Remove ads

A Simple Transaction I

Reader mode
Byzantine said:
I mean, we get a weaker version of it by having her with us anyway, Garlak. It's more impressive for the 30% agi and it being entirely innate, so not at risk of dying on us, than it is for anything else.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, yes. It's impressive for permanently adding stealth to our bag of tricks. Not just for the temple, but also for the Human Sphere. Also, Shadowcord is a mercenary, so we wouldn't have access to her forever anyways. This way, we get to keep the power forever.

[X] +1 pick below
[X] Evening Sky: Shadowlord

Guys, c'mon. This isn't just a matter of stats, but of adding a new dimension or angle of approach here; namely, being able to stealth, spy, and hide. Assassination and theft both, too.

We're already really high on stats (in fact I think Rihaku said that, comparatively, our Rank is kind of lagging behind our killy abilities by now) so... I mean, more stats is always good, but still!
 
vali said:
Looks like this gives 3 might, 2 charisma, and 11(!) protection. A pretty solid pick.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It'd give effectively 1.8 Charisma and 8.1 Protection with the Edeldross buff up.

vali said:
If I'm reading this right, this upgrades the stat boost from 20% to 50% for boss fights, and 20% to 30% for general purpses
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

20 to 45% for brief periods, and 20 to 30% normally, yeah. It's quite good, though a pretty unfocused buff. You guys may want to consider something more specialized for your mission! Vigor Incarnate gives lots of +Cha for the social angle, whereas Shadowlord allows you to attempt the Stealth angle.

Thomasfoolery said:
Shadowlord doesn't need to waste time trying to be trusted with the keys of the kingdom though, it can sneak in instead.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yup!
 
Garlak said:
We're already really high on stats (in fact I think Rihaku said that, comparatively, our Rank is kind of lagging behind our killy abilities by now) so... I mean, more stats is always good, but still!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I do wonder if the stealth/assassination aspects of shadowlord might be the kind of lateral capability that Rank gain isn't perfectly tuned to account for, making future farming of such easier.
 
We do already have 2 Protection form Evening Sky, so we'd actually start with 9 Stealth here; and of course boosts the best combat stat in a way which stacks with Edeldross. But it is 5 more Arete, and we are supposed to be saving. It also takes more time; which is really annoying.

Rihaku said:
You're asking if the spar qualified for Preeminence?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah? Is the answer obvious and I'm not seeing it?
Byzantine said:
That's a bit less useful with Vigor Incarnate being offered, though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sharkey_smt said:
Vigor Incarnate takes care of our Protection issue and with how the thread has been going I doubt people will vote for upgrading Evening Sky to get +Protection.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
yeah lets just keep ignoring the mantle thats surely what the people wanted
 
[X] Edeldross Adept
[X] +1 pick below

Ok, this is an appropriate level of investment to boost Surgecraft on speck. The bonus to Grace creation is wonderful, and unique, but it's the improvement to the reliability of the magic that sold me on this.

One of the main things I disliked about Edeldross was the temporary nature of the bonuses on offer, temporary Graces, intermittent buffs, this helps stabilize the element, while also boosting it's long term payoff, on the cheap to.

Shadowlord is incredible, but expensive, and while it's great value for a stealth build, that's not what we have, yet, and I'm not sure it's worth the investment at this point, time burns after all.
 
Last edited:
Don't forget that Vigor Incarnate may potentially, or in conjunction with other options, unlock Blood Advancements of even greater power... while Edeldross adept is superb, its power is unfocused, not leaning particularly well towards any strategy except direct combat.

Vigor Incarnate gives a great combat boost (+3 Might, +8.1 Protection) and more +CHA than Edeldross Adept, whereas Shadowlord gives permanent +30% AGI and a lower-risk infiltration scheme! When pursuing dangerous missions, it's important to specialize and direct all your resources in a relevant direction. If you want to infiltrate properly, you should decide on a strategy and pick the corresponding Advancement!
 
[X] Evening Sky: Shadowlord
[X] +1 pick below

Picking up Shadowlord not for the stealth but for the thief. Remember that in time we may develop advancements within the broad themes of an artifact and these one unlock stealing. Accretion provides conceptual powers and I think this might allow us to eventually steal things like luck maybe even give rerolls. Can I get a confirmation here Rihaku?
 
Rihaku said:
"Of course!" Gisena clasped her hands meekly. "I'm just an innocent maiden, after all..."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How dubious.

Rihaku said:
Gisena pushed Letrizia in, then daintily slid in herself, carefully gathering her hair to twist into a water-resistant bun. Letrizia surfaced angrily, sputtering, and lashed out with a wave of water and Pressure that Gisena effortlessly dodged. Pouting, Letrizia sank beneath the surface, blowing bubbles at the two of them.

"Stupid nullification aura, let my Pressure through..."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Interesting that Gisena's null field just straight up cancels out Zeas pressure. Does this apply to rank in general or just Zea's use of it through her element?

Rihaku said:
He grunted. "Is all your clothing the same color as your hair?"

"Pretty much!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I see Microwave's drawings of Gisena's clothing have been accurate!

Rihaku said:
"I'm proud of you."


She preened. "Well, i-it's not that big a deal. T-this is just kids' stuff compared to what I'll ultimately be able to achieve."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Zea is happy to have earned dad's praise.

Rihaku said:
"As I thought. The energy isn't being nullified - that is to say, the power of Nullity isn't rendering this Element mundane. Instead, they're actually cancelling each other out! I think this contains the parts of findross that uplift and restore, elevating the mundane to the supernal. In a sense, it can be considered the opposite of my own power!"

She scooted happily over to him. "It's just as I said earlier. We're a perfect pair!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Interesting, can we do some kind of Gattai and combine them to form actual findross or something? Could be an avenue for buffing Gisena!

Rihaku said:
She leaned back, raising one pale, slender foot out of the water. "Perhaps you can give me a massage instead?"


"You slacked off the whole day, why do you need a massage?"

She gently kicked water at him, which the Evening Sky obligingly deflected. "Why not? It's a continuance of my relaxation!"

"Fine. Come here."

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Revenge of the foot fetish, massage strikes back!


[X] +1 pick below
[X] Edeldross Adept

Shadowlord is interesting but I prefer Adept for easier access to pseudo graces in the future.
 
BrainInAJar said:
yeah lets just keep ignoring the mantle thats surely what the people wanted
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I voted for InkSky but Edeldross won. The salt has subsided a bit.
Now our +Protection has -30% malus due to Uttermost and if we try to raise it to somewhat good level we will need 3 picks and 9 Arete. This will provide +3.5 Protection and passively increase magic defense.
On the other hand if we take Vigor and Magic defeating stance we will get +8.1 protection and magic defense(not to mention 2 picks) for 9 Arete as well. At the moment the numbers and benefits are in favor of the second approach. Believe me I want Evening Sky upgrades but I cannot honestly vote for them when there are picks that provide better protection benefits.
 
[X] +1 pick below
[X] Evening Sky: Shadowlord

Ah, screw it. It's the strongest pick here, as is to be expected from a 2-pick 7-arete option, but that strength is also applied into unlocking new options for us and generally fitting our current plans perfectly.

It also incentivizes further investment into the Evening Sky - Pearlescence isn't "just" scaling protection with our experience, its also scaling stealth!

And combatwise, we get a ton more value out of Agility than any other stat (except Willpower, obviously) - with Cut Through and the power of Ruin our sword is already absurdly deadly, we just need to actually land those hits.
 
Duquette7 said:
Shadowlord is incredible, but expensive, and while it's great value for a stealth build, that's not what we have, yet, and I'm not sure it's worth the investment at this point, time burns after all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, it can basically convert you into a Stealth build for most cases, given Hunger's high AGI. Stealth is also inherently safer than social infiltration, which can trigger Tyrant procs even if Hunger is being careful. Of course, not every Tyrant proc is severe enough to sabatoge negotiations, but it's nice not to have to worry about it.

SpectatingRaven said:
Picking up Shadowlord not for the stealth but for the thief. Remember that in time we may develop advancements within the broad themes of an artifact and these one unlock stealing. Accretion provides conceptual powers and I think this might allow us to eventually steal things like luck maybe even give rerolls. Can I get a confirmation here Rihaku?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hunger can essentially do almost anything given enough time and advancement!
 
Thomasfoolery said:
The boost is +10%/reliability and bursts of +25% over the baseline. Not a straight increase of 30%.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The thing is, our stats are so high that +10% is still roughly +3 Might, +3 Agility, +0.7 Charisma, +0.7 Wits, ect. +10% to everything means a lot to us. +25% for brief periods is even worse.

That's not even getting into the other benefits of Edeldross Adept, such as better control (meaning we can likely have Gisena spray Nullity on us and protect ourselves with Edeldross consistently), the pseudo-grace development bonus, ect.

BrainInAJar said:
Shadowlord does give increased utility to the +Protection advancements of the Evening Sky now that they have been deprecated by Uttermost, which people have been complaining about. And unlocking new stats also means unlocking improvements for them in the future, as well. But since we will have Shadowcord with us to cover this anyway, I'm kind of eh on it? Don't know what to vote for here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Notably, Edeldross Adept gets us +30% to All stats near constantly, cancelling out the penalty from Uttermost and making Opalescence line better again. It's not as great for Evening Sky as Shadowlord, but Shadowlord costs 5 more Arete and a Apocryphal free day when we're running out of Apocryphal free days and about to go into a dangerous mission.

Rihaku said:
20 to 45% for brief periods, and 20 to 30% normally, yeah. It's quite good, though a pretty unfocused buff. You guys may want to consider something more specialized for your mission! Vigor Incarnate gives lots of +Cha for the social angle, whereas Shadowlord allows you to attempt the Stealth angle.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Edeldross Adept grants only slightly less Charisma then Vigor Incarnate+(Normal Edeldross 20% buff), and comparable Charisma when under that special 45% buff. It's better for social angle then Vigor Incarnate under nearly every scenario I can imagine. Unless I'm missing something?

Shadowlord does unlock stealth, which no other option does. It pays for that advantage with other downsides.
 
Last edited:
Rihaku said:
If you want to infiltrate properly, you should decide on a strategy and pick the corresponding Advancement!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Part of the problem is that only half of the thread wanted to infiltrate, I won't oppose it, but I'd rather prepare for the eventuality of our failure to infiltrate, I'm fine with hiring the shadow Surgecrafter to help us stealth in, but I'd rather spend the arete buffing our magic on the cheap, or saving for our panic buy Stance.
 
ImperatorV said:
Notably, Edeldross Adept gets us +30% to All stats near constantly, cancelling out the penalty from Uttermost and making Opalescence line better again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Uh, no. If everything is boosted, then when comparing choices, nothing is - the difference in value between +Protection options and, say, +Agility or +Constitution options to avoid harm remains identical.
 
Duquette7 said:
Part of the problem is that only half of the thread wanted to infiltrate, I won't oppose it, but I'd rather prepare for the eventuality of our failure to infiltrate, I'm fine with hiring the shadow Surgecrafter to help us stealth in, but I'd rather spend the arete buffing our magic on the cheap, or saving for our panic buy Stance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I should note that we should have at least 14 arete, so we probably can still panic buy a stance even if Shadowlord wins. It will completely bottom out the reserves, though.
 
Rihaku said:
Don't forget that Vigor Incarnate may potentially, or in conjunction with other options, unlock Blood Advancements of even greater power... while Edeldross adept is superb, its power is unfocused, not leaning particularly well towards any strategy except direct combat.

Vigor Incarnate gives a great combat boost (+3 Might, +8.1 Protection) and more +CHA than Edeldross Adept, whereas Shadowlord gives permanent +30% AGI and a lower-risk infiltration scheme! When pursuing dangerous missions, it's important to specialize and direct all your resources in a relevant direction. If you want to infiltrate properly, you should decide on a strategy and pick the corresponding Advancement!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Something else about Vigor Incarnate to consider, is it's a Blood Advancement, and we get offered those every vote. Edeldross Adept may be unique to this vote, brought on by the training session.

Imagine what we could do with Edeldross Adept and Vigor Incarnate! That +8.1 Protection would be multiplied by 30% to 45%, and Charisma would be multiplied as well, further increasing Protection!

If you state that Edeldross Adept will appear in future votes I will withdraw this point. It's 2 Pick 2 Arete after all, that's not super hard to get at a later point.
 
Yeah it might only be a 10% on the face of it but the added control means we benefit from the full bonus all the time instead of sporadically which is good for social as well as combat. It should also vastly reduce the chances of accidentally buffing enemies while fighting. Plus it's really cheap for how good it is. It also gives an emergency extra 15% to draw upon momentarily when we need it.
 
Last edited:
I think people that complain about social combat in infiltration plan should choose shadow lord thought.

Theft and stealth maybe better with our Tyrant curse.
 
[X] Vigor Incarnate
[X] +1 pick below

Gotta keep S A V I N G but I don't think a non-Arete option will win this round. With that in mind, this both makes us significantly more Charismatic and turns that Charisma into a solid resistance against esoteric effects in case things get hairy.

Conjured Blade said:
I'm not sure I get how the Char sheet stuff is representing our stats given the pluses and parentheses anymore, is anybody willing to explain?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The first number is our baseline, the second number is that plus our Blood enhancements and the third number is the Cut Through boost. I'm thinking I should just fold the last one into baseline stats.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top