LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
If we get King Stands Alone later, opposing Rank ceases to become relevant against us.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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- Earth
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What we need to do now is to take the option that increases our survival chance as well as increasing the chances of pulling an successfull rebellion. Vigor incarnate does that better than Rank imo.
We will have ample opportunities to do Feats worthy of Rank since we still haven't faced the immortals. Closing an hole in our build is simply too damn important before we face them. Our pathetic protection is something they can take advantage of, we are still very weak to poison and diseased based shit. Let's mitigate that.
But then you need to stand alone... do you really want to render Gisena irrelevant?
This is not a popularity contest between Vigor Incarnate and Rank, but discussion between two builds.
In particular, not spending means that we can save Arete and get some Stance to go along with Rank while Vigor has make do with itself.
- Location
- Pindorama
Charisma won't help us find better allies or help us make better decisions; while Rank will. And it will hep us in combat and negotiation too. Saying Vigor is the strictly superiors option is erroneous in my opinion.
And we have gotten only 5 feat opportunities this entire quest. They are not in any way common. banking on them appearing again, especially when they'd have to compete with Blood Advancements is misguided. We should take it now so we aren't lacking later.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
She can stand alone with us! Nullity means never having to listen to magic powers!
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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Sure, Rank is an good option. But to me this feels simple enough.
It's choice between closing an hole in our build Vs RANK.
5.35 rank is strictly inferior to 5 Rank with 11 protection I think. Our Rank would simply have much more to work with!
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- Location
- Pindorama
Meh, I don't think of Protection as a hole; or rather, saying our protection is a hole is a bit late thanks to Uttermost. I think that Rank is a better invest than 11 protection, because Rank does many things that stats don't. If compared to the Rank of Avecarn; our won Rank could have been considered a hole too! I think taking the limited option is better than something available literally always.
That's not how it works... You can't "stand alone" if someone is right next to you!
I guess that even Gisena gang can't resist allure of SORD..
That's very silly way of looking at this. Protection does nothing to improve our Bloodcasting, which is currently our main combat ability - Rank, especially with Stance giving additional 0.2 Rank, will massively increase both our Bloodcasting and our general combat, social and so on.
And, of course, there's a simple fact that Feat is unique pick while Vigor Incarnate isn't - we can only get one of them at later date!
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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The protection debuff from Uttermost has already been dealt with by Eldeldross. So dunno what you are talking about unless I am missing something. And, yes low protection will remain an hole unless we take something like WDS or Dreadnought's Bearing + Iron Curtain, in order to turn Protection meaningless, you need something to take its place. In the former it's the power of ruin while in the later our constitution.
Our low Rank would have been considered an hole sure, if we didn't have Cut Through to work around it. What we need more is +++++++++++Prot to last longer while Cut Through does its job.
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I can't omakestorm today, sorry. I'll try to muster something up, but it'll probably be a pretty modest offering at best.
For what it is worth, none of today's builds actually terribly disappoint me, which is a fine feeling.
Do we though? Or do we need more RANK to speed us up and lower the speed of our enemies, both directly and through Blood casting, to make Cut Through that much more relevant.
Remember, you don't need to tank if you can just Cut Through an attack!
DkArthas
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We can only Cut Through physical attacks not spiritual or mental and it's not perfect. Trying to Cut Through mere attacks also implies we are on the defensive and not using that time to harm our enemy! Better to get far superior defenses to tank while we Cut Through the one attacking!
But if you are really worried about mental and spiritual attacks then SAVEing and getting MDS is clearly a superior option..
- Location
- Italy
Why are we worried about magical vectors of attack if we're waiting for Gisena to come to our side? Better to improve our blood buffs so we can boost both her, Aeira and whoever we might recruit more effectively. This isn't going to be a solo effort if we plan for a Rebellion.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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Why wouldn't I want to get both MDS and Vigor incarnate!? 2 arete is a very small price to pay for +++Str, +++Con, ++Cha, +++++++++++Protection. Add the ability to nullify magical shit to that and I would say we will finally be ready to take on the Immortals.
And, we can get MDS anytime, isn't that what you told me previously? We will probably have enough arete to get it by the time we face The Immortals..
Because Gisena can't effectively protect us against magical attack that she can't see. The fight against the Librarian pretty clearly shows, she simply can't protect us completely. We nearly lost against magic shit despite her being present.
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Shame, well I will just do a reaction and try to prepare something for tomorow. MDS should be prioritised.
Because MDS is very good in general. 5x power of ruin agains magic, great passive defence and also Curse mitigation
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Only full HP I think, doesn't matter though since we're at full HP again when we enter second form so we'd still benefit.
- Location
- Italy
Been a long time since that fight and, if I remember correctly, Hunger wasn't expecting him to be hostile and got punished because of it.
MDS is good and wouldn't mind taking it, though I'm still hoping for a reappearance of A King Stands Alone which would do part of its (and most of Hero Defeating Stance's) job already. Still, in both cases the better thing to do should be to conserve Arete for now, that's why I'm favoring a Rank 0.325 increase over Vigor.
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Because you just spent Arete needed to grab MDS!
Would merely being somewhat more durable make that much of a difference? Being able to fight at 0.5 Rank more sounds many times more impressive, to say nothing of long term implication of building up Rank after picking up Crimson Flare..
You can't get it if you don't have Arete for it, obviously! That's why SAVE is the best way to go about it.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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I am voting for Forment rebellion so that potentially gives us enough time to get 7 arete or even more picks for successful making people defect! Iridescence still remains an good choice for magic defense and it only cost 2 arete if we can't get enough for MDS! And it's only .35 more rank with just Shameless! Even without MDS, we would still get +++++++++++ protection! It's not just "somewhat" more durable! It's an massive increase...
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How is that only? Remember that Rank works of hyperexponential scale, so going from Rank 7 casting to Rank 7.35 casting is a gigantic upgrade for just two picks. And then you add in 0.2 external Rank and we are at 7.55 - which enters Unshattered levels of power..