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A Simple Transaction I

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[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath
[X] Experimentation

Likely to give us more immediate power. I'm not comfortable in rushing the ring due to the Contest that will trigger, the more raw power we have when it happens, the better.

Also, this option is very synergetic. We can become an sorcerer, or develop a very powerful pseudo-grace.
 
Right, gonna throw in a vote.

[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath
[X] Control - Improves the tightness and consistency with which he can direct Edeldross in all forms, allowing for more precise buffs on both self and allies, as well as better placement of effects. May unlock more complex applications of Edeldross.

Going for Philosopher's Wreath for now. As for what Surgecraft thing to pick... I think I'll actually probably go with Control? I mean, it is the option that's about making sure to avoid the "be careful not to buff your enemy too" part of the "this can AoE buff everybody, so watch out!" Edeldross mechanic.

Getting a bigger +Rank bonus will do us no good if we buff our enemies just as much. Instead, let's make sure we only buff the people we want to buff.
 
[X] Vigor Itself
[X] Vigor Itself x2
[X] Magnitude

If we are to take PW (which I wouldn't be too mad at), I'd definitely prefer to use it on Soul Evocations.

Raydom said:
huh, well fuck I didn't notice that philosiphers wreath was a rare pick.

What would you guys say are the chance that we would encounter that pick again later on in the quest?

I'm down for just picking it later but if it's like garden where we preety much have low chance of getting it again I might consider voting for it.

Also, is blood enoblement a rare pick as well and how likely would we encounter it?

Sort of new to Rihaku's quest still so not sure of the chances for these picks but i would love to have them.
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It's considered a high-tier advancement we would find in a city or a hunt (but now it looks like it appears predominantly in social?). I would say seeing it again is likely, but not soon.
 
The nice thing about Philosopher's Wreath is it's great for Not Dying by providing a huge boost to our current training session, resulting in massive gains. The stats from PW boosted Experimentation or Magnitude would be greater then those provided by double blood enhancements. But the PW build isn't all immediate power - no, it gives massive long term potential as well by vastly boosting our Edeldross growth rate and the variety and power of effects we can access! It's effectively both a power and potential pick, but is really strong in both of those - the effects of synergistic Arete expenditure in action!

The primary downside is delaying a second EFB for a time. However, we have one EFB already, and Ruling Ring, our second target, is on the greedy side... Perhaps it'd be better to invest in more power first! Once we have PW, the increased power and growth rate will allow us to more safely and easily save Arete for the next EFB equivalent.

Also, for those concerned about time, the increased power provided by PW boosted Surgecraft will allow us to more safely brave the Middle and Inner Temple, saving Apocryphal-free time! We've already invested a day in Stay and Train, let's make that day be 6x more effective to make the most of the time invested!
 
huh, you know the thought of Rihaku giving us diplo options with the moon temple residents sound actually... quite good!!!

If we actually free the ring from suffering we bassicly fuck these people over. That however can change if we bassicly give them an alternative, US.

What I mean is we obviously can enoble their blood and they can all follow us. We'll amass political power in the realm and have our own mages who follow us and help us when we go decide to conquer shit.

Basically the new Sauron except blood and...good?

Better then destroying their civilization and leaving them to crumble and die.

Edit: This bassicly can go no way wrong, we destroy their Civ, we as the tyrant offer them a choice, follow us or watch as their Civ dies and what option would they pick? we can obviously play the tyrant to them but thay have no choice as were the only ring wielder who can save their Civilization thus making Tyrants fall curse mitigated for their people. Great way to practice politics and how to handle the curse as well!!
 
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BrainInAJar said:
That's a lie. How many updates were Thousand Cuts, Ruinous Valor, even Fall of Night before we took them? We definitely will consider it in the future even if we don't take it here; it's too powerful not to. But I think the Arete is better spend on a more useful option for the Temple or saved for Ruling Ring. We just need to show some fiscal responsibility.
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Don't call me a liar.
Look at Sleep of the Just, Scent of Prey, or King of Thieves - some options simply stop being offered and can't be planned for to return
 
Raydom said:
huh, you know the thought of Rihaku giving us diplo options with the moon temple residents sound actually... quite good!!!

If we actually free the ring from suffering we bassicly fuck these people over. That however can change if we bassicly give them an alternative, US.

What I mean is we obviously can enoble their blood and they can all follow us. We'll amass political power in the realm and have our own mages who follow us and help us when we go decide to conquer shit.

Basically the new Sauron except blood and...good?

Better then destroying their civilization and leaving them to crumble and die.
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...huh. This is actually, pretty compelling. I suppose that'd be a way of handling both dilemmas at once, and attempt completing our Geas.

George said:
Don't call me a liar.
Look at Sleep of the Just, Scent of Prey, or King of Thieves - some options simply stop being offered and can't be planned for to return
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Fair! I would like to conserve Arete for Ring stuff instead. I feel like it's more cohesive and relevant to our overall build than PW, even if PW has greater long-term gains than the individual Blood picks.
 
I'm very much enjoying the idea of attempting diplomacy with the residents of the temple.

First, we introduce the buffed Gisena, to apply her incalculable interpersonal skills to the various issues.

Then, the buffed Armament, and threaten to level the entire temple unless they (or at least a portion of them) acquiesce to the Diplomat's gently stated suggestions.
 
7 Arete is an awfully large investment to make in something that doesn't grant immediate combat power when we're staring down the barrel of the Inner Temple. We should be saving up for an EFB or waiting for a second shot at The King Stands Alone/some other Sword Praxis effect. Mention of Ambition aside, Ennobling isn't one (a knighting ceremony as a Sword Praxis technique would be cool, though).

Augment + Transfusion is my long shot of choice here, getting Verschlengorge into the fray would mean no more splitting the party, and transfusing him might unlock a second shot at Bloodwraith. But time burns; saving and shoring up our basics isn't very exciting, I know, but it could well save our life and enable more glorious moments like Cutting Through later.
 
[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
[X] Control

Either supercharge our current magic or get a stronger but narrow skill set would have massive benefits.

Does wreath and rune King stack? As in additional progression bonus added to the int X 100% modifier.
 
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Rihaku said:
Rank 7 is somewhat marginal to do it in one stroke - Rank 8 would have a solid chance - but invasion of the premises and widespread destruction is on the menu for sure!
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Guys. Guys.

Are you worried about the Moon Temple? Potential Inner Residents got you spooked?

Look no further, we have a fucking Evangelion.

Just imagine the expressions on their faces - they know he's an R-type, they pull out their premier anti-swordmaster combatants, and then a fucking Galactic Empire mech busts in and wrecks their shit.

I think we're sleeping on this option.
 
If we get it at all, I'd rather not apply the Philosopher's Wreath bonus to Edeldross. I think getting a true Grace and then working our way to High Sorcery would do a lot more for our capabilities in general due to the interactions that I think that combination could open up. Taking a look at the interactions between Findross and Edeldross would also be pretty neat, especially when we could see what happens to someone who possesses both simultaneously.

George said:
Look at Sleep of the Just, Scent of Prey, or King of Thieves - some options simply stop being offered and can't be planned for to return
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Eh, we were explicitly warned that the last was unique and the second has shown up twice, as has Philosopher's Wreath. Rare? Yes, because most of our advancements come from combat. But it's not infeasible to obtain later the way Slice Fate or Gardener's Hallow might be since we're more aware of the unlock conditions and they aren't especially onerous.

Rihaku said:
Well, there are two parts to developing an Edeldross pattern that can replicate a Grace:

1) The theoretical research into the Grace itself
2) The actual manipulation of Edeldross into the required pattern

Hunger can focus on 2) while Gisena focuses on 1), and increasing the rate at which he improves 2) is valuable for a large number of applications.
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Hmm. Would giving Gisena +++INT and +++WIS accelerate the progress of her research? If so, that would also improve the efficacy of our training time while also doing at least a little bit to S A V E compared to the likely alternative. That it would make Gisena a substantially more effective negotiator across the board would also be very nice. If so, Ennobling + Experimentation would be a decent combination.
 
You do have over 10 Arete right now, and you're only 8 away (and 4 picks + rare enemy) from Ruling Ring, or 14 away from Once and Future / Pillars of Creation! That could be had in less than a week. Just imagine, +Rank from Temple enemies on top of Once and Future and some Augment Dominion: Blood picks...

Xalvitor said:
Likely to give us more immediate power. I'm not comfortable in rushing the ring due to the Contest that will trigger, the more raw power we have when it happens, the better.
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Mm. If you want immediate power, going for Sorcery over Surgecraft is the line, which you do intend to do. Are you not afraid of the potential anti-synergy or redundancy from taking Edeldross?

Garlak said:
Going for Philosopher's Wreath for now. As for what Surgecraft thing to pick... I think I'll actually probably go with Control? I mean, it is the option that's about making sure to avoid the "be careful not to buff your enemy too" part of the "this can AoE buff everybody, so watch out!" Edeldross mechanic.
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Control is severely underrated! A +20% All Stats buff that you can place on allies means Gisena's Sublime Attainment effectiveness will be even further improved! In fact, you could go Control + Ennobling for serious Gisena power...

Talace said:
If we are to take PW (which I wouldn't be too mad at), I'd definitely prefer to use it on Soul Evocations.
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You might not get the Imprisoner, however!

Raydom said:
huh, you know the thought of Rihaku giving us diplo options with the moon temple residents sound actually... quite good!!!
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I know, right?!

Raydom said:
Basically the new Sauron except blood and...good?
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The Lord of Gifts! The Fisher King! The Blood Tyrant! Your choice, Temple Residents!
 
Rihaku said:
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a lie... There certainly are rarer and more common Advancements. You haven't seen Linear Halo again, for example.
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But Philosopher's Wreath clearly isn't exclusive; so treating as a completely biding decision forever is misleading at best.
Conjured Blade said:
For the sake of getting some momentum going on Ennobling I'm invoking a marker, will you join or will you veto?
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Sure.
[X] Ennobling - 2 Arete (2 picks)

Hey, remember how our daughteru won't live long thanks to repeated exposure to Decimator's? Why not fix that immediately? Hell, not just Letrizia; this can serve as mitigation for Decimator in general and a nice complement to the times we might find ourselvs without Huntress targets.
Plus, we can't actually rely on bringing down the Temple through force of arms alone! It's a whole civilization! Offering your opponents an out is key if you don't want them fighting to the death, and considering we threaten their whole civilization we can expect some pretty desperate last stands. Why not cut this off at the pass and offer an enticing alternative instead?
Plus, Boosted stats for all our companions! It's quite the powerful option.
George said:
Look at Sleep of the Just, Scent of Prey, or King of Thieves - some options simply stop being offered and can't be planned for to return
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We had an opportunity to be offered Scent of Prey again; we just didn't take it. What we are offered is usually a combination of what type of enemy we defeated plus what would be relevant. We won't stop fighting mages any time soon. and getting a magic system will always possess relevancy. We have already been offered Wreath before, and likely will again if we don't pick it now.
 
runeblue360 said:
Eh, we were explicitly warned that the last was unique and the second has shown up twice, as has Philosopher's Wreath. Rare? Yes, because most of our advancements come from combat. But it's not infeasible to obtain later the way Slice Fate or Gardener's Hallow might be since we're more aware of the unlock conditions and they aren't especially onerous.
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if we aren't willing to take it here, we will also not be willing to carefully arrange it as an option; it's perfectly valid to say it's not worth getting, but don't try to pretend we will come back for it.
New picks come up constantly and more things will be left untaken than not by far.
 
[X] Ennobling
[X] Control

The way I see it it's better to focus on our new magic system with the aid of a mentally boosted Gisena to pump out pseudo graces.
 
Orm Embar said:
7 Arete is an awfully large investment to make in something that doesn't grant immediate combat power when we're staring down the barrel of the Inner Temple. We should be saving up for an EFB or waiting for a second shot at The King Stands Alone/some other Sword Praxis effect. Mention of Ambition aside, Ennobling isn't one (a knighting ceremony as a Sword Praxis technique would be cool, though).
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PW Surgrecraft provides a lot of immediate power! Stay and Train won because it provides more power then farming the encampment, and PW provides +500% advancement rate, sextupling our gains from this day of training! 1x Stay and Train was worth more then two picks with no Arete, imagine what 6x Stay and Train provides!
 
I edited my post to add my new thoughts but I think people may have skipped it over so i'll simply state it here for my argument for Blood enoblement

We can't mitigate our tyrants curse. Thats a fact because of uttermost. We however can play around it and have Hunger learn to play around it as well. Now how does this tie in with Enoblement you may be asking?

Well with the moon temple Civilization they rely on the ring to survive. This is a fact and we plan on pretty much destroying their foundation for their society's power and military. Imagine us having fuck all no electricity. That's how bad it gets for them except a bunch of people are outside waiting to fucking murder you.

Now we as a tryrant can show this wrecked Civ our powers of enoblement. That WE LORD HUNGER can replace the ring. Offer them power just like the ring which we destroyed. We can protect these people from the savages who sought to destroy them. Uplift them to greater hgihts. And what can they do? Nothing, because their power is gone and we a ring bearer offer them safety, power, and basically god. We gain experiece on how to deal with the curse which we basically haven't gotten any and they CAN'T SAY NO OR THEY WILL DIE

We are a tyrant and were basically destroying their Civilization. What better way to play the role then to basically conquer their Civ? Show our dominance, protect their way of life, provide them an extended life and all who dare to oppose are exiled and without our blessings. We ARE THE TYRANT. Lets finnaly play as one.

CHOOSE ENOBLEING FOLKS FOR TYRANT CONQUERER OF THE MOON CIV.
 
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