Briefly tackling the benefits of Fomenting Rebellion. Hunger is sure that the Immortals are at least a tier above the marshal, and that they might gather in such a way that life becomes difficult. Instead, we are gathering forces (we still attack, by the way! just committing less overall) to demoralize the opponent-- which does a few relevant things:

1.) Gather more intel on the Inner Ring society, learning how to best take advantage of their weaknesses and what the Ring means to them
2.) Get allies that are pretty guaranteed to follow us (GDS BROKEN AF)
3.) Bring in Gisena and Aeira, allowing for stealth and anti-magic to kick in, shoring up most of our weaknesses.
4.) Present an opportunity for diplomacy, by not bumrushing them immediately we present a coherent chance for them to deescalate and preserve their lives in one way or another.
 
There is likely another escalation in power from High Marshal to Immortals. So bow dude - Vanreir - Avecarn - ???

Combat wise, they can likely be reduced to Rank 5, 6, 7 and 8 respectively. We've beat Avecarn somewhat decisively which would put us at about 7.3 on that combat scale. That was before current improvement, which stands to increase our power by quite a bit, depending on Arete expenditure.

[X] Feat: Shameless
[X] Foment Rebellion

Mhm, sounds good, I guess. Getting Ennoblement would be quite synergistic, even if i am not really wiling to do so...
 
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...Avecarn was literally recalled from retirement.

That implies that no one in current active duty is as capable as he was, otherwise they could have reassigned temporarily to deal with Hunger.

That's something I agree with. What it does not imply is whether the pool of people who are generally called into tackle problems like Hunger outside the Inner Temple include people like the Immortals, in which case the fact they sent someone retired who was more capable then their active personnel doesn't necessarily mean he was the most capable person in the Inner Temple period. Given the Immortals seem to be councilors due to having voting powers and he wasn't called out as a councilor unlike Selune, this leads me to believe he was not in fact a Immortal, which is relevant when we take into account people become one of those by having incredible potent combat powers with which to defend the Ring.
 
Given the Immortals seem to be councilors due to having voting powers and he wasn't called out as a councilor unlike Selune, this leads me to believe he was not in fact a Immortal, which is relevant when we take into account people become one of those by having incredible potent combat powers with which to defend the Ring.
which is why any Councilor elevated to the Rank of Immortal
Not every councilior is an Immortal. The progression seems to be Outrider->Marshal->High Marshall->Councilor->Immortal .

Also I am pretty sure that Councilor is more of a political rank rather than representation of power. Remember Selune, we would have stomped her extremely easy. Still I suggest not understimating those magical facscists.
 
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On the other hand, Cut is the option that takes advantage of this disruption, if we strike now, we might only need to beat a few immortals while Forment rebellion means all of them will be ready against us.

So the question is whether facing a few immortals with as much power as we would have after this update is better or facing all of them combined with some allies?

I am starting to lean toward Cut, since I haven't seen an good plan of action so far for Forment rebellion.
 
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Not every councilior is an Immortal. The progression seems to be Outrider->Marshal->High Marshall->Councilor->Immortal .

Also I am pretty sure that Councilor is more of a political rank rather than representation of power. Remember Selune, we would have stomped her extremely easy. Still I suggest not understimating those magical facscists.


That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that it seemed like to me that Immortals are a subset of Councilors based on the bit in star forges about having their voting power cut in half when they become one and only about what happens when a Councilor is elevated to their rank, not that Councilors are a subset and thus all immortals, and that Avecarn not being called out as a councilor implied to me he wasn't a immortal and thus not the most dangerous his society had to offer. I wasn't saying that all Councilor's are Immortals. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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On the other hand, Cut is the option that takes advantage of this disruption, if we strike now, we might only need to beat a few immortals while Forment rebellion means all of them will be ready against us.

So the question is whether facing a few immortals with as much power as we would have after this update is better or facing all of them combined with some allies?

I am starting to lean toward Cut, since I haven't seen an good plan of action so far for Forment rebellion.
Forment Rebellion doesn't mean we fight them all at once, it means we fight a running battle while picking up recruits and whittling away at their forces rather than running straight into the center of their power and hoping for the best. Guerilla warfare while we wait for the rest of the team to arrive. This lets us get an idea of the strength of the immortals before we charge in.

If there's more than one immortal watching the ring or the immortals are indeed a tier higher than Avecorn and we go cut the chances of us being held up long enough to be surrounded are pretty high.
 
We've always got Hunger's Hero Skill Set to rely on.

He Was noted to have been rather skilled and talented in inciting riots and such whenever it was necessary during excursions against the Tyrant.

Of course, my concern there is that we'll be fighting the Immortals as well as any of their High Marshalls, on top of whatever Retired Badasses they've got going on somewhere.

The power to flip any of the Inners can be understood as reasonably low since why the fuck would they care about saving the ring when they're the ones benefiting from it? It'll throw in a lot of echoes to how Hunger got shafted post -Tyrant.

Which means we're most likely going to have to rely and rally Outriders to deal the bigger and more widespread inconveniences against them. If they've jailed up any power hungry people, or talented but "misguided" individuals then those'll help too.

But quite. I do agree on the issues of rebellion since the disparity of strength between those not in the inners and the Inners themselves must be quite notable.

And though we might have Guile DS, that doesn't mean that we'll actually have an imposing martial force come the time to strike.

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I also reserve the right to deny any and all accusations about me crying like a little bitch if we end up seeing Gramps grand kids.

I'm definitely not crying u r!
 
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If we end up going for Cut I again urge people to consider What Rains May Come. It costs no Arete and so allows to panic buy a Stance if we need, the maximum boost we can get from reverse wound penalties comes close to 100% I believe (and while that may be too risky, something like 50% would be extremely manageable since Hunger would be able to pop out the regeneration at any moment) and it even gives a situational immediate benefit from the gut wound Avecarn dealt to us even if we already healed (thanks Chief Dominion)!

Any attempt to wittle us down by the Inner Temple residents would be met with an increasingly ferocious offensive and in my opinion Hunger needs to be able to throw defense by the wayside for one last push if we want to reach the Ring before the rest of the Temple manages to mobilize against us.
 
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Plan:

1.) Use Aeira to gather intel about the sentiments of the average person
2.) Use fighting and confusion to ascertain the location of the Ring
3.) Cripple important sites, such as the Starforges, the Barracks, their agriculture
4.) Make message clear: stop torturing the Ring, you can survive otherwise. I'm sure our Rank instincts can help with that, but moreover put up posters, propaganda, give speeches if needs must
5.) Expand Bloodsense to evaluate nearby threats as well as check on civilian settlements. Avoid both, ideally.
6.) Set up a base of operations, spend time healing Versch, fend off assailants, force them to set up trench lines then retreat when they've dug in, make their life hell, send out waves of nullity regularly
 
To Battle's Close

Soon, he promised mentally, addressing the imprisoned Ring, willing his own to act as conduit. He did not know if the Rings could actually speak to one another, did not know if it was merely a futile gesture, but sought to offer whatever hope he could: the strength, perhaps, to resist for one day more, to deny its exploiters whatever power it could, here in this final hour. One way or another, your suffering ends soon.

He hadn't expect an answer of any kind, so Hunger startled when the Imprisoned Ring replied: first a trickle, then a steady stream, and finally a torrent of numinous power, transgressing space and time, raw potential like a livid thunderbolt flowing into the blood-red jewel of his own Ring. Crimson flared and blazed, a star risen from earth, such fearsome majesty that he staggered to contain it, the power of the jewel threatening to overcome and unbalance the Ring as a whole.

Well, didn't expect a response from the Azure Ring so soon, poor thing really must be starved for conversation if it just dumps all of its power to the first guy willing to talk to it. Else, Hunger's memetic hazard powers of infernal charisma are already influencing it through the shared connection of the Rings! I would hate to expose the poor Imprisoned Ring to the full force of Gisena's presence, let alone the supreme radiance of Imperia herself! Hmm, makes me wonder - in terms of pure APP score, who's higher now? Sublime Gisena who has superhuman beauty or Imperia who has perfect beauty derived from Vitalist Archmastery? Imperia seems more powerful but Vitalism is less focused on 'grace' as compared to the literal coalescence of 'perfection' that findross is meant to represent so kind of feels like Gisena might be superior in pure APP.

The agony of the Ring is making me pretty sympathetic to its pains, the artifact being so willing to be put out of its misery as to give its rival power enough to elevate even a Chief Dominion to the next level of ascension. Also, the mention of unbalancing our Ring makes me that we might be a little too invested in pure Blood effects as a proper Ruling Ring of Hunger requires the accompanying Dominions of War and Passion to be awoken in full for its crimson radiance to surge out in its full splendor. I wonder what kind of description War and Passion would get when their Dominions and Preeminences are manifested, since these concepts are a little more intangible than the primal nature of Blood.

The transformation of the Ring into the Ring of Blood, now exalted with the power of Crimson Flare is very evocative imagery though - nearing the sense of awe I felt during my read-through of Accursed Implement when we did the impossible and Cut Through. Only thing missing to make this even more cool is a complementing fight scene, cause the most satisfying aspect of gaining power is being able to rightfully seize power from others through victory in an epic contest of wills. It's what makes the Progression system of Cursebearer lore so compelling to me, being able to grow from each enemy and awaken a new aspect of the self through our struggles. The visceral nature of Accretion and Hunger's bold personality makes this quest quite a bit more interesting than Seram's quantification of Progression, which transformed the supernal experience of ascension into something more mundane, a deliberate grind towards efficiency rather than a savage struggle for power.

Also, I have to say that the Ring of Power focus in A Simple Transaction I and Even Further Beyond is a pretty pleasing addition to artifact description in fiction as a whole. Despite the Lord of the Rings being the grandfather of nearly all fantasy-fiction, codifying the very devices and tropes that have become interwoven into the tapestry of fantasy fiction, I have encountered few stories that prominently feature Rings as an object of power, perhaps because one could easily accuse such stories of blatant derivativeness. A shame though, because Rings have been a compelling imagery attached to them that I wish more stories would explore.

Gisena sheltered the girls as he forced down its catastrophic might, compressing its all-piercing radiance until it could be safely contained. Now the jewel glittered with translucent fire: final remnant of the Imprisoned Ring's defiance, all its hope and joy of life, all its remaining will to resist, given over to him.

The Call of the False Moon faded from his mind, and he knew instinctively that it had faded from every other. This was the final sally of the Imprisoned Ring, one last desperate act of trust when all else had failed.

Hunger closed his eyes.

"You're our only hope."

Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Sorry, when I see the words 'only hope', my mind automatically shoots to Stars Wars references.

This is a fairly poignant moment though. The Azure Ring desperately calling upon Hunger to be its savior, pinning all of its hopes upon its fellow Ring that its torment might finally be dispelled either through deliverance or the mercy of death. The jewel upon the Ring of Blood's band glows with not only the power of its fallen rival but with its very last wishes for salvation. The Moon has declared to all in this moment: this is my last stand, this is all the power within myself that I can give to you, my savior. In such a situation, what else could a Hero do but answer the call?

Tactically-speaking, that the Call of the False Moon, presumably a phenomenon that has stayed consistent for centuries if not millenia, has broken now means that our window of opportunity to save the Azure Ring is a small one, a tiny period of operation which we must fully exploit before the moment passes and the Ring is damned forever. The Encampment and its adventurers would no doubt feel the disappearance of the Moon's Call so we must strike while the fire is hot! Slaughter our way through the Outer Ring, cut down all who oppose us in the Middle Ring and deliver harsh punishment from on high to those callous slavers and torturers of the Azure Ring in the Innermost portion of the Temple!

A good deal of Crimson Flare's power is predicated upon our possession of the Azure Ring, upon us being the person to deliver it from its incomprehensible torture. If being able to fully make use of the Arete devoted to the Ring of Blood, a product of sacrifice, toil and compromise from the thread, requires us to cut through those indolent Immortals and butcher the corrupt Councilors of the Inner Ring, then so be it. I relish the opportunity to dismantle a civilization whose comfort is built upon the eternal torture of an sentient being, whose practices involve ousting entire bloodlines such as the Amarlt from their homes after generations of presumed leal service and building a society of ten million citizens devoted only to prolonging their wretched comfort and safety. The worst sin of all is Sloth, that most foul stagnation a society can demonstrate, and cutting out that cancer in a clean stroke is something I feel Hunger would strongly approve of.

How many times had they told him that in the campaign against the Tyrant? That he was it, that there was no other, that if he shirked his duty, or faltered, or failed, then it simply would not be done - only misery everlasting for the peoples of the world, clawing feebly at the yoke as it tightened and tightened.

It seemed he was not free of such duties. Perhaps would never be free. People fell into the patterns of their lives because of what they were good at. This was what he'd done all his life; was it such a surprise to have duty thrust upon him once more? Moreover, for something he intended to do anyway.

Even so, fuck these so-called interesting times.

In this respect, saving the Ring is not the first time Hunger has been called upon to be a Hero. Not the first time he has been called upon to become another's deliverance. As it was in the fight against the Tyrant, now in this campaign to liberate the Azure Ring, there is no other more suited to this task than Hunger. Some might call this a burden, an onerous duty charged against the soul. But it is the fundamental nature of a Hero to answer a call for help, as simple and natural as breathing. Hunger spent 11 years fighting against the Tyrant and attempting to save his world and while surely, bitterness and fury might have him driven him during the times when he was pressed to his limits, I do not think it was an entirely passionless affair. In fact, that Passion is of the primary domains of the Ring of Hunger, denotes that such intense drive is as fundamental to the Hero as his aptitude for War and his natural predilection for bloodshed.

Perhaps, to others, this might be a duty not possible to bear. But those others are not Heroes.

Despite all that though, even though it is natural for Hunger to venture forth to save others, it is regrettable that the universe allows such tragedies to come to pass and that Hunger's presence is necessary at all. The universe may indeed be at odds with the possibility of peace for all involved. In that way, though the world and the ideal exist in disharmony, it does not mean the ideal has to change. It is not the ideal that is wrong. It is the world. And perhaps such a world is too cruel to exist after all. So too is the society of the Temple thus primed for a reckoning.

And wouldn't you know? The Reckoner is one of Hunger's titles now.

Also, I see we've reached the phase of deploying Precision F-Strikes against the Apocryphal Curse in story now. Later than I expected given the Apocryphal has triggered twice now, but this instance of 'interesting times' has a more personal impact on Hunger given his nature as a fellow Ringbearer, I suppose.

He understood the sorrow of the Imprisoned Ring, the depths it must have been driven to, not only to ask a rival for aid, but to beg, and to invest everything in that begging. He understood its shattered pride, the egregious disgrace of its situation, the sheer hollowing agony of its every moment.

For that reason he did not resent the Ring for casting this burden upon him. The power it had gifted him would make its salvation easier. But he would freely resent the universe, and the Apocryphal Curse that guided it, until the end of his days.

No, he shook his head. Until he overcame them both. That was the promise of Progression, after all. Live, and grow strong. So long as he took care of the former, it would ensure the latter.

Live, and rescue the Ring, and grow strong.

To be reduced to such an extent as to beg your rival... this turn of phrase really stirs up a sense of righteous indignation in me. I'm one hundred and twenty percent on board the 'wreck temple civilization's Inner Ring and Council' train!

It's kind of heart-warming in a way that Hunger has become so driven to rescue the Ring, incorporating its salvation as one of his primary motivations alongside the chief directives for a Progression-type Cursebearer to live and thus grow strong. He can sympathize so strongly with the Imprisoned Ring that he accords its rescue with the same importance he grants to his Accursed-given tasks. I wonder if the same, or an even more powerful response would be provoked if one of his companions were subjected to the same treatment? It is in moments like this, that I wonder what the Hero was originally like, how fiercely did he feel, how great a soul he must have been that even now, substantially diminished from his previous stature and having burnt away so much of his self - Hunger remains a Hero to the core, willing to confront an entire civilization and uproot a society to save a being to which he feels kinship.

In that regard, it might only be natural for a man of such strong emotion as to be driven forward by mere empathy to declare Vengeance upon the universe itself for the sin for taking away his leal companions and seek to avenge both himself and his comrades upon the Hidden Ones.

Also, if we presume each individual Curse laid upon the Accursed is a specific malus inflicted by one of his enemies, that sort of implies something about their thematics and level of power. Perhaps the Affliction of Slumber is a Curse derived from an Azathoth-esque entity of power, whose themes involve sleep and dreaming. But its overall power must not be so extreme (relatively speaking) if it only forces a person to need twice as much sleep as the average person. Or it could be Slumber has been mitigated greatly by preceding Cursebearers or for some reason, it is still so potent that the Accursed takes on most of the burden on himself else it would render every potential Cursebearer comatose and insensate to the world.

As a casual segue into the Geas of Indenture, given that this is presumably the most common Curse among all of the Cursebearers the Accursed has, I really have to wonder how insanely long the original period of the Curse was. Also, what the heck would have been the kind of task imposed by the Accursed? Eternally be bound to killing certain almighty gods and wiping out whole multiverses? The original form of this Curse must be insane considering it must have been originally unmitigated and it being relevant on the Accursed's power level must mean the tasks would be similarly onerous to him as it would be difficult for a mere Cursebearer. I assume that the Accursed automatically mitigated every Curse he received to something that wouldn't instantly destroy the omniverse in exchange for reducing himself from true omnipotence to simply being the strongest existence in the omniverse.

The Apocryphal Curse seems like it could be only unleashed by a Final Boss character amongst Final Bosses though, a Curse that is fundamentally elevated from Lesser Curses and Major Curses alike by a qualitative difference in power, as wide as the gulf between firmament and earth. The difference among Curse strength at the Cursebearer-level may not be immediately obvious, as an insect would not be able to conceive the difference between a mere water droplet and a galactic supercluster due to the sheer incomprehensible gulf in scale. But that the Apocryphal Curse is manifestly more powerful than all other Curses even at its basic levels, kind of implies that there is a sinister and tremendous quality to the entity who laid this Curse upon the Accursed. It could be something akin to how the Ascendant Sign of Essence was above the Sign of Blood, a simple difference in inherent salience in the entities which deployed these Curses.

Speaking on my impressions of Hunger, I really like that he's sort of developed a similar kind of vehemence towards the universe as what Odyssial demonstrated during the Prelude of Most High, his hatred of the Hidden Ones almost being equated with Odyssial's disdain of the daeva and the Titans in my mind. Though Hunger doesn't seem to have attained the supreme excellence of the Most High, his willpower and themes have sort of begun coalescing in that direction in my opinion, which is something I strongly support.

He rose from his seated position. "There's no way they didn't notice that. Tomorrow morning may be too late."

Lucky that Aeira had gotten them the intelligence she had. He could only hope his present strength was enough to deal with the Immortals of the Temple. The Imprisoned Ring had given him little choice.

Gisena laid a gentle hand on his arm. "Hey. This isn't your responsibility, no matter how it may make you feel. You can still walk away. Always."

He smiled bitterly. "That may be the smart thing to do. And likely the wise thing as well. But only one of us here is a genius. Find me when your meditations are complete."

So saying, he leapt off Verschlengorge, making for the Temple directly.

Oof. Hunger dealing out the fiery self-burns, no doubt honed over a long decade of survivor's guilt and self-incrimination during what might have been a less than hopeful campaign of terrorism against a near unassailable Tyrant. I know I said earlier in the thread that I wasn't really super keen on committing to character banter and interactions for the quests, but moments like these, charged with a certain solemnity and quiet support makes me appreciate that Hunger has friends. But Gisena's words don't fit Hunger much at all and to me it seems only e would have to continue his quest to liberate the Ring.

Perhaps, one could always walk away. But the path of a Hero is only and always forward. Through, even if it would be wiser to go around. Do, even if it cannot be done.

Relating to the earlier part of my reaction, where I talked about how Hunger seems to be a very emotional person who values comrades greatly, I appreciate that our choice of Surge for him was Edeldross, that power born from his connection to his newfound friends (and Catherine, perhaps a shadow of his wife still existing in this world, or a reincarnation of her spirit). Over the course of my reactions, I've warmed to the idea of Hunger putting others ahead of himself and I think a strong element underpinning his vengeance is his unwillingness to make the sacrifices of his comrades less meaningful by allowing the continued existence of Hidden Ones that have orchestrated their downfall. It's an interesting aspect of characterization that I find very plausible and compelling, a clear manifestation of a heroic personality.

I wouldn't be opposed to developing his connection to Gisena, Letrizia and now Aeira further if such opportunities present themselves. I've kind of convinced myself that'd be interesting, though I've also simultaneously talked myself into being much more inclined to learn about Hunger's backstory. I'm particularly interested in what his relationships with his fallen comrades were like, what were the kind of adventures he experienced that made him so dedicated to achieving vengeance upon their behalf. If there's a Catherine option in the future, I might find myself obligated to vote for it to satisfy my curiosity cause I think their romance must have been something pretty intense that Hunger retains her memory even now, choosing to burn away his own name and history first before the impressions upon his self Catherine left in her wake. In the same vein though, I've become even less interested in new romance options because my headcanon of Hunger being devoted to Catherine still even in literal infinite cardinalities of meta-escalation and octillion years of Indenture later is pretty compelling to me - truly romantic in the most immense sense of objective time.

The gift of the Imprisoned Ring had tremendously augmented his own Chief Dominion. Blood rushed and thundered in his ears, an ocean of awareness that stretched far miles: vein and capillary, pulse and heartbeat were naked to him, from the birds in the air to the beasts of the earth, and all the humanity of the Encampment in-between. It was a deluge, too much to process, and he hurriedly tamped it down, focusing the power as it solidified, directing it into his immediate vicinity alone. A greater concentration of power was more suitable to his purposes.

He accelerated, world a watercolor blur. There was the Temple.

In through the gates, then quickly across the grasslands, up over the mountains and into the Middle Ring. Edeldross-infused, he pushed forward, faster than he'd gone before, the accumulated power of recent days like thunderheads gathering in his wake. Outriders tried feebly to intercept. Those who could not keep up were ignored, the others slaughtered. The Inner Temple loomed, dome of matte blue like still deep waters, a globe stripped bare of land.

The descriptions of Hunger's now overwhelming power are always appreciated. Being able to truly explore the massive increase in Hunger's strength is always interesting, not only for the vivid expressions of his abilities, but because it allows one to consider the disparity between Hunger at the beginning of the quest and the Hunger that made it through the Temple. I'm super glad that we voted for the Temple of the False Moon, not only because I find the narrative focus on Ring lore and saving a being tortured for power for centuries and millenia to be super heroic, but because Hunger likely wouldn't have been able to attain the same absurd levels of Progression from other paths.

It's pretty awesome that though Hunger would have struggled with the creatures of the Outer Ring and be pushed to his limits by the Outriders of the Middle Ring just three or four days ago, he's grown so far beyond that level of power that he can easily ignore their assaults upon his person and butcher them with the same casualness in response. The Ring of Blood really elevated his physical power greatly and combined with the devastating conceptual potency of Cut Through, his offensive force must be off the charts. Well, I guess that's what happens when you pour in power from acquiring two EFB-equivalents into a character in a short timeframe, it causes the massive increases in their power-level to appeal abruptly though Rihaku has managed to work each of Hunger's powerups pretty organically into the story - another benefit of Accretion being paired with Progression perhaps. In essence, enough power (A R E T E for days) can force our build to acquire some degree of S Y N E R G Y even when we're doing our damndest to avoid having a consistent build.

Bloodslayer's Quickening gives us SANIC levels of speed which paired with Sword Praxis allows us to unleash devastating one-hit damage. Edeldross enhances our every attribute, naturally augmenting our physical combat power while giving some great stats for mental and social purposes. And the blood-manipulation powers of the Ring allows us to deal damage not only in bursts but continuously worsen the effects of our initial attacks, transforming mere wounds into debilitating DoT debuffs. Our speed and strength are pretty ridiculous now with our ability to convert Strength directly to Power of Ruin as well so the only major hole in our build still remaining is our defenses (ironic to be sure) which I suppose we can either address with Praxis effects like The King Stands Alone which let us cut mental and spiritual attacks alongside drastically enhancing our proactive defenses against enemies or investment into the Evening Sky (lol). More seriously, I think leveling Protection wouldn't be out of hand in the future (as in, the far-flung future) but Hunger has a tendency of tackling threats that require overwhelming power to overcome rather than comprehensive coverage in all areas so I'm not sure if Evening Sky upgrades aside from its EFB will be forthcoming in the near-term.

Also, and this is just a personal preference and derived from thirst for L O R E, I want Hunger to develop Sword Praxis effects both because I really love the Praxis and also I think they fit his aesthetics and themes of willpower much more. Evening Sky is very visually cool in my mind, wrapping the night sky around us as a cloak is super awesome, and Microwave's artworks have made me like the Artifact quite a bit more than I initially thought I would but its offered effects just don't quite seem worth their Arete cost.

A man strode out to meet him, a solid brick wall of muscle, his face creased and cragged, hair streaked with gray. He wore a uniform of gray and black, a marshal's baton strapped to his side, eyes like coals flecked with bronze.

Hunger flared his Ring and felt the man's blood quail before him, even as the greater portion stood strong. Even with all his newfound powers, this would not be an easy fight.

He stopped, addressing the man directly. "Care to live more than a thousand years?"

The man chortled, a low, bleak rumble. "Hah! Ask me again in seven centuries."

The High Marshall, Avecarn. Old men in Rihaku quests always provoke a certain degree of caution in me, after three quests of Zao and characters like Cathak Polemgaos and Yong Shen, I'm always a little apprehensive of these high rank, old-aged dudes. This guy seems pretty tough too, shrugging off our Rank 7 level of blood manipulation with no visible sign of distress. I voted for Gondar first then Avecarn cause I love me some fight scenes and the sheer Arete costs of picking Selune was just too difficult to justify spending on. I still hope that social can work out here, cause Avecarn was noted to specifically minimal motivation to fight.

However, our main social tactic from picking up Crimson Flare seems not particularly relevant here since this guy is apparently not that old for an old man, only three-hundred years old and thus not as open to our life-boosting trade offer. That he's rejected it so completely shuts down a lot of avenues of social argumentation we prepared for acquiring the Crimson Flare. In that respect, Renaissance Woman was a superior option for social since we can offload the burden to the superhuman competence of Gisena instead of having to rely on our feeble minds to come up with tactics. In my experience in Rihaku quests, except for Bleach Quest and the occasional insight from Blorcyn or Projectile, a lot of our tactics are never quite as effective as the ones Rihaku devises. I mean, in this quest, we missed the use of interposing the Ring between Vanreir's thrust to deflect a killing blow and that was the decisive tactic that let us win. Just leaving it up to Rihaku and his efficiency-based superpowers may have been better in terms of trying to attain a social victory.

For me personally though, I just prefer personal power to investing in our companions, particularly at the cost of 25 Arete so I'd rather lean towards a compromise of both personal and social power to try and achieve an acceptable outcome from an encounter with a guy that can be fought both socially and physically. It's a shame that Avecarn poses to be more obstinate than hoped for (probably natural considering he is the Administrator and probably disdains the insane changes our presence would bring about) but a fight against him is also perfectly within my sphere of acceptable outcomes. We'll be able to more effectively gauge our combat power now that we've elevated our Rank and the potency of our Blood effects, though if we end up going against a golem or non-living creature, that would remain a dangerous challenge to overcome.

No urgency. Unfortunate. "You people must have known this day was coming."

"Confident, aren't you?" The man frowned, eyes darting to Hunger's finger. "Maybe that's justified, you've got a Ring all to yourself. Some might say it's greedy to go looking for more."

"Are you going to pretend ignorance of what's inflicted on your own?"

"A Ring is not a person," the man shook his head, frown deepening. "Seems you've forgotten that, or maybe never knew it in the first place. Fail to master it and it will master you."

"Perhaps," Hunger shrugged. "But that doesn't justify what your society has done. Let your Ring rest at last. Turn it over voluntarily, or help me secure it, and I can empower you and yours with my own."

Again the man shook his head. "Sorry, kid. I've got a family that depends on that thing to live. Putting everyone's lives into only your hands? That's not happening."

A Ring is not a person, true in a sense but not particularly enough to dissuade Hunger who is driven to liberate a being to whom he feels kinship. Hunger is a man animated by principle and the utility of the Ring's torture to the society of the Temple may be undeniable in objective terms but such details cannot stop a man whose power is derived from his will and emotions. Though Avecarn's words about the Ring mastering us strikes me as a little incisive, our will is one with the Ring and the Ring's will is one with us but there must still be an original will contained with the Ring that later became one with us.

I have little fear that an Accursed-bound Artifact would turn against us but there is an element of danger and change introduced by the possibility of external Artifacts affecting our selves as I brought up in my reaction to Nature of Magic where I considered Accretion's effects. However, it is noted that Hunger has an unnatural talent for suborning the Artifacts of others and subordinating them to his will, binding them so closely as to almost make his existence and that of his Panoply indistinguishable. So this fear of mental contamination doesn't seem particularly crucial or severe at the moment and I remain hopeful that developing our Artifacts will simply allow us the option to introduce new, interesting elements into Hunger's characterization as well as reveal more lore behind the Forebear's Blade and what in the world is going on with these Rings.

Anyway, negotiations between the High Marshall and Hunger have broken down and there's only one outcome which encounters between such strongly opposed individuals can devolve into: conflict.

And so Hunger struck, the power of his Ring pressing down upon his foe, blue of true reality outlining his Blade as it descended with cataclysmic force. The marshal reacted quickly, interposing his baton, but could not resist the power of Hunger's cut, and lost half his hand before he twitched out of the way. A spike of fired Edeldross adjusted the vector of his charge, stifling the marshal's evasion. The Forebear's Blade pierced through his foe's shoulder even as the man howled, plunging his free hand through Hunger's guts.

Meaningless. With the elevated Ring of Blood such wounds were nearly immaterial. He clenched the muscles of his core, trapping the man's arm for an instant, and twisted his blade downwards, carving through shoulder and breast. The marshal grunted, blood seeping from his mouth as he fell to a knee. With a desperate surge of energy he exploded backwards, tearing his shoulder free of the trapped arm, extending the distance between them.

Sword Praxis demonstrates its absurd burst damage, easily cleaving through the Marshall's defenses with a blue effect that again calls to mind Suizhen's Sky-Splitting Blade though while her ability seemed to strike at reality, Cut Through seems to both tear apart and be empowered by reality. That the Praxis is based on underlying principles of reality so fundamental as to exist in all universes in the infinite span of the cosmos may account for this particular trait since I'm sure that Praxis effects are probably conceptually superior to the Reality Effects of a Cultivator's Dao. I wonder what a Praxis practitioner is called though? Praxist?

Hunger is hardcore though. Getting impaled by an opponent's hand and then trapping it to deal even more damage to his opponent in turn. Avecarn made a serious mistake engaging us in melee combat, that's the arena we're absolutely the strongest in and where we can deal the most damage so he might not have quite grasped that idea. I saw that Rihaku mentioned our possession of Guile-Defeating Stance made the High Marshall reconsider his strategy since he knew that we would see through deceptive ploys but I wonder if fighting at range and employing a series of tricks might still be the better option for him.

Relentlessly he pressed the attack, pouring blade-winds towards the retreating figure, sharpness like a humming shrike screaming towards him. The marshal twisted, inhaling deeply, accepting a blow to the chest in order to counterattack, a roar of pure stygian force that upturned the earth in its wake. Ripping free his foe's embedded arm, Hunger hurled it at the blast, deflecting enough of the energies that he could weather the remainder with the Evening Sky, though the cloak was torn to bits around him.

This battle was nearing its end. A seal of blood closed around the hole in his torso, while his enemy's wounds bled liberally, a ceaseless arterial spray. Still the marshal rallied, lunging at him, a second Pressure-infused bark ripping through Hunger's remaining blade-winds, driving towards a final confrontation.

But there was no room here for honor, no spirited duel of ideals. Hunger dove to the side, focused shamelessly on evading, simply falling back and giving wide berth to the marshal's dying rampage, his magnificently pointless death-throes. The Jewel of Blood did the rest.

The inadvertent synergies of our build are finally on display though. Uttermost enabling the easy use of Thousand Cuts, Fall of Night extending the range of our blade-winds, Cut Through rendering each swing of our sword a strike of apocalyptic force, further enhanced by the Strength-amplified Power of Ruin all while Edeldross continues to increase the absolute values of our stats. Our offense really is just absurdly high in comparison to the rest of our abilities. It's nice that the Evening Sky can still contribute at this level though, preventing us from being seriously harmed but that nuclear-arms negation is really proving itself to be less relevant ever since our fight against the Wurmbeast.

The Ring of Blood really is a great ability, very all-purpose, healing us while exacerbating the severity of the High Marshall's bloodloss. Self-healing and continuously increasing DoT debuffs are pretty sick and combined with the absurd burst potential of Sword Praxis makes us preeminently killy. Also, Hunger demonstrates some more of his coldness here, stepping aside from the dying High Marshall to simply wait for his death like a calculative Nightmare Praetor might. Excellent execution of a plan, quickly killing the enemy while remaining relatively unscathed.

Mighty as the marshal was, greater than Hunger in Astral strength, he was not Vanreir whose body was as a blade. This was a champion among men, with all a mortal's failings. Liter by liter the marshal bled out until not even the iron wall of his Pressure could stand him upright any longer. He fell, eyes blank, his blood and his life expended utterly in service of his nation, and Hunger did not look back.

---

Vanreir remains the OG, per Hunger's own words! Fret not, Unerring Blade, tales of your prowess will continue to echo on in Hunger's mind though your soul might remain sleeping and dreaming in the multitudes contained within the Imprisoner. Glad to see we managed to overcome the Rank difference, always pretty apprehensive of a 1 Rank difference which can make an enemy 'overwhelming' in relative power. Vanreir was a similarly overwhelming enemy to face and he inflicted a True Maiming upon us that we still have to work through.

I'm pretty curious as to what Avecarn's magic of Adminstration really does though. When I first read his description, I thought he was going to be like the Knight-Commander and Magus combined, a magician at the head of a legion of followers that would be empowered by his presence and harry us as we try to close the distance. More like an RPG Boss with Adds to serve as both sword and shield while he would cast devastating spells upon us from afar. One person versus a group in combat always tends to be tricky. But it seems Avecarn was just enhanced by his postion, converting his authority to pure physical power rather than directing a honor guard of knights in battle.

The winner was [X] Guile-Defeating Stance with [X] Combat.

Onwards.

Guile-Defeating won huh. Makes a social approach to conquering the Temple probably better suited in this particular situation now, but I'm committed to cutting through the Inner Ring as quickly as possible. The Ring's salvation should not be delayed any further. Let's get the hell out of this Temple as soon as humanly possible, post-haste even!

[ ] Cut - The state of disarray and relative confusion induced by the Imprisoned Ring's final surge of volition will not last much longer. While the defenders are still poorly-organized, push for the Treasure At Temple's Heart. With the surge of power gained from the marshal's defeat, bring an end to this at last. +1 pick below.

*The defenders are scattered and disorganized. Many Immortals and relevant combatants may be at home or otherwise occupied. Free the Ring and finish this.

Fire and ashes! Sword and war! The clarion call of battle sings through my blood and impels me to finish the temple as quickly as feasible. Launch a decapitating stroke at their leadership while their defenses are still reeling from the loss of the High Marshall! Run the Council rooms red with the blood of their politicians and we can probably quell popular revolt through spreading fear and total confusion through the populace. Those Immortals sound like serious business so I'd really rather not have to confront them, even one overwhelming enemy can set back a lot of our progress so I'd rather kill the weakened guards around the Ring before they can deploy their trump cards. Attacking the Lazulite Halls still gave Winter enough time to signal Zang Kong to emerge from his Ascendancy Coccon so I don't want to risk the chance that delaying our onslaught gives them the time to rouse someone of equivalent status in the Inner Ring.

[ ] Foment Rebellion - These Immortals are likely a tier above even the marshal, in which case Hunger cannot be confident of his odds even against one, much less a group. Attack, but do so in a way that demonstrates your power and the inevitability of your victory. Secure what allies of opportunity you can from the repressed, the downtrodden or the merely resentful.

*Your intelligence reports have revealed the potential cracks in Inner Ring society. It would be a shame not to exploit them and improve your odds of victory in the long run.
*Lose the momentum of your sudden assault and be virtually guaranteed to oppose the full complement of Immortals gathered in their place of power.
*As you have the Guile-Defeating Stance, the chance of your collaborators successfully betraying you is low.
*Prolongs the battle enough for Gisena and Aeira to join you, though this may endanger them.

---

Loss of momentum is what really does in this option for me. We've breached the Outer and Middle Rings at an absurd pace, the Inner Ring has to be reeling from their losses currently. Giving them time to regroup just lets them deploy even stronger Immortals. I value Gisena's contributions greatly but she's ways squishier than us and I'm not sure that we can protect her while being assault by multiple Immortals. I remember Ulyssian's fight against the Immaculates being tough enough; I don't want to go through that while having to defend our allies as well, particularly Aeira who just doesn't have the stats and defenses to not be chunked at this level of power. I'm hopeful the ninja girl can contribute offensively but I am wary that she'll be butchered by the higher-ranking Immortals of the Inner Ring.

You have 2 picks, or 3 if Cut was chosen, and about 3.2 Arete.

Alright boys, time to survey the range of shinies! 3.2 Arete seems so much lesser than our reserves just an update or two ago but if we power up enough and flex our fanwork-creation muscles, I'm confident we could hit 7 Arete for sure.

[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might.
Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]

Still a great pick, classic and useful enough that Double Echo was what helped us break through the intiail portion of the Outer Ring. STATS are great, though less relevant given our surfeit of buffs, raw stats and other powers. I wonder how many Echoes it'll take to reach the Forebear's level of strength though, haven't we picked up like 4 of 5 Echoes at this point? What, are there like 100 Cloud-Shadows we have to collect to reach the Forebear's might ranking? Is Echo collection the sidequest / minigame chain in A Simple Transaction?!

[ ] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
A ring of power does not exert influence casually. It has its own will, its own preferences, and if that will should be inseparable from its owner's, its sway thereby shall be greater for it.

The available domains for Hunger are: War, Passion

Ah, Dominion, my first love when it comes to Arete options and power effects. I have been a devout acolyte of the Ruling Ring Rush strategy ever since Rihaku revealed that we could buy an EFB piecemeal but the thread has proven to be less affectionate towards my preferred 25 Arete option due to fears over the contest of primacy trigged by attaining the Ruling Ring. I maintain that the contest of primacy sounds awesome and it would be a great way to bring more Ring lore into the setting but I understand that most of the thread is not nearly as gungho about the risk of death as me. At this juncture, I think War is pretty immediately relevant being a 0.5 Rank boost to us as well as our Blood manipulation.

I saw one of Rihaku's comments questioning whether Hunger really does feel Passion towards the task of saving the Ring or does he view it more as a cold execution of his duties? From my read of his character and view of his thematics, I definitely feel that he legitimately feels Passion in this instance. At his core, Hunger remains a Hero and he no doubt blazes with the same insane fervor in this moment as he does in regards to Vengeance. Hunger has also previously expressed great enjoyement in battle and conflict and that the Passion Dominion has become available at this point signals to me that Passion is applicable here as well. The more concerning thing for his build is whether we'll be able to unlock a Preeminence for Passion following picking up this Dominion. I don't doubt the thread's ability to generate Arete if we need it but I'm not particularly sure we'll be able to trigger a Preeminence unlock for Hunger 'cept through insanely dangerous contests of sword skill or even more risky... F I S H I N G.

I still think Ring Dominions are a good pick since they build into Ruling Ring which we're definitely going to pick up, but given the crucial nature of the upcoming fight, we might need to pivot to more immediately powerful effects. Particularly since Ruling Ring would likely be delayed til after we pick up an Evening Sky EFB so we can finally complete the Trinity Special Advancement.

[ ] Fierce Quickening - The absurd violence of Blood unleashed. Let all that falls within its dominion be spilled, if it be in service to the Ringbearer. Adds [++Agility, +Wits] to the bonuses from Quickening, subject to the usual conditions. Can be taken up to 3 times.

Fierce Quickening still has the best description of the more basic picks, violence and speed go hand in hand in my opinion and being able to escalate to increasingly more SANIC levels of speed should bode only good things for our combat power. It's a shame we only have 3 picks even if we pick Cut and that the next Blood Advancement will probably cost 2 picks and 2 Arete, otherwise I'd just mainline Quickenings in the hopes that we trigger an even more insane speed boost. Maybe something like - The quickening of blood begets speed, increased speed begets ever-faster blood, intertwining upon each other until your blood literally explodes into flame from the sheer speed. That'd be pretty insane and is totally awesome mental image!

I'll probably shill for unlocking the Blood Advancement behind this in future votes when we're more pick-wealthy / in a less dangerous situation and we have more fleixbility to pursue long-term goals but double Fierce Quickening isn't looking too hot right now. Maybe pairing one Quickening with a 2 pick option would be good though.

[ ] Augment Dominion: Blood - The world-wielding will of the Ring.
Treat the wielder's Rank as if it were (.5 Low/.25 Medium/.1 High) higher for purposes of the [Ring of Power] effect applied to the Blood domain, increasing its potency and versatility. Repeatable, but costs 1 more pick each time.

Augment Dominions are pretty great and all, especially as we just saw how insanely useful Blood manipulation is in combat. Taking this up would boost our buffs, healing, combat strength and virtually every aspect of our current build. But the Rank boost in efficacy is relatively more modest at the moment and I'd rather unlock other Dominions than invest in this currently, particularly given the escalating pick cost of the option and the fact that once we rescue the Azure Ring, Crimson Flare's full power will come online and all of the contingent effects contained under the Ring of Blood (Ennobling, Augment Dominion, etc) would be enhanced greatly. Arete pushed towards those options might be refunded but the picks won't be and we're currently working under pick-low, Arete medium to heavy situations. Got to give this option a pass at this time.

[ ] Evening Sky - Opalescence - The soft light of evening before which all attacks falter.
+Protection, improving defensive parameters.

[ ] Evening Sky - Iridescence - 2 Arete - The sharp light of the stars before which all malice is lessened.
+Protection, +Charisma. Expands the range of effects subject to the Evening Sky, allowing it to passively weaken almost all forms of magic. Even Nullity itself can be once withstood before the Sky recedes. Requires Opalescence.

[ ] Evening Sky - Pearlescence - 7 Arete - Woe unto they who would stand against the bearer of Evening, for all the stars in heaven are their enemies, and the moon above as well.
+++Protection, and the protection granted by the Evening Sky now automatically scales to its wearer's power; effectively, the wearer is granted an additional Experience modifier whose output is automatically applied to the Evening Sky. Requires Iridescence.

Evening Sky? What's that?

Joking aside, I can't see how these effects are worth the Arete cost at this juncture and I can't rightly support it right now. Inksky was a much better option of increasing our Protection and allowing the defensive strength of the Evening Sky to scale with us though I don't regret picking up Edeldross at all, especially now that I've talked myself into loving Hunger's backstory. That Catherine + is super mysterious and the combat benefits Edeldross has offered us have definitely made up for the temporary reduction in the Evening Sky's relevance to us. I'd be inclined to consider Evening Sky upgrades in the future but I doubt they'd be as great and all-encompassing as Inksky was so I'm kind of forced to put Evening Sky at the bottom of my priority list.

The Opalescene chain is also too pick and Arete exprensive for me to argue for now. I'll sadly be forced to turn my attentions elsewhere.

[ ] Vigor Incarnate - 2 picks, 2 Arete. The glory of Blood triumphant. Let those who would stand against him cower, or be undone. A simple but exceptionally powerful option.

Adds [+++Might, ++Charisma] to the bonuses from Quickening, subject to the usual conditions.
Add your Charisma to your Protection.

This is a pretty crazy option, chaining greatly with the two stacks of Fierce Quickening we can grab. Stats are always great and this buffs up our primary combat steroid to even more absurd levels by also making us even closer to a memetic hazard. That Vigor Incarnate is such a great advancement makes me even thirstier for the Blood Advancement unlocked from maxing out the Fierce Quickening line. Vigor Incarnate seems like over-concentrating on stats though, which we already have an abundance of at this juncture. Rank boosts are more appealing to me overall. Though, I'd definitely like to pick this up before we get more Fierce Quickenings so we can fully leverage the inherent synergies of the two blood effect trees.

[ ] Ennobling - 2 Arete (2 picks)

Ambition's work is conducted atop the shoulders of giants. Raise up one's servants to appropriately towering stature.

The process of comprehensive elevation of all positive attributes of the blood. Applied continuously over a long period, boons may become permanent and expand in scope, enhancing all qualities of the target and their future offspring. Applies up to +++All Stats to the target, Lifespan improves by fourfold. Elevates the target by .5 Rank to a maximum of 3.5. Does not work on yourself or on species whose native Rank is higher than 4.5.

Effects become permanent after a few weeks focused on a single target, or a few years focused on a small population. Further Advancements may improve both the scale and speed of augmentation. With a thought, the original bestower may retract any boon so given, so long as they possess the Ring of Blood.

Elevates our allies, lets them become more useful to us. Great for a Dark Lord in need of minions, granting easy access to an army of superhuman soldiers over time! This isn't super conducive to the combat power we need now and I am not super interested in splitting Hunger's Progression from a strong Warrior / Mage build into a ruler archetype at the moment. That Ennobling is pick-costly and demands Arete too is also a drawback. Overall, not keen on taking it at the moment, maybe ever given that Crimson Flare gives this ability to us for free anyway once we save the Ring.

[ ] Feat: Shameless - +.25 Rank (2 picks).

Yields +.325 Rank with Uttermost bonus.

R A N K. If swording and mageing isn't workinng out, have you considered getting more R A N K ? What more needs to be said? More seriously, we're Stats-heavy and power-heavy right now and still comparatively low on Rank (we've taken what maybe 2 Rank boosts in the past? Crown and Crimson Flare?) so we should seriously consider just grabbing this alongside a Dominion. Would boost us to maybe 5.8 in effective combat Rank and that's pretty darn close to Rank 6 in combat power. Also, we probably want to consider picking up some Feats at some time, it's kind of embarassing for Hunger to have so many powers and be so absurdly strong statistically speaking yet have such a low Rank :V If we ever intend to grow our Rank, Feats seem like a necessary part of our legend - it's just kind of weird that for our Accretion-derived powers which reward insane feats of prowess with Rank (which we've accomplished several of) we've never taken up any Feats. Kind of feels like a bit of a hole in our thematics and aethetic.

Feat: Shameless combined with Ring: Dominion is my second favored option at the moment but there's another thing which I think deserves more attention.

[ ] Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come. (3 picks)

To strike at him would arouse his disdain. To strike at his loved ones, would arouse his ire. Once per month, transfer wounds caused by the hand of another from an ally to yourself. Reverse wound penalties, except from those inflicted by your own hand.

Chief Dominion (Blood): You are treated as if benefiting from the highest qualifying wound penalty received this fight, even if said wound is healed.

The return of an awesome power. Gain strength from each wound inflicted upon both your allies and yourself. That the Forebear had this ability - to take on the wounds of his allies - kind of implies that he has at least some semblance of goodness in him, though it might pale in comparison to the fact he razed over a billion planets apparently. It does substantially increase the appeal of Forebear lore to me, particularly since I already find Blade EFBs to be the coolest in terms of aesthetic and powers in comparison to other EFBs (except for Ruling Ring, of course). Don't worry though guys, I'm still committed to the Trinity Special Advancement, particularly when we're so close to it.

Also, a serious shame that What Rains May Come does trigger on self-inflicted wounds. That's such a classic way for voters to increase their own power. Kill yourself for power is a tried and true strategy that should totally be a viable plan! :V Of course, that'd be too broken in terms of synergy between voter mindset and power-scaling so Rihaku could never unleash the dread powers of such a force. If What Rains May Come did allow self-inflicted wounds to boost our strength though, I know that I'd be the first guy to suggest getting every Form, including Form of Rage back and Final Form and start killing ourselves immediately at the beginning of battle to enhance the strength of the next activated Form as a result. A recursive loop of suicide and infinite power! Though we would have to train Hunger to react to killing himself with irrational amounts of anger to reliably enter Form of Rage so that might be difficult given his willingness to calmly kill himself for an advantage in combat.

Like this power a lot, particularly if we intend to fight multiple peiople at once during battle, since that just means that more we get hurt, the more dangerous we become. The Chief Dominion bonus is pretty rad, letting us heal the most dangerous wound and still benefit from it in combat! That's awesome and super-relevant; we could just chain heals and wounds to gain bonuses even if we recover from them, though the bonus would be capped to the highest amount of harm we'd suffered during a fight. I'd really want to pick this, given that it's so rare and can chain with Cut pretty well but the next power just captures me a lot more.

[ ] The Ring of Power - Arisen Blood (7 Arete, 3 picks)

Blood learns swiftly how best to be spilled.

While at full HP, benefit from the following:
+++++Protection
+++++Agi, Might, Wisdom (Combat)
All Attacks deal double damage, stacking multiplicatively
You are treated as if in a form with corporeal blood, even if you would otherwise not be.

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! Bloodwraith returns once more, now with less moral concerns and daughteru emotional harm! All of the sick Second Stage flavor with none of the Loyalty decreases! Bloodwraith 2.0 coming to a Hunger soon (tm)!

Seriously, seeing this thing is the reason for this mega-huge reaction from me. I loved Bloodwraith because it boosted our ghostly Second Stage back to relevance but it just wasn't a good option to take in All Along the Watchtower. Plus jacking Verschelengorge's blood even if it tacitly approved of it seemed like a dick move already without even considering the effect it would have on Letrizia's self-esteem. I have little interest in needlessly hurting the mental stability of young women, particularly when they are Asuka expies and would probably react badly to emotional harm in the long-run. I'd like Hunger to remain a cool father / uncle figure to her, so Bloodwraith just wasn't in the cards then sadly.

But now, we have a prime opportunity to get Bloodwraith again! It's all the power, with no moral concerns, at the low cost of 5 more Arete than its original option cost! Not an insignificant sum, but still well worth it in my opinion to elevate our Ghost Form back to its full glory! The aesthetics of Second Stage on our build were greatly harmed by us taking up Bloodslayer, though I still support the choice, essentially becoming a vestigial appendage on our otherwise interesting build and bringing it back to relevance is great. I'd love to become a spooky ghost Hunger that somehow still has blood coursing through its spiritual veins despite being made of ectoplasm.

That sounds super-sick and our ghostflame body may even become crimson in coloration! Edgy to be sure, but absolutely a benefit to aesthetics to me in the end. Remember how Unbound in Bleach Quest made our reishi color turn red and that was a feature of the build? We could have the same thing happen, transforming our spirit into an essence composed of both material and spiritual power in a cohesive whole elevated through the supreme power of Blood transformed into control over Essence. This would give us back the safety net of Second Stage, once more doubling our effective health bar while even giving the possibility of restoring our Form of Rage and making it more reliable (I'm reaching pretty hard for this one though)!

The sheer awesome of this compels me to vote for it. It's in the name of the option itself, Arisen Blood, aka Bloodwraith risen from the grave once more! How could I not vote for it?!

Also, talking about practical benefits, 'sides giving us a lot more leeway because our second form becomes useful again, in prime condtion, we deal double damage which stacks multiplicatively. Imagine Cut Through being twice as powerful, blade-winds not merely shredding reality with the same ease as a sword might part the gossamers of silk but completely annihilating it and leaving naught but oblivion in its wake. Our blood debuffs would be even more powerful, maybe letting us literally boil people alive in their own skin, tearing through their physical protections to simply destroy them from within. And that damage will stack over time as a result of it being a DoT effect!

Currently, our offensive power is already concentrated in burst-potential, so if we take Arisen Blood and strike the enemy while we're still at full-health, we could easily wreak devastation upon their forces in our initial advance. Diversifying is all well and good, but on the eve of the Inner Ring's apocalypse and this climatic clash of wills at the end of the Temple arc, it might just be best to leverage our already overwhelming power into an unassailable position of strength! Kill our enemies dead before the blue of the sky could reach their eyes, as Suizhen would put it. Though, in our case, it would be the blue of the Praxis and reality itself on our side!

In closing, vote for Arisen Blood! Vote for the aesthetic! Vote for the blood-red ghostflame! Vote for the practicality of double damage! Vote to win the temple!
....finally! Managed to write up 7445 words for my reaction and to argue for Arisen Blood (Bloodwraith 2.0)! That exceeds my highest previous word count for reactions in a day - 6161 words - by over a thousand words, so I'd call it mission accomplished! Hopefully, this will help to pay part of the 3.8 Arete cost necessary to take up Arisen Blood.

Nice change of pace for me to react to stuff just after it happens, let's me be more in the moment I find. Having to type this much takes up a huge amount of time though, been typing for like the last 3 hours, but Arisen Blood inspired me a lot! Inspired enough to write a reaction that's literally triple the word-count of Rihaku's update though, lol. I'm more confident I'll be able to make some headway into reacting to every story update now that I've got this mammoth out of the way, but that's a task for another day.

Now, time to catch up on the thread and discord, see what's the plan and what kind of thoughts are percolating in my fellow questers' minds.
 
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I think both options have a chance honestly, or they wouldn't be offered. I trust Hunger's judgement of the situation this time around, and if he feels that capitalizing immediately on the Azure Ring throwing the system into disarray is a risky but rewarding decision then the possibility the Temple will be in total control of the situation once we arrive is particularly low.

Still is a very dangerous endeavor, where time is of the essence and where we must hope to face as little opposition as possible and quickly free the Azure Ring so we can benefit from the finalized Crimson Flare boost while depowering their Soul Evocation.
 
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I think people are underestimating the immortals ability to respond even if we pick Cut Through here. This really doesn't seem to be much of a disruption. Hunger already alerted the Out Riders and his fight with Avecarn was in front of the Inner Temple, not in front of the room with the Ring. I know Hungers fast but his enemies likely are too if they dont just have teleporation magic and the Inner Temple housing about 10 million residents likely means it is incredible huge in size, so it's not like we can expect him to be anywhere near the Ring. That fight took some degree of time as well.

II think it's likely that the Inner Temple is already alerted to what Hunger is doing and making preparations in case Avecarn went down, preparations they likely have a lot of magical ability to back. I think people are taking the idea that we'll only have to deal with a meagre version of the Inner Temples are jumping the gun. What happens if we Cut Through and thats not the case? It's not like we're going to be affording another EFB next update, we'll probably be lucky if we can afford a Stance.

Edit: Even if we assume they don't have the ability to organize quickly, once we take the ring, that may very well do nothing too power them down in the immediate term, meaning we'll still have to fight our way through and deal with the coming after us.
From the reports we got, they were still talking about activating the Immortal Deployment Act and I think you are overstimating there ability to mobilize all there assets in a matter of minutes. There is an chain of command here and it takes time for it to get going. Like you said, the inner ring is an large place and it will take timeto gather all the immortals who might be with family or doing there own shit. Forment rebellion is the options that gives them that time.

And, the disruption we are talking about here is the Ring giving us all its spare power, it's possible that doing so might have fucked up the inner Temple somewhat.
 
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From the reports we got, they were still taking about activating the Immortal Deployment Act and I think you are overstimating there ability to mobilize all there assets in a matter of minutes. Like you said, the inner ring is an large place and it will take to gather all the immortals who might be with family or doing there own shit. Forment rebellion is the options that gives them that time.

Yes, but this is assuming that the Immortals aren't usually nearer to the ring then the Temple Entrance is, most Immortals don't have speed relative to Hunger,and that absolutely noone in that civilization on guard duty has the ability to rapidly redeploy personnel such as having access to Spatial magic. Keep in mind, they don't have to even get their faster then Hunger. Even if most Immortals are slower and they have no way to rectify this, They could their A) fast enough that Hunger is still busy dealing with the gaurds B) intercept us on our way out or C) rally around the exit so we have to face them massed up eventually.


Immortal capabilities, whether immediately taking the ring will cause their soul evocation to lessen in a relevant timeframe, and the layout of the temple are all big ??? so we shouldn't really take these assumptions for granted.

And, the disruption we are talking about here is the Ring giving us all its spare power, it's possible that doing so might have fucked up the inner Temple somewhat.

I'm not sure i'd trust this bit of speculation unless Rihaku confirmed it.
 
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Indeed, Cut Through would work for the best if we could run into solo Immortal, kill him for 4 Pick, and then chain that into another Immortal. Given the chaos, such outcome is possible.

Fact that we have GDS means that we can't take MDS+HDS+Rank, which is kinda sad. With that in mind, perhaps it would be better if Cut Through gang went with Rains or Arisen Power, as both offer great deal of combat power and can help us deal with fallout of high stakes fights.
 
Indeed, Cut Through would work for the best if we could run into solo Immortal, kill him for 4 Pick, and then chain that into another Immortal. Given the chaos, such outcome is possible.

Fact that we have GDS means that we can't take MDS+HDS+Rank, which is kinda sad. With that in mind, perhaps it would be better if Cut Through gang went with Rains or Arisen Power, as both offer great deal of combat power and can help us deal with fallout of high stakes fights.

Yeah, if Cut Through wins it's better to grab the biggest immediate power we can get in the hopes of farming ourselves into even greater power one relevant opponent at a time until we're out. Arisen Power is definitely the best choice if we can get the Arete. It gives us a fairly huge stat boost, makes our wraith form combat relevant again which greatly increases our survival chances due to having a second life, and the double damage is going to be super relevant for cutting down a solo immortal or someone similar before backup arrives. Damage is basically speed in this scenario.
 
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[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Feat: Shameless

[X] Cut
[X] Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come


At this point might as well approval vote (and yes I know that voting for both Cut and Rebellion is like voting for neither of those :V), either a more cautious tactic where we look to gather allies and a "no time like the present" push where we act before anyone can really realize why everything is falling apart (and now there's a freaking blood demon cutting through their ranks gaining momentum the more they try to hold him down) looks good to me. I'll almost certainly remove my support for cutting through unless What Rains May Come has at least a chance to win the race, but maybe people we'll come around with the option and there's still quite a bit of time.
 
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Oof, shame that Arisen Blood is so far behind; guess that's what I get for not checking the thread before committing to W O R D S. Would have thought the Bloodwraith aesthetic would draw in more questers, but now I do recall that like only 2 or 3 people voted for it - maybe people just don't care about Ghost Form. Oh well. I'm still pretty keen on Cut and that the thread is going for Feat: Shameless with another pick wouldn't be bad, my preference is for Dominion: War but I'd be fine with something else too.

If we end up spending no Arete here, I'd be super interested in trying to get some Praxis effects though. The King Stands Alone was awesome and I'd love to have more effects named after the Evocations on Ambition's charm tree.
 
Oof, shame that Arisen Blood is so far behind; guess that's what I get for not checking the thread before committing to W O R D S. Would have thought the Bloodwraith aesthetic would draw in more questers, but now I do recall that like only 2 or 3 people voted for it - maybe people just don't care about Ghost Form. Oh well. I'm still pretty keen on Cut and that the thread is going for Feat: Shameless with another pick wouldn't be bad, my preference is for Dominion: War but I'd be fine with something else too.

If we end up spending no Arete here, I'd be super interested in trying to get some Praxis effects though. The King Stands Alone was awesome and I'd love to have more effects named after the Evocations on Ambition's charm tree.
It's more that people don't think we'd have enough Arete. Farming 4 Arete is kind tough, and we don't want to enter debt if we are Cutting Through.
 
Yeah, if Cut Through wins it's better to grab the biggest immediate power we can get in the hopes of farming ourselves into even greater power one relevant opponent at a time until we're out. Arisen Power is definitely the best choice if we can get the Arete. It gives us a fairly huge stat boost, makes our wraith form combat relevant again which greatly increases our survival chances due to having a second life, and the double damage is going to be super relevant for cutting down a solo immortal or someone similar before backup arrives. Damage is basically speed in this scenario.
Arisen has an issue though, the stats are only relevant as long as we remain at full health and so suffer from any kind of attrition tactic by the Inner Temple residents. Also, while giving quickening to Wraith Form looks good on the table, it doesn't deal with the issue that most of our health (in the form of regen) comes from our Chief Dominion now and we can still expend it past the point of no return no matter which form we're in.

It essentially grants us a 1-Up if things go sour and we still need to be in the tick of the fight, and the added stats are certainly good if conditional, but I still think that What Rains May Come better suits a lightning strike operation where we're certainly going to be whittled down little by little as we near the Azure Ring. Getting stronger and stronger rather than weaker and weaker the more we continue our rampage through the Temple could almost literally save our life as we'll only end up facing a seriously strong foe after quite a number of lesser fights I think.

Plus, and this is quite relevant, it does not expend arete and as such lets us select a second strong pick from this hypothetically strong foe we will end up facing and also leaves us open for a panic buy if we seriously need a Stance.

Edit: Forgot to comment on the x2 damage (that I think is also conditional on us being at full health), and honestly Praxis is showing itself to be overkill against our opponents so that's another thing that would be nice to have but that I don't feel like we absolutely need for the moment.
 
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"...but scarce hours later they encountered a picturesque lake, freshwater glittering in the sun and spanning very nearly to the horizon."

guess who got lazy to finish the bob ross tutorial and do all the grass

 
[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Vigor Incarnate

Foment Rebellion has the higher chance of working. Vigor Incarnate because it's really good. I think a lot of people really overestimate how much small amounts of rank do for us, and also underestimate how good protection is. Remember, back when we first got Evening Sky, it allowed us to survive a fight against a superior opponent by tanking hits - that was because in the pre-Temple era, ++Protection was really good. Now it doesn't do much for us because we scaled like crazy and dumped Protection, but now we have the chance to make up for that.

And yes, I'm aware that feats are rarer and we can get Vigor Incarnate at any time, however, we're about to go into the final battle of the Temple. If there was ever a time to completely ignore everything but immediate power, that time is now. So, whether something is easier or harder to get is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is survival, which 11 Protection is great for. The extra Might and Charisma is icing on the cake.
 
Foment Rebellion has the higher chance of working. Vigor Incarnate because it's really good. I think a lot of people really overestimate how much small amounts of rank do for us, and also underestimate how good protection is. Remember, back when we first got Evening Sky, it allowed us to survive a fight against a superior opponent by tanking hits - that was because in the pre-Temple era, ++Protection was really good. Now it doesn't do much for us because we scaled like crazy and dumped Protection, but now we have the chance to make up for that.
That was before the era of Hunger responding to an arm through the gut with a "nice, guess I gotta flex" and trapping it there. :V

Still, while Crimson Flare does give Hunger a tremendous amount of survivability, adding that much amount of Protection would be a tremendous combat buff. "All that for a drop of blood" gets quite a different amount of flair when you can instantly regenerate you body weight twice over!

The reason I'm not voting for it is because I think that increasing Rank will make Hunger just comprehensively better at what he needs to do next update (if Rebellion wins), and that the 0.325 added to Guile and Crimson Flare are almost overkill for the current situation. And we need that overkill, because we don't know how strong the Immortals are and they surely won't kindly line-up so we can beat them one by one like the good exp-bags they should be.

Want to know what would be even more overkill? World-Defeating Stance gives 0.2 Rank, increased by Uttermost to 0.325, and I see no reason why that shouldn't contribute to Crimson Flare. Now, how many foes would we face that are able to deal with a 7.65 Chief Dominion? Avecarn was Rank 6.5, so worst-case scenario (not really, but above that and Cutting Through right now would be a suicide mission in my opinion) the Immortals will be at 7.5 and we would still out-rank them where it matters (Crimson Flare and Guile are the main reasons we managed to deal with Avecarn so easily, keeping both of them relevant is very important).

Let's say World-Defeating Stance doesn't interest the majority though, well in that case there's Mage-Defeating for covering up our vulnerabilities, or we could wait for future picks we gain from winning a social or combat challenge, or even get Vigor Incarnate soon after we have benefited from the increased Rank to recruit some rebels! I'd really like to remain flexible for the moment, and see exactly what we will need rather than committing our resources to a defensive buff already.
 
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Ugh, I really don't want more stances. I understand we're in a situation where immediate power is the only priority, which is why I'm not going to oppose another stance if we get the chance for one. But I'm really sick of all these sword and ring options.

Especially because I suspect that if we get another component for All-Defeating Stance, then a lot of posters are going to advocate for rushing straight for Trinity without getting anything else, and then shooting straight for ADS, and from there Ruling Ring. I'd really like to pick up some interesting mid-Arete upgrades like Philosopher's Wreath, Pearlescence, or Azure Moon, ect, but the more stances we have the more power the only EFBs faction has. I feel like a lot of cool options get passed up because they're not EFBs, and therefore in theory "less efficient."
 
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