A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- Original
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Tally incoming:
- Location
- Italy
[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath
[X] Control
[X] Wreath [Assuming Surgecraft is Taken] - Compounding surgecraft benefits, +Int/Wis/Cha, buffing teammates' magic systems
Edit: since Wreath seems to be losing more and more ground, I will consider changing my vote from Control to Magnitude. Focusing on finesse seems less appealing to me without the multiplicative boost which would have allowed our magic's potency not to lag far behind either.
[X] Control
[X] Wreath [Assuming Surgecraft is Taken] - Compounding surgecraft benefits, +Int/Wis/Cha, buffing teammates' magic systems
Edit: since Wreath seems to be losing more and more ground, I will consider changing my vote from Control to Magnitude. Focusing on finesse seems less appealing to me without the multiplicative boost which would have allowed our magic's potency not to lag far behind either.
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- Location
- a place
Not everything is about biggatons, keep in mind. We know their were people capable of using Findross to even cancel stuff like time stops. The Maiden had functionally infinite Findross and who knows what sort of perfection themed conceptual effects, and thats not even getting into the possibility of creating another potentially worlds spanning society of Sorceresses, this time with the most notable buffed by Wreath for triple advancement.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
There's more to this vote in the previous update if you feel like including that.
[X] Ennobling Option [Ennobling] - The power to raise up armies of the mighty and turn the houses of the Temple civ against one another, but no immediate buffs for yourself.
I would be very interested in seeing how this vote leads Hunger to explore more indirect options in dealing with the Temple and his future enemies. The fight scenes are all fantastic but it seems like the constant combat is getting a bit repetitive.
I would be very interested in seeing how this vote leads Hunger to explore more indirect options in dealing with the Temple and his future enemies. The fight scenes are all fantastic but it seems like the constant combat is getting a bit repetitive.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean, if we're doing that stuff, we could just be using our sword which is all around better on both the attack and the defense. The only time blasts and barriers would be helpful is if we're protecting significant numbers of other people or don't want to kill our opponent, neither of which apply here. Meanwhile, a more precise +All Stats would be helpful with the stuff we're already using and a Pseudo-Grace would be that and also less tiring to make use of.
I'm sure there's a ton of helpful utility effects in Sorcery but Gisena already has Incident Nullification for those. My main issue is the idea that Philosopher's Wreath and other such options would help Gisena remain combat relevant in the ultra-longterm when even turning her into the Maiden might not be able to manage that.
First, none of the cool utility effects of the Maiden would be helpful in combat if she literally can't even perceive the combatants in question here or have the conceptual potency to overcome any Rank difference. Second, Philosopher's Wreath is useless for mass buffing since it requires extensive dialogue with the person seeking to be buffed. If you want the latter, you should pick Ennobling. That actually does more to keep Gisena relevant in the immediate term too, since +++All Stats is going to help her keep up than something that requires a solid time investment to make real usage of.
Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
Just so you know, your newest vote overwrites your previous post. If you still want to be counted for the build vote, make sure you copy over your previous decision!
If you're still deciding, I strongly suggest you vote for [] Magnitude as the part of training that Hunger focuses on. Here are some arguments about each option!
Magnitude - Best Practice Boost (of Three)
- Makes it more likely for Edeldross to be used in combat
- Hunger fights alone or close-to Gisena
- Risk of buffing enemies is small
- Hunger fights alone or close-to Gisena
- Improves ability to use Edeldross to withstand Nullity
- Edeldross "ablates away" when hit by Nullity
- Increasing output of Edeldross increases amount of Nullity Gisena can use
- +All Stats is great
- LUCK is a stat!
- WILL also applies to physical benefits
- Strengthens damage nullifying blasts which can be "spammed" and makes barriers stronger
- Compare with Pure Edeldross Surge for +Stats which is specified to be "considerably more draining to use"
- Magnitude improves element of casting that will be used most often in combat
- Does not lead to Tired/Exhausted condition after every fight
- Most impressive feature is "complex applications" as a signpost to findross research/understanding
- Findross generation & research is a long term project
- This feature is unlikely to pay off before the temple.
- Precise buffs and better placement of effects is most important if we have allies fighting on the front line
- So far the Thread has not been willing to vote for martial allies.
- Our prospective recruits are currently all teenagers
- Much less effective purchase if we only recruit support characters (or no characters)
- So far the Thread has not been willing to vote for martial allies.
- Pure Edeldross Surge is how we would apply buffs more precisely
- This tactic is "considerably more draining to use"
- Possibility of being Tired/Exhausted after every fight
- Risks no benefit for Hunger from day of training
- Uses entire day of Apochryphal mitigation
- Potent physical benefit comes at the cost of boost to rare stats
- Opportunity cost is not choosing "Magnitude"
- Additional boost to STR/CON/AGI comes at the expense of losing Magnitude's additional boost to INT, WITS, WIS, CHA, APP, MAN, PROT, LUCK, WILL*
- Magnitude's boost to WILL also improves physical stats so taking Experimentation loses out on the physical buff twice over
- Location
- Italy
As others are saying, if you don't want your vote to be wasted this round you'd better remember to copy it alongside the one we're doing for the poll!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We're a Progression Cursebearer; of course keeping someone else relevant in the ultra-longterm will require continued investment.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Anyway though, more to the point, killing a planet-destroying foe does not require the ability to destroy planets and I think the full gamut of Graces would have several relevant capabilities towards that.
- Location
- a place
Considering the Maiden's host of Graces including potent conceptual ones we know exist and potential to boost Sublime with infinite Findross, I don't think that's particularly likely. If Rank differences couldn't be overcome with power from other magic systems, Hunger would be a lot weaker then he is. Which isn't even to say the Hidden Masters even use Astral Rank, and is also forgetting we literally have someone who is now focused on studying astral rank that could help boost Gisena's as much as ours.
When I said biggatons aren't everything, I wasn't just talking utility. A Solar's perfect attack is almost certainly less powerful then a death star in terms of pure kinetic force, but is more relevant in far more tiers of combat in the Rihakuverse.
As for the second point, I wasn't suggesting we use the Wreath for mass buffing. I was suggesting it would help us make the best mages of a existing society of mages we rule more potent, while also pointing out potential Gisena or Edeldross advancements down the line could in fact result in mass buffing via findross alone. I do agree Ennoblement is amazing for that task too, and when not competing against the wreath, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
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Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
Right. To actually get the 2 picks in the build-vote you'd have to do something like this
[ ] Exalted Spirit - 2 Arete.
[ ] Sublime Transfusion - 2 Arete.
[ ] Heal Versch
The most recent threadmark is just a popularity survey, not an actual build vote.
(I put magnitude in as a joke not a real attempt to tell you what to do)
For pure preference? Well, I'd like Philosopher's Wreath or Ennobling as a secondary choice. Because both seem like cool options to me! Wreath lets us play around with magic at an opportune time (i.e. we're about to do a day of training) and would boost our companions magic and magic research efforts. And Ennobling sounds cool too, because it could empower and boost people; could boost civilizations or cities! And so the idea of using it to provide alternative sources of power to the False Moon people, or using it in negotiations in the Human Sphere or to boost your own organizations or nations, also sounds good.
Wreath is still my first pick, but Ennobling is a strong second. They both look like fun and cool options, both feel like they open up opportunities in some way and they play around with the supernatural. Getting just Vigor though? That seems... well, kind of boring to me and I was surprised to see it take off in votes. Felt more like a protest vote, a "Oh hell no, anything but Arete-spending! Quick, pick anything else!" vote, when I saw it and which took off because it was the first alternative.
[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath
[X] Control - Improves the tightness and consistency with which he can direct Edeldross in all forms, allowing for more precise buffs on both self and allies, as well as better placement of effects. May unlock more complex applications of Edeldross.
[X] Wreath [Assuming Surgecraft is Taken] - Compounding surgecraft benefits, +Int/Wis/Cha, buffing teammates' magic systems
[X] Ennobling Option [Ennobling] - The power to raise up armies of the mighty and turn the houses of the Temple civ against one another, but no immediate buffs for yourself.
- Location
- Pindorama
[X] Vigor Itself
[X] Vigor Itself x2
[X] Magnitude
[X] SAVE [Vigor Itself x2] - Some combat, some diplomatic proficiency
I don't think saving for the Ring is greedy at all; especially since we could still buy Stances should an emergency arise. It's not like we'd bet everything, far from it. The Ring will do literally everything the Wreath can but better once we get it; and I'm not tempted by the fact we will train Surgecraft right now. We will have much more opportunities for that in the future, and they will likely benefit from ++Progression!
[X] Vigor Itself x2
[X] Magnitude
[X] SAVE [Vigor Itself x2] - Some combat, some diplomatic proficiency
I don't think saving for the Ring is greedy at all; especially since we could still buy Stances should an emergency arise. It's not like we'd bet everything, far from it. The Ring will do literally everything the Wreath can but better once we get it; and I'm not tempted by the fact we will train Surgecraft right now. We will have much more opportunities for that in the future, and they will likely benefit from ++Progression!
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I realized something recently about long term viability of our companions. It is entirely possible we will end up with the Ring of the False Moon to give to Gisena or Letrezia, granting them the benefits of compounding synergy.
Maiden Gisena with the Ring of the False Moon is a possibility.
Letrezia with meaningful Astral Rank, Verschlengorge, the Ring of the False Moon, and some third Artfifact to round out her Panopoly is also a possibility.
Maiden Gisena with the Ring of the False Moon is a possibility.
Letrezia with meaningful Astral Rank, Verschlengorge, the Ring of the False Moon, and some third Artfifact to round out her Panopoly is also a possibility.
Huh. Speaking of Letrizia's panoply, can we actually teach her Accretion? Her legend must be significant already if her tales about her adventures with Versch are anything to go by. And Verschlengorge is a pretty cheaty advantage in general when it comes to racking up fame.
- Location
- UK
Those all sound like reasonable objections, but I discarded them to express my true preferences.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Vigor Itself
[X] Vigor Itself x2
[X] SAVE [Vigor Itself x2]
[X] Vigor Itself x2
[X] SAVE [Vigor Itself x2]
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
For curious parties, I dug up the Word of Rihaku that giving the Ring to Gisena or Letrezia is possible.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
If giving the ring to Gisena or Letrezia is enough to give them the potential to be a threat to US? Then you combine that with Philosopher's Wreath, or Ennoblement, or Ruling Ring fueled boost X? The long term viability of associating with one of them goes up. WAY UP.
A Simple Transaction I Original
A quest about a simple transaction and the consequences that follow.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
If giving the ring to Gisena or Letrezia is enough to give them the potential to be a threat to US? Then you combine that with Philosopher's Wreath, or Ennoblement, or Ruling Ring fueled boost X? The long term viability of associating with one of them goes up. WAY UP.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Particularly if it doesn't clash with our Ring. We know there can only be one ruling ring, but subordinate ones exist in Tolkien so I'd assume the same is possible here. And the lunar ring would probably be happy to submit as the price for freeing it.