Well. Given that apparently Renaissance Woman might not actually be safer overall, my vote is officially for sale, if anyone is still interested in vote trading at this juncture. I'll go with the best offer if I receive any.
 
Vote Ring! or Vote Gisena! both seem pretty good, if not as powerful as All-Defeating.

We're looking at a more social influence route now. The Ring wants to leverage Hunger's capacity to replace their power. Strong enough to threaten coming in there and taking it, but with a great enough gift to make them interested. This is a good old Tyrant's path, my way or the high-way. It also opens bright new paths to empower our allies, who are much less concerned than our enemies are about being in Hunger's power.

Pick that to be Sauron as the Gift-Giver


On the other hand, Gisena's advancement as the Maiden allows her to pretty trivially handle Grandpa, and get us inside. Once inside, we'll have to contend with the council members who would have been the senior to the now-hypothetical Selune. These august figures will require quite a bit of persuasion and politics before we can make our go at the Ring. Could be a heist, could be a revolution.

Pick this to be the Brawn to Gisena's Brain.


Risk-wise, the Ring is favored in the fight but not guaranteed. Gisena gets us in for sure, but doesn't guarantee much else. The Apocryphal days look to be running out if we stay inside for long, and the Ruling contest is uncertain without Crimson Flare.

If you're more scared of Grandpa than the Ruling contest, pick Gisena. If you're more scared of GisenaThe Apocyphal Curse at 80% of it's true power, then pick the ring.
 
Hmmm.

Since i'm pretty fine with either choice especially since the Ring leads into great party boosts for everyone plus healing our giant robot buddy, i'll make the same offer as Formal AI.
 
Ring is relatively cheap(24 arete) and we can have slots for two stances. Guile+Magic are a good investment and after the Trinity EFB we can take the stance. We will probably be dead due to not enough scaling but this is the game of Rihaku. He will write and we will despair
 
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Self-defeating stance too strong.

Honestly, i have no clue what to vote now. I feel lost.
If we can just clear the hurdle presented by Avecarn, we'll have a bigger carrot to tempt the Inner Residents with. Convincing Avecarn ourselves would also gives us picks for overcoming a social challenge, potentially even Rank if it's an impressive enough feat. Whereas just letting Gisena handle things is going to reduce the amount of rewards we get from the Ring, not just here but elsewhere. It scales with the challenges overcome, and things are less challenging when you're being carried - literally or metaphorically - by a companion.
 
Well. Given that apparently Renaissance Woman might not actually be safer overall, my vote is officially for sale, if anyone is still interested in vote trading at this juncture. I'll go with the best offer if I receive any.
I'll take you up on that. Your vote for Crimson Flare in return for one vote in the future. I'd like to reserve a veto, but will argue and generally shitpost in favor of the option of your choice, valid through consolidation until the options you invoked it for are no longer being offered.
 
[X] Renaissance Woman

both of these options are lame compared to ADS and buying a stance to supplement Ring is another 7 arete so, you know, whatever

might retract this vote entirely
 
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Well, I think I will bow out of the rest of this vote, can't really vote or argue for options I dislike, emphasizing a play style I hate, so see you on the other side.
 
3 votes with no veto comrade! Vote for the Ring!
2k words in reactions and one vote with magic(PW,RK) veto. Vote for Ring
I'll take you up on that. Your vote for Ring in return for one vote in the future; I'd like to reserve a veto, but will argue and generally shitpost in favor of the option of your choice, valid through consolidation until the options you invoked it for aren't being offered.
I really doubt I'll get better offer than these from the other side at this point, so the pact is sealed.

[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
 
Well, I think I will bow out of the rest of this vote, can't really vote or argue for options I dislike, emphasizing a play style I hate, so see you on the other side.
I offer a simple transaction for your soul vote. What is the price to vote Ring?

Since i'm pretty fine with either choice especially since the Ring leads into great party boosts for everyone plus healing our giant robot buddy, i'll make the same offer as Formal AI.
I offer the same as I did to formalAl:
2k words in reactions and one vote with magic(PW,RK) veto. Vote for Ring

EDIT: If I have given two vote and both of them are called in the same time what are the rules - first one that called it wins?
 
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C'mon, we could've played the rest of this dungeon on easy mode. Just 'cause we started w/dark souls bosses doesn't mean we've got to do this on dark souls difficulty, y'know?
Now iunno what to vote for
 
C'mon, we could've played the rest of this dungeon on easy mode. Just 'cause we started w/dark souls bosses doesn't mean we've got to do this on dark souls difficulty, y'know?
Ironically, playing the dungeon on easy mode seems like it would screw up our progression. We need Normal Difficulty at least in order to gain picks from things properly.
 
So I have more writing on shaping here. This time it is on mastery and it still feels a bit incomplete, but that is mostly because I have imagined and come up with so much detail on this system that it feels really hard to write it down, keep it organized, and include every last detail. I would really appreciate it if people were to share their impressions with me.

Shaping, Mastery​

Mastery of the art of Shaping carries both significance and power that cannot be understated. The division between a master and an adept is like to the difference between man and god, or between mortal and immortal if that id the context you live within. The step from adepthood to mastery is a qualitative transformation not unlike one that a cultivator might experience when breaking through, though unlike with cultivation stages there is no real hard difference or barrier between adepthood and mastery. Achieving mastery is generally not a matter of breaking through one's limits, but of realizing that the long process of learning and practicing shaping has made those limits fall away.

The achievement of mastery is often referred to as awakening because in truth it is little more than a shift in perspective that allows a near infinite expansion in the capabilities of a shaper. This is something that can generally only happen when an individual has reached the limits of what they can do under mastery. There are two elements to this shift in perspective. First, the realization of the effects that practicing shaping has had upon one's own shape and opening one's eyes to the newly inherent functions of one's mind and body. The second, is a shift in the senses that allows one to directly see, hear, touch, taste, smell, or otherwise directly sense and learn shapes.

Both of these realizations dramatically expand a shaper's abilities. From the changes to the shape of their self a shaper often finds that they have gained various new abilities. There are more passive expansions in capability such as enhancements to their mind and body, from gaining entirely new senses, increases of ones attributes, even up through the total transformation of their being into something completely different. On the other hand, Master Shaper's often gain some kind of active innate shaping abilities that can take various forms from simple paracausal abilities, it the imposition of a specific law or code as natural law in a defined area. These abilities range in scope, but are always significant in power and are always in some way related the shapes that a shaper learned up till they achieved mastery with a particular emphasis on their first learned shape and their most used and studied shape.

The transformations of a Master Shaper's body, mind, and being are manifold and strange. On the more moderate end of the scale a Master Shaper tends to end up as what ever species they were before but significantly better in most ways (the reason for the enhancements varies and is often not sourced in alterations of biology though just as frequently it is). Pushing a bit further new Master Shapers tend to end up similar in appearance to what their prior race was but end up different enough to the degree that they would be classified as a different species. On the low end this can be little more than a completely new genetic structure, but into the middle and high ends you can end up with some strange stuff such as bodies formed out of law or phenomenon (fire, water, wind, justice, emotions, etc), bodies formed of possessed objects(bodies made of scraps of books or newspapers, bodies made of junk, bodies of armor), bodies formed in ways that shouldn't be possible(a human form made entirely out of wings, feathers, eyes, and fire, an human formed ecosystem made of scraps of books on which live self-writing stories). At the greatest degree of transformation a new Master Shaper may abandon their body entirely becoming something non-physical such as a code of laws or a society, a story or dream that gets stuck in peoples heads and drives them to proliferate it, a series of prophecies that are unconditionally believed. Though it must be stated that most of those masters that fall into the last category typically underwent some kind of ritualistic behavior (that may be an actual shaping ritual in some cases) to prompt such a transformation. Master Shaper can truly end up as anything and even more miraculously, retain their selfhood and consciousness no matter what they may end up as.

There is one other means to achieve mastery of shaping aside from awakening. That is through initiation by a mentor when one fulfills the requisite requirements. Typically, not seen out side of the great schools of shaping, initiations both induce a transition into mastery and lock a shaper into following the path of the initiation. Much like with awakening one cannot be initiated until one has reached the limits of adepthood. When a mentor judges that one of their students or disciples has met the requisite conditions and puts them through a rite of initiation. If they successfully pass through the rite then their mentor will welcome them to the ranks of the Master Shapers of their particular school or tradition. Often mentors subtly prepare their students for the rite throughout their entire apprenticing as an extension of the rite itself and to ensure their knowledge is compatible with the rite.

The are a variety of difference and advantages between awakening and initiation. The biggest one is that an initiation can be forced as long as one meets the conditions for it. Whereas with awakening, even if one meet the conditions to awaken they cannot force it, they have to have the realization on their own. Trying to force an awakening is more likely to prevent it from ever happening than to help. This can result in it often taking much longer for someone to awaken to mastery than to achieve via initiation.

However, there are many advantages awakening has over initiation. For one, with awakening one does not require a mentor, and is not bound to the same or a similar path to their mentor if they have one. Second, because of the amount of time that it generally takes to awaken, those who awaken generally take to being a Master much more quickly and naturally than those who do not. Awakeners also have less standardized and more unique innate abilities as masters than initiates. It is also generally safer to awaken as the consequences of a botched initiation cannot be overstated. All this being said, there is much to say for just being able to grasp mastery in one's hands as soon as they qualify for it and most of these differences fade with time before the boundless power of mastery.

Innate abilities aside, mastery holistically increases the capabilities of a shaper to practice there are. Where before one might only know three shapes and would have difficulty stringing them together in a reasonable timeframe outside of several specific combinations, after one can write and paint, and draw as they please over the canvas that is reality. It is like the difference between being in the process of learning the letters of a language and being an accomplished writer looking into learning other languages or even into making a conlang for use in later works. Whether in speed, consistency, or knowledge the ability to directly sense and learn the shape of reality allows a shaper to quickly overcome their previous efforts once they achieve mastery. It is at this stage of proficiency that a shaper may finally delve into the taboo of directly meddling with the existing fabric of reality as they can see it and put it back together after they take it apart as long as they are paying attention anyways. This also allows a shaper to begin breaking free of the bindings of the laws of reality and to begin studying the principles upon which they are based (out of character I make the distinction between law and principle. Law is how a universe actually functions, whereas principle is the basis on from which the law stems. For example two cultivation universes might have wildly different, completely incompatible laws and systems, however ultimately both will subscribe to the principle of cultivation in their structure). Master Shaper grow ever towards ascension from a simply powerful godlike entity, to something nearly incomprehensible in scope and power, though even this pales before even the freshest of ascendant Grand Shapers.
 
Alas.

The argument that Arete miners intended to buy Ring is a strong one. Very persuasive.

The argument that Gisena minimizes short-term risk is a strong one. Not Dying next update is sufficient so long as the pattern always holds true.

The argument that Ring allows negotiation is somewhat weaker; we can negotiate using capabilities that we have access to but have not yet unlocked.

The argument that PW unlocks a recursive loop is most appealing to me right now. However, PW requires seven Arete and the aquiver is heavily overdrawn imo. Between this vote & Cut Through it isn't clear how much gas is left in the tank.

I'm leaning to RW, but I'll be happy to see either option. Any Crimson voters want to buy my vote? I'll go Crimson for any 1 marker. Marker details: one veto, applicable for anything except Philosopher's Wreath.
 
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