Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm. Reversion seems to be well within the balliwick of Edeldross. Could work to make that our first Pseudo-Grace? Nothing says "remorseful murderer" quite like resurrecting the dead!
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Hmm. Reversion seems to be well within the balliwick of Edeldross. Could work to make that our first Pseudo-Grace? Nothing says "remorseful murderer" quite like resurrecting the dead!
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
See, the last time I tried to overturn the social order, it ended poorly, so I'll try to do it better this time! Now, what's the current unemployment rate like, High Marshall?
Actually, you know, I suppose we could just ask him about the Call of the Ring? And in fact, thinking about it, we probably should!
We approach Avecarn with a very simple approach: we ask him wtf is going on with the Temple.
It's simple: dig for more information, about the whole thing with the False Moon and the Temple, and ask him to clear things up. Like, admit that he felt a call that drew him here, but he's able to fight it off... But now, now it's got his curiosity. He wants to know why this is happening. What is the thing that sent the call? And why did it send this call? And what the heck does the civilization have trapped in here, that it is sending out a call?
If Avecarn has a good explanation for what is going on, good excuses and everything, then he'd certainly just share that wouldn't he? In case it might get the R-Type to reconsider.
And the best part is, not only does this get us some information on the Temple, it's also information that a person would be willing to share in order to get an outsider to back off and stop attacking.
Seriously. Just... Approach and ask questions. Express curiosity.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
If anyone would know, it'd be the Administration. This shit is literally in his soul. Gisena's sincere curiosity should be a great help if he's at all amenable.
Edit: Shame he's too strong to try to spare easily in a fight, he's be great at picking up the pieces.
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- Location
- Brazil
According to Rihaku's earlier posts, i feel like something like Reversion would be quite difficult. Most of what Hunger can make as pseudo-graces seem to be physycal buffs, and unless we grab a major multiplier, like linear halo or Philosoper's wreath, i doubt that we can make something on the scale of Reversiona ny time soon. We might be able to find a way to combine our Edeldross with our blood enchancing, however, which might be quite useful in convincing people.
But at this point i'm 99% sure that diplomacy is impossible without guile stance.
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Assuming we can convince/defeat him, we might be able to get Stranglethorn from the old guy. Perhaps even Gardener's Hallow, but we don't have that much Arete. Are we going to spend enough time in the Temple afterwards for the timeskip power to kick in? I don't think we want to stay for more than a month or two, but I'm not sure about the scale at which Stranglethorn operates.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
people only have so much motivation to write and produce Arete; it's a finite resource. If we spend 14 on Stances here, it will be easier to justify more later, and some people are opposed to following a stance-based build path.
Ring also gives much more power than stances once we finish the Temple.
Staying long enough for Stranglethorn to produce a diplomatic victory would make me concerned about the state of Letrizia's family without her Armament
Congratulations on 800 pages Rihaku!
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- Location
- Brazil
The main counter-argument is that we need to live to grow strong. If we hadn't the risks of the temple, and so many risks to our life, we would have a much lesser need to spend arete.
Even if putting our life is danger is seemingly a pratical way to spam-generate arete.
I think open mindedness is a good tactic. If we can get a dialogue rolling with questions he would be on the back foot answering. If he poses hard questions to us, sidestep by asking tough questions back; ask about the nature of whats going on, why do they start by trying to kill the folk wandering through. Why was our first 'invitation' on the near-dying breath of a man? why couldn't it have been his first?
Bog down the conversation when he asks us things we don't want to, or can't answer. Always circle back to we're a mercenary, circle back to we are looking for work. He only has to bite once.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes, I regret our strategic decisions so far, but they aren't subject to change with this vote and I want to look towards the next fights and risks after the Temple as well.
- Location
- Brazil
Constant risk of death is a great motivation!
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Oh! I was worried that whatever brainstorming Hunger did for his democratization plan would have burned away, but that happened afterwards. Convenient, 'cause that's so not my field.
- Location
- Brazil
I mean, unless we grab the Ruling Ring, our risks after the temple are...non-existent. We heavily outscale the apocryphal curse, Ber would be a easy fight. Unless we do something really stupid, it's not like we are in need for immense power outside the temple. The only major source of risk would be if we entered conflict with one of the powers of the inner sphere.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Lateral thinking suggests that avoiding the obvious battle (lying to someone 2 ranks higher) is optimal. Perhaps an open truth (we wouldn't be concerned with them at all save for the fact that they're torturing a sophont) could work. Suggesting (truthfully?) that we'd be willing to collaborate on harm-minimition and that we're a non-trivial threat to him (why take the risk of your grandchildren losing their grandparent when you can help someone with noble goals instead).
Alternately, Hunger might play on his true core motivation: vengeance against the Hidden Masters that so thoroughly ruined him. Perhaps we can leverage the fact Hunger cares more about revenge against a different foe than anything else to persuade Avecarn that we're a poor opponent to have, and a much better opportunity to stubborn.
Alternately, Hunger might play on his true core motivation: vengeance against the Hidden Masters that so thoroughly ruined him. Perhaps we can leverage the fact Hunger cares more about revenge against a different foe than anything else to persuade Avecarn that we're a poor opponent to have, and a much better opportunity to stubborn.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Another chance at Gardener's Hallow? Don't tempt me, I might want to switch to maximally safe! Although we could likely also afford GH within one update if we got Crimson Flare, given the amount of fanwork that's been going around.
If there's even a sliver of possibility of that, I may end up not wanting Crimson Flare + Stance. Gardener's Hallow is worth a little risk, we have Chief Dominion now so it'd be boosted to the max -
hold on.
Chief dominion would have boosted GH considerably. What would Crimson Flare do to it???
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We've been told it's very unlikely we'll be able to outscale a full-strength Armament by grinding in the Voyaging Realm. That, alongside the Apocryphal Curse, the Doom of the Tyrant, and our Geas task mean that the major source of risk you mention is actually something that deserves very serious concern from us.
I think options like Crimson Flare help out with that risk by increasing how far we can climb within the Voyaging Realm and making our progression outside it smoother.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Aurora, CO
- Pronouns
- Any/All
I am a failure! I have utterly lost the spark for the idea I had before. I can only hope that maintaining the Quester Magics sheet (still being updated!) has provided some small modicum of Arete, even though it involves no actual creative achievement on my part.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
the character sheet and fanwork index give arete so it likely does!!
Eh, you don't have to be a great genius to contribute. Inspiration strikes in its own time.
So, I have a bit more writing here. I said I was going to do a write up of another magic system I have long since conceptualized but never really taken down, but I kind of got sidetracked into writing a sort of pseudo-historical document/story/myth about the origins of it from a certain perspective instead. Any and all feedback would be much welcomed, indeed please leave some if you have the time.
Shaping is a rare and powerful art the dreams of which have existed since man first looked at the world and wondered how it worked. First man attributed to the gods the phenomenon in nature which he did not and indeed could not yet understand. In some realities he was even right. That however is less consequential to shaping than mankind's continuing drive to discover and expand his knowledge and to make known the unknown. Eventually man used his intelligence to achieve some degree of mastery over the forces of the world through the systems of knowledge and power called science or magic. The creation, or discovery of shaping lies in this drive to discover, learn, and elucidate.
While the roots of shaping are in people's eternal efforts to understand and categorize the universe, the specific origin of shaping as an art lies in several similar individuals across many, many, many, disparate realities. The most common of the stories told of shaping's origins is that of the alchemist who thought that the working of things lay in their shapes. He saw this in his study and work with alchemy. He observed the way fire transformed stone and ore, metal emerging from rock like a butterfly from its chrysalis. He observed the effect of various liquids acidic, basic, and neutral upon a dizzying variety of substances. He observed that with the transformation of shape in one way or another came a transformation of means, of the properties of objects and phenomenon. The alchemist spent the entirety of his life chasing this thought even as he grew old and decrepit, even as he passed down his knowledge to his three apprentices. It is said, in some versions of the tale, that it was only on his death bed that the alchemist truly the shape he had sought since he was young. This is a farcically dramatic sentiment and most certainly erroneous. He had at the least a year with the shape of transformation that he had finally learned and took extensive notes on the subject on top of all the research he had previously done. Perhaps the alchemist had never managed to make an active use of the shape till just before his death. Perhaps he never made active usage of the shape, however, he had certainly learnt it, and described as much in his notes to the best of his abilities. Such a medium is notoriously inept for passing down knowledge of shaping.
Following in his footsteps his three apprentices attempted to continue his research. The first of his disciples looked at the whole of what was written through the lens of his teacher's art and indeed became a very fine alchemist. A most extraordinary one indeed, if the records are to be believed he committed a number of feats that others have found unreplicable. Everything from the elixir of immortality, to the crafting of the philosopher's star (an item far superior to the original stone and much relied upon today for a number of materials and effects that can be sourced from nothing else). It is thought among shapers that while the first apprentice perhaps never took to the true art of shaping he, through the use of his teacher's notes, elevated his skill in alchemy to the level of natural shaping (the unconscious perfection of a process until the demonstration of it accords with a shape to the point it is expressed and its associated phenomenon summon even without direct intent on the part of the worker). Skill risen above the domain of skill to become one with law, that is what it is held among shapers that the first apprentice of the alchemist achieved, and he is held in much respect by them for it even if such does not hold the same place in their history as one who worked the craft in full knowing.
The second apprentice of the alchemist is held by many as the first true recorded example of a shaper. He read his master's notes and saw in them a question and search apart from alchemy. He saw poetry of a kind among his teacher's descriptions of the shape of transformation and sought to further his study of the chaos of words he saw on page after page. So profound was the transformation is wrought upon him and the last disciple of the alchemist that it is held by some that the alchemist's notes may have truly held the shape of transformation as a shaping that transformed the reader. This aside, driven and guided by the notes of his predecessor the second apprentice threw himself into the study of shape even as he kept living as an alchemist. Unlike his predecessor he did not confine himself to the study of alchemy in the pursuit of shape and transformation. He sought it in nature, in people, and in the written word, and at last he had reached what his teacher before him had sought, though perhaps not quite the same transformation his teacher had found. He did so far more swiftly than his teacher having learned the shape by the end of his middle age. From there he continued his studies into the learning and usage of shapes accomplishing any number of miraculously impossible and implausible feat through the usage of shaping. Eventually he left his knowledge, notes, and records to his own disciples, which is how we know anything about the alchemist at all.
The last of the students of the alchemist gave up alchemy after reading the transformative notes. This was a great shock to his fellows as of the three, while he may not have been the most diligent nor the cleverest, he was the one that loved alchemy and their teacher the most. Not only did the last apprentice of the alchemist give up alchemy, but he also burnt his teachers notes. It is written that he said all he saw in them were the imprecise shadow of how to properly categorize the world. Indeed, the last apprentice of the alchemist became of those individuals that were at the forefront of the scientific revolutions in our worlds history. He for the rest of his life pushed not just for the advancement of our knowledge of the world, but for the proper categorization and explanation of it for the benefit of those who have not the fortune to have been taught as he had been taught. For this the people of our world shall forever thank him, though his story is no longer directly relevant to our subject.
Shaping, a guide to the uninitiated
Shaping is a rare and powerful art the dreams of which have existed since man first looked at the world and wondered how it worked. First man attributed to the gods the phenomenon in nature which he did not and indeed could not yet understand. In some realities he was even right. That however is less consequential to shaping than mankind's continuing drive to discover and expand his knowledge and to make known the unknown. Eventually man used his intelligence to achieve some degree of mastery over the forces of the world through the systems of knowledge and power called science or magic. The creation, or discovery of shaping lies in this drive to discover, learn, and elucidate.
While the roots of shaping are in people's eternal efforts to understand and categorize the universe, the specific origin of shaping as an art lies in several similar individuals across many, many, many, disparate realities. The most common of the stories told of shaping's origins is that of the alchemist who thought that the working of things lay in their shapes. He saw this in his study and work with alchemy. He observed the way fire transformed stone and ore, metal emerging from rock like a butterfly from its chrysalis. He observed the effect of various liquids acidic, basic, and neutral upon a dizzying variety of substances. He observed that with the transformation of shape in one way or another came a transformation of means, of the properties of objects and phenomenon. The alchemist spent the entirety of his life chasing this thought even as he grew old and decrepit, even as he passed down his knowledge to his three apprentices. It is said, in some versions of the tale, that it was only on his death bed that the alchemist truly the shape he had sought since he was young. This is a farcically dramatic sentiment and most certainly erroneous. He had at the least a year with the shape of transformation that he had finally learned and took extensive notes on the subject on top of all the research he had previously done. Perhaps the alchemist had never managed to make an active use of the shape till just before his death. Perhaps he never made active usage of the shape, however, he had certainly learnt it, and described as much in his notes to the best of his abilities. Such a medium is notoriously inept for passing down knowledge of shaping.
Following in his footsteps his three apprentices attempted to continue his research. The first of his disciples looked at the whole of what was written through the lens of his teacher's art and indeed became a very fine alchemist. A most extraordinary one indeed, if the records are to be believed he committed a number of feats that others have found unreplicable. Everything from the elixir of immortality, to the crafting of the philosopher's star (an item far superior to the original stone and much relied upon today for a number of materials and effects that can be sourced from nothing else). It is thought among shapers that while the first apprentice perhaps never took to the true art of shaping he, through the use of his teacher's notes, elevated his skill in alchemy to the level of natural shaping (the unconscious perfection of a process until the demonstration of it accords with a shape to the point it is expressed and its associated phenomenon summon even without direct intent on the part of the worker). Skill risen above the domain of skill to become one with law, that is what it is held among shapers that the first apprentice of the alchemist achieved, and he is held in much respect by them for it even if such does not hold the same place in their history as one who worked the craft in full knowing.
The second apprentice of the alchemist is held by many as the first true recorded example of a shaper. He read his master's notes and saw in them a question and search apart from alchemy. He saw poetry of a kind among his teacher's descriptions of the shape of transformation and sought to further his study of the chaos of words he saw on page after page. So profound was the transformation is wrought upon him and the last disciple of the alchemist that it is held by some that the alchemist's notes may have truly held the shape of transformation as a shaping that transformed the reader. This aside, driven and guided by the notes of his predecessor the second apprentice threw himself into the study of shape even as he kept living as an alchemist. Unlike his predecessor he did not confine himself to the study of alchemy in the pursuit of shape and transformation. He sought it in nature, in people, and in the written word, and at last he had reached what his teacher before him had sought, though perhaps not quite the same transformation his teacher had found. He did so far more swiftly than his teacher having learned the shape by the end of his middle age. From there he continued his studies into the learning and usage of shapes accomplishing any number of miraculously impossible and implausible feat through the usage of shaping. Eventually he left his knowledge, notes, and records to his own disciples, which is how we know anything about the alchemist at all.
The last of the students of the alchemist gave up alchemy after reading the transformative notes. This was a great shock to his fellows as of the three, while he may not have been the most diligent nor the cleverest, he was the one that loved alchemy and their teacher the most. Not only did the last apprentice of the alchemist give up alchemy, but he also burnt his teachers notes. It is written that he said all he saw in them were the imprecise shadow of how to properly categorize the world. Indeed, the last apprentice of the alchemist became of those individuals that were at the forefront of the scientific revolutions in our worlds history. He for the rest of his life pushed not just for the advancement of our knowledge of the world, but for the proper categorization and explanation of it for the benefit of those who have not the fortune to have been taught as he had been taught. For this the people of our world shall forever thank him, though his story is no longer directly relevant to our subject.