- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Cut
[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion
-[X] War
[X] Feat: Shameless
[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion
-[X] War
[X] Feat: Shameless
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
We would only be at 7.35 for the purpose of using our blood domain! I don't think that will make greater difference than +++++++++++ Protection. Imagine the multiplicative value of Protection to Hunger's effective health points. +Progression blood advancements are simply more efficient and better than the alternatives.
Our primary attack vector still remains Cut Through and our weakness, our shitty defense. Let's fix that for the increadibly small cost of 2 arete!
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- Location
- Italy
Considering the exponential scale of rank, only 7.35 would actually be a notable increase against the sort of opponents we'll end up facing in the Temple (we would be close to exceeding an Avecarn level opponent by 1 whole Rank, and there's the possibility that Avecarn even had quite an high Rank for his standing). And again, saving for Stances and future picks which will quickly arrive considering the situation we're currently in.
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Hah, Shameless is in Gisena's colors. Nice.
I think we may have been overestimating the value of human-comparable stats in high-end social combat. Without any real investment in converting people, we won't be able to.
This sucks now, but it's going to be worse when it's Catherine of Amarlt inside of Procyon we have to Cut Through instead of talking down. Consider this our wake-up call. Not that we necessarily have to counterbalance now with the seizure of the Ring a stone's throw away. But I propose we seriously consider focusing mental stats and non-combat abilities with our non-Arete picks after the Temple Conquest sequence is over.
I think we may have been overestimating the value of human-comparable stats in high-end social combat. Without any real investment in converting people, we won't be able to.
This sucks now, but it's going to be worse when it's Catherine of Amarlt inside of Procyon we have to Cut Through instead of talking down. Consider this our wake-up call. Not that we necessarily have to counterbalance now with the seizure of the Ring a stone's throw away. But I propose we seriously consider focusing mental stats and non-combat abilities with our non-Arete picks after the Temple Conquest sequence is over.
Mechanically, I suppose it makes sense. Knowing the moment you've lost the social battle is a tactical benefit from G-DS I pointed out myself and in this case he learned early. As a player reading the update it's shit though: the thread assembles the selling points, the charisma and other social stats, tactics for the encounter and strategies for the campaign and then the MC doesn't even attempt the plan.
First he left the party face and his spy behind which shows a lack of commitment to infiltration. "Find me later" he says when he plans to be inside the impenetrable Inner Temple hundreds of miles of hostile territory away. Then: Rrargh! your civilisation must end! Perfunctory attempt at a bribe. SORD.
My reaction to that was "Hunger is an unsubtle thug incapable of being more whatever his stats say, if he's like that after a social boost, his company up til now must have been hellish. How can we get Hunger killed so that his companions are free of remittance based mind control slavery."
The realisation that lying won't work needs to be in the text of the update.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Reread the description of the ability. It doesn't say anything about being limited to having no allies. We can choose to 1v1 if it's useful or fight with allies if it's not. The rank capping effect also doesn't depend on fighting 1v1, we just have to be holding a sword.
As always, I prefer (Hunger) to take the risk himself, rather than embroiling our non-vanguard protected allies in combat with immortals. I also much prefer the chance of us only catching one to two immortals guarding the ring, rather than needing to pray the allies we convert are worth bringing to the fight.
If we commit to bringing our friends we may have a higher chance of winning on a whole, but if we roll low on the subversion it could end up our group vs literally their whole society. In a worst case scenario I don't want our allies around, especially since it's Aeira's first (real) day on the job. I don't want her to join the red-shirt army!
[X] Cut
That it's thematically in line with stopping all the dithering is just a bonus!
---
But what powerups do we need to succeed here?
I don't want to hold anything back so it's just a matter of determining which offers the most power at this exact moment, rank or stats.
Tough choice, but I'm going to assume the Arete gated +progression boosted blood perk is better than a rank upgrade from a 2 pick, and follow that with yet more blood.
I do like the thinking of people trying to boost the blood ability into the 8+ sphere of high rank, but we aren't there yet, which leads me to:
[X] Vigor Incarnate
[X] Fierce Quickening
May the Accursed have mercy on my soul.
If we commit to bringing our friends we may have a higher chance of winning on a whole, but if we roll low on the subversion it could end up our group vs literally their whole society. In a worst case scenario I don't want our allies around, especially since it's Aeira's first (real) day on the job. I don't want her to join the red-shirt army!
[X] Cut
That it's thematically in line with stopping all the dithering is just a bonus!
---
But what powerups do we need to succeed here?
I don't want to hold anything back so it's just a matter of determining which offers the most power at this exact moment, rank or stats.
Tough choice, but I'm going to assume the Arete gated +progression boosted blood perk is better than a rank upgrade from a 2 pick, and follow that with yet more blood.
I do like the thinking of people trying to boost the blood ability into the 8+ sphere of high rank, but we aren't there yet, which leads me to:
[X] Vigor Incarnate
[X] Fierce Quickening
May the Accursed have mercy on my soul.
- Location
- Philippines
I'm not sure if it's already been raised before, but I remember it being mentioned somewhere.
Note that Hunger is already pretty strong for his Rank. To the point that being a Ranklet is actually what's holding Hunger back from fighting peer-level opponents.
However, note that just because Hunger is strong for his rank does not mean that farming +Rank Opportunities become easier.
All else equal:
Higher Stats = Easier Fights
Easier Fights = Less 'Rad' (impactful shit for really big feats) = Lower +Rank Opportunities.
Sure, there are builds that would make the disparity in rank mean less. But that also raises the converse that builds exist that are meant to exploit Rank.
+Rank will at least ensure that we've got more narrative weight and, at this juncture, would help us regardless of whether we want to exploit stats or exploit rank. For no Arete cost even. And it's a one-time pick because from my understanding Feats aren't repeatable. Things are just not as Rad the second time you do it.
More Rank here means a bigger boost to Blood Casting too, and a bigger well of Pressure to make use of in case our stats aren't up enough.
BloodStat enhancements will still be here in the next vote. Feats won't be.
210 words for what it matters.
Note that Hunger is already pretty strong for his Rank. To the point that being a Ranklet is actually what's holding Hunger back from fighting peer-level opponents.
However, note that just because Hunger is strong for his rank does not mean that farming +Rank Opportunities become easier.
All else equal:
Higher Stats = Easier Fights
Easier Fights = Less 'Rad' (impactful shit for really big feats) = Lower +Rank Opportunities.
Sure, there are builds that would make the disparity in rank mean less. But that also raises the converse that builds exist that are meant to exploit Rank.
+Rank will at least ensure that we've got more narrative weight and, at this juncture, would help us regardless of whether we want to exploit stats or exploit rank. For no Arete cost even. And it's a one-time pick because from my understanding Feats aren't repeatable. Things are just not as Rad the second time you do it.
More Rank here means a bigger boost to Blood Casting too, and a bigger well of Pressure to make use of in case our stats aren't up enough.
BloodStat enhancements will still be here in the next vote. Feats won't be.
210 words for what it matters.
From Avecarn's blurb:
If the old Marshall was the Overkill Solution for the Council, there is very little in the Inner Ring which can threaten Hunger.
- Location
- a place
That doesn't follow at all. Sending a Abrams Tank to deal with a guy with a shotgun holding up a convience store would be overkill, but that doesn't imply a single Abrams tank is anywhere near the upper limit of the US fighting capabilities.
Also, for what it's worth, Rihaku told us Rebellions straight up has higher odds of succeeding.
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Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Hmm... would a marshalled defense, prep time, and a pick compensate for our allies coming with us? Probably not. Ultimately, Formenting has an explicitly higher chance of success for the entire Temple (or at least taking the Ring) and this, for me, offsets the risk of complication. We've taken down a High Marshall, will steadily grow in power from here, and we subvert any attempts at deception automatically. Thus, might as well take advantage of the fact that we've weakened them and the fact that we've taken options that make it difficult for them to scry or plan against us. Forment Rebellion, SAVE, and enjoy.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Gisena just got a powerup though! Give her some screentime to show off! More seriously trying to take on a whole civilization by ourselves when we have options to gather support and allies to back us up is just recklessly dangerous. They're our friends and allies not dead weight.
- Location
- Italy
Even then, while I love it, I'm also painfully aware of how rare that pick is going to be so we shouldn't be counting on it appearing too much. And if we ever pick it in the future, a 0.325 Rank increase now certainly doesn't mean we won't end up fighting foes who outrank us anyway. Increasing Rank in our current situation would just be highly convenient in my opinion, cause we're both betting that the chips will fall down just the right way for a rebellion and that we'll gain some useful combatants out of it (and Rank will help with far more with stacking the dice in our favor than just a slight increase in our already kinda high Charisma will).
Also, while added Protection would certainly be useful, our current strategy seems to be forcing our opponents to renounce any clever strategies with a 7.0 Rank at spotting those thanks to GDS (7.35 if we pick the feat) and then to count on Praxis to bypass their defenses for a single overwhelming attack. We can then let them bleed out thanks to our Chief Dominion while recovering from any damage taken by exposing ourselves and again, increasing our potency by almost half a rank will considerably help with both of those things.
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Too spooky for me, I'll give her screen time to lambaste us for not waiting up a single second before freeing the ring on our own!
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
She can't sass us if we're dead! Don't underestimate immortals!
...Avecarn was literally recalled from retirement.
That implies that no one in current active duty is as capable as he was, otherwise they could have reassigned temporarily to deal with Hunger.
- Location
- Italy
I'm kinda surprised that people voting for Cutting Through aren't even looking at What Rains May Come honestly. Are people dismissing it because they think most of the gain would be the once-a-month effect which is not relevant right now? Because the possibility of getting stronger the more wound you're dealt while possessing an almost-instant regen you can activate and suppress at any moment opens up a lot of risky but extremely effective tactics.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
He was a retired outrider. The immortals are explicitly the strongest inner residents whose powers are so valuable they're given an infinite lifespan in order to better protect the ring. There's no way they're weaker than gramps was.
Cut is too risky, even if immortals are only equal in strength to Avecorn if we run into more than one at a time we'll die, especially if one of them has a soul evocation that's a worse matchup for us.
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