Hunger is likely to be a decisive strike against most opponents we face, those chances only going up the faster we are. We can rely on Gisena to help protect her from mahgic attacks and the Edeldross to protect from nullity, while are agility does with the main attacks.
Given our defensive abilities, i'd like to atleast keep her close enough that we can react and come to her in case they decide to send a overwhelming AOE or something else where stealth wouldn't help as much against her to keep her safe given her high stategic value.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I want to see us interact with the civilization afterwards though. Give Hunger another chance at reforming society, don't preserve the nobles again and have any chance of reforms go out the window like when he defeated the Tyrant.
Rebuilding the ring civilization afterwards could let it form the seed of the empire we'll have to create to hold the Human Sphere and fulfill our objective.
- Location
- Italy
I mean, we still can? it's not like we're committing to leaving immediately after by voting for Larissa, and it's Hunger choice to Ennoble who he wants and how he wants to.
- Location
- Philippines
Consequently, choosing Fairbright doesn't provide any notable chances that the civilization will be able to survive post-temple. Choosing Larissa at least allows for the noted survival of the common man, so that we'll actually be able to interact with them. Given the shown favorability Larissa would have for Hunger too, i doubt it'd take too much effort on Hunger's part to convince her to provide some assistance in raising up the civ in his stead.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Fairbright doesn't seem the sort to abandon people who need her help. She might decide to look after the remnant of the civilization on her own initiative after we take the Ring.
Edit: That + mental stability is what convinced me to what for this option though. We have had only one option before this with that. Let this be a story about actual heroes saving the Ring and then taking care of the people in the aftermath.
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- Location
- Philippines
True enough. With her heroism, that's the path she's most likely to take. But the issue is her available resources. She could lead them out, probably fight battles for them until they can find a good settlement but little else beyond that from my conjectures. Larissa would have sufficient raw materials to provide them a breadth of options that doesn't necessitate the safety net of sword to face tactics. Not to mention that Larissa has more manpower to spare in protecting the civilians.
Both options would, most likely, lead to some protection for the common man. Larissa just has more available resources to ease the transition to civilization outside the temple.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Except Larissa and most her minions will most likely lose there power after the Ring is gone while the Fairbright Bloodline seem to have great power separate from the Ring.
And, she is described as an living legend. That means she is far more competent than Larissa. She already has an bunch of followers and she can recruit more people from the survivors. I also think she is the one with the best chance to convince Hunger to help the survivors with Ring of Blood. By showing him that there are good people among the Moon Civ. Right now, he doesn't particularly care what happens to these people in the aftermath but with Fairbright? He might decide that he needs to help and deal with the consequences of his action on ten million people.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Evacuation is much more difficult than with Larissa and they will be a righteous influence on us. Accordingly, we will be more likely to have to face the full strength of the Immortals rather than seeking to grab the Ring partway through the fight and deprive them of power. It's a concerning challenge.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Larissa is going to want to seize power herself, and the citizens will follow her lead automatically since Hunger himself isn't interested in dealing with it.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I mean what's wrong with some righteous influence? They still want to save the ring so much so that they were willing to go against there entire society, all they are likely to ask for in the aftermath is for Hunger to help the survivors with the Ring of Blood. I see it as an good thing. Hunger doing more heroic stuff and helping people is good for his mental health.
Anyway, Fairbright might also open up some unique picks in the aftermath.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
She is combat specced though now. I suppose she might still be useful for easier jobs.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The problem isn't inherent, the problem is only exactly what I laid out. It alters our strategy to make the fight more challenging. If that's going from 1% chance of death to 5% then so be it, but if it's going from 10% to 30% then it's unacceptable to me. We have to make an assessment of how impactful the difference in strategy is.
Jack-o'-Lantern
Local Shitposter
- Location
- Hell
[X] Heartpiercer
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] The Silver Horde
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] The Silver Horde
- Location
- Italy
Disagree about Hunger being completely disinterested in it, considering him caring too much about this stuff was exactly the reason he got assassinated.
Aside from the obvious use of Aeira to help us sneak attack people, can shadow girl hide our attacks as we make them? Maybe not Cut Through, but she should be capable of wrapping our blade-winds in her attention-deflecting shadows. Or do the same for Gisena, assuming Nullity doesn't make this task too difficult. Maybe have her steal our opponents' weapons and magical items mid-combat?
There is also the sound/music component of her power, though I'm not sure what exactly she's capable of in that regard and how we could best combine that with our own abilities.
There is also the sound/music component of her power, though I'm not sure what exactly she's capable of in that regard and how we could best combine that with our own abilities.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
From here apparently Hunger plans to just bail on the civilization after getting the ring. Also from here if we take Larissa we don't get involved in managing the civilians.
Hiding our attacks might be hard, our fights happen at some pretty insane speeds. Perhaps she could hide the entire battlefield, distracting our opponents by screwing their targeting?
Gisena on defense could keep their inevitable backlash from auto-killing her.
It depends who we're fighting though. Gisena defending her might not be an option. She might still be able to mitigate out-numbering if it comes to that by concealing a duel in the middle of a battlefield. People aren't super attentive to their surroundings when their heart's pounding in their ears. The benefits of giving Gisena a free sneak-attack are self-apparent as well.
re: talk of the Dimensional Rift falling apart. I wish we had Roilweft right about now...
Alayn can actually keep the order after we take the Ring, make sure evacuation is successful as well. Fairbright is a hero and has good intentions but we saw what happens to those people when they try to lead(*cough*Hunger in first chapter*cough*)
EDIT: Curse of hindsight - we could have taken Shameless, now take Vigor and a stance and could have fixed three of our main issues - Ranklet, protection and magic defense
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[x] Larissa of House Alynne
Actual benefits from having charisma! Maximum loot for minimum civilian casualties. Enough intelligence to give Aeira mission targets. Meaningful backup against immortals.
Note that when one evacuates people and then destroys their homes, it may be better than letting them die in place but one is still the destroyer rather the saviour. Which is fine, angry survivors are still survivors and will spread the legend of Lord Hunger.
---
[x] Magic-Defeating Stance
I'm more worried about Soul Evokers with magic than I am direct combat. Gisena can't cover everything, especially if she's avoiding friendly fire, and Hunger is just quicker too.
[ ] World-Defeating Stance - A martial stance of the Forebear. Forces natural and premeditated; forces unnatural and obscene - it matters not to the cause of the Forebear, whose march is steady and inevitable, carrying all before it. A billion realms brought to heel and countless more razed to ash, systems of the world in kaleidoscopic arrangement and all bent to his will. Meaningless as escape may be, more futile still is dissent: an enemy is just a future subject, and though they may forget the face of their fathers, the Forebear's visage is burned indelibly into their spirits.
If the user possesses all of the other [Type]-Defeating Stances, upgrades into All-Defeating Stance.
+.2 Rank, ++Luck, ++Intelligence, ++Protection
++++++Protection further against environmental harms, including from incompatible or hostile physics and metaphysics.
*Shelters wielder's powers from suppression or negation, even that resulting from a lack of magic or magical structures within the world.
*5x Power of Ruin against non-supernatural foes or phenomena beyond an human's ability to defeat.
I like those stats but I think most of what we'll face here will not be non-supernatural. The shelter from negation might be relevant if the Star Forges are a Ring trap but I think the cutting through of enemy magics from M-DS would also apply to that.
[ ] Weapon-Defeating Stance - A martial stance of the Forebear. He who would presume to wield force of arms against the Forebear dooms himself to inescapable plight, and well-deserved. No blade that crosses the Forebear's can help but shatter before its unbound might; neither fist nor bolt nor meteor strike can impel its steely aegis. A pre-requisite for All-Defeating Stance.
+++++AGI, +++++Might
5x Power of Ruin to sunder, intercept or destroy all weapons, natural or constructed
+++++Protection against all weapons, natural or constructed
So much dakka! OTOH we've just powered up our Might with Vigor Incarnate and can add some useful agility with Fierce Quickening - I'm more worried about esoteric effects than direct combat right now.
[ ] Hero-Defeating Stance - A Martial Stance of the Forebear. ++Might, ++Agility, +Wisdom, +0.2 external Rank. Halve the effects of enemy Rank if it is greater than your own. Halve the effects of being outnumbered, if you are outnumbered. This Stance is permanently active until switched for another [Enemy]-Defeating Stance. A pre-requisite for Foe-Defeating Stance. You may have [Rank/2, rounded down] Stances active at one time.
Rank gapss, we hatess them! If I wasn't going for M-DS I'd probably go for this.
- 1-pick options -
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might.
Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]
Never bad but as usual there's better on the table.
[ ] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
A ring of power does not exert influence casually. It has its own will, its own preferences, and if that will should be inseparable from its owner's, its sway thereby shall be greater for it.
The available domains for Hunger are: War, Passion
War dominion does sound tasty when running a rebellion. Would go well with the general Rank from W-DS and the intelligence and luck from that would go with the rank of general. That combo would be 9 arete with little direct smack-face or protection from magic.
[x] Fierce Quickening - The absurd violence of Blood unleashed. Let all that falls within its dominion be spilled, if it be in service to the Ringbearer. Adds [++Agility, +Wits] to the bonuses from Quickening, subject to the usual conditions. Can be taken up to 3 times.
Speed kills. Speed wins.
[ ] Exalted Spirit - 2 Arete. Conjunctional [Hunger, Evening Sky]. Mind made vigorous as the body. Gain +Int, +Wits, +Wis, +Cha, -Heartlessness, while in a form with physical blood. Allies under blood enhancement gain +Int, +Cha. Blood enhancement requires physical blood.
I want this but I voted for something else.
[ ] Evening Sky - Opalescence - The soft light of evening before which all attacks falter.
+Protection, improving defensive parameters.
We now have a decent base of Protection so even though this only gives one + the widened parameters would make it worth considering. Except that stances add more breadth and are also available.
Actual benefits from having charisma! Maximum loot for minimum civilian casualties. Enough intelligence to give Aeira mission targets. Meaningful backup against immortals.
Note that when one evacuates people and then destroys their homes, it may be better than letting them die in place but one is still the destroyer rather the saviour. Which is fine, angry survivors are still survivors and will spread the legend of Lord Hunger.
---
[x] Magic-Defeating Stance
I'm more worried about Soul Evokers with magic than I am direct combat. Gisena can't cover everything, especially if she's avoiding friendly fire, and Hunger is just quicker too.
[ ] World-Defeating Stance - A martial stance of the Forebear. Forces natural and premeditated; forces unnatural and obscene - it matters not to the cause of the Forebear, whose march is steady and inevitable, carrying all before it. A billion realms brought to heel and countless more razed to ash, systems of the world in kaleidoscopic arrangement and all bent to his will. Meaningless as escape may be, more futile still is dissent: an enemy is just a future subject, and though they may forget the face of their fathers, the Forebear's visage is burned indelibly into their spirits.
If the user possesses all of the other [Type]-Defeating Stances, upgrades into All-Defeating Stance.
+.2 Rank, ++Luck, ++Intelligence, ++Protection
++++++Protection further against environmental harms, including from incompatible or hostile physics and metaphysics.
*Shelters wielder's powers from suppression or negation, even that resulting from a lack of magic or magical structures within the world.
*5x Power of Ruin against non-supernatural foes or phenomena beyond an human's ability to defeat.
I like those stats but I think most of what we'll face here will not be non-supernatural. The shelter from negation might be relevant if the Star Forges are a Ring trap but I think the cutting through of enemy magics from M-DS would also apply to that.
[ ] Weapon-Defeating Stance - A martial stance of the Forebear. He who would presume to wield force of arms against the Forebear dooms himself to inescapable plight, and well-deserved. No blade that crosses the Forebear's can help but shatter before its unbound might; neither fist nor bolt nor meteor strike can impel its steely aegis. A pre-requisite for All-Defeating Stance.
+++++AGI, +++++Might
5x Power of Ruin to sunder, intercept or destroy all weapons, natural or constructed
+++++Protection against all weapons, natural or constructed
So much dakka! OTOH we've just powered up our Might with Vigor Incarnate and can add some useful agility with Fierce Quickening - I'm more worried about esoteric effects than direct combat right now.
[ ] Hero-Defeating Stance - A Martial Stance of the Forebear. ++Might, ++Agility, +Wisdom, +0.2 external Rank. Halve the effects of enemy Rank if it is greater than your own. Halve the effects of being outnumbered, if you are outnumbered. This Stance is permanently active until switched for another [Enemy]-Defeating Stance. A pre-requisite for Foe-Defeating Stance. You may have [Rank/2, rounded down] Stances active at one time.
Rank gapss, we hatess them! If I wasn't going for M-DS I'd probably go for this.
- 1-pick options -
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might.
Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]
Never bad but as usual there's better on the table.
[ ] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
A ring of power does not exert influence casually. It has its own will, its own preferences, and if that will should be inseparable from its owner's, its sway thereby shall be greater for it.
The available domains for Hunger are: War, Passion
War dominion does sound tasty when running a rebellion. Would go well with the general Rank from W-DS and the intelligence and luck from that would go with the rank of general. That combo would be 9 arete with little direct smack-face or protection from magic.
[x] Fierce Quickening - The absurd violence of Blood unleashed. Let all that falls within its dominion be spilled, if it be in service to the Ringbearer. Adds [++Agility, +Wits] to the bonuses from Quickening, subject to the usual conditions. Can be taken up to 3 times.
Speed kills. Speed wins.
[ ] Exalted Spirit - 2 Arete. Conjunctional [Hunger, Evening Sky]. Mind made vigorous as the body. Gain +Int, +Wits, +Wis, +Cha, -Heartlessness, while in a form with physical blood. Allies under blood enhancement gain +Int, +Cha. Blood enhancement requires physical blood.
I want this but I voted for something else.
[ ] Evening Sky - Opalescence - The soft light of evening before which all attacks falter.
+Protection, improving defensive parameters.
We now have a decent base of Protection so even though this only gives one + the widened parameters would make it worth considering. Except that stances add more breadth and are also available.